Fifty Plus (50+) - Test Riding Cervelo Today

LBS is setting up an 2008 Cervelo R3 SL for me to test ride today. The one I will test has Campy Chorus but if I pull the trigger, I am thinking about going SRAM Red. If not SRAM Red, then I will go D/A. I will put my Bontrager Race xxx lite carbon wheelset on it and we think even in my size it will be sub 15 pounds with saddle and pedals (assuming SRAM Red).

http://www.cervelo.com/bikes.aspx?bike=R3SL2008

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u250/rallen94402/R3-SL-1.jpg

Whoa. Is that a bike or an intergalactic cruiser? That thing looks so fast, it doesn't even sit still on my monitor.

SRAM component groups.............yummy.

For us common folk though...Rival is enough.

SRAM component groups.............yummy.

For us common folk though...Rival is enough.

Hey double D, did you check out the SRAM Red?. It is new and in limited supply. FYI...it is never enough. My nose bleeds when I look at the price list but the schwagg is worth the price to play. And please note that I am absolutely not worried about being worthy. Worthiness like Trix are for kids.;)

The TT will get a mixed group. Started with Rival brakes but much of the group is labeled by SRAM as "non series" Ie. TT shifters, TT brake levers, S-300 crankset.

When I finally remove the DA shift levers I will probably get the rest of the Rival 10 speed set. (not including the STI levers)

I'm afraid the Cervelo is beyond the current horizon. We will just have to see if I survive the White Rabbit TT without replacing the bulldog as someone's hood ornament.

Note: I can now safely mount and dismount the TT on the trainer without injuring myself...:o:D:o

SRAM component groups.............yummy.

For us common folk though...Rival is enough.

When I have to start replacing parts, I would like to go to the Sram Rival components.

Is there any way you can change the colour of those Decals? Blacks not too bad- but all that white will give the rider an inferiority complex if it ever gets anywhere near DG on his shopper.

Great bikes and one to aspire to.

Having been Mountain biking for so long- I am brainwashed into Shimano but I like everything about the "Red"- except for the prices.

Tasty, it must be nice to have the budget, especially for Red or DA. You only live once and you can't take it with you so what the hey.

I would really like to hear your impressions of that frame. What are you riding now? How does it compare? What other bikes have you tried to compare with the R3 SL? How tall are you and what size R3 did you test?

The one thing that has steered me away from the Cervelo bikes is the relatively short HT. I'm not getting any younger and my lower back just doesn't have the flexibility it once had. I know they have the RS now. But I am a bit disappointed it doesn't have the same layup as the R3.

When I have to start replacing parts, I would like to go to the Sram Rival components.

remember that when you start to change the "shiftables" that the SRAM road group uses a different ratio than Campy who are in turn different from Shimano.

You will have to change shifters, rear derailleur and cassette (probably chain) all at the same time to move into the SRAM road groups. I'm not sure about the front Derailleur yet. (for me with barcons, not a problem as front is friction but the double tap's may require it)

remember that when you start to change the "shiftables" that the SRAM road group uses a different ratio than Campy who are in turn different from Shimano.

You will have to change shifters, rear derailleur and cassette (probably chain) all at the same time to move into the SRAM road groups. I'm not sure about the front Derailleur yet. (for me with barcons, not a problem as front is friction but the double tap's may require it)

SRAM and Shimano are mostly interchangeable. The only parts that have to match are the shifter and the rear derailleur.

I would really like to hear your impressions of that frame. What are you riding now? How does it compare? What other bikes have you tried to compare with the R3 SL? How tall are you and what size R3 did you test?

The one thing that has steered me away from the Cervelo bikes is the relatively short HT. I'm not getting any younger and my lower back just doesn't have the flexibility it once had. I know they have the RS now. But I am a bit disappointed it doesn't have the same layup as the R3.

I will report later today. I have a Madone and the LBS is configuring the Cervelo to the exact (as close as possible) positions i.e. saddle to bar drop and etc. The idea is to get close to what I am riding today so that I can ride and appreciate (or not) the attributes of the new bike. The Cevelo can be rigged most anyway you want within reason. The picture shows a big seat to bar drop and I can assure you that will not be the case for me today.

SRAM and Shimano are mostly interchangeable. The only parts that have to match are the shifter and the rear derailleur.

Upon further research, it turns out that the cassettes have the same spacing and can be thought of as interchangable but the SRAM chain is narrower and may affect the "feel" of the cassette. The derailleurs (both front and rear) however have ratio's specific to the SRAM exact actuation shifters.

I will report later today. I have a Madone and the LBS is configuring the Cervelo to the exact (as close as possible) positions i.e. saddle to bar drop and etc. The idea is to get close to what I am riding today so that I can ride and appreciate (or not) the attributes of the new bike. The Cevelo can be rigged most anyway you want within reason. The picture shows a big seat to bar drop and I can assure you that will not be the case for me today.

"Wots da matter.........you couldn't find a Madone you liked in America"

To paraphrase a famous Ford commercial.

I followed the link and didn't see a weight limit, although those seat stays look amazingly minimal :)

Back from the test ride. The LBS did a fantastic job at duplicating the fit from my Madone. We put the bike on the trainer and checked out the fit - no adjustments needed. I am 6 feet, 168, 32 inseam and 35 sleeve length. The 58 cm frame with an 8 cm stem was perfect.

Next we weighed it and the bike as ridden weighed 15.2 pounds with Campy Chorus gruppo and Mavic wheels with carbon spokes.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u250/rallen94402/011608_14411.jpg

I had a number of things to get used to including the Campy Ergo shifters and the compact double 50/34 with an 12/25 cassette versus my Shimano triple. Last night I did 45 minutes of intervals on rollers so the engine was suspect but seemed okay. The saddle was stiffer than I am used to but the fit was perfect so it felt a little too firm but does not enter into the evaluation.

The bike did not have a computer so the only metric I had was heart rate. By virtue of it being 4 pounds lighter than my Madone, acceleration and hill climbing were improved. However, out of the saddle climbing was extremely smooth. My ride was 25 miles and included a 2.5 mile climb with sections of the climb at a 7% grade. Nothing long or difficult but a good test. I flew up the hill and it became clear that climbing was very good.

I went down a steep rough descent and this frame and wheelset are stiffer than I am used to but performance was excellent. I felt in control at high speed on the rougher pavement. I got to the time trial course and now it was time to run the engine up to 95 cadence and see what this thing can do. At high speeds, it was very stable and I could jump out of the saddle and accelerate. Once again, out of the saddle sprinting and climbing were superb. The compact double was so so and I would prefer a 53/39. At times I seemed like i was in the wrong gear and a couple of shifts left me spinning like crazy. Obviously, one shifts this configuration differently and one has to get the hang of it.

I liked the ride a lot and got waved to in the parking lot by a hot chick. This should be an easy sale. Back to reality...the Madone is a great bike but not in the league of a Cervelo R3 SL but the Madone rides really smooth on rough roads. The Cervelo's ride is harsher but the upside is the responsiveness and crispness. For climbing there is no comparison, and in the bay area that is all we do.

Ergo shifting left me feeling ho hum (this is a personal preference from years with Shimano so Campy users do not need to defend yourselves. Campy is a great solution). SRAM Red is tough in that there are few complete gruppos available. It takes a couple of weeks to get it and theoretically no test ride. And it is a lot of dough. I will digest this and may test ride another brand. However, this is the fun part of buying new bikes.

Good report. That's a lot of new stuff to get used to in one ride.

By the way, the new Road Bike Action arrived today and lo and behold.....a short review of riding with red.............:).

Choices......choices.

Nice review. Could you tell any problems with using a 8cm stem? That seems a tad short for a bike and rider your size. At 6'3", the 58cm would work for me but with a 120 stem. My saddle to bar drop is similar to yours thus I would also need quite a few spacers or need to flip the stem.

I was most interested in the ride characteristics of the R3 and you described them well. I guess there are always compromises. If a bike is that snappy it probably will be more harsh than one that starts out smooth. I want it all but the question is how much do I need? My Parlee Z4 is very smooth and a good climber, however it is not what I would call snappy. I love the bike and for 99% of the type of riding I do it is great. Just every so often when I stand or jump I wish it were a tad bit more snappy. Maybe a stiffer set of wheels would make some difference.

Good luck with your decision. The R3 is certainly a great race bike.

Before riding a fine bike like the Cervelo R3 SL, isn't a half hour of foreplay recommended?

I wonder what the comparisons would be to the new Madons. How come a 58c frame size, given as much rise, just the extra frame weight of a 59 or 60? :)

Nice review. Could you tell any problems with using a 8cm stem? That seems a tad short for a bike and rider your size. At 6'3", the 58cm would work for me but with a 120 stem. My saddle to bar drop is similar to yours thus I would also need quite a few spacers or need to flip the stem.

I was most interested in the ride characteristics of the R3 and you described them well. I guess there are always compromises. If a bike is that snappy it probably will be more harsh than one that starts out smooth. I want it all but the question is how much do I need? My Parlee Z4 is very smooth and a good climber, however it is not what I would call snappy. I love the bike and for 99% of the type of riding I do it is great. Just every so often when I stand or jump I wish it were a tad bit more snappy. Maybe a stiffer set of wheels would make some difference.

Good luck with your decision. The R3 is certainly a great race bike.

The reality is that i should have a 56 cm. However, the seat to handlebar drop is more than I want right now or maybe never. The 58 with the shorter stem solves the problem. The shorter stem on the test ride seemed okay but I did not do any technical turns e.g. switchbacks. The tracking at high power and fast descent was perfect. I descended a hill I normally coast down and cranked up the cadence enough to keep power on through the turns. The bike was perfect. So, who knows.

I think the wheelset, tire pressure and saddle firmness may have contributed to my "harsh" assessment. Before I purchase this bike or any, I will take my Bontrager Race XXX lites to the LBS and have him put them on the bike and my saddle. I suspect that will soften up the ride a little. However, i will lose some responsiveness.

When out of the saddle climbing, I thought i died and went to heaven. It was a total rush;)

I wonder what the comparisons would be to the new Madons. How come a 58c frame size, given as much rise, just the extra frame weight of a 59 or 60? :)

I really like the new Madones. I plan to take one out as well. Having said that and absolutely nothing against Trek, I own one and love it, I wanted something different.

Nice report. It seems that I see more and more of these ridden by pros. Where you live, I guess the hill climbing trumps the comfort of the Madone? I wonder what different wheels would do for the comfort and if that would have a negative impact on climbing.

I'm fascinated Hermes. Any guess as to the weight difference on the Mavic wheels versus your XXX's? And even with the sloping top tube the bike still felt very stable on fast descents as best you could tell? I didn't realize your existing bike was as heavy as it was (not that is heavy). Isn't it a blast when you can really feel the difference in weight when standing or accelerating? The bike just seems to lurch forward when you mash the pedals. When you drop 2-3 more pounds you'll be a real terror on hills and accelerating.

I'd also find that Campy would be an adjustment but I do really like the cleaner look I see on some of my buddies bikes.

Our measurements are very close to the same-our weights are the same (at least when I've ridden more), I might be an inch taller but our arm lengths are the same. It looks like my legs are 2+ inches longer though-probably why I can get away with riding a range of 58-62 frames (using Trek frames). I also like not having quite as much drop in the bar heights and for that reason a 58 would be on my bottom end of frame sizes and a 60 is probably ideal.

I will be very interested in your thoughts around the new Madone. I'm just a few more years away from getting out from under the 3 college tuitions and finding a used model in a year or so might be something for me to keep an eye on.

Like you, I really enjoy shopping around and investigating the various options.

Good report, the nice thing is that once you move into this class of bikes you really can't make a bad decision. All of the little nuances are icing on the cake. Light and stiff make the bike sooo responsive, I found when I got my Scott it took awhile to get use to it. While I would not say it is twitchy I would say it does not take a whole lot of input to get a response. How was the R3 in that regard? It would really look nice with a set of 404s.

Nice report. It seems that I see more and more of these ridden by pros. Where you live, I guess the hill climbing trumps the comfort of the Madone? I wonder what different wheels would do for the comfort and if that would have a negative impact on climbing.

My observation is that pros use what the sponsors provide to the owners of the teams. Our racing club has many sponsors and we get deals from them (Cervelo is not one). For example, our team kits are from Voler. I wear Voler. Is it the best? Probably not but it is cheap via our club and works fine.

I do not know if I have to give up comfort versus stiffness. Wheelsets and tire pressure can make a huge difference in comfort. I was very pleased with my LBS's work to set up the bike for me. We did it to get close. If I like it and want to pursue a bike at this price point, then we can play around with different wheelsets. My LBS has numerous demo wheelsets from deep dish carbons to the Mavics with carbon spokes that I demoed and I have my own stable of wheels. All of my wheelsets are Shimano compatible.

I'm fascinated Hermes. Any guess as to the weight difference on the Mavic wheels versus your XXX's? And even with the sloping top tube the bike still felt very stable on fast descents as best you could tell? I didn't realize your existing bike was as heavy as it was (not that is heavy). Isn't it a blast when you can really feel the difference in weight when standing or accelerating? The bike just seems to lurch forward when you mash the pedals. When you drop 2-3 more pounds you'll be a real terror on hills and accelerating.

I'd also find that Campy would be an adjustment but I do really like the cleaner look I see on some of my buddies bikes.

Our measurements are very close to the same-our weights are the same (at least when I've ridden more), I might be an inch taller but our arm lengths are the same. It looks like my legs are 2+ inches longer though-probably why I can get away with riding a range of 58-62 frames (using Trek frames). I also like not having quite as much drop in the bar heights and for that reason a 58 would be on my bottom end of frame sizes and a 60 is probably ideal.

I will be very interested in your thoughts around the new Madone. I'm just a few more years away from getting out from under the 3 college tuitions and finding a used model in a year or so might be something for me to keep an eye on.

Like you, I really enjoy shopping around and investigating the various options.

My Race XXX Lites are 1350 gm which is the same as the Mavics with the carbon spokes. The Mavics said TT Demo on the stickers. I think it is a wheelset that is available to shops for demos.

Right now, I am running Easton Tempest IIs on the Madone for the winter. The carbons are hanging around along with the Race Lites that came with the bike. A few months ago, I weighed the Madone with the Race Lites using the bathroom scale approach i.e. me and then me with bike. It was around 19 pounds +-. I did it again with the Race XXX lites and it was 17.5 +-. My 4 pounds may be overstated. Also, bike weights are always quoted without pedals and in the smallest size frame. For the Cervelo to come in at 15.2 pounds in a 58 cm frame with pedals and a heavy water bottle cage is remarkable. The frame is in the 800 gm range.

In general, racers do not like Bontrager wheelsets - to soft and not stiff enough. And the wheelsets issued to pro teams by Bontrager are different that what we get.

The main draw for me to the R3 SL frame was its claim to be stiff, light and strong (ideal for Paris Roubaix) and shock absorbing. That statement seems like it has something in it for everyone.:rolleyes: However, testing is the way to sift through the BS.

I have a coach and go to a cycling training center. My coach says my weight is ideal right now so I will hold 168. I am putting my money into the engine right now. Bike buying is a couple of months off when the engine and riding position are tuned up a bit more. For example, my coach thinks that I may be ready for for a 53/39 double by the middle of the year. These guys are hardware agnostic and only care about hitting your numbers and doing what they say.

I really like my Madone and Trek is a great company that takes cycling very seriously as well as product quality. I will try definitely try a new one.

Good report, the nice thing is that once you move into this class of bikes you really can't make a bad decision. All of the little nuances are icing on the cake. Light and stiff make the bike sooo responsive, I found when I got my Scott it took awhile to get use to it. While I would not say it is twitchy I would say it does not take a whole lot of input to get a response. How was the R3 in that regard? It would really look nice with a set of 404s.

The R3 was not twitchy and handling was superb. So is my Madone. However, I will say that the R3 felt, (very qualitative statement) very stable going really fast and turned precisely where I looked. As you know, you look ahead through the turns at high speed so the bike goes where you look. Never look down or to the side of the road on a high speed descent or that is where you go. More so than the Madone.

FWIW, I weighed a set of Mavic R-Sys wheels at 1400g. So they are not quite as light as Mavic says. Also, they are the least aero set of wheels on the market. I'm waiting for the new Shimano wheels to come out.

I'm fascinated Hermes. Any guess as to the weight difference on the Mavic wheels versus your XXX's? And even with the sloping top tube the bike still felt very stable on fast descents as best you could tell? I didn't realize your existing bike was as heavy as it was (not that is heavy). Isn't it a blast when you can really feel the difference in weight when standing or accelerating? The bike just seems to lurch forward when you mash the pedals. When you drop 2-3 more pounds you'll be a real terror on hills and accelerating.

I'd also find that Campy would be an adjustment but I do really like the cleaner look I see on some of my buddies bikes.

Our measurements are very close to the same-our weights are the same (at least when I've ridden more), I might be an inch taller but our arm lengths are the same. It looks like my legs are 2+ inches longer though-probably why I can get away with riding a range of 58-62 frames (using Trek frames). I also like not having quite as much drop in the bar heights and for that reason a 58 would be on my bottom end of frame sizes and a 60 is probably ideal.

I will be very interested in your thoughts around the new Madone. I'm just a few more years away from getting out from under the 3 college tuitions and finding a used model in a year or so might be something for me to keep an eye on.

Like you, I really enjoy shopping around and investigating the various options.

Campy shifting seemed heavy to me. It requires a very positive force. Shimano goes out of their way to create a light action on their Ultegra and D/A. But this is a Porsche / Ferrari debate.

Acceleration was amazing both sitting and standing but I suspect standing more so because that is where the later stiffness and lower weight would really come into play.

Back from the test ride. http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u250/rallen94402/011608_14411.jpg

I liked the ride a lot and got waved to in the parking lot by a hot chick. This should be an easy sale.

Hermes gave me a full verbal report of his test ride, but left out this detail. :rolleyes: Easy sale?? Hmmm . . . .

Hermes gave me a full verbal report of his test ride, but left out this detail. :rolleyes: Easy sale?? Hmmm . . . .

I thought he was referring to you when he mentioned the babe in the parking lot. Silly me. :p

FWIW, I weighed a set of Mavic R-Sys wheels at 1400g. So they are not quite as light as Mavic says. Also, they are the least aero set of wheels on the market. I'm waiting for the new Shimano wheels to come out.

Agreed. From reviews on Roues Artisanales and Tour Magazin, the Shimanos look good. I think I'd really like some Reynolds DV46-C's, but they are a bit spendy.

Nice bike Hermes! Looks like you're going to find something really nice.

And about the compact question - I've got a 53/39 with 12/25 or 12/27 cogs on my Scott CR1 SL. I've got a compact on my older, heavier Trek 2300. Seems like a nice combination for me. I always ride hills, and I ride the Scott in the summer and the Trek in the winter.

The reality is that i should have a 56 cm. However, the seat to handlebar drop is more than I want right now or maybe never. The 58 with the shorter stem solves the problem. The shorter stem on the test ride seemed okay but I did not do any technical turns e.g. switchbacks. The tracking at high power and fast descent was perfect. I descended a hill I normally coast down and cranked up the cadence enough to keep power on through the turns. The bike was perfect. So, who knows.

I think the wheelset, tire pressure and saddle firmness may have contributed to my "harsh" assessment. Before I purchase this bike or any, I will take my Bontrager Race XXX lites to the LBS and have him put them on the bike and my saddle. I suspect that will soften up the ride a little. However, i will lose some responsiveness.

When out of the saddle climbing, I thought i died and went to heaven. It was a total rush;)

Stem length is not as critical to handling as getting the fit right. If that requires a shorter stem on a larger bike- then so be it. I cannot understand why the stem length has to be 100mm or it won't work.
The height of the saddle- even if it is a sloping tube- Does not point to a smaller frame being a necessity to me. Although a 56 may fit you better- will the top tube be 20mm longer? Or will a different stem length still be required on the 56 to get the fit right?

Now on the wheels- when I was checking out bikes last year- I took my good set of wheels along to check out the bike. A different set of wheels could cause a big difference in the handling that could sway your decision one way or the other.

Looks a great bike but it will be interesting to see if other bikes match up to it.

Stem length is not as critical to handling as getting the fit right. If that requires a shorter stem on a larger bike- then so be it. I cannot understand why the stem length has to be 100mm or it won't work.
The height of the saddle- even if it is a sloping tube- Does not point to a smaller frame being a necessity to me. Although a 56 may fit you better- will the top tube be 20mm longer? Or will a different stem length still be required on the 56 to get the fit right?

Now on the wheels- when I was checking out bikes last year- I took my good set of wheels along to check out the bike. A different set of wheels could cause a big difference in the handling that could sway your decision one way or the other.

Looks a great bike but it will be interesting to see if other bikes match up to it.

I have the same experience with stem lengths--whatever works best. Additionally, the spec chart in the OP has an interesting measurement that I have not seen for other bikes: the "Reach."

The 61c Cervelo's Reach is only 6mm longer than the 58. An even smaller frame, seems to me, permanently locks a rider into an aggressive riding position.

I seldom use my drops. Even so, I like set-ups that allow that option, as well as a range of hand and body positions that are above the drop-position.

:)

I have the same experience with stem lengths--whatever works best. Additionally, the spec chart in the OP has an interesting measurement that I have not seen for other bikes: the "Reach."

The 61c Cervelo's Reach is only 6mm longer than the 58. An even smaller frame, seems to me, permanently locks a rider into an aggressive riding position.

I seldom use my drops. Even so, I like set-ups that allow that option, as well as a range of hand and body positions that are above the drop-position.

:)

Reach really makes more sense than the old use of setback. Both really describe the same thing. In the case of the R3 with parallel 73 degree angles the difference in top tube length is divided equally between reach and setback. The math works out to Cos 73 degrees = x/20mm (the added HT length) where x = 5.85mm.

So with the larger 61cm frame the bars will be for the same stem length and angle, 2cm higher and 6mm longer. Meanwhile the saddle relative to the seatpost clamp would have to move forward 6mm to be in the same position behind the BB. So really the rider would only have the extra 6mm of reach and 2cm of bar height different than the 58cm frame.

Now to directly compare the two frames, if we moved the bar up the 2cm on the 58 to equal the bar height of a 61cm frame with no spacers, the bar would then move 6mm closer to the saddle. So the difference between the two bikes at the same bar height would be 12mm or coincidently due to the parallel angles and similar geometry the same as the difference in top tubes of the two frames.

The larger frame would have a longer wheelbase. In the case of the R3 with similar chainstay lengths in all sizes, all that would be in the front end. How that affects handling would be dependent upon position on the bike and type of riding you do.

Looks like there will be quite a few Cervelos on the roads of California soon. Team CSC is on the roster (http://amgentourofcalifornia.com/news/press/2008-team-announcement.html) for the Tour of California.

Looks like there will be quite a few Cervelos on the roads of California soon. Team CSC is on the roster (http://amgentourofcalifornia.com/news/press/2008-team-announcement.html) for the Tour of California.

Hi,

My last road race in October looked like a Cervelo convention at the start line. It was a Pro/1/2/3 race (it wasn't my original intent to be racing with these guys!) and most of the Cervelos were SLC-SLs.

Anyway, I very seriously considered the Soloist Carbon and the R3 before going with Serotta. I am still quite impressed with the design of the R3.

Buddie of mine recently got the same bike. Full Record and Shamal wheels! Have not seen it yet but when pressed he said after everything was said and done the LBS had $7000 of his hard earned dollars.

I thought he was referring to you when he mentioned the babe in the parking lot. Silly me. :p

I was hoping to lure SSP into this discussion. There has to be a hot chick to get his attention.:p;):D

I was hoping to lure SSP into this discussion. There has to be a hot chick to get his attention.:p;):D

Scramble.....scramble.......scratch.......

I was hoping to lure SSP into this discussion. There has to be a hot chick to get his attention.:p;):D

Picture? :D

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w76/cgallagh/MEA_Deb_SHoes.jpg

I was hoping to lure SSP into this discussion. There has to be a hot chick to get his attention.:p;):D

That is pretty lame. :p

That is pretty lame. :p

You know dear. I thought it WAS you. You know how easily men can get confused.:p

Scramble......scratch.......scramble.......grovel......