Living Car Free - walmart bikes!

are they really junk or just a bad rap cause there a bike built in china?

It depends on how you define junk. You won't get a $600 bike shop bike for $200 at Walmart. They won't be the same quality. But for $200, they aren't bad bikes for kids, someone who doesn't ride much or for someone that wants a winter beater. You will have to go over everything and make sure the Walmart quality employee who built the bike didn't leave any bolts or screws loose.

BTW, most good brand name bikes today are built in China.

a lot of them really are crap.... Many of them pack maximum "features" in trade for quality & reliability.

I did buy a wall-world bmx bike for my brother: coaster brake, no suspension, very simple, $65 and going strong 6 years later! :) so they can be just fine for their purpose.

Cheers

I rode a kmart cruiser frame for years as a beater with no problem, but when the frame bent cuz i bunnyhopped a pothole it threw the chain, locked up the pedals, and ruptured my spleen with the handlebar.

..........ruptured my spleen with the handlebar.

well that's no good.....

well that's no good.....

Yeah i was in the hospital for 4 days and got billed 9800 dollars but its not like that couldn't have happened on an expensive bike... Ive broke a chainstay weld on a Trek frame before and that had to be at least a $400 bike. Didnt smash any organs when that one broke though. :)

I have some recent experience with walmart bikes in the process of building this xtracycle inspired load-carrier bike out of a few dumpster-rescued x-mart bikes....

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x248/cyclaholic_album/xtracycle/xtra07.jpg


The first thing I learnt in stripping them down was that they are assembled with fairly poor quality components. Bolt heads and threads strip and round off with very little effort. Bearing surfaces are left soft instead of surface hardened. There is plastic in places where there really should be steel or at least aluminum alloy.

In the process of stripping down an almost new bike I found that they're put together very poorly, obviously assembled in a hurry. None of the bearings were properly adjusted or locked, and they had virtually no lubrication.

The frame welding is adequate. The frames are heavy but not strong, they're made of a relatively soft grade of steel. I was surprised at just how soft they are. Subsequently there's fairly thick walled tubing to compensate. The welding also looks to be the absolute minimum to hold these frames together and obviously done in a hurry. The ones I cut open had voids where the welds were done 'cold' and had not fused to the tubes, a fault caused by running the weld too fast. Thicker welds in this case give a much stronger joint, you can see the difference between my welds and the original welds here....

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x248/cyclaholic_album/xtracycle/xtraWld1.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x248/cyclaholic_album/xtracycle/xtraWld2.jpg

The situation isn't all bad, it comes down to just how you use the bike. If you just putter around occasionally at low speed on a local MUP then these bikes are OK. I suspect that 99% of people that buy these bikes do exactly that. If you're a dedicated commuter or car-free and heavily rely on your bike, and consequently are an above-average strong rider then I think you're risking serious injury on one of these bikes.

If you get one of these bikes I would suggest you take the time to completely strip it down to a bare frame and reassemble it properly. Lube all the bearings, set the preloads properly, replace bolts at critical points with high tensiles, and adjust everything as you go. I did just that on this project and now the components performs far better than on the original bikes.

My kids ride on these x-mart bikes after I stripped and rebuilt them (the bikes, not the kids :D), but the oldest only just came off her training wheels and can barely hit 8 mph. As she gets stronger and rides longer distances at higher speeds she'll be on a better quality bike.

^^^ supports my experience and arguments...If you plan to ride at all I would suggest getting a decent used "brand" name bike. I quite often suggest to people that they head down to my LBS, they usually have several decent used bikes for 1/3-1/4 of new that come with a 6 month warranty and free 30 day check up. I buy them on occasion. My last one was a 2003 Staiger that will have sold for over $750 new, I picked it up for $175. That bike came fully loaded with fenders, lights, racks, V brakes, air pump and a Nexus generator hub:D

Aaron:)

http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/6984/2910368300066886751S500x500Q85.jpg

are they really junk or just a bad rap cause there a bike built in china?

Maybe a little of both. Well, not so much that they're made in China, since a lot of "good" bikes are made there too. Just that they're bought at a discount store and have no status value. Of course they have junk components and they're harder to work on, but millions of people ride them every day. including the majority of utility cyclists who don't bother to join Bikeforums.net.

My first bike, about 6 years ago, was an abused Roadmaster (Walmart, I believe) MTB that I bought used for $40--and that was overpriced. But it got me riding regularly and served me faithfully for 5 or 6 months. At that point I knew enough about what I was doing to buy a good used Specialized.

Too many beginners get hung up on wanting the "just right" bike. They worry so much about buying the wrong one that they don't buy anything at all. Ride something, it doesn't much matter what, as long as it fits you. Worry about getting the "just right" bike later, when you know more about what you're doing.

I think wal-mart's bikes are sold almost exclusively to people who a)don't know what makes a quality bike, and b)won't be doing any riding outside of their local neighborhood. So really, they don't have any reason to produce a nice bike.

When bikes are made with cheap frames and cheap components, things will go wrong in a hurry. And if a bike is assembled improperly and not checked, it can result in ongoing maintenance issues. For anyone using a bike for commuting or day-to-day riding, the bike should be reliable and dependable. That's my only complaint about department store bikes.

There are some good bargains to be had in the local bike shops. An adult bicycle at a department store costs around the $200 mark. At a local bike shop, I can get something of a similar style but much better built for just over $300. If a bike shop carries used bikes, it's possible to get a lower price on a much better bike than the department store special.

For what its worth:
I have been goofing with a Mongoose IBOC that was originaly sold at Target. I don't have more than 20 miles on it. (An aside I did not buy this bike, it was left over when a co-worker brought me 3 bikes to make two.) It riides OK but I have replaced these parts on it:
wheels
seat post (to short for the average adult male)
rear derailur
front brakes
Will be changing soon:
crank and chain rings
front derailur

So it rides pretty good and only needs a few things replaced. Oh I havent broken it down to see what is used for the bushings in the pivots. I don't expect them to last long.

For what its worth:
I have been goofing with a Mongoose IBOC that was originaly sold at Target. I don't have more than 20 miles on it. (An aside I did not buy this bike, it was left over when a co-worker brought me 3 bikes to make two.) It riides OK but I have replaced these parts on it:
wheels
seat post (to short for the average adult male)
rear derailur
front brakes
Will be changing soon:
crank and chain rings
front derailur

So it rides pretty good and only needs a few things replaced. Oh I havent broken it down to see what is used for the bushings in the pivots. I don't expect them to last long.

How much did it cost to change all that?

Not much but I tinker with cycles alot. So I had all of it in the parts bins. If I would have had to even use Nashbar it would have exceded the cost of the bike new. So the idea is you would be ahead to buy a better bike from the start.
If you like doing your own work you can keep an eye out at the local charity thrift stores. This is the time of year when people donate. I know I have found some very sweet old road bikes for very little money.

A good middle range go to a Dick's sporting goods type place, they have Diamondbacks for 200-600 and they really aren't all that bad for light use.

A good middle range go to a Dick's sporting goods type place, they have Diamondbacks for 200-600 and they really aren't all that bad for light use.

I guess that would work if you insist on having a brand new bike...I am headed to the LBS Saturday to check out a traded in Trek 830? MTB in a 23" frame. If it pans out should be the base bike for my Xtracycle, they are "probably" only going to ask $125 for it. It will come with 6 month warranty and 30 day free tuneup. It will have been thoroughly checked over and will be ready to ride. That bike sold for around $400 10 years ago, to me a much better deal than an entry level $300 bike today. Besides the money saved goes for beer, pizza and bike parts:p

Aaron:)

Some of the single speed cruisers would probably last a little while and be relatively trouble-free, but anything at that price point even attempting to have front and/or rear shocks, a triple in the front and 8-speed in the rear is going to be complete, grade Z crap. A couple people will inevitably disagree with this, but they are wrong.

Giant, Trek and others have plenty of fine entry-level stuff for just a little bit more money, and even better quality used stuff can be found in Craigslist or the paper. I say this not because I hate Walmart, but because I love bicycles. Friends don't let friends buy bikes from Wally World.

I've only bought one bike out of a big box discount store, Zayre (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8dsqi5Kn4I&NR=1) I believe. The link has a nice ad for them. This link has Batman at Zayres (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0npSJIi5y_g)It was a Royce Union 10 speed. The frame was fine, but all the screws were cheap and stripped within 6 months. I had one other bike from Montgomery Ward, another 10 speed that I got off my brother. The frame came apart two weeks after I started riding it.

I never bought from Walmart but I did buy a department store bike that I would say was half a step up. The store couldn't keep the BB running for more than a week without problems. I swapped it out for a cheap sealed unit. I broke the rear axle (twice) OK, that took a while. The frame gave up after a couple of years, cracking through at the seat post clamp. The paint was thin as paper.

However, it did good duty for 2 years, and for the money was worth it.
I now have a mid range older bike and have much more enjoyment out of it.

If you accept that what you are buying is mostly a bike shaped toy, then OK, It will work, but don't expect to get much mileage out of it without putting some more into it, and don't trust it till you've stripped and rebuilt ti.

If you accept that what you are buying is mostly a bike shaped toy, then OK, It will work, but don't expect to get much mileage out of it without putting some more into it, and don't trust it till you've stripped and rebuilt ti.
But I expect more. If I'm buying a new item, whether a bicycle, computer, a piece of machinery or a tool I'll use, I want something that will work reliably. I've turned down so-called bargains because I wasn't convinced of the quality of the product. And if I buy something unreliable and it breaks down, I'll have to buy it again. In that case, I'll pay twice instead of spending a bit more to get a more dependable item the first time.

One of the bikes I have is an aluminum frame "Schwinn" Prelude from Target. I've switched out the seat, handlebars, and levers, and added Power Grips to the platform pedals. I paid $150 for the bike, and about another $90 on the aforementioned accessories/parts. It wasn't put together too badly; I had to adjust the derailers and brakes, but everything else seems spot-on. It seems fairly solid compared to any other bike from xmart. I don't worry about it falling apart at speed, or anything.

I probably could have just spent a little more and got a "proper" bike from the LBS, but on the other hand I really don't see why this xmart bike can't be used to commute, even unmodified. The only thing that really needed to be changed was the seat (the stock one is awful), but everything else was basically preference. I've gone on 30 mile round trip rides with it, with no major complaints. I don't see why something of the nature couldn't be used for commuting, honestly, as long as you know enough about bikes to keep an eye out for problems. The things are built to a price, and I imagine they aren't as durable as many pricier bikes.

My first "adult" bike was a department store MTB. I actually rode it for a couple of years, but by the end of that time it was completely trashed. It was $115, which is $60 more than the very good '88 Mongoose Alta I got recently that is an infinitely better bicycle, and it was an entry level Mongoose in its day (which is far different from an "entry level" Mongoose today, I'm afraid).

For an example, my local craigs list has a Trek 800 listed for $80. By going to vintage-trek.com I can see the specifications. It was entry level when it was made but its frame is Cro-mo main tubes and nice rapid fire shifters. The frame was desighned to last a life time -so the warranty states for the original owner. It is very plain looking compared to the glitz of dual suspension and chrome glitz of the department store bike but it is good solid trasportation.

I got a schwinn crossfit from goodwill for 15 dollars, put 40 dollars of good new tires onto it, and swapped the seat and stem with ones i had at home, cleaned it and threw on some fenders.

So now i have this touring-geometry bike with 700c wheels for cheaper than a fugly huffy full-suspension walmart turd. the frame is made of hi-tensile steel instead of cro-mo so it weighs more than it should, but for 15 bucks i dont care.

But while I looked for a thrift store deal, i rode my moms diamondback hybrid to work and the grocery store for about a month. it got the job done.

a lot of them really are crap.... Many of them pack maximum "features" in trade for quality & reliability.
/snip


I agree, I used to have a mart bike when I was a kid. The brakes failed on the first day I rode it, and the gears wouldn't shift properly when they were supposed to, but sometimes did shift when I put more pressure on the pedals. Also, a mate of mine got a mart bike a month ago, and the crankset is stuffed already! He doesn't ride far, fast, or aggressively, either.

I rode a Canadian tire CCM bicycle (It's a Canadian thing) for a few years. The farthest I would go was probably 4km from home. When I started riding to work, I had all sorts of problems.

-Rims bent
-Shifters wore out, leaving me only able to use the middle chainring
-jockey gear came loose and wrecked the derailleur
-Finally, the crank arm snapped, yes, clean off.


Another bicycle later, I ride a custom fixed gear, entirely built by myself. I'm entirely happy with my bicycle, finally. I've rode it from +40c to -35c, off road, over potholes, snow, ice. People ask me how the heck does such a plain looking bicycle, no shocks, no shifters, one speed. cost more then a 21 speed duel susp. bike from Wal-mart

Well, I spent part of my summer building Walmart bikes, and they definitely aren't the greatest thing in the world. There are several factors that contribute to their crappyness in many stores.

1.) Shipping: I have to wonder how they are treated during shipping, because we often got bikes in with bent rims. We eventually started truing them because it would take over a month or more for a new rim to come in (or longer) and we needed to sell the bike and didn't want it to be total crap.

For some reason, CCM seemed to be the worst - even CCM bike boxes straight off the truck were in ratty condition.

2.) Plastic: Way too much stuff is made with plastic. I have taken bikes out of their boxes with broken shifters and the like. We have had other parts (like the chain guard) made of plastic and those break off in a hurry!

3.) Assembly: Not trying to sound smug, but the guy I was working with taught me how to assemble these things properly. The main problem we had bikes being returned for was pedals falling off (I'm not sure if that is the manufacturers fault or the users fault). But by the end of my time there when we were using locktite on the pedals, we had virtually no returns.

4.) Users: Sometimes, people just abuse stuff and don't treat it properly because it is cheap. And then you will have problems. When kids do big jumps on bike not made to do jumps, of course stuff is going to bend or come loose. When kids do jumps on bikes with deraileurs while pedaling, of course the chain may come off (it happened to me plenty on my non-walmart bikes when I was a kid). Just because your brake cables are broken in doesn't mean that the entire bike is "broken". It just means that the brakes and shifters need a bit of adjustment (which we can do for them).

But, yeah. On the whole, Walmart bikes are not of the highest quality (I could go on a long rant about the poor quality of various Walmart products I have had to assemble at Walmart), but if you are not doing heavy duty specialized riding then a Walmart bike can do you just fine. You just need to be able to give it regular maintenance and adjustments. Actually, you are ahead of the game if you can properly adjust brakes and shifters, because many Walmarts have staff that don't know what they are doing when putting bikes together. Check them over. If buying Walmart bikes, check to make sure that the rims are good and are not bent, and other such things, because some of them will be in poor shape, but others will be in decent shape.

Yeah, anyway, that's just my 25 cents (CDN) worth.

3.) Assembly: Not trying to sound smug, but the guy I was working with taught me how to assemble these things properly. The main problem we had bikes being returned for was pedals falling off (I'm not sure if that is the manufacturers fault or the users fault). But by the end of my time there when we were using locktite on the pedals, we had virtually no returns.
Years ago, when I got my first decent bike, it was on sale at a grocery store of all places. The price was good and the bike fit me, so I bought it. Within the first week, the left crank arm had worked loose. None of the efforts to fix it worked properly. Eventually, I wound up buying a new crank assembly and the bike worked fine. The bike lasted me for six years and thousands of kilometres, until a thief decided to relieve me of it.

4.) Users: Sometimes, people just abuse stuff and don't treat it properly because it is cheap.

World's Fastest Wal-Mart Bike....

http://michaelbelfiore.com/files/u1/pickens_bike.jpg

And surprisingly, the direct forerunner to Spaceship One.

Rocketeers (http://michaelbelfiore.com/excerpt)

Also, consider this. If you get a bike from the higher end of what is offered at Target, WalMart, or K-Mart, where are you going to get it serviced? Back when Sears and Montgomery Ward (remember Montgomery Ward, anyone?) sold bikes in their stores, they did (at least in some places) have service departments; the abovementioned don't.

They really are cheap. My girlfriend convinced herself to purchase an Aria Carrera from Sport mart, she thought it was really cute looking. Well, 2 weeks after purchase her "suspension fork" started making massive amounts of noise. Upon inspecting it, I discovered that its not even designed to be openable or serviceable. So, then I go to look at getting a new fork for her.. Well, guess what? Its using 1" threaded. Where did they even come up with that?! Don't get me started on the rest of the bike.

Most of these bikes *are* like this, low quality, poorly designed componentry that isn't designed for longevity and sometimes isn't even designed with standard cycling compatibility in mind. I would imagine the company who decided to build this bike with that sort of fork did so *just* so that the buyer would have a hard time with it down the road, planned obsolescence.

Most of these bikes *are* like this, low quality, poorly designed componentry that isn't designed for longevity and sometimes isn't even designed with standard cycling compatibility in mind. I would imagine the company who decided to build this bike with that sort of fork did so *just* so that the buyer would have a hard time with it down the road, planned obsolescence.

I call them "bicycle-shaped pieces of scrap metal."

If you invest in a really good bike, with decent maintainance it will work for years. If you by a cheap one you replace every year (at best), over the same period you'll end up spending more on bikes than you would if you had bought a good one in the first place.

This is true of other products besides bicycles, by the way.

are they really junk or just a bad rap cause there a bike built in china?

Only buy a bike from walmart if you hate bikes. If you want a junky cheap bike (which is what you get at walmart) buy it from a respectable corporation who does not damage manufacturers with it's incredible retail power.
This isn't a joke, Walmarts effect on manufacturers is well documented.

Luckily Bike manufacturers have been smart enough so far to never sell their good stuff to anything but small bike shops. If they start (and walmart has started selling high end bikes in one store) it may all end in a matter of a decade.

Bikes can't survive in a "buy it as cheap as possible" market. And Walmart hasn't done anything but that in the last 15 years.

Bikes can't survive in a "buy it as cheap as possible" market. And Walmart hasn't done anything but that in the last 15 years.

So how does one change this mindset?

About a year ago, a friend told me he wanted to start cycling, but because he didn't know if he'd like it, he wanted to buy a Wal-Mart or Canadian Tire bike rather than sink a lot of money into a decent bike. I knew he'd be disappointed so I looked around and found him a well-built used mountain bike, 20 to 25 years old. He has enjoyed it immensely. If he hadn't listened to me and let me find him a bike, he probably would have ridden a poor quality bike for a few months and then given up.

So how does one change this mindset?

About a year ago, a friend told me he wanted to start cycling, but because he didn't know if he'd like it, he wanted to buy a Wal-Mart or Canadian Tire bike rather than sink a lot of money into a decent bike. I knew he'd be disappointed so I looked around and found him a well-built used mountain bike, 20 to 25 years old. He has enjoyed it immensely. If he hadn't listened to me and let me find him a bike, he probably would have ridden a poor quality bike for a few months and then given up.

Maybe, maybe not. I started riding on a USED Walmart-type bike. It only made me want to get a better bike, not give up. We hate these cheap bikes because we know and love bikes, and we have a certain income level that allows us to spend more on a bike. But for many people--most, really--the only choice is between Walmart and nothing.

or used.

or used.

Yeah, but a lot of people who don't know much about bikes don't know enough to select a decent used bike. The real problem is that Trek (to pick on just one manufacturer) doesn't make a serviceable bike for $150, and even if they did there wouldn't be anyplace to sell them.

Yeah, but a lot of people who don't know much about bikes don't know enough to select a decent used bike. The real problem is that Trek (to pick on just one manufacturer) doesn't make a serviceable bike for $150, and even if they did there wouldn't be anyplace to sell them.

I've seen a basic but serviceable mountain bike at one local bike shop retailing for $320. It was discounted from that price at the end of the season. An adult bike at a department store is in the neighbourhood of $200 or more. The extra $100 or less would buy a much better bike, quality construction and plenty of service.

I've seen a basic but serviceable mountain bike at one local bike shop retailing for $320. It was discounted from that price at the end of the season. An adult bike at a department store is in the neighbourhood of $200 or more. The extra $100 or less would buy a much better bike, quality construction and plenty of service.

I know we're talking about two different countries here, but a new faux-mountain bike at Walmart, Kmart or Target might be only $100, and I saw them before Christmas at Kmart for $79. I totally agree that the LBS bike would be a better value if you had the additional cash. And personally, since I know something about bikes, I would (and do) go with used bikes for good value. I often see decent used bikes that are cheaper than the Walmart bikes, and for the price of the LBS cheapo you can get a beautiful ride.

So how does one change this mindset?

About a year ago, a friend told me he wanted to start cycling, but because he didn't know if he'd like it, he wanted to buy a Wal-Mart or Canadian Tire bike rather than sink a lot of money into a decent bike. I knew he'd be disappointed so I looked around and found him a well-built used mountain bike, 20 to 25 years old. He has enjoyed it immensely. If he hadn't listened to me and let me find him a bike, he probably would have ridden a poor quality bike for a few months and then given up.

I have wondered about that too...buy example (pun intended)? I have vowed never to set foot in a Walmart again, and before I make any purchase to see if I can locate the particular product that I am looking for made somewhere besides China or any other country that has questionable working conditions. It is very difficult. Everyday I see what used to be an old line European or North American manufacturer's product now being produced in China. I also find out that quite often the manufacturer is out of business and it is only the name that is being sold, usually by a holding company that could care less about the quality of the product they are selling just the money they are making of the name. [/rant off]

I needed a new pair of metatarsal work boots. WM doesn't carry those, so that part was easy. Did a bit of research and found that the Weinbrenner shoe company in Wisconsin still makes them in the USofA. The price for a very well made pair of boots from them was only $30 more than the Chinese made Leheighs (formerly made in the USofA). We are talking the difference between $125 and a $155 pair of boots. Also come to find out the Weinbrenners can be resoled the Leheighs cannot.

We have raised an entire generation or more that only cares about price and not value or quality. I think the only way it can ever turn around is if they are forced to change, either by stopping/slowing wholesale imports, the economy collapses, or energy costs become so high that people stop buying stuff all together and only buy durable products.

Aaron:)

[....]

We have raised an entire generation or more that only cares about price and not value or quality. I think the only way it can ever turn around is if they are forced to change, either by stopping/slowing wholesale imports, the economy collapses, or energy costs become so high that people stop buying stuff all together and only buy durable products.

Aaron:)

Or the dollar becomes so weak that imports are much more expensive. Or we require foreign manufacturers to meet our regulations for wages, working conditions and pollution.

This subject gets discussed with some regularity on these boards. As a longtime urban commuter, I can say that the vast majority of bikes I've seen on the roads in years past have been of the wall/k mart/ target variety. I've even known a rider or two who has made them work for themselves for long periods. There's a very serious rider in my neighbourhood who rides a Magna (and he's serious because he rides every damn day, irregardless of weather). In the last couple years, as bikes have become "hip" amoung the art-school crowd and viewed with some favour as transport by a few neighbours, I've seen a lot more bike shop models.

A couple of points: a bike store bike is no sure sign of quality. I've fixed more than one of these bikes that were improperly assembled. IME, machine built wheels are going to go out of true a lot quicker than a good hand built set, no matter where the bike they are on came from (so I build my own). The last bike I bought from a bike shop, the crank, seatpost, and handlebars all broke in the first six months of riding. Frame eventually bent under the titanic use of ten mile daily ride. It was a nightmare bike. Bike shop wrenches often miss the obvious and fail to repair basic problems, and seriously over-estimate the cost. I can regale you with an incredible list of personal experiences, if you like.

When buying used, you're often sacrificing returnability. If you buy a bike off CL and it's broken, the seller may just say "as-is" and walk off when you ask for a refund (one local CL dealer sold a cracked frame and used this tactic). You can at least return a wall mart ride. This is an issue for many folks when buying. It's understandable.

Frankly, if you're just buying a bike to tool around a local park or ride to the corner store/coffee shop, I'd say a Wall-mart bike can serve. I'd give the buyer of such a bike the same advice I'd give anyone buying an LBS ride: learn to wrench it; it isn't hard or difficult and the bike will serve you better.

Would I ride one? No. I'm a bike snob; I own an Eisentruat, a Schwinn Paramount, an AD Vent Noir, an early Trek, A Surly Karate Monkey, a fleet of old Frenchies, and a crapload of other bikes. My GF wanted a neighbourhood bike and I found her a 1973 Raleigh Sports 3 speed, about the most bombproof and cool thing you can ride to the coffee shop. I got a matching one: 25$ for the pair, and they rock. However, when I look at an old bike I can a) assess the condition, and b) fix whatever is wrong.

Maybe, maybe not. I started riding on a USED Walmart-type bike. It only made me want to get a better bike, not give up. We hate these cheap bikes because we know and love bikes, and we have a certain income level that allows us to spend more on a bike. But for many people--most, really--the only choice is between Walmart and nothing.

My first 10 speed was a Royce Union from Zayre. The equivalent of a WalMart bike. It was bought in 11th grade. All the screws stripped within 6 months. And being a teen, I left it unlocked one time outside the grocery store when I went in to buy something. But it taught me what I needed to know when I bought my first Peugeot after I went off to the University.

My first bike was from Sears; the second was from Montgomery Ward. The Sears bike was one of those late '60s early '70s with a banana seat, butterfly handlebars, and a gearshift shaped like one on a car; it was a 5-speed derailer. I rode that to school and to friends' houses from fifth through seventh grade, by which time I outgrew it. I the Ward's bike was a three-speed hub gear made in imitation of an English Racer. I rode that through HS and college and for a couple of years after that. I then sold it when I made a cross-country move and couldn't take it with me and I didn't cycle for a long time after that, indeed not until I was in my early 40s and developed type II diabetes, when I took it up again first for exercise, and then for transportation.

However, both Sears and Wards had service departments; Wal-Mart, Target, K-Mart, Dicks Sporting Goods, etc. do not.

But for many people--most, really--the only choice is between Walmart and nothing.

....like me. :(

or used.

Most every LBS has used bikes on consignment sitting out front. The "Walmart or Nothing" axiom never held true for me when I was poor as dirt, and there are always cost-effective alternatives to buying crap.

Most every LBS has used bikes on consignment sitting out front. The "Walmart or Nothing" axiom never held true for me when I was poor as dirt, and there are always cost-effective alternatives to buying crap.

BINGO!! Problem is too many people want shiny new stuff (even crappy stuff is better than no stuff:eek: ). I spent most of my growing up years living on hand me downs (and that is rough when you are the oldest) It used to get to me, but not anymore. I don't really know when it hit home, perhaps when my first wife ran amuck with the checkbook and it cost me several years' salary to break free? My purchases now are done with much thought and reflection as to whether I really need them, or is it going to do a much better job than the one I have now. As a general rule I have found people abandoned perfectly good things in search for something they think is better. I take advantage of that and purchase their whatever at a small fraction of the price of a new one. I love the people that want to throw out those ugly old cast iron skillet that grandma had...seen the prices on new pieces of Lodge Cast Iron recently;):D Last week I picked up 2 nicely seasoned skillets and a dutch oven for $3...those pieces are worth over $100 if you have to purchase them new...now to convince the bride that I can spend the "saved" money on some more bicycle parts:p

Aaron:)

Maybe, maybe not. I started riding on a USED Walmart-type bike. It only made me want to get a better bike, not give up. We hate these cheap bikes because we know and love bikes, and we have a certain income level that allows us to spend more on a bike. But for many people--most, really--the only choice is between Walmart and nothing.

A $100 Wal-Mart bike won't last 5,000 miles without repairs the typical user can't perform (bearing oiling and replacement).

A $500 LBS bike will last 30,000 miles-ish with repairs the average user can pay to have done for less than the cost of the bike.

The LBS bike MIGHT work out to be slightly more expensive. ($500*2 = $1000; $100*6 = $600). But it's over the course of 10+ years for the typical individual: It's an after-thought for the impoverished. Less than their cable, less than their phone bill, a LOT less than their car (although if they replaced that the bike gets more expensive).

For people who buy a bike to ride it 200 miles and give it up, or take 5 years to put in 200 miles, a $100 bike at wal-mart is fine.

A $100 Wal-Mart bike won't last 5,000 miles without repairs the typical user can't perform (bearing oiling and replacement).

A $500 LBS bike will last 30,000 miles-ish with repairs the average user can pay to have done for less than the cost of the bike.

The LBS bike MIGHT work out to be slightly more expensive. ($500*2 = $1000; $100*6 = $600). But it's over the course of 10+ years for the typical individual: It's an after-thought for the impoverished. Less than their cable, less than their phone bill, a LOT less than their car (although if they replaced that the bike gets more expensive).

For people who buy a bike to ride it 200 miles and give it up, or take 5 years to put in 200 miles, a $100 bike at wal-mart is fine.

I think those numbers are skewed...but it may depend on the type of bike you purchase and your riding style. I dug back in some of my daily journals from 20+ years ago:eek: I was car free/light from 1982-1997. The bulk of my commuting/general transportation was done on a used 1972 Raleigh Sports 3 speed that I purchased for $25 from a pawn shop in 1982. That bike never saw the inside of an LBS. But! according to my records I was averaging a set of tires a year, maybe 2-3 tubes and a set of brake pads. Chain appears to have been replaced ever 3rd year or so. At the time that bike was being ridden between 3500 and 5000 miles a year. The bearings were repacked every year in the spring after the winter riding season.

IMHO if someone plans to ride a bike with any frequency at all they need to learn basic maintenance and flat tire repairs. Also purchasing a bike that is easy to maintain is a plus (the simpler the better). I realize that this may not occur to someone at first, but I equate it with not knowing how to put gas in or check oil on a car.

Aaron:)

Most every LBS has used bikes on consignment sitting out front. The "Walmart or Nothing" axiom never held true for me when I was poor as dirt, and there are always cost-effective alternatives to buying crap.


Our LBS doesn't sell used bikes.