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Hi Everyone,
We have been riding tandems together since 1982. Starting with borrowing bikes and then buying a Kuwahara in 1984 which have been riding off and on since then. But now it is looking a little long in the tooth if you know what I mean. We are a odd size team with me being 6'5" and her 5'4". Our current tandem is a little to small in the front, but way too big in the back for her. I did find a tandem that would fit us 25.5 x 19.7. The only problem is when I start adding up the parts to get it to current standards, I am getting $4,900. $1,250 for the frame, repainting and disc brake upgrade. $2,900 for a parts kit from Tandems East. $500 for a Carbon Fork. $150 for a Disc Brake. $100 for misc parts. Totaling $4,900. Now a new DaVinci Tandem in our size with a Carbon Fork for $5,625. Am I adding this up correctly? Or am I comparing apples to oranges?
Dean & Georgia Ackerman
Troy, Michigan
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A bit of the apples to Oranges. With a complete tandem I would expect everything to be compatible and of the same grade. When you grab a bit of this and a bit of that things might not work well together. Consider calling Santana, describe your needs, and ask for a bid on a frame built to your sizes. I am not saying buy one of theirs, just to get an number to work from.
Am I adding this up correctly? Or am I comparing apples to oranges?
More information on the frame -- year, brand, model, condition -- would be of benefit.
Unless the frame that will receive all of these parts is nearly brand new, you're probably embarking on a path to a tandem that will have a residual / resale value well below what you put into it.... see caveats in the following.
I say this as someone who has acquired many NOS or second hand frames over the years and kept track of my build costs. In retrospect, it was a good thing those frames were both unique and great values, because the final costs have always been more than I estimated, even when I got everything right the first time. While I haven't come close to exceeded the cost of a new, equivalent model, I'm pretty sure that I ended up paying more to get it "just the way I wanted it" than I would if I had found a complete used bike that was similar in form, fit, and function.
Speaking of component costs, I'd be inclined to have you check with Mel Kornbluh at Tandems East (once they get back from their 3-week tour in New Zealand) to make sure he sells his build kits without a frame for the pricing quoted in his catalog / Website. He may, but I'd hate to assume and then find out that the pricing is built around the purchase of a frame.
Again, it has been my experience that unless you can get bicycle parts at OEM or wholesale pricing, or go with an outfit like Chucks Bikes and have the ability to do the build yourself, you'll be hard pressed to create a tandem that will work as well or have as much residual / resale value as a premium brand-name production tandem for an equivalent amount of $$ using equivalent components. If the residual value isn't an issue and you are really a very good home wrench who is willing to spend the time shopping for great component values on the internet or Ebay, or who has an inside track to dealer-cost for things, then you could come out ahead and have a very nice tandem: it's really a question of the value you place on your time and your knowledge of parts specifications, value, and skill as a mechanic.
You do have a bit of a size issue . . . but have fitted a 6'7" captain and a 5'3" stoker on a custom Co-Motion.
$725 difference in today's market . . . ? The daVinci sounds like a good choice. Top quality with components that mesh properly + proper fit.
However, you control the purse strings!
I have a rather new daVinci, just love it. It turns out to be the best fitting bike I ride, and great people to deal with. It is so easy to have buyers remorse especially when you get custom stuff made, but my only regret is that I fooled around and wasted time buying two other tandems first.
Hi Eveyone,
Thanks for the replies. The tandem frame I found was Assenmacher from the early 80's. Matt built my single and I always wanted one of his Tandems. So it is not as long in the back as the current tandems by 3". But it looks OK in the pictures. I have talked to Matt about repainting and upgrading it and he is checking the specs on it from his records. Before I buy it, I would have Matt give it his OK. He does not build frames any more, but does alot of upgrading and painting.
I do like the sound of the DaVinci drive system. The full range of gears, from very low to very high and nice steps along the way. But my wife is not sure if you can get the DaVinci system to feel good, like when you are on a flat road with the wind at our backs and cranking hard...
Dean
Assenmacher?
A blast from the past! We owned the #3 Assenmacher tandem that Matt built for us back in 1977. GREAT/light/fast machine, weighed a then incredible 34 lbs . . . and put 64,000 miles on it!
Tell Matt that we said HI!
RUdy and Kay/zonatandem
The DaVinci system feels fine up the hill and down the other side, hard riding on the flat is a joy and its sort of nice to be able to stand, sit, strech, and otherwise goof off while your better half keeps up the pace.
The tandem frame I found was Assenmacher from the early 80's.
This is what I would call an act of bicycle love: don't even try to rationalize the expense. This is analogous to most amateur vintage car restoration projects (not the Barrett-Jackson or Reality TV stuff) where you'll never get the money you invested in the project back out of it. However, that wasn't the point...
If you've fallen for the frame and it will fit you both as well or better than anything you might buy that's new or used for equivalent money, then why not. However, make sure you go into this with your eyes (and wallet) wide open. Again, this doesn't appear to be a best-value endeavor.
If the Assenmacher is to be repainted and you are sold on it as the frame of
choice, it would be a good idea to have the appropriate bits brazed on first
to make it more compatible with 21st century shifters, cable routing and brakes
with the option for rear disc if desired. Water bottle attach points are also
something invented since that bike was built. The rear triangle may need resetting
to current width standards also (just guessing). Fitting 10spd groups to
vintage frames can be problematic as even 8spd groups make assumptions
about bits and attach points on the frame that don't exist on vintage frames.
Newer brakes don't fit vintage frames well either, as mounting methods have
evolved, and the brakes are enormously better than vintage ones. A new fork
will take care of some of that, but the rear brake mount variance can be a
problem. The headtube of the Assenmacher is likely to be a one inch head tube,
and one inch forks are perhaps 'less desirable'. Tandemgeek is alluding to some
of this in his posts.
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