Tandem Cycling - Tandem wanna be...Light captain/heavy stoker?

My husband and I are intrigued by tandem riding but have not yet done it. We would like to give it a try but have several questions:

1. Who should be the captain? I'm the more experienced rider, I am taller 5'9". However I weigh around 140 lbs. My husband is 5'8" and weighs around 217 lbs. From what I've read, it sounds like my husband should be the captain because of his weight, despite my experience/height.

2. Is our combined weight an issue? Would non-custom tandems accommodate us as a team? Do we need to look at a custom bike? What about light touring? What about climbing/descents?

3. How do we get experience on a tandem? We have one LBS that carries co-motion tandems. They allow for test rides "around the neighborhood" but we want to have more time riding a tandem to get experience before making the investment.

Hoping all you tandem enthusiasts can help enlighten us!
Sally

I understand that the control issue depends partly on which partner has the better upper body strength. Who do you want holding the bike balanced upright at stops? A 200+ captain or a 140 or so captain? When we got our tandem. a Counterpoint semi-recumbent, my wife had me ride it around for 20-30 miles solo before she got in the front stokers seat. If you two can adjust the bike so either can be captain you might try it both ways to see who works out best in front. At least it would make him appreciate what any stoker has to live with.

I have seen several tandems built so the smaller person is in front.

From your height descriptions, it appears that you could get a tandem that allows you to change places; this way, you don't get stuck with only one of you able to captain. For most couples this is not an option, since there is enough of an inseam difference that the captain's position is too big for the stoker.

All things being equal you would want the heavier rider up front, but it depends a lot on the stoker, as long as the stoker does not throw his/her weight around, the lighter rider should be able to control the bike. As pointed out, since you are similar heights you have the luxury of switching around.

Your team weight is within the norm, you don't need a custom bike on account of team weight unless you want one, but if you need an excuse for custom go for it. Your limitation on a stock tandem might be the stoker, a medium sized bike for the captain might have too small a stoker's compartment, especially if you want the taller rider as the stoker. There are tandems with proportionately larger stoker compartments. If your LBS has a Co-Mo Periscope you will have a lot of room for adjustments and switching stokers.

Climbing? its in the legs and the spirit, you will do fine. Hubbie is going to have to contribute in proportion to his weight! Descent? If you are thinking of touring with significant descents you will probably want to have a drum brake.

Can't help you regarding how to get a tandem for a longer test ride, our first rides where on a newly purchased tandem, dove right in and never looked back. Go to the LBS, take it for a neighborhood ride, bring it back in one piece, then ask for a longer ride.

Let us know how you do.

I outweigh my wife by 70-80lbs, similar to the OP (albeit with more of height difference). Most of the time we coordinate pretty well on the tandem and are in synch. On the rare occassions that we aren't on the same page, I'm simply big enough and strong enough to put the bike where I want it to be and lean it at the angle I want it, regardless of what she's doing.

If the situation was reversed, I think she would have a very difficult time overcoming my size and strength, if I failed to follow her lead.

On rare occassions (such as in traffic) its helpful to be able to "manhandle" (for lack of a better non sexist word) the bike if necessary.

We're a fairly light tandem team, but I still outweigh my wife by at least 30 lbs. Based on that difference, I would be nervous (and I think she would also) of her captaining and me riding stoker. As already stated, upper body strengh comes into play quite a bit more as a captain on the tandem than on a single. Not knowing your background and strength, however, that will be a decision the two of you will have to make together. If you choose to let him captain, you will find that communication between yourselves will be the key to success. He should be accomodating your needs, so in this case I think it should not be unreasonable that he follow your guidance in terms of cadence and shifting until he gets enough experience to effectively captain for you.

As for the "trying before you buy" issue, definately start w/ the LBS if they've got someone on staff with tandem experience and a bike in your size on hand. Have them take your captain on a ride as stoker first so he/you will understand how it feels on the back. As the captain, it sometimes amazes me how much trust Pam puts in me to keep her safe. Take the bike around the block together, and let them know you're serious, but need to take it on a longer ride to be certain. Most shops will be accomodating if they know you are serious.

One other thing you might look into is to try and find someone in your local bike club who rides a tandem and might be willing to let you ride with them as observers. We had a couple who were interested in buying a tandem ride with us on their singles for a couple of rides, and they seemed to have learned a lot just by watching us. We got a kick out of how impressed they were with our downhill speed and climbing ability (we actually still believe we're not great climbers) and how they watched and commented on our every move. I think it really helped them to see how we started, stopped, and coordinated our movements when they finally pulled the trigger on their own purchase. Who knows...if you find someone to ride with, they might actually let you try their bike.

After we bought our bike, the first time we took it out was on a large church parking lot where we could just practice starting/stopping and standing. We did 5 miles of circles, but it really gave us a lot of confidence the next time when we did actually take it out on the road.

Finally, take a look at Bill McCready's "The Proper Method". I'm pretty sure you can find out on The Tandem Link (http://www.thetandemlink.com/)or PrecisionTandems.com (http://www.precisiontandems.com)as well as a number of other good tandem related sites.

Good luck. I think you'll enjoy tandeming, but then again, I'm kind of biased. We really do!

I definitely recommend hooking up with tandem owners. The ones we knew were falling all over themselves to encourage us to ride; we rode an Ibis, a Santana, and a KHS, for a total of hundreds of miles before we bought a CoMotion last March. The reason they are so helpful is they wanted the company! In particular, we were able to borrow the Santana for several months. That was generosity; but the stoker in that pair was not available, so they didn't miss the tandem at the time.

I now have about 1400 miles on the CoMotion, (vs 50k+ on a single), and I don't really agree that captaining takes a "lot" of upper body strength, but it certainly takes a lot of reminding oneself that it isn't a single, you can't do track-stands at stoplights, and the stoker doesn't like going faster than 40mph, and so on. The "tail wagging the dog" issue is the most significant one that I have found; it was also the most noticeable difference between all of the bikes we rode; the Santana being the best, and the CoMotion next so. With a large weight on the back, I expect it would be a very significant issue, so you should definitely try it out before you buy. Not that you shouldn't do it, just that it might make a difference in what you buy.

One more thing: I encouraged my wife to ride the tandems our friends had before I went with her. All of the captains involved immediately noted her lighter weight (and higher strength) than what they were used to. Since the weights between these people couldn't have been more than 20 pounds, it is clear that stoker weight makes a big difference in handling.

1. Who should be the captain? IMHO, experience and good bike handling skills are always the most important, but size issues can clearly skew that formula. You're fortunate in that you can both probably ride the same size frame and experiment by taking turns in the front seat. Just bear in mind that the early going will be less than comforting and it will take some practice before either one of you will feel comfortable in either position. The "proper method" whereby the captain holds up the tandem while the stoker remains clipped in upon starts and stops probably isn't advisable.

2. Is our combined weight an issue? I just posted a survey question and graphed results to another list topic (Team Weight) from a couple years ago where you can see that your combined team weight well within the norm for many other teams. That said, not all tandems are created equal and you may want to include tandems from Santana, Cannondale, and Co-Motion in your search if at all possible and ride them in that order. The Santana will have a very solid frame and very predictable steering... which is ideal for first time riders. The Cannondale is actually a stiffer frame and has steering that's a bit more lively. The Co-Motion frames (non-periscope) are also very stiff and they have very lively steering which can be a bit disconcerting for a first-time tandem ride. Many of the other well-known brands of tandems could be included in this sampling and will fall somewhere in the range of stiffness and handling bounded and centered around the other three.

3. How do we get experience on a tandem? Test rides... long ones... are your best bet unless you can find a local club that has members who own tandems that might be willing to help you come up to speed. If your local dealer only carries Co-Motion, you might do well to start out on a 26" Periscope model before swinging a leg over a Primera, Speedster, or Roadster with a steel fork. By all means, try to avoid a first ride on a Co-Motion with a carbon fork: on a scale of 1 - 10, it would be the most demanding tandem in terms of handling that you could start with. While the very long steering trail of their racing tandems is a very desirable trait to have in a performance tandem, it can make a first time tandem outing a bit unnerving. Just my humble opinion as someone who has owned a variety of tandems with average, long, and very long steering trail.

All above is good advice!
Suggest you test ride every Co-Mo or other tandem that fits you in the SLC area.
Each of you ride the tandem solo to get to know a bit about it's longer wheelbase and handling characteristics. They do not all ride/handle the same way.
Only then should you ride it as a duo. From the sounds of it, you both could fit same frame with minor adjustments.
Suggest male/female set up for first test spin, then switch positions. Whoa . . . how scary was that?!
Try for more than one short test ride . . . come by the next day for a 'longer' ride. If longer free test rides are not an option, offer to pay a rental fee on that tandem for the day and go for it; and see if they'll apply the rental fee to the purchase price if you order/buy one (that ought to let dealer know you are serious).
On a decent quality tandem your combined weight is not an issue. I am a 135 lb pilot and have ridden with a stoker twice my weight . . . a bit of a challenge, but very do-able.
There's a bit of a learning curve to tandeming no matter what your single bike experience is. As stated before, communication is the key. Hey . . . and stoker does NOT try to steer from the back!
Good luck in youyr search!
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

Sally,

it obviously depends what you mean by "having more experience than your husband", but a few things that are especially useful techniques are:
– finding a proper path without zigzagging;
– handling gears adequately;
– riding far away from the curb and other obstacles.

I would suggest that you first ride solo to get the feeling of the bike, and then get your husband on board. And practise over short distances at first. My first ride with the tandem plus trailercycle was less than 5 km long, yet I ended up with sore shoulders. And I had only children as stokers. But a couple of weeks later, I had no problems cycling 80-100 km in a day.

For your husband, the main issue would be not to move around too much. Stoker stability is important regardless of the weight, but the heavier your stoker is, the better it is.

Finally, if you plan on touring with your tandem, you might want to experiment with proper load distribution. The ideal setup depends a lot on the relative weight of both riders.

To all who have responded,
Thank you so much for the information...it has been extremely helpful and has gotten hubby and I thinking in new directions.

When first thinking of a tandem, and we've been thinking a lot about it, I just assumed I'd be the pilot. But now I'm very open to either being the captain AND/OR being the stoker. The key, as many of you have stated, is getting lots of experience.

When my husband and I spoke, just casually, to the local co-motion dealer last summer, the sales guy made it clear that they only do test rides and not longer rides. One concern I have, before making such an investment, is not limiting myself to just one brand of bike. Yes, we'd like to try more than just the Co-motions (even though I'm sure they are fine bikes). Can any of you recommend places where we could try out different tandems and do long test rides? Depending on the circumstances, my husband and I are willing to travel to test drive tandems (sounds like a vacation is in the works!). I will also do my homework and look for locally based tandem clubs.

Finally, we do travel quite a bit and I harbor dreams of bike touring on the tandem in Europe. So, S&S couplers would be a definite plus. I've also looked at the BikeFriday tandems because they are designed for travel and have a low price point. They don't get much coverage here, though and I don't see options for test riding them. Any thoughts greatly appreciated!!

Sally

You might check with the "Bonneville Bicycle Touring Club", found by Googling for "utah tandem" and ignoring all of the skydiving links:

http://www.bbtc.net/

Have ridden Bike Friday tandems . . . yes some pack/fold easy. And if you don't look at the small 20-inchwheels they look OK and ride OK. As to the 'low price point' . . . if you add much of anything to that low price point, a well equipped Friday will cost as much as a Co-Mo (BTW both are made in Eugene, OR) . . . so travel out there and visit the factories/test ride. Bike Friday even has a program whereby they refurbish a used one and you can get a good price break.
Attached photo of the pricie$t/fanciest/lightest Friday . . .
S&S is a great option IF you plan to travel quite a bit.
Just our observations.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

We had a Bike Friday Tandem Traveler XL. Used it predominantly to ride with my daughter. It was excellent for that purpose, in that it is very adjustable, and it could fit her as she grew.

Also used it occassionally with my wife when we travelled. It was ok for that purpose. It definitely was not as stiff as our Burley, which showed up much more with a adult stoker. The extra frame flex bothered my wife, giving her a sense of insecurity, particularly at speed. That said, we were able to do long rides with it with steep ascents, and descents without any incident.

It wasn't particularly convenient to travel with. Assembly and dissassembly and packing took 20-30 minutes each time. Multiplied by 4 for one trip, it was a bit more inconvenient than I was willing to put up with.

Also Bike Fridays are not cheap. They are as exepnsive, or more expensive, as a comparably equipped convetional tandem. They do however hold their value, and we sold ours after six years of use for almost what we paid for it.

On the whole Bike Fridays are well made bikes, and if you have a particular need they fit, I would not hesitate to get one. For general purposes though, I'd favor a more conventional tandem.

Sally,

If I could put my $.02 into the discussion.... I believe that your best bet would be to plan a trip to a full line tandem dealer. Make and event out of it and ride everything they have available while taking turns as captain. My experience with my dealer (Gear-to-Go in Elmira NY) was very positive and very relaxed. You'll know by the end of the day what's what.

Go for the couplings - you won't regret it because you'll have a no-compromise machine that is relatively easy to put on a plane and that will last a lifetime. My wife Natalie ended up with a lightly used Santana Arriva Stowaway and made our international bones with Santana's organized trip to Tuscany last summer and had an absolute my-god-I-can't-believe-we're-doing-this blast. This year it will be camping in Germany on our own. Asia soon.

Good Luck and welcome to the fold.

Sallybike: I contacted Bike Friday when I was in the market for a tandem. They actually found someone that lived close to me and contacted them. We were actually able to borrow that couple's Bike Friday for a long test ride. Although I ended up with a KHS I was very impressed with Bike Friday's responsiveness. Good luck

Thanks all for the input. We're excited to do many test rides this year. Now... if only the snow will melt!

Finding a place to rent a tandem is a great idea. For our first ride my wife and I rented a cruiser tandem, just to try it. Had a great time, so I did some looking around for other options. Here in Michigan we have Mackinaw Island, a bike and horse only tourist location. They rent a lot of bikes including tandems. Most people I have talked to say the tandems are not if very good condition. So I did some additional checking and found a place in Travers City that rents cruiser tandems (in good condition) and what they term as a performance tandem.

The performance tandem is on a first come first served basis. It turned out to be a Co-motion. Big difference from the cruiser. We bought our own tandem after that ride.

Thanks all for the input. We're excited to do many test rides this year. Now... if only the snow will melt!

In Sacramento there is a tandem dealer (Gold country cyclery) that sells several brands and allows you to do long test rides.

When first thinking of a tandem, and we've been thinking a lot about it, I just assumed I'd be the pilot. But now I'm very open to either being the captain AND/OR being the stoker. The key, as many of you have stated, is getting lots of experience.

When my husband and I spoke, just casually, to the local co-motion dealer last summer, the sales guy made it clear that they only do test rides and not longer rides. One concern I have, before making such an investment, is not limiting myself to just one brand of bike. Yes, we'd like to try more than just the Co-motions (even though I'm sure they are fine bikes). Can any of you recommend places where we could try out different tandems and do long test rides?

Here is a family friendly tandem dealer in kansas. great stories and pics of rides with kids.
<http://www.precisiontandems.com/>

Have fun!

You Gals and guys place way to much Enphasis on the Equipment..

My Girlfriend Lauren and I just Finish a Little "Mountain bike ride" In the narrow Muddy single track trails of the Golden gate park in San francisco, With Lauren being the Captain on the Ibis tandem the whole time.


Yes it does Not fit her properly, So what....!?!?

2% drop in Efficiency, Big deal.

Just Look at her face.


Did I mention we rode in the Middle of the rain and the ground was full of Puddles, branches and sometimes even fallen trees...!?!?


Oh She is 5'6" 145pound of Pure Muscle, gut and Gusto for life, and I'm a Mega chubby 220pounder 6'2" clumsy boy and even then not even Ones she drop the bike or even stop riding it.



Ps: I do have a masters degree in ergonomics and BioMechanics (En Espanol) and I have work in the field of "Dynamic Ergonomics" for about 20 years Helping guys like Francesco Moser (when he was In Colombia training for the World Hour record) to doing Fit Kits and Using machines like the Serotta Size cycle at my own shop and then at shops with the reputation of wheelsmith in palo alto California and City cycle in san francisco.

Currentlly I work on a similar field Custom fitting motorcycles to people and consulting for company's
Like BMW, KTM and a great design shop call Touratech in germany..

But Even then I do know when enough is enough and how adaptable the Human body is and that the best thing to do is it to Do it...!!! as oppose to just talk about it for hours on end.

Just Ride the Freaking Thing...

Up a tree . . . ?
Great shots and comments!

We have an S&S coupled Co-Motion Mocha, it is everything you might expect and more and I definitely recommend S&S except for a word of caution:

You need to plan for over one hour to pack and unpack the bike, and you need to be somewhat mechanically inclined. So it is not a bike that I would take on a trip that will allow for only a few rides. You take it on a trip for a week of riding and not for a couple of days. On the other hand it takes maybe 10 min to pack into the trunk of a car if you only disassemble into three pieces and pop the wheels off. What takes a while is cranks, chains, fork, rear derailleur, wrapping the frame, ..... each little job is quick, but there are many little steps and opportunities to make mistakes or mangle something if you are not careful.

Ricardo,
Your girlfriend rocks! Thanks for the inspiration. Turns out some friends of ours have a tandem they'll let us borrow. Looking to do a ride in Feb or March (when there's less snow here).
Sally

the best thing to do is it to Do it...!!! as oppose to just talk about it for hours on end.

You do realize, of course, that your suggestion completely undermines one of the pillars of an Internet discussion list...;)

Glad you have a new friend with whom you can share your time... and that she enjoys the dual-sport side of tandeming.

Riding off-road is a completely different experience than road riding and it does indeed bring out the more playful side of cycling. Also, as you note, fit isn't as important as it is on a road bike, just as crashing while riding off-road isn't necessarily traumatic, unlike similar experiences when they occur on asphalt.
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