Fifty Plus (50+) - A new "choice" in jerseys

Performance will let you wear your preference on your back. :rolleyes:

Performance will let you wear your preference on your back. :rolleyes:

Hmmmm.......wonder how safe you would be out on the road wearing one of those? I'm afraid someone of the opposite party might see a chance to eliminate an opposing voter:eek:

I like the colors though.

Where's the none of the above choice in the poll............

Bev...I was thinking the same thing. In some areas that might make a swell target!

Chris

We registered Independents need a symbol too.

I thought initially of a question mark, but this indicates we don't know... I do know I am independent, and solidly choose not to associate with either party since they both compromise their views in ways that I sometimes detest in order to get the most voters. I also don't hesitate to vote outside of the two major choices.

I like the colors though.

Here ya go!
http://elevengear.com/images/dopplerRear-J.jpg
The Doppler Shift Cycling Jersey (http://elevengear.com/doppler.html)

We registered Independents need a symbol too.

I thought initially of a question mark,

And for you we have...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/feb07/gpmarseillaise07/fs006.jpg
Team Unibet 2007

We registered Independents need a symbol too.

I thought initially of a question mark, but this indicates we don't know... I do know I am independent, and solidly choose not to associate with either party since they both compromise their views in ways that I sometimes detest in order to get the most voters. I also don't hesitate to vote outside of the two major choices.

In CT we have an Independant party thus the "unaffiliated" regestration applies.

Thread hijack alert!!!

How would you rate the "target factor" of each party, including Independants and Greens?

I'm sure it would vary by area.

Before this gets shipped to FOO, I have a question: anyone know where I can buy a jersey with the Superman logo on front?

[QUOTE=Big Paulie;5992511How would you rate the "target factor" of each party, including Independants and Greens?[/QUOTE]

Republicans and Libertarians would rate lowest as targets since they own most of the guns. Green would be my top target. I still blame Nader for this mess.:mad:

Before this gets shipped to FOO, I have a question: anyone know where I can buy a jersey with the Superman logo on front?

Krypton

I still blame Nader for this mess.:mad:

Have to agree there...

I still blame Nader for this mess.:mad:

Nader was one of about 10 things, a change in any one of which would have been sufficient, that caused the mess in 2000 that has led directly to our current sad state of affairs. If you ever doubt the serendipitous nature of history, you need look no further than the 2000 election. Think about this: A single, tiny change in the design in the ballot in Palm Beach County, and Pat Buchanan would not have gotten about 1200 votes intended for Al Gore, and Gore would have won Florida.

Nader was one of about 10 things, a change in any one of which would have been sufficient, that caused the mess in 2000 that has led directly to our current sad state of affairs. If you ever doubt the serendipitous nature of history, you need look no further than the 2000 election. Think about this: A single, tiny change in the design in the ballot in Palm Beach County, and Pat Buchanan would not have gotten about 1200 votes intended for Al Gore, and Gore would have won Florida.

For Christmas my eldest gave me a copy of "The Collected What If?" edited by Robert Cowley. Many of you would enjoy this book as "Eminent Historians Imagine what might have been"

. I still blame Nader for this mess.:mad:

Fair enough. I still blame Ross Perot for the Clinton years, and indirectly for Hillary's rise to power.

For Christmas my eldest gave me a copy of "The Collected What If?" edited by Robert Cowley. Many of you would enjoy this book as "Eminent Historians Imagine what might have been"

Great series, I highly recommend it!

I think its odd that Nader gets blamed for Bush's first win. Most of the people who voted for Nader did so because they were choosing between Nader and not voting at all.

You have to remember that the majority of Americans aren't Democrat voters or Republican voters or even a combination of both; the majority of Americans are non voters.

As a statistician, who 30 years ago was very involved in analyzing political data, I can state with a very high level of confidence that the "butterfly" ballot used in Palm Beach County, Florida, cost Al Gore a bare minimum of 3000 votes. This is based upon an examination of the ballots and consideration of the historic voting trends and demographics of each precinct in correlation with a physical examination of the ballots, most notably those that were double punched.

The most likely case is that it cost Gore between 6000 to 8000 votes, even considering the errors it also caused on the votes for Bush.

Bush won Florida on the official count by 537 votes.

So in the end it really wasn't Nader, nor was it vote fraud or errors made by voting machines. It was a simple matter of one county in Florida using an overly complicated ballot, which made it impossible to correctly count the votes in the way that that county's voters intended them to be cast.

The "blame" lies at the feet of the Palm County Democrat Party leadership, who were given a chance to review the structure of the ballot, well in advance of the election, and who approved it.

Technically the people of America voted for Gore. He won the popular vote, and he would have won the Electoral College had Palm Beach County not fouled up.

Unfortunately no recount could correct this error, as a recount is limited to the valid ballots that were cast. It can't correct for an error caused by a confused ballot.

One article that covered this fairly well was this one:
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/03/11/palmbeach.recount/

Damn people, don't get so technical over a throw away line. I still blame Nader, even if I'm wrong. :)

Besides, what does ballot design have to do with the lack of Corvair's on the road?

Well, it is true that if 0.6% of those who voted for Nader, had instead voted for Gore, that Bush would have lost the election, even with the butterfly ballot snafu.

So it is Nader's fault too! If he had recognized and appreciated the danger of a Bush presidency and had thrown his support to Gore, there is no question that Gore would have won. I mean, it wasn't like Nader was going to actually win a state.

Man, I miss my Corvair

Before this gets shipped to FOO, I have a question: anyone know where I can buy a jersey with the Superman logo on front?

You're looking for women's-specific cut with matching shorts, right?

It wasn't just Palm Beach. Katherine Harris disenfranchised a few thousand before the election. Gore should have won Tennessee or Arkansas. There were shenanigans with absentee ballots in Seminole County. If the Dems had asked to recount the whole state originally (like the Republicans) rather than a few counties, they would have won the recount. Kennedy could have followed his own precedent in equal protection law. Any one of those things, and Gore wins.

But then, 9/11 probably still would have happened and the Rs would have voted to impeach him.

Man, I miss my Corvair
Dude, me too. I had one of the models with a supercharger on it (is that an oxymoron). Wish I had it back.

I have a Superman t-shirt, purchased in Metropolis, Illinois, which has a great Superman shop and a large fiberglass Superman (20' high?) in their downtown square.

And for you we have...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/feb07/gpmarseillaise07/fs006.jpg
Team Unibet 2007
Yeah, but those guys rarely got to play due to strange gambling laws in France and elsewhere. I found it very odd that Lotto could ride but Unibet could not. Possibly, they too were victims of the butterfly (ballot) effect and their team vehicle was a Corvair truck (remember those).

edit --- Just wanted to tie the thread all together and get it back on the cycling track.

Fair enough. I still blame Ross Perot for the Clinton years, and indirectly for Hillary's rise to power.

The Big Dawg comes in in 1/92 and the Dow's at about 3200, and 11,500 eight years later. Seven years of the Rs, and the market's up about 8% total. I'd say we could use a little more Clinton mojo.

...their team vehicle was a Corvair truck (remember those)...

I crossed Canada going west and returned through the US in a Corvair Truck during the mid 60's. It had a home built wooden "camper" shell on the back. Carried our bikes on the roof. The transmission blew up in The Dalles, OR and we were stranded for almost a week until parts were brought in to repair it.

Dude, me too. I had one of the models with a supercharger on it (is that an oxymoron). Wish I had it back.

Hey, first nookie in the back seat of a '62

The Butterfly ballot was a problem? I've used them before, and anyone that can find their own butt with at least one hand can easily use one.

A butterfly ballot design with something like 8 or 10 candidates always confuses a reasonably high number of voters. There is reason to believe that over 15,000 voters mis-voted in one way or another in Palm Beach County alone in the 2000 election. With many of those being in precincts that had higher than average education levels.

A study was conducted in Canada where people took place in a pseudo election of their Prime Minister. They first voted using a butterfly ballot and then were asked for whom did they intend to vote. The error rate was roughly 20%!

That style of ballot should never be used.

In some areas that might make a swell target!

Chris

I was going to say, "Why don't we just get a jersey with a bullseye on the back?"

You'd be safer with any of the above jersey than you would be wearing this jersey in West Virginia. The good ol' boys would surely take care of anyone wearing this:

http://www.velogear.com/images/a_upj.gif