I'm going to post this in the retailer subforum as well.

This is about our purchase of a Co-Motion Periscope 700 tandem. It was a tough and frustrating experience, but ultimately the Outfitter was able to make me happy. Here's the story.

The saga started back in October, when I finally got the green light to put an order in for the tandem I've always wanted for us to own and ride. The test ride went very well, and the Doctor Missus was convinced she wanted one. I called the Outfitter and got the ball rolling. However, the first red flag came up as the sales guy asked that a 50% deposit was required for the order (he had initially told us that there was no deposit required on the day of the test ride). I said, fine, here's my card, charge it you %@#$^%. :mad: He estimated that the frame should be in mid December.

Fast forward to Holiday season 2007. We stayed in touch throughout the 2 months in between, to get componentry correctly, and whatnot. They said they'd been having no problems getting all the components up till Dec 15. Two weeks before Dec 21 it was confirmed to be ready for delivery on the 21st, and I told myself, perfect, a Christmas present! There was also a hangup about the wheels because apparently they had ordered the wrong wheels (they had a Shimano hub body, not Campagnolo as I had ordered). This was still a Co-Motion issue and it was to be resolved prior to shipping it to the shop. Co-Motion was taking care of the frameset and wheels. The shop had the rest of the components. We stayed in touch almost every other day after that. A week before delivery, I was informed that the frame was ready to ship. The Wednesday before the due date, I spoke to the sales guy again (different guy from the one that sold the bike to us) and he informed me that the frameset still had not arrived!! :eek::eek: I asked him again, whether it would be ready for Friday, and he said yes, if the frame arrives later that day, it would be built by Friday. Thursday rolls around, then Friday, no frame, no phone call from the Outfitter. I called them again Friday, but this time he said that even if he received the frame, they wouldn't get to work on it until after Christmas!! :mad:

I should stop here and say that the sales team was not in communication (as I found out much later) with the manager, which is why Co-Motion hadn't overnighted the frameset to the shop. I would have paid the extra shipping to get it there on time.

So we got to miss an awesome weekend of great weather here in the Bay Area during the Christmas break. We had made a few plans to go riding that weekend, and I had promised my wife that it was going to be great! :(

The frame finally arrives Wednesday after Christmas (great timing). By now I'm pretty disappointed and angry that I was promised a date and they completely missed it. In addition, their cavalier attitude about not even attempting to get it there on time really added to my frustration. I believe that they could have had Co-Motion overnight the frame after it was built, and have the tandem built by Friday the 21st because the frameset was ready a week before the delivery date.

On time delivery is something that my company struggles with every day. We are pressured to perform to the date of shipping. I don't see this any differently.

Once the frame was there, the wheels were still wrong, the tyres were wrong, and the saddles were wrong. I won't go into the details, but suffice it to say that they've had 2 months to get the order right, and they didn't. I had personally verified that they had ordered the right components 3 times during those 2 months as well. :rolleyes:

But I must credit them the fact that as soon as they received the frame, the bike was built within 2 days and they delivered it on the 28th, a week late. I realize that a week is nothing in the world of bicycle ordering, but a week is still a week. The industry really needs to get their heads out of their @#%$# and keep their promises, or pay for breaking them. The night of the delivery, I got involved in a heated discussion with the manager about the deal, and finding out that he knew nothing of it, and that this was the first time he had heard of me. :eek: :mad: I told him that I wasn't happy, and that this deal was a huge disappointment because of the critical delivery date (Christmas). Also, the fact that the deal wasn't inexpensive (total came to be almost $4200 after tax), I would expect better from them.

Perhaps this was chump change for their shop and they didn't feel the need to service me as well as someone who would, maybe, spend $10000 on a bike there. Hey, it's Los Altos, I wouldn't put it past them. :rolleyes:

As delivered, the bike had the wrong tyres and saddles. They fixed the wheels overnight, which showed the efficiency that the shop is capable of. I can't understand why they didn't do this for the rest of the bike??? :fight: I let the saddles stay on (they're Brooks B17 Standard, I ordered the Specials). And placed an order in for the tyres (Schwalbe Marathon 700x28). The tyres they installed on the bike, for now, were piece of crap Contis that blew out within 3 miles of home and couldn't get repaired. I eventually replaced them with Vredesteins.

A week later, the manager calls and informs me that he is willing to place a $450 credit on my account at the shop, store credit. I think that this is acceptable, and ultimately, places my anger at ease. My biggest beef was that certain shops don't seem to care for their customers. I had come from an extremely good experience at my LBS (Eden Bicycles in Castro Valley), where they went out of their way to make me happy. They still have my business, and I go there for almost every bicycle need. I was shocked that the Outfitter seemed so uncaring and unwilling to help me make this tandem a Christmas present for my wife. But it all boiled down to miscommunication between management and production; the manager was the ultimate authority where shipping was concerned, and he knew nothing of the deal.

I think that even if they had given me back $450 on my credit card, I would have gone back and did more business with them anyway, because I feel that they really did try their best (albeit a little late) after getting the frameset. I am happy about the deal overall, and the bike rides very well. We will be going back for a bike rack for the car, and maybe a trailer or a pannier rack later down the road.

http://teamalameda.com/forums/uploads/1198893980/gallery_26_27_396015.jpg

Most importantly: Cool bike! Congratulations. You'll be enjoying the bike long after being pi44ed off has passed.
Also, plus points for trying to be fair in your writeup.

That said: They were a pain, and didn't hit the date. But they didn't actually cost you money, and they offered you a large store credit. They seem like they are trying to do the right thing, even though they clearly screwed up badly.
At least you have that money to " test" whether they've mended their ways before you spend your own $ there.
BTW, I think I might have walked away after their "no deposit" turned into "50%"
That seems like a sign that they either lie, are totally disorganized, or just run without a clue.

Bicycle Outfitter used to be a great shop, until it was bought out by Palo Alto Bicycles.

IMO, PA Bicyles seems to pretty much cater to the uber snobby racer-boy/girl set, and Outfitters is trying to following suit. bleah. I've had just one instance lately where they haven't followed thru for me, and although it was a very minor matter, it was enough to make me decide it wasn't worth taking my business to them anymore.

That said, great bike!! May you and your wife have many happy miles with it.

jobob I agree completely w/r/t PA Bicycles. What does it say about a bike shop where the employees (en masse, in the wrench area) feel the need to mock/belittle other establishments in response to an honest question? That's just low class.

sweetnsour I am glad your bike ended up the way you wanted it and I'm sorry it took so much angst to get there. Out of curiousity, why B.O.? Are they the only co-motion dealer in town or something?

There seems to be no choice in the South Bay for bike shops. We have Bicycle Outfitters (bad experience as noted in this thread), Chain Reaction (won't service any bikes not purchased there), PA (snob appeal). Maybe I'll have to check out Cupertino Bike Shop, but they're not open on Sundays, and not open late on weekdays.

Oh, another comment on Bicycle Outfitters. I inquired about VDO, which is a very popular bike computer among double century riders. However, they said they don't carry it, and the guy said "there is no interest in that product".

It's stories like these that make the internet so appealing. You get the low price, and because you don't expect service, you aren't unhappy.
I buy something from my LBS whenever I go in, even if it's a tube or chain lube.
But what I really like is buying online where nothing is out of stock and I get the color I want.
I also have a very high quality mobile bike repair guy in the area-- The Wheel Pedaler -- who comes to where ever you are and does great work at a very reasonable price. You all may see his Van at local events. He's at the Fremont races today.

We chose B.O. because of their reputation and history. However, I had forgotten about the PA Bikes acquisition, and how the owners had chosen to do their touring business full time. I guess, in a way, I was hoping that they had retained the old shop's ways, but I guess I was wrong.

In any case, they did a good job bandaging the situation and we're happy bikers. :D

There seems to be no choice in the South Bay for bike shops. We have Bicycle Outfitters (bad experience as noted in this thread), Chain Reaction (won't service any bikes not purchased there), PA (snob appeal). Maybe I'll have to check out Cupertino Bike Shop, but they're not open on Sundays, and not open late on weekdays.

Oh, another comment on Bicycle Outfitters. I inquired about VDO, which is a very popular bike computer among double century riders. However, they said they don't carry it, and the guy said "there is no interest in that product".

What about Wheel Away, I had very good experience with it. As for computer, well maybe there truely isn't any interest in that particular one. There is just so much inventory they can carry. Double century isn't really a very common activity.

What about Wheel Away, I had very good experience with it. As for computer, well maybe there truely isn't any interest in that particular one. There is just so much inventory they can carry. Double century isn't really a very common activity.

I haven't heard of Wheel Away. But it's also closed on Sunday.

VDO is one of the most popular computers with an altimeter. Anyhow, that experience led me to not shop there.

Boy, Ron, you're one picky shopper!...not open Sundays, not open late on weekdays...don't carry VDO computers...won't kiss my feet the second it crosses their threshold...:p

All kidding aside, there's the aforementioned Wheel Away Cycle Ctr in Campbell, Slough's Bike Shoppe, Cupertino Bike, and Bici Bike for starters. True they're not all gonna be open Sunday, or stay open late, or know a boob tube from a You tube, but, sometimes you just have to pick your battles. *

*or shop at Performance...

Hey Ron, how about Calmar on El Camino in Santa Clara? I've heard they have really good service ... but it's mostly a Trek dealer. They do open on Sundays though.

Hey Ron, how about Calmar on El Camino in Santa Clara? I've heard they have really good service ... but it's mostly a Trek dealer. They do open on Sundays though.

Ah yes, Calmar. Forgot about them. Also a good shop in my opinion. They handled warranty on my Ritchey Wheel, even thought I didn't buy it from them, at no charge.

Ah yes, Calmar. Forgot about them. Also a good shop in my opinion. They handled warranty on my Ritchey Wheel, even thought I didn't buy it from them, at no charge.

Only thing is they don't do much in terms of road bikes. They do mostly mountain biking.

Cupertino Bikes is a great shop. Very informative and knowledgable staff, huge inventory. They have alot of classics as well. They are also a sponsor of our team.

Chain Reaction (won't service any bikes not purchased there),

This is not true. When they have a big backlog in their service department they put this rule into effect; but that's really good customer service in my opinion, and it only happens a couple times a year.

Nobody's mentioned Shaw's lightweight cycles in Santa Clara yet.

There's also Willow Glen Cycles in San Jose, a very nice shop.

Mr Fly - There was a big thread about "best of the bay area bike shops" a while back. most of the "these guys are good" comments about shaws, cup, willow glen, etc were in there. This is Sesame's thread..

Mods - Maybe we could get that stickied?
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=265148

When I go to BO I usually see if JD is there as he has always been cool to me. I wish I could say the same for some of the other staff. The prices there are not especially stellar however.

There is Mike's Bikes over in the Palo Alto area in El Camino. I've purchased a couple of bikes there and I've been very happy with both purchases and their service.

I've dealt with JD at BO. Coincidentally, he was the one who got my order back on track during the 2 month hiatus....

As I was waiting for them to call me back to confirm that all the components were the right ones, I began to grow worried because I hadn't heard from them in almost a month (mid Nov). I spoke with Chris at Eden Bicycles about it, who knows JD because JD is a Time rep and deals with Chris a lot. He referred me to JD. For about a period of a week, I dealt with both JD and another guy and got everything set and ordered (correctly, I thought, anyway).

I've never met JD in person, but he seemed to be a very good guy to deal with.

There is Mike's Bikes over in the Palo Alto area in El Camino. I've purchased a couple of bikes there and I've been very happy with both purchases and their service.

Yeah, I'd be very careful with Mike's. I've had some pretty good experiences -OK, ONE good experience (and it was REALLY good) with them and I've had some pretty bad ones. The bad have been worse than the good ones, good. One thing is if they do screw something up, they take no responsibility for it. I actually had to threaten the SF store with a small claims suit to get them to replace a wheel magnet they lost when they didn't rebuild my wheels. A wheel magnet? Pretty darn petty. And I swear the Palo Alto store can smell a zip code and if yours ain't the right one, don't expect sterling sales service.

But I try to remember the joy I felt when I bought my two bikes from them (the joy being fully related to the bikes themselvesdand not necessarily anything Mike's had to add... or not). Needless to say, the third bike will be coming from someone else.

The only time I shop at Mike's Bikes is to use the 20% off coupon (for any item under $100) and to get a free water bottle:

http://mikesbikes.com/page.cfm?pageID=231

Thanks for the tip! :D

I had a good experience with Mikes Bikes. After I had my litespeed a couple of weeks, the next model above was discounted to less than I paid for the lower model. Mikes Bikes refunded me the percentage discount on the higher model.........but this was probably because my crank fell-off due to poor Mikes Bikes assembly! No-ones mentioned VeloTech in Palo Alto. I could easily max the credit card out in that shop.

No-ones mentioned VeloTech in Palo Alto. I could easily max the credit card out in that shop.

Their mechanic is the best.