Foo - Customer Service. Pretty much gone.

I think i am aware of the reasons why customer service is becoming a distant memory. I understand the Walmartization of America and how we sacrificed our desire for customer service at the alter of Everyday Low Prices. But what i don't understand is why everyone drank the Kool aid and why we the consumers are so willing to accept it.

First of all, i must say that i am a service manager for a company and my job is to kiss people's asses pretty much all day every day whenever the time arises. We go above and beyond to accommodate our customers, in fact sometimes i think we go too far. I think a lot of the reason we do this is because my company is owned by an older gentleman who is probably doing it old school.

The thing that irks me is that I kiss butt with my customers all day long yet I don't go ANYWHERE and get the same treatment. I can give countless examples. A couple of weeks ago we traded cars. The salesman and staff of the dealership were nice enough but did absolutely nothing beyond bare minimum to get the deal done.

Then they got mad at me when i told them i wasn't going to finance through them. They told me that it was such a lean deal for them that i should at least finance through them so they could get the $200 kickback from the bank. That was just one thing. Then we ended up with only one key and they didn't give a crap at all. I also called the salesman on a couple other issues and he has promised to call me back and I haven't heard a word.

I can recite tons of other examples where people just don't give a crap and they don't follow through. It's no wonder everyone is buying everything online because you can do your own research and get it cheaper online. And besides you don't get any extra service with crap you buy locally because half of the sales reps haven't done the bare minimum like reading online to garner even the slightest bit of product knowledge.

It's scary how bad it has gotten in my relatively short 20 years of adulthood. How much worse can it get? It really makes me stop and think that most customers must be HUGE push overs because how else do these people stay in business? I end up raising hell everywhere i go, because i don't accept mediocrity or indifference.

Last car I bought I agreed to finance it through the dealer if they knocked some more off the price. Refinanced the loan through my credit union about a month later.

My belief, in 25 years of industry experience, is that customer service entities are not driven toward customer satisfaction.

They are driven towards managing the metrics that they mistakenly believe measure customer satisfaction.

For example, in a helpdesk scenario, what do you measure? What metrics are passed on to management? Do you measure how many calls are opened/closed? How many PR1 calls are closed in 24H (or your stated objective), or do you go back and survey the callers?

Is person motivated to solve the problem or to simply close the ticket?

I guess that I'm in complete agreement, but I believe it's been going on a while longer than you might suspect.

makes one wonder what happened first: the death of customer service ('cause it is dead), or customers turning into jerks (cell phone guy in the checkout line, for example).

i spent over ten years in retail. i was always polite and cheerful to my customers (hard to believe, i know).

but i had to get out - because the vast majority of them were complete asshats. i just burned out.

i'm so insanely glad i do all of two hours or so a week dealing with customers. it's so much better than when i was doing 60 - 80.

My belief, in 25 years of industry experience, is that customer service entities are not driven toward customer satisfaction.

They are driven towards managing the metrics that they mistakenly believe measure customer satisfaction.

For example, in a helpdesk scenario, what do you measure? What metrics are passed on to management? Do you measure how many calls are opened/closed? How many PR1 calls are closed in 24H (or your stated objective), or do you go back and survey the callers?

Is person motivated to solve the problem or to simply close the ticket?

I guess that I'm in complete agreement, but I believe it's been going on a while longer than you might suspect.

I think i am aware of the reasons why customer service is becoming a distant memory. I understand the Walmartization of America and how we sacrificed our desire for customer service at the alter of Everyday Low Prices. But what i don't understand is why everyone drank the Kool aid and why we the consumers are so willing to accept it.



Because Target treats you the same (actually worse than Wal-Mart)
Because Albertsons treated you like **** long before Wal-mart became known as "wal-martization"
Acutally because customer Service was long dead before Wal-Mart came around and became known as "wal-martization".

It has absolutely nothing to do with wal-mart and everything to do with Accountability. This country lost it's accountability in the late 60's and 70's and now we are living with a generation that has never heard of it.

Has absolutely nothing to do with Wal-Mart and everything to do with how the generations trained, taught and nurtured their children. It's a domino effect.

The only good thing is now those who want a scapegoat have it and so they blame it on "wal-mart" and everybody jumping on the bandwagon - because that's the easy way out and its what everybody tells you to blame iton.

It depends on how much each specific customer can affect the bottom line.

Big car dealer or discount store? No one cares.

Smaller non-franchised or client/project-based business? Word of mouth spreads fast, one bad review can be disastrous.

It depends on how much each specific customer can affect the bottom line.

Big car dealer or discount store? No one cares.

Smaller non-franchised or client/project-based business? Word of mouth spreads fast, one bad review can be disastrous.

Good point. Not accidentally when i bought the prior car it was from a small dealer, he followed up on everything he said he would do. Size does seem to matter. I think the farther you get away from the ultimate guy who owns the company being involved on sight the farther you get away from customer service.

I've found bike companies I've dealt with are about as customer service oriented as a kick in the nuts from a school bully.

But gun and knife companies in the US (not distributors, jut the actual manufacturers), aside from the God awful CAI, have been nothing but helpful.

Good point. Not accidentally when i bought the prior car it was from a small dealer, he followed up on everything he said he would do. Size does seem to matter. I think the farther you get away from the ultimate guy who owns the company being involved on sight the farther you get away from customer service.

All going hand in hand with how people are raised/trained/taught throughout their life. Most jobs in this world do not reward their employees and have not for many years. Going in hand with a generation that was never taught about work, pride and that there should be both in both and you come out with a world filled with people who neither care nor have any motivation to care.

I got a complaint card, from my resort bike rental days, that the customer service was too good to be true and demanded a refund.

Conversation at the local Wal-Mart:

Brad: "Can I help you sir?"
Me: "Yes, I'm looking for a dog harness."
Brad: "Those are over here, come on."
Manager: "BRAD! LEAVE THE CUSTOMERS ALONE AND GET BACK TO WORK!"

Yeah, service is dead as it was once known. Salesmen seem to be a little more then hustlers now, more interested in a quick big sale then building a lasting relationship with a customer. I tried to by a TV at Best Buy, but they insisted I spend another $500 to have it installed! No way was I going to fall for that scam. I can attached the enclosed TV stand, set it on the TV stand that we've had since forever, screw in the cable TV box, then plug in the DVD player/VCR. This guy insisted I needed professional installation to completely enjoy their TV. I told them go screw themselves and went to Aaron's and got a better TV, no money down (I had to pay for the whole thing up front at Best Buy, which wasn't a problem that day) and made three payments that totaled less then the set alone at Best Buy, and was never pressured into a BS installation. The TV works fine with myself installing it.

I then went back and bought a computer from them. Same 90 day terms.

Because Target treats you the same (actually worse than Wal-Mart)
Because Albertsons treated you like **** long before Wal-mart became known as "wal-martization"
Acutally because customer Service was long dead before Wal-Mart came around and became known as "wal-martization".

It has absolutely nothing to do with wal-mart and everything to do with Accountability. This country lost it's accountability in the late 60's and 70's and now we are living with a generation that has never heard of it.

Has absolutely nothing to do with Wal-Mart and everything to do with how the generations trained, taught and nurtured their children. It's a domino effect.

The only good thing is now those who want a scapegoat have it and so they blame it on "wal-mart" and everybody jumping on the bandwagon - because that's the easy way out and its what everybody tells you to blame iton.

sez the guy who buys all his groceries from Wal-Mart...

;)

sez the guy who buys all his groceries from Wal-Mart...

;)
Once again - you all are told to "hate" wal-mart and so you blame every problem on Wal-Mart. No Wal-Mart is not the problem. This was a problem long before Wal-mart came. It's a generational thing. The worse each generation is taught about work and pride the worse it gets. And it happens all over the place not just "at wal-mart" And Wal-mart did not precede it either, contrary to popular opinion as portrayed by the Media.

I got a complaint card, from my resort bike rental days, that the customer service was too good to be true and demanded a refund.

Conversation at the local Wal-Mart:

Brad: "Can I help you sir?"
Me: "Yes, I'm looking for a dog harness."
Brad: "Those are over here, come on."
Manager: "BRAD! LEAVE THE CUSTOMERS ALONE AND GET BACK TO WORK!"

Yeah, service is dead as it was once known. Salesmen seem to be a little more then hustlers now, more interested in a quick big sale then building a lasting relationship with a customer. I tried to by a TV at Best Buy, but they insisted I spend another $500 to have it installed! No way was I going to fall for that scam. I can attached the enclosed TV stand, set it on the TV stand that we've had since forever, screw in the cable TV box, then plug in the DVD player/VCR. This guy insisted I needed professional installation to completely enjoy their TV. I told them go screw themselves and went to Aaron's and got a better TV, no money down (I had to pay for the whole thing up front at Best Buy, which wasn't a problem that day) and made three payments that totaled less then the set alone at Best Buy, and was never pressured into a BS installation. The TV works fine with myself installing it.

I then went back and bought a computer from them. Same 90 day terms.
hah. Best Buy and Circuit City are like the Target, Whole Food Markets and etc's of Conns Appliances. Aaron's is like the Wal-Mart.

By the way, if you had bought it at Best Buy they probably would have called you non-stop asking you how pleased you were with your purchase. And when you told them not to call the number and to take it off of their list, they would then again call you back the very next day with the same question. :p

I'm so glad to be one-layer buffered from our customers. Doctors and scientists who mess things up feel that they are entitled to free replacements.

Tech Support to me: "So, I've got a doctor who rehydrated the product with PBS instead of d.i. water. Will that impact the results of the assay?"

Me to Tech Support: "Yes. The doctor is ******** and needs to learn to read the all the instructions before just rehydrating everything however he sees fit. Tell him to buy a new kit because we don't sell spares for that reagent."

Tech Support to Doctor: "Our engineer has informed us that the assay will not perform correctly, and we need to get a replacement reagent out to you." (proceeds to send out free replacement.)

How I'd actually phrase it to the doctor: "Listen. I don't care how you did things at East Elbonia Medical College. Here in the real world you have to read and follow the instructions, and when you don't do that I'm not required to send you a freebie. Unlike golf, science doesn't have Mulligans."

(This is why they pay me to solve problems, and not talk to customers.)

I had a similar experience at my car dealer with only one key. I waited patiently for over a month and i was always the one calling about it. Finally I received a customer service survey in the mail and let the sales guy have it.

I got a call right away from the Service Dept Manager with an apology and a key the next day. I also got a free certificate for an oil change. Not a big deal but the thought was there.

I'd suggest going above the sales persons head with a written letter or a phone call to the manager with a follow-up letter. Sometimes the pen is mightier than the sword!

If you would like to hear my reply to this post, please press 2 now. Para Espanol, prensa tres ahora.

The reduction in customer service is directly in line with the expectations of the customers.

People do all their investigation on the internet before they shop, so often the customer knows what they want or doesn't even want help when they go to purchase something, whether it be an iPod or a new car.

FWIW, Stuff is so cheap nowadays and technology changes so fast that it's easier to just throw it away and buy a newer, better, less expensive version of whatever you want than to deal with customer service.

I guess the two words that come to mind when thinking about my most recent customer service experiences are hostility and indifference. They act pissy towards me because i try to negotiate a good deal for myself and act indifferent when i ask for something.

It's kind of like: "You are here to spend money at our company, hurry up and give it to me and don't bother me."

I guess the two words that come to mind when thinking about my most recent customer service experiences are hostility and indifference. They act pissy towards me because i try to negotiate a good deal for myself and act indifferent when i ask for something.

It's kind of like: "You are here to spend money at our company, hurry up and give it to me and don't bother me."

Man, you should see how the company I work for bends over backwards for customers, whether they are multi-million dollar clients or Joe Schmoe down the block.

When the industry is uber-competitive, it does a lot for customer service.

I like the way the software industry deals with customer service. You pay through the nose for support of the product you pay retail for, and then wait inline on a phone tree to speak with someone whose native language is not your own.

I like the way the software industry deals with customer service. You pay through the nose for support of the product you pay retail for, and then wait inline on a phone tree to speak with someone whose native language is not your own.

Is that a fantastic business model or what???? :rolleyes:

I think i am aware of the reasons why customer service is becoming a distant memory. I understand the Walmartization of America and how we sacrificed our desire for customer service at the alter of Everyday Low Prices. But what i don't understand is why everyone drank the Kool aid and why we the consumers are so willing to accept it.

First of all, i must say that i am a service manager for a company and my job is to kiss people's asses pretty much all day every day whenever the time arises. We go above and beyond to accommodate our customers, in fact sometimes i think we go too far. I think a lot of the reason we do this is because my company is owned by an older gentleman who is probably doing it old school.

The thing that irks me is that I kiss butt with my customers all day long yet I don't go ANYWHERE and get the same treatment. I can give countless examples. A couple of weeks ago we traded cars. The salesman and staff of the dealership were nice enough but did absolutely nothing beyond bare minimum to get the deal done.

Then they got mad at me when i told them i wasn't going to finance through them. They told me that it was such a lean deal for them that i should at least finance through them so they could get the $200 kickback from the bank. That was just one thing. Then we ended up with only one key and they didn't give a crap at all. I also called the salesman on a couple other issues and he has promised to call me back and I haven't heard a word.

I can recite tons of other examples where people just don't give a crap and they don't follow through. It's no wonder everyone is buying everything online because you can do your own research and get it cheaper online. And besides you don't get any extra service with crap you buy locally because half of the sales reps haven't done the bare minimum like reading online to garner even the slightest bit of product knowledge.

It's scary how bad it has gotten in my relatively short 20 years of adulthood. How much worse can it get? It really makes me stop and think that most customers must be HUGE push overs because how else do these people stay in business? I end up raising hell everywhere i go, because i don't accept mediocrity or indifference.

Stay tuned.

Actually this is a great potential business opportunity. If your business or service provides outstanding service these days, you really do stand out. That's why my business works. Here's another example: why is Apple so successful? It's the software stupid. I'm astonished at how bad user interfaces are on the cellphones, DVRs, ATMs and PCs I use regularly. When a company offers software that's easy and intuitive to use, people will gravitate towards it. Think Different.

Stay tuned.

Actually this is a great potential business opportunity. If your business or service provides outstanding service these days, you really do stand out. That's why my business works. Here's another example: why is Apple so successful? It's the software stupid. I'm astonished at how bad user interfaces are on the cellphones, DVRs, ATMs and PCs I use regularly. When a company offers software that's easy and intuitive to use, people will gravitate towards it. Think Different.

This message brought to you by Apple, Inc.

Stay tuned.

Actually this is a great potential business opportunity. If your business or service provides outstanding service these days, you really do stand out. That's why my business works. Here's another example: why is Apple so successful? It's the software stupid. I'm astonished at how bad user interfaces are on the cellphones, DVRs, ATMs and PCs I use regularly. When a company offers software that's easy and intuitive to use, people will gravitate towards it. Think Different.

I won't argue with that, but it's tough. The big successful companies can put a lot of pressure on the up and comers. You can have the best service in the world but people will always go with the lower price. If I start a fast growing electronics company that offers things like free in home service, etc. then Best Buy just copies the same thing and cuts prices 20% below mine. Bye, bye me.

If you would like to hear my reply to this post, please press 2 now. Para Espanol, prensa tres ahora.

:lol:

Customer service has been pathetic with large corporations for a long time, but lately I've noticed that local businesses seem to be following the trend. There is a locally owned hardware store here and they are great about having all kinds of metric, stainless, allen-head bolts in stock, which of course is great for bikes. But most of the employees act like it is ruining their day to help you. They offer help right away, but in a way that leads me to believe they hate it and are being forced to. There was a store here that sold photographic equipment when I was more interested in photography. I wanted to support a local business, but after being treated like crap every time I went in there, I just started ordering from B&H instead. I was always nice to them, and they were consistently rude and uppity so they lost my business. There is one great exception: my LBS. They always seem happy to see me, and they go out of their way to get whatever weird parts I happen to need. Plus they're almost always as cheap as the online stores, or just slightly higher at worst. No matter what I need for a bike, I ALWAYS check with them first to see if they can order it for me. I will buy online but only if there's no way my LBS can get it.

Oh, and one large company that seems to have decent CS: Verizon. Every time I've called them I was greeted by an actual person right away. No automated menu and always someone who seems to speak English fluently. I'm always polite when I call any sort of technical support because I can only imagine what they deal with on a daily basis.

Consumers want inexpensive.

Companies have to cut costs to make inexpensive profitable.

Automated phone service cuts tons of cost and those who want a voice to talk to can hit "0" or fight through prompts to get one. It still cuts cost.

Other factors, such as customers ordering specific items on the internet, eliminate the need for customer service and sales positions, whether on the floor or at the cash register. This cuts cost by reducing need for physical store space for employees and inventory.

There is so much going on here. If a company can incorporate decent customer service, while at the same time showing a profit for shareholders, then they know how to run a business well. The minute the big-wigs see a place where profit can be gained for the shareholders, they will pounce. If that change costs them customers and profit, they will react in a similar way to rectify the situation.

Happy customers who are willing to pay more for good customer service. That's something that's dying out. Customers just want what they want and they want it now and cheap, customer service be damned.

Consumers want inexpensive.



The other day my 6 yr old was asking why everything was made in China. (actually why everything says "made in china." I basically gave the answer quoted above.

Stay tuned.

Actually this is a great potential business opportunity. If your business or service provides outstanding service these days, you really do stand out. That's why my business works. Here's another example: why is Apple so successful? It's the software stupid. I'm astonished at how bad user interfaces are on the cellphones, DVRs, ATMs and PCs I use regularly. When a company offers software that's easy and intuitive to use, people will gravitate towards it. Think Different.

Trendy marketing campaigns.

"Buy my soda!" said the Moose Diarrhea Salesman. And we did. We all did. But when we got it home and opened up the package, it was not what they said it was.
- J. Biafra "Eric meets the Moose Diarrhea Salesman"

Companies are driven by the market to get growth and profit, they are driven by their customers to provide high quality cheap products. This squeeze on margins means the focus is completely on productivity which means everyone is doing the jobs that were done by 2 or more people in the past. More work, unhappy customers = stress which just means you either get a someone who just doesn't care anymore or someone who is so overworked they are just keeping their noise above the water.

Thank God for direct deposit, online banking and shopping, I do just about everything I need with the exception of grocery shopping online. This cuts way back on my frustration level.

This is always a compelling issue and also one that is universally agreed on. I am a Corporate trainer for a major pharmaceutical company. Our client outsources its customer service to my office in PA and I am required to train all of their customer care agents. I can speak from both sides of the fence here. It is true that the attitudes of customers has diminished over the years, but that is no excuse for providing less than exemplary service for them. Our agents go through a rigorous 4 week classroom session and 2 week phone session to get their jobs amd once they are on the floor, continuing training sessions are always given. I like to think we keep on top of things pretty well. That is not to say, however, that we are perfect. I see a very high turnover rate in the profession due to the lack of personal accountability mentioned earlier in this thread. Many of our agents simply do not care if they do their job correctly, figuring that whatever they mess up someone else will just have to fix. This attitude is getting more and more pervasive in the industry. Right now our overall satisfaction is 98% which is good, although with over 3 million customers we still have quite a few who are not satisfied. We realize that we cannot possibly please everybody, but it is our goal to at least try to. Accountability is, indeed, a key component to this.

Just my $.02

Cheers,

Brian

my uncle used to say that ATMs were putting bank tellers out of work

Online banking is awesome. I haven't stepped in a bank since my car got broken into and I had to go close out and reopen my checking account almost a year ago.

Paying bills online with a credit card or through a checking account is awesome.

Knowing exactly when the 'check' is going to clear is awesome.

Not having to buy so many stamps, buy so many checks, or depend on the postal system to deliver a check is awesome.

Saving paper is, well, awesome.

Do I lament the potential loss of bank teller jobs, postal sorter jobs, or vanity check selling business jobs? No way. My life is more economical, accurate, and in control.

I think i am aware of the reasons why customer service is becoming a distant memory. I understand the Walmartization of America and how we sacrificed our desire for customer service at the alter of Everyday Low Prices. But what i don't understand is why everyone drank the Kool aid and why we the consumers are so willing to accept it.

First of all, i must say that i am a service manager for a company and my job is to kiss people's asses pretty much all day every day whenever the time arises. We go above and beyond to accommodate our customers, in fact sometimes i think we go too far. I think a lot of the reason we do this is because my company is owned by an older gentleman who is probably doing it old school.

The thing that irks me is that I kiss butt with my customers all day long yet I don't go ANYWHERE and get the same treatment. I can give countless examples. A couple of weeks ago we traded cars. The salesman and staff of the dealership were nice enough but did absolutely nothing beyond bare minimum to get the deal done.

Then they got mad at me when i told them i wasn't going to finance through them. They told me that it was such a lean deal for them that i should at least finance through them so they could get the $200 kickback from the bank. That was just one thing. Then we ended up with only one key and they didn't give a crap at all. I also called the salesman on a couple other issues and he has promised to call me back and I haven't heard a word.

I can recite tons of other examples where people just don't give a crap and they don't follow through. It's no wonder everyone is buying everything online because you can do your own research and get it cheaper online. And besides you don't get any extra service with crap you buy locally because half of the sales reps haven't done the bare minimum like reading online to garner even the slightest bit of product knowledge.

It's scary how bad it has gotten in my relatively short 20 years of adulthood. How much worse can it get? It really makes me stop and think that most customers must be HUGE push overs because how else do these people stay in business? I end up raising hell everywhere i go, because i don't accept mediocrity or indifference.

I've got to agree with you. I work in the service industry as well and find the same thing, fortunately I live in a resort (maybe not fortunate) and I get treated well as a local. Due to everyone here being beaten up daily, we also tend to back each other up when we are off and consumers.

Outside this bubble...service is a foreign word.

I do as much as I can online to avoid SDS (Service Disapoinemt Syndrome). As it has been pointed out many times already, people want cheap goods and services. People want ever growing 401(k) & investment accounts. The comapies that you, me, and most others invest in are always under pressure to grow profitability. One of the quickest ways to impact the bottom line of a company is to unload employees and the benefit obligations. No people, no service. Those that remain do more with less and are not happy about it.

This message brought to you by Apple, Inc.

Keep thinking that way, they're looking for good people in American Industry. You can be the last guy that turns out the lights.

Keep thinking that way, they're looking for good people in American Industry. You can be the last guy that turns out the lights.

Awww... "Lighten up, Francis".

Your post read like an apple commercial.

I personally would have no problem using a mac, except my company buys Windoze. There are more applications available anyway. Until there is more software available, and they license them to other companies to develop, it will likely stay that way.

I am amazed how many customers i contact to troubleshoot equipment never return my call or email. I call them 3 times over a 1 week period and on the 3rd message i state since they have not returned my call i will assume the problem is no longer an issue and will not call again. Maybe they are not used to people actually following up and don't know what to do.

I am amazed how many customers i contact to troubleshoot equipment never return my call or email. I call them 3 times over a 1 week period and on the 3rd message i state since they have not returned my call i will assume the problem is no longer an issue and will not call again. Maybe they are not used to people actually following up and don't know what to do.


I'm not so surprised by that. The way our system works, it is supposed to be competitive and coapnies have to vie for the consumer's dollar. That is why it surprises me that nobody tries very hard anymore yet the consumers are spending more than ever.

I can understand why a consumer doesn't call you back. He isn't trying to get anything from you apparently.

I like the way the software industry deals with customer service. You pay through the nose for support of the product you pay retail for, and then wait inline on a phone tree to speak with someone whose native language is not your own.

meh...I prefer this. I remember when software cost an arm and a leg. It came with great support but was very difficult to justify purchasing.

It also makes sense you are working at a company that has in house IT. You may not need support for 95% of the calls so you just don't buy it.

I have to say, I prefer this business model over being forced to pay for support hidden in the cost of the product. Way more options to justify to an ownership comittee looking to save cash.

I am amazed how many customers i contact to troubleshoot equipment never return my call or email. I call them 3 times over a 1 week period and on the 3rd message i state since they have not returned my call i will assume the problem is no longer an issue and will not call again. Maybe they are not used to people actually following up and don't know what to do.

I think folks are like that with everything. I don't know how many times I've contacted people about Craigslist adds to see if they still have a bike, and get no response. Then a couple of days later I'll see the same bike posted by a different seller, which tells me they sold it and figured there was no reason to respond to me. Then there's the people who post an ad saying they're looking for a certain bike, and I respond. They ask for pictures and a price, and I respond again. Then I never hear from them again. If you don't like the bike or if it's too much, just tell me or at least give some kind of excuse. It won't hurt my feelings, I just want to know one way or the other!

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/eab643de2f