Advocacy & Safety - Protected right turn lanes and “T” intersections

Neither are that common on my usual ride, but they do offer quite a bit of annoyance sometimes. I’ll start with the T intersection.

About 2 miles from where I live is a nice long stretch of road parallel to a highway with a designated bike lane. Because it’s right next to the highway, the only cars that travel on it (which are very very few) are usually residents of the few side streets along it. At two points along the road are 3 way stop T-intersections (they look exactly like this: http://www.trans.gov.ab.ca/Content/doctype45/images/18l.jpg and we’re on the right side that doesn’t have the intersecting road) While certainly not too time consuming to stop and whatnot, it definitely kills my pace since they both come at points where I’m averaging 25-30mph. Aside from Sunday’s (when part of the road is closed for cyclists, roller bladders, etc.) I rarely see cyclists make an attempt to stop. I used to check to see if there was a car coming from the side and blow past it if there wasn’t any. That of course was before a lovely $106 ticket given to me by some county officers (luckily the ticket was never pursued by the juvenile traffic court) but hey, I learned my lesson so something obviously went right. Now I’m somewhat falling back into bad habits and slowing down to maybe 5mph to check if there is a car and then continuing. With the bike lane being there, it would seem to be safe to ride through it, but I don’t think I’ll fully chance it yet. Anyone else have any experience dealing with these types of intersections?

The protected right turn lane isn’t really too bad, but sometimes can be annoying. On Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays I get out of school early (dropped P.E. so I could ride instead). I usually get home, have a snack and head out within 45 minutes of getting home. Conveniently I ride past a high school right about the time school lets out. The school is right on the side of a pretty busy and speedy road (45 or 50mph I believe) but has a 35mph limit near the school. Luckily for me, there is a decent slope right before the school and I can maintain a 35mph average until I reach the stoplight (A shame cars don’t heed the posted speed limit or I could take the lane) . However, there is a protected right turn lane going into one of the schools parking lots. Since school is just getting out, I get the enjoyable combination of mother’s driving SUVs, reckless teen drivers, and cell phone bearing fools all around. Since I can’t take the lane without a large chance of getting hit, I usually ride on the far left side of the protected right lane but far enough away from the other lane so as to avoid getting side swiped. Occasionally there are drivers that only enter the right turn lane perhaps 20 feet before turning and end up cutting me off, but nothing has been too bad so far. I can’t really decide if I want to chance getting hit from behind by a speeding car in the “straight” lane, or if I want to chance getting side swiped by someone who can’t make up their mind when to turn. Any insight on either of these situations would definitely be helpful. Thanks for reading such a long and rambling post:D

Originally posted by BigFloppyLlama
About 2 miles from where I live is a nice long stretch of road parallel to a highway with a designated bike lane. Because it’s right next to the highway, the only cars that travel on it (which are very very few) are usually residents of the few side streets along it. At two points along the road are 3 way stop T-intersections (they look exactly like this: http://www.trans.gov.ab.ca/Content/doctype45/images/18l.jpg and we’re on the right side that doesn’t have the intersecting road)... With the bike lane being there, it would seem to be safe to ride through it, but I don’t think I’ll fully chance it yet. Anyone else have any experience dealing with these types of intersections?

Firstly, the idea of a 3-way stop at a T intersection, to me, is fairly absurd. I've never seen one - I don't think they are even used here in Australia. For a higher level of control at such intersection, a traffic light seems a more logical choice.

That said, if you're looking at the intersection in the orientation shown on the diagram you posted, travelling from bottom to top there is zero chance of a car crossing your path. I'd slow and check for pedestrians, but would otherwise keep going. In the other direction, where cars are going to be crossing your path, definitely stop. If you choose not to stop, bear in mind that you are breaking the law. If you get caught, cop it sweet and pay the fine.


Originally posted by BigFloppyLlama
Since I can’t take the lane without a large chance of getting hit, I usually ride on the far left side of the protected right lane but far enough away from the other lane so as to avoid getting side swiped. Occasionally there are drivers that only enter the right turn lane perhaps 20 feet before turning and end up cutting me off, but nothing has been too bad so far. I can’t really decide if I want to chance getting hit from behind by a speeding car in the “straight” lane, or if I want to chance getting side swiped by someone who can’t make up their mind when to turn. Any insight on either of these situations would definitely be helpful. Thanks for reading such a long and rambling post:D

As a rule of thumb, I take the same lane I'd take if I were driving a car. ie. only use the right turn only lane if you're actually turning right. Move into the through lane, after a shoulder check and signal of course. In practice I ride virtually on the dividing line, usually in the extreme outside of the turning lane to give through traffic room to pass, but if I see a car approaching in the turning lane I'll move to the other side of the line.

It sounds to me like you are doing this already.

There is no more reason you'd get hit riding there than there would be in any other lane. You will probably get people that can't get past the mind set of passing you on the inside and will cut across your path, but you'd get far more of that if you try and go straight through from the kerb side of the right turn only lane.

When there is a R turn lane you should get out into the straight through lane to give turning cars enough room to get into the R turn lane. Getting hit from behind is a problem that only exists in peoples imaginations.

Originally posted by AndrewP
When there is a R turn lane you should get out into the straight through lane to give turning cars enough room to get into the R turn lane.

I concur.


Getting hit from behind is a problem that only exists in peoples imaginations.

Unfortunately, cyclists do occasionally get hit from behind, with generally dire consequences. Two years ago, the San Diego bicycling community lost a valued senior member in this type of mishap. However, the spirit of your statement is correct, in the sense that one's chance of getting struck from behind is significantly smaller than the danger from being right-hooked, sideswiped, or crossed by a left-turning vehicle.

Depending on the laws in your state, you are likely entitled to the full lane if you're doing the speed limit. If you're going down that hill @ 35mph, move towards the center of the lane. You are considered a vehicle and, if doing the speed limit, there is no way a cop could cite you for impeding traffic. As for motorists speeding, they don't have that right, so your presence in the middle of lane should not be construed as anything other than "annoying" (when in reality, you might be keeping them from getting a ticket). If they don't like it, tough. If they try to ride your tail, get their license plate # and report them to the police, just like you would in a car. To be honest, if you're doing 35, I'll bet they'll be somewhat impressed and give you room, but remember to slide over when you can't keep that speed (or close to it). I actually ride about 2 feet out into the lane to force cars to go *around* me instead of trying to squeak by. Much less stressful.

As for the T-intersection, if there's a bike lane and no stop line has been painted across it, I think you can go through the sign if you're in that lane?

BFL,

Regarding your first question: Don't do it!

You are certainly asking for another ticket. I know exactly where you are talking about. The local constabulary (at least on weekends) constantly monitor those two intersections. You need to at least slow down and coast through them. If you just continue to pedal through the intersection you will be ticketed.

Steve "Got a Ticket in Woodside" E

Regarding the T, I do think a lot of cyclists use "situational ethics" when crossing a T, but certainly knowing there's a history of ticketing at a particular location should influence your decision.

The second situation is clearer: you should take the lane, especially if you're riding at or near the speed limit anyway. But even if you're not, you have a right to be there if it's the safest place to be, in your judgement.

These are exactly the situations where mirrors are most useful. A glasses- or helmet-mount mirror can let you take quick glances at what's coming up behind without distracting you for too long from the cars and road ahead of you. They're excellent for merging left into the traffic flow safely. Don't forget to signal if you do have to move in front of someone.

Sure, you'll occasionally get someone honking at you because you made them slow down a little. Just raise you hand to acknowledge that you know they're there, and hold your line until it's safe to move back to the right. If a train of cars starts forming up behind you, it would be courteous (and legally required in some places) to move over and let them pass).

Personally, I find that drivers seem a lot more tolerant and patient If I stand up while I'm in front of traffic that wants to move faster. I guess it makes it look more like I'm working as hard as I can, and they're satisfied with that.

RichC

Originally posted by SteveE
BFL,

Regarding your first question: Don't do it!

You are certainly asking for another ticket. I know exactly where you are talking about. The local constabulary (at least on weekends) constantly monitor those two intersections. You need to at least slow down and coast through them. If you just continue to pedal through the intersection you will be ticketed.

Steve "Got a Ticket in Woodside" E

I saw the same two guys (James and Scott:p) that got me the other day handing around near the intersection. Apparently the county is trying to take the resident’s complains a little more serious. I'll think I'll take your advice and just do a complete stop. 5 seconds isn't really worth the possibility of an expensive ticket. Do you know what most officers consider stopping though? I've called the local office and they said that as long as I could remain stopped or nearly stopped (under 1mph) for three seconds there shouldn't be a problem. However, my friend has been warned that one must put his foot down for the full three seconds.

BFL,

I got my ticket at Alpine & Portola (coming up Alpine, turning right on Portola) from Officer Jones. He told me that a complete stop was not necessary but that I had to come to almost a complete stop and not be pedaling through the stop sign. Unfortunately, I guess it depends on which officer nabs you.

SteveE

P.S. I've always wondered what the cops do if they catch the Sat. AM Spectrum ride (at least 150 strong) running the stop sign? Do think just get the guy at the back of the bunch? Kinda' linke culling the herd?

I’ve heard about this spectrum ride before. Is there a site with any more information regarding the route, riders, etc. I could look at? I’ve seen them a few times I think but thought it was a club ride.

The Spectrum ride starts out at Foothill & Homestead Rds in Los Altos. I wouldn't recommend doing this ride if you are not an experienced racer. It would be better to start out with a racing club like Alto Velo. The "B" ride meets at the Los Altos Peet's every Saturday at 9am with a 9:15am roll out time. The rides are usually around 45-55 miles. A typical ride goes up Foothill to Old Page Mill and out to Portola and Woodside. We might do Old La Honda (OLH) or Kings. Check out the AV Ride Calendar (http://www.altovelo.org). Since racing season has ended the ride pace will probably slow down a bit while everyone concentrates on doing their LSD training.

Originally posted by SteveE
He told me that a complete stop was not necessary but that I had to come to almost a complete stop and not be pedaling through the stop sign.

How is it possible to almost come to a stop, and yet not pedal through the stop sign? The only way I know of changing from a stop, a complete one or otherwise, to any other state besides walking, is by pedaling.

Originally posted by Allister
How is it possible to almost come to a stop, and yet not pedal through the stop sign? The only way I know of changing from a stop, a complete one or otherwise, to any other state besides walking, is by pedaling.
I think what the officer meant by that statement was that the cyclist must come to nearly a full stop (not pedaling), check the intersection and continue through (via pedaling, of course) rather than slowing down a bit and pedaling right through the intersection without coming to nearly a full stop. MY interpetation is that I need to come up to the intersection, quit pedaling, slow down to about walking speed, look around for any traffic, and continue on without coming to a complete and utter stop.

P.S. Both of these intersections are on a slight downhill, so you could get by just coasting through after slowing down.