"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Frustrated.

After talking to a variety of different racers on my team, from CatIV's all the way up to CatII's, I've come to the conclusion that training philosophies vary as much as opinions. Which leaves me frustrated. Do I want to keep building base right now, doing easy Zone2/3 riding? What about periodization? Or what about saying "**** it" to all of that and just ride how I feel like it? Why not do a little of everything over a 4-week period? Arrrgh.

And then, I tell myself that since I'm just a CatV, I should just focus on riding and enjoying my remaining 6 starts before I become a IV. Then I can figure out what to do for a training program.

/rant off.

After talking to a variety of different racers on my team, from CatIV's all the way up to CatII's, I've come to the conclusion that training philosophies vary as much as opinions. Which leaves me frustrated. Do I want to keep building base right now, doing easy Zone2/3 riding? What about periodization? Or what about saying "**** it" to all of that and just ride how I feel like it? Why not do a little of everything over a 4-week period? Arrrgh.

And then, I tell myself that since I'm just a CatV, I should just focus on riding and enjoying my remaining 6 starts before I become a IV. Then I can figure out what to do for a training program.

/rant off.

duh.

Is the purpose of this thread to identify more opinions? Figure out what you believe and go with it.

Is the purpose of this thread to identify more opinions?

That's one of the objectives, yes.

See, this is why I hate winter. Crappy road conditions lead to too much time indoors, which in turn causes frivolous worrying and trains of thought without destinations.

I'm cat 4 but I don't really like racing. I like group/team rides better. I guess I'm poosy like that.

It's never too early to start training effectively. Determine what you want to do (race year round/peak for various events/train consistently/sporadically/how much time you are willing to devote) then devise a plan around that. You don't need a training plan yet, but perhaps you should be getting an idea of what your goals are?

I'm a total believer in whatever Andy Coggan says. So join up with the Wattage email list and get all geeky in your training approach.

That's one of the objectives, yes.

See, this is why I hate winter. Crappy road conditions lead to too much time indoors, which in turn causes frivolous worrying and trains of thought without destinations.

You need a sun lamp for your SAD. [sorta j/k]

B, just have fun. When it's time to get more serious about that stuff, get a coach. Or, join TeamBBC... we have two coaches as of this year! One coach preps the training schedules (one for advanced and one for beginner, dependent on your aerobic fitness and experience) and the other is for conditioning and tactics.

They are brand new, so don't ask me my opinion of them. I wouldn't be able to give you an informed answer.

I'm a believer in smart training but I'm a bigger believer in enjoying bike racing and knowing and being able to execute good tactics and bike handling.

Amateur bike racing isn't about being a super fit robot without any real world experience.

I'd say continue training, do group rides once a week and race as often as possible. Once you accumulate some experience and decide you like the bike racing thing, then get more structured.

It's never too early to start training effectively. Determine what you want to do (race year round/peak for various events/train consistently/sporadically/how much time you are willing to devote) then devise a plan around that. You don't need a training plan yet, but perhaps you should be getting an idea of what your goals are?

incorrect.

I'm a believer in being in good form all year round - trying to peak for a race is just asking for a let-down. What if you get a flat? Or crash out? Or a teammate is in a break and you're stuck blocking? Too many variables that could lead to disappointment. I'd rather be in good form throughout the season and go for a win every single time I pin on a number.


It's never too early to start training effectively. Determine what you want to do (race year round/peak for various events/train consistently/sporadically/how much time you are willing to devote) then devise a plan around that. You don't need a training plan yet, but perhaps you should be getting an idea of what your goals are?

I can dedicate myself to riding 5 days a week at minimum, or around 10 hours a week. My goals for this season:
1) CatIV
2) Raise my FTP (it's at 239w right now)
3) One Top-20 finish

You should go with some sort of "structure", but it doesn't have to be so rigid that you're miserable. Maybe the structure is as simple as "go ride T,W,Th, and a group ride on the weekends and try to sprint for a few city limit signs on the group ride."

You'll probably get sufficient benefit from that without making it a chore.

I'm a believer in being in good form all year round - trying to peak for a race is just asking for a let-down. What if you get a flat? Or crash out? Or a teammate is in a break and you're stuck blocking? Too many variables that could lead to disappointment. I'd rather be in good form throughout the season and go for a win every single time I pin on a number.

dude, you're a cat 5. you've got to learn how to race, and not crash. that's what your main goal should be for the first part of the season.


I can dedicate myself to riding 5 days a week at minimum, or around 10 hours a week. My goals for this season:
1) CatIV
that's easy enough.


2) Raise my FTP (it's at 239w right now)
3) One Top-20 finish

if you can't finish at least once in the top 20, then there's not much point in racing. just saying.

trying to peak for a race is just asking for a let-down.
Welcome to the world of sports.

Averaging 10 hours minimum of training is really quite a bit if you are incorporating any kind of intensity at all.

I accumulated over 40 upgrade points in 4 months training about 10 hours average per week, maybe even less.

First thing to do is race lots and learn what kind of races you like, what racing you are good at and what you need to improve. After you've got some experience and know you like bike racing then it is time to focus on your weakness. For me it was FTP. I did gobs of work focused solely on that last winter and spring and then was able to reap the rewards once the racing started.

First off, you don't need much fitness to race 4/5. So don't get stressed about it.

However, I understand that you still want to train effectively and gain fitness.

I agree with whoever said that you can incorporate some minimal structure without planning out every ride in advance or making bike racing into a chore.

For instance, one of the few hard-fast rules that I actually follow in my training is that every fourth or fifth week there must be a rest period. Usually only 4 days or so, but enough to let my body recover.

Read more if you like, but as someone who reads way too much about exercise physiology (i.e. at least a quarter as much as Enthalpic) I will say that knowing the science behind training just isn't that important. Your body will get you 99% of the way there if you just ride hard and rest hard.

You dont need any fitness to go from 5 to 4. Long as you can START 10 times you can upgrade.

Thanks for all the replies, I know that I just need to start 6 more races to upgrade, but my drive for fitness goes beyond what category racer I am. I wanna go out there and be competitive, not just pack fodder (lofty goal?). Based on what the majority of people say, I think I'm going to shoot for a 5-10% increase in TSS each week with a rest week every 4th week. Aside from the overall objectives of gradually increasing TSS and resting every 4th week, the content of my other rides will be unplanned.

Personally, I'd focus on getting stronger, period, before I'd even consider "peaking", periodization or any of that.

Base training is for those who have arrived at a point where they are strong enough to do very well in there respective category; they are building a base to reach a higher peak for the upcoming season. If you're struggling in the lower categories, you haven't hit that level yet, and you need to reach a competitive level before you worry about being at your absolute highest fitness level.

I'm hoping to upgrade to the 1s this year, and I plan on doing 20hrs a week, damn near every week, with a 10-12 recovery week once a month. Just riding, not planning on peaking. I'd rather come in with good fitness, learn in the early part of the season this year and take 10th in a race, than get shelled early in the year, learn nothing, and maybe improve a few spots if and when I "peak".

Having plan with a peak or two doesn't mean that you won't try your best in races at other times, or that you'll be slow. It means that you'll be extra ready for the races that are important to you.

Top-20 finish in what kind of race? It makes a difference. Also, which race? Dr W's right, identify your goals. Go over the calendar, find a couple races that have courses you like or your girlfriend's going to come out to watch, and then work backwards so you do the work to get yourself ready for that course on that day. BTW "raise FTP" is an objective, not a goal, and it's a poor one at that. How do you know if you're done? Is 1 watt enough? 10? 30? "Raise FTP 20 watts by august" is a better way to put it.

Also, don't listen to the Internet bravado here. Setting goals that are too hard to achieve are a waste of time. If you've never finished in the top 40 of your favorite event or finished it at all, then top-20 may be a good goal for you. Goals are supposed to be a reach but attainable if you are dilligent and put in the work that you have committed to.


Friel's Training Bible book is a good template for figuring out your goals and the objectives you need to achieve to reach them, and setting up framework of a training plan.

Don't stress out so much on racing you hate riding...one of my friends and riding partners (extremely talented CAT2) did that, and now he's 30lbs heavier, and doesn't ride his bike, at all.

Fun first, stress second :)

Top-20 finish in what kind of race? It makes a difference. Also, which race?
Ideally, Jefferson Cup since it's my favorite race on the calendar. I feel like last year I definitely had the strength to win the race, but I didn't have the smarts. I pulled the pack around and got shelled at the end. I really didn't understand how much energy you save just by sitting in.


BTW "raise FTP" is an objective, not a goal, and it's a poor one at that. How do you know if you're done? Is 1 watt enough? 10? 30? "Raise FTP 20 watts by august" is a better way to put it.

I'm not sure what a reasonable goal is. I'm at 239w right now (67kg), but I have no idea how high I can go in a given timeframe.


Friel's Training Bible book is a good template for figuring out your goals and the objectives you need to achieve to reach them, and setting up framework of a training plan.

Got an ISBN?

Got an ISBN?

Only because it's literally right in my lap: 1-931382-21-2

Here is my suggestion for a beginner's training plan:

1. Pick a general training philosophy - be it Friel's or Coggan or whoever, but one that you can use to map out an entire season (I don't think Coggan/Hunter do this well in thier power book).
2. Pick a time to peak - not a specific race because, as you said you might be let down. More like, I want to peak for the month of June. Whatever time has a bunch of races that you'd like to target - you wont get a flat in all of them.
3. Map out a general plan based on 1 and 2 that gives you the type of training you want to focus on in a given tiime period. Mine looks something like - a bunch of tempo and sweet spot training in December. Ramp it up to add LT intervals in January, add in anaerobic intervals around Feb 1, and killer 1 min, 30 second/tabata intervals around Mid-march. I do some tempo and sprint training through the whole season.
4. Go out and do as many group rides as you can (without beating yourself into the ground). When there is a group ride ignore #1 - 3 and have fun whether that means going hard or easy, engaging in the sprints, leading them out, or sitting back and watching. You will gain more through knowledge and experience in group rides than you will through the increased fitness of a rigid training plan. Try to ride with a group at least 2 times/wk.
5. When there isn't a group ride available or you are too busy or the weather sucks, take a look at your plan you mapped out in #3. Factor in the intensity and type of riding you've been doing with the groups, and use it to decide on a workout. Don't try to map out rides more than about a week in advance.
6. Make sure you are recovering well between hard rides. This may be the most important point for a beginner.

My like to ride with slow people now and again so that I can feel fast but a race teaches you how outclassed you can be tactically with a good team, even with peak fitness.

Clearly recovery is a big part of training - everyone says your gains come not from hard workouts but from the recovery following/in between them. But honestly, I cannot possibly fathom riding an hour at 120-140 watts. Booooooooring (do I sound like a beginner racer yet?). What can I do to make recovery rides more interesting? Because honestly, right now, I just skip them.

Clearly recovery is a big part of training - everyone says your gains come not from hard workouts but from the recovery following/in between them. But honestly, I cannot possibly fathom riding an hour at 120-140 watts. Booooooooring (do I sound like a beginner racer yet?). What can I do to make recovery rides more interesting? Because honestly, right now, I just skip them.

Mountain bike.

Clearly recovery is a big part of training - everyone says your gains come not from hard workouts but from the recovery following/in between them. But honestly, I cannot possibly fathom riding an hour at 120-140 watts. Booooooooring (do I sound like a beginner racer yet?). What can I do to make recovery rides more interesting? Because honestly, right now, I just skip them.

here. i'll do you a favor, and save you some time: stop riding right now, and start eating chips and drinking beer. that's what i ened up doing when when i burnt myself out.

Clearly recovery is a big part of training - everyone says your gains come not from hard workouts but from the recovery following/in between them. But honestly, I cannot possibly fathom riding an hour at 120-140 watts. Booooooooring (do I sound like a beginner racer yet?). What can I do to make recovery rides more interesting? Because honestly, right now, I just skip them.

Ride with your girlfriend/wife/kid. Although if your wife is like mine she'll get back at you for every time you ever suggested on a ride that she could put a little more effort in: "what's the matter with you? why are you so slow? c'mon!"

I usually don't do them either. I'm busy outside cycling and have committed to X annual hours to train. I also live on the side of a mountain- there's no just going out for an easy spin, I have to drive to where it's flat first. While recovery rides get you to recover faster/better than doing nothing, I do ok just not doing anything physical on recovery days and using the time to work or do other stuff that gets in the way of cycling. It's not ideal though.

Clearly recovery is a big part of training - everyone says your gains come not from hard workouts but from the recovery following/in between them. But honestly, I cannot possibly fathom riding an hour at 120-140 watts. Booooooooring (do I sound like a beginner racer yet?). What can I do to make recovery rides more interesting? Because honestly, right now, I just skip them.

I'm sort of the same way, bdcheung. I don't like going that slow, but I've found that if I do a very long zone 2-3 ride on Saturday (100 miles with the DC Randonneurs), by Sunday, I'm ready for a zone 1 ride.

If you get bored of zone 1 rides, then follow botto's advice for your zone 1 day--chips and beer.

What is riding to you?
What is racing to your riding?
What else in life is more important?

Answer those questions and what resources (and results) you need to commit should be a little more clear. It's not about what works for other people and their priorities and resources, rather, yours.

hey bd... fwiw, as a beginner, here's what i've done:

1) read the 'training bible' and 'training and racing with a power meter' and got myself on a general plan of ramping up my TSS every week over 3 weeks with a 4th week of rest.
2) planned some kind of peak for a couple races of the season. you're right that this does set myself up for some kind of disappointment, but such is the nature of sports and life, no? just because i'm peaking for a particular race doesn't mean i'm not going to race hard and competitively in the races leading up to those peaks.
3) realized i was really over-reaching last season before my injury and am now forcing myself to take time for recovery. aside from getting a power meter this is the biggest change in my approach to cycling from last year where i really really had no idea what i was doing
4) my workouts right now are mostly SST to build base and raise my FTP, with one sprint workout a week because my sprint is truly horrible given my height/weight limiters.

The ability of racer weenies to suck all the joy out of cycling is truly astonishing. I realize you all want to be faster, but you do have to watch that boys.

Here is my suggestion for a beginner's training plan:

1. Pick a general training philosophy - be it Friel's or Coggan or whoever, but one that you can use to map out an entire season (I don't think Coggan/Hunter do this well in thier power book).
2. Pick a time to peak - not a specific race because, as you said you might be let down. More like, I want to peak for the month of June. Whatever time has a bunch of races that you'd like to target - you wont get a flat in all of them.
3. Map out a general plan based on 1 and 2 that gives you the type of training you want to focus on in a given tiime period. Mine looks something like - a bunch of tempo and sweet spot training in December. Ramp it up to add LT intervals in January, add in anaerobic intervals around Feb 1, and killer 1 min, 30 second/tabata intervals around Mid-march. I do some tempo and sprint training through the whole season.
4. Go out and do as many group rides as you can (without beating yourself into the ground). When there is a group ride ignore #1 - 3 and have fun whether that means going hard or easy, engaging in the sprints, leading them out, or sitting back and watching. You will gain more through knowledge and experience in group rides than you will through the increased fitness of a rigid training plan. Try to ride with a group at least 2 times/wk.
5. When there isn't a group ride available or you are too busy or the weather sucks, take a look at your plan you mapped out in #3. Factor in the intensity and type of riding you've been doing with the groups, and use it to decide on a workout. Don't try to map out rides more than about a week in advance.
6. Make sure you are recovering well between hard rides. This may be the most important point for a beginner.

This is great advice, you should follow it to a tee.

Dont stress over your training - here's a secret, it all works but if it isnt fun, you arent going to do it, so make it fun.;)

You're on Evo, yeah? Dont they do indoor computrainer group classes with Sue Hefler at Spokes in Vienna? Sign up and do a couple of those, they're great fun on a crappy weather day, and Sue is one of the very best coaches around, chat with her about stuff after, she's a total race/bike geek and will give you all sorts of motivation.

If everyone on your squad is doing something different, just ride with those that you have the most fun with. Lots of nice guys on Evo at the C3 level that I've raced against, hang with them, they're friendly types.

Racing is awesome.

what is the deal with all the beginners with power meters?

If it takes 10 races to move from cat 5 to 4, and you have 6 races to go. Have you done 4 races?

Just go and race your bike and learn how it all works for a season or two.

the chips and beer (or pastry and wine) works well too.

Get your wife out 2 days a week and ride for an hour, recovery ride + more points towards another guilt free "pass out" for a race night or weekend.

Here is my suggestion for a beginner's training plan:

1. Pick a general training philosophy - be it Friel's or Coggan or whoever, but one that you can use to map out an entire season (I don't think Coggan/Hunter do this well in thier power book).

I think picking a philosophy is important, but then when you're well into it (long enough that where you are is a reflection of the training philosopy), step back and reevaluate your limiters.

I hired a trainer last year - we did a lot of work on cadence and aerobics. I certainly improved, but not to the point where I'm satisfied. With that as a frame of reference we're approaching this year with more of a focus on strength training/short intervals. My point is any philosophy can become stale if you're not dynamic in how you think about it.

I never realized the importance of base, but what happened is that I never took time off for many years. My base never went away. I'd take 2 weeks off a year simply because I was sick (strep usually) and then get back into riding full bore.

I did sprints Tue, steady Wed, "pursuit" efforts Thu, and "hard rides" Sat and Sun. I loved racing and it was hard for me to stop racing at the end of the year. Although I normally raced into October, one year that wasn't enough - I raced down in Baltimore in Nov, after starting in Feb. And I didn't take time off, went right to training for the following year. I did this for about 7 or 8 or 9 years before my enthusiasm finally lost out to real life.

If you're doing the rides and feel totally and completely fresh, well, keep doing the rides. If you're struggling to do them, then you aren't totally and completely fresh and this means you need to back off a bit. But if you're totally fresh for 7 years straight, well, I think you can train for that much time.

btw I spent the year or two prior "trying to train right", doing long miles in the spring, 3k base miles, then doing structured training. Burnt me out. Not fun. One year I started something like 45 races, DNF in all but one of them. I did 10k miles and I was toast. I decided that I wasn't up for that type of training, nor that type of racing, and decided to do what was fun.

So the next year I said screw it, I'm just racing to have fun. And did a lot better, couldn't force myself to take time off in the winter (mountain biked down to 10 degrees), sprinted whenever I felt like it when I was riding (i.e. practically every time I got on the bike), and was looking forward to the first race of the year the whole time I was sitting on the rollers/trainer in the basement. Couldn't wait to do the dirt roads near my house when it rained, sprint up some short steep climb, or do some insane long ride (80 miles for me) when it was warm in February. This happened winter after winter after winter, from 1988 or 1989 to about 1996. By 1997 I was starting to stress about life and my riding started to decline.

I say have fun if your body allows it. Do a zen type thing, let your body dictate to you what it wants to do. Be honest with yourself (and your body).

You'll be fine anyway, that's the vibe I get anyway.

cdr

I'm sort of the same way, bdcheung. I don't like going that slow, but I've found that if I do a very long zone 2-3 ride on Saturday (100 miles with the DC Randonneurs), by Sunday, I'm ready for a zone 1 ride.

If you get bored of zone 1 rides, then follow botto's advice for your zone 1 day--chips and beer.

that wasn't advice, that was a warning.



The ability of power meter weenies, who are new to racing, to suck all the joy out of cycling is truly astonishing. I realize you all want to be faster, but you do have to watch that boys.

fixed.


what is the deal with all the beginners with power meters?

it's a known known, which is probably more comforting than the known unknown of listening to your body, or the unknown unknowns of racing.

i love my recovery rides and doing them at 100w is even better.

I was real frustrated trying to figure out how to train correctly. I tried to read the books available and follow websites but when it came down to it the best thing for me was hiring a coach. Now I just do what he tells me and I dont second guess or doubt myself like I used to when I wasnt sure if I was doing the right thing trainingwise.

i am totally committed to my coach and have faith that he actively analyzes training data and puts me on the right path.

coaching isnt for everybody but for people like me its almost a godsend.

I am pretty much in your same boat bd.

I discovered racing at the end of last season. I am a Cat V with 8 starts needed for IV. I don't have a plan this year (yet) and didn't have one last year.

But what I did do was have a basic riding schedule:

Tu - 2 hour social group ride 16-18mph pace
Th - 2 hour hard group ride 20-25mph pace
Sat - longer group ride (social) 15-17mph
Sun - hard or easy depending on how felt from the week.
Mon- Wed- Fri = rode when I could, depended on when I got off of work and how I was feeling.

That was enough of a plan for me to easily hang in the Turkey Day race (until I flatted with 3 to go), but I had ample fitness for that race. And this year, that is my basic plan as well. Of course now I spend about an hour a day or the trainer, or a couple outside when I get the chance in the daylight (though yesterday afternoon wasn't too bad in the drizzle out there, felt pretty good actually)

YMMV, but I still love cycling and training isn't a chore for me. When I reach the limit to where I don't feel like I am improving, I may seek help elsewhere, but for now, I know the best way to get faster: Lose weight and ride more.

I will add that I was in your same situation going into last season.

The previous year I raced twice at the end of season and went into the following season needing 8 for the upgrade.

As far as I was concerned I was a cat 4 already and should be training as one too. I set a lofty goal of upgrading to a 3 my first season. I trained as much as I could and I raced as much and as often as I could to get my cat 5 upgrade. Sometimes I even doubled up on race day just to get the start.

I completed the 10 races right away and moved up to 4. The first few races were fine and I was still training hard. Then all of a sudden I had a few bad races and this kind of broke my spirit. It was like all the hard training I had been doing was failing. This screwed me up pretty bad. I started questioning everything I was doing and even started to "dread" racing. I didnt know what the problem was. Was my base not there? was the intensity wrong? etc.

Finally I sucked it up and found my coach. Then I got lucky and broke my arm and needed surgery. This kept me inside on the trainer doing less intense workouts. It was almost like getting a fresh start. Since I didnt have races to prepare or taper for my coach was able to start me over again. I got back out on the road just in time for the start of cross and was in much better race shape than I had been while I was racing.

If I didnt get hurt I dont know what might have happened. The season wasnt going well and I wasnt living up to my goals so I imagine it could have gotten real bad. My coach might have saved me there but I was still in the race every single race I can mentality then so who knows. Without a coach I would have been demoralized and lost trying to ride the trainer those 2+ months while I was recovering. I certainly wouldnt have got back on the road with no loss to FTP thats for sure.

I did sprints Tue, steady Wed, "pursuit" efforts Thu, and "hard rides" Sat and Sun.

I did that for a couple years.. the Eddie B. "plan". It burned me out. I quit riding for 8 years and got fat.

My first goal now is to keep it fun. That's going to be very different for different people. But for me one requirement is to do different stuff at different times of the year. If I do the same thing for too long I'll get sick of it.

I'm still having fun, though I do recognize the risk of "burning out". First and foremost, I want riding to be fun. Sometimes hurting myself is fun. I really appreciate all the replies, thanks!

here. i'll do you a favor, and save you some time: stop riding right now, and start eating chips and drinking beer. that's what i ened up doing when when i burnt myself out.

If you stick mostly to baked chips and fizzy water (or diet soda if that's your thing) you can avoid most of the weight gain and still enjoy the burnout period.

Well, sort of enjoy it.

Clearly recovery is a big part of training - everyone says your gains come not from hard workouts but from the recovery following/in between them. But honestly, I cannot possibly fathom riding an hour at 120-140 watts. Booooooooring (do I sound like a beginner racer yet?). What can I do to make recovery rides more interesting? Because honestly, right now, I just skip them.

Ride with MERider1. She's a riot, and you can enjoy a 4 hour ride at low intensity.

If you stick mostly to baked chips and fizzy water (or diet soda if that's your thing) you can avoid most of the weight gain and still enjoy the burnout period.

Well, sort of enjoy it.

that would defeat the whole purpose of being burnt out.

The ability of racer weenies to suck all the joy out of cycling is truly astonishing. I realize you all want to be faster, but you do have to watch that boys.

Seriously. I read Friels training bible and got the opinion that you needed to structure your life around being a bike racer. That just wasnt that much fun for this lowly cat5..

Only because it's literally right in my lap: 1-931382-21-2

Awesome, thanks. I just bought it at (of all places) the bookstore in Union Station. It's a lot bigger than I anticipated... I thought it would be "standard" book size, like the Training/Racing with Power book.

here. i'll do you a favor, and save you some time: stop riding right now, and start eating chips and drinking beer. that's what i ened up doing when when i burnt myself out.

That's what I do on my recovery weeks. It works for Ryan Bailey, too.

Awesome, thanks. I just bought it at (of all places) the bookstore in Union Station. It's a lot bigger than I anticipated... I thought it would be "standard" book size, like the Training/Racing with Power book.

Oh Man!! I would have sold you mine for half price!@!!