Fifty Plus (50+) - Lots of changes in bike technology since 1996!!

My First Post on Bike Forums
I'm feeling pretty old school these days tooling around with the young ones on my RB-1 and bike clothing from circa 1990-1995 (Pearl Izumi -- it has aged well).

After renting one of them new fangled contraptions on a recent business trip, I now appreciate the difference in the new technology. I gotta git me one of those puppies.

My big question is not so much about which bike to get as I'll go out and try a bunch and see what feels best on the road and to my wallet. Rather, I'd appreciate some helpful advice on how to approach getting up to speed quickly enough on the nuances of the various brand and model components.

I've been out of commission for several years due to hip arthritis (lots of cartilage is gone), but, with slow and steady therapy and education, I've been able to make my way back to the road (since October of 2007).

I believe I am going to hold up ok for a bit and some conditioning has come back surprisingly well, so, I am ready to buy a new (for me) technology bike. I believe I will be able to sense differences in bikes and the major group components (e.g., brakes, shifters), but -- it has been a long time and I am quite a bit away from my hard core racing days -- I see lots of components that I doubt I could "sense" differences in from trying bikes, e.g., stems, bottom brackets.

I'd appreciate guidance and advice on getting more educated about these types of items. Perhaps, it will take nothing more than talking to people, reading this forum as well as other online periodicals? Or, maybe I'm just gonna have to start with stock items with a new purchase and play around from there and learn as I go?

Truth be told: I'm about one year away from 50, but, I feel a kindred spirit :-)

Thank you.

Tell me more about what you liked most about modern technology! I'm like you are, and I can't imagine being totally wowed by something when you have an RB-1.

PS: I* think they should cut it off generation-wise here. Baby boomers and older. There's only 3 years of boomers left under the age of 50, and we naturally want to hang out with our own generation!

Welcome.

Modern bicycle technology has as many diverse opinions as anything. Some like it and some don't. I think that the newer technology definitely gets you a better product at a lower relative price. But I also prefer old style steel frames, mostly because I like the traditional look and fit. But as to your actual question, its a bit of buyer beware. Bike shop employees and posters on the forum can be dead on accurate, or full of goose poop, and separating the wheat from the chaff is often difficult at best. Seems like a great many folks do not know a fact from an opinion. At least that's my opinion. (note to 50+er, you are all pretty good about stating if its an opinion or fact, that's why I hang here.)

I never rode a road bike with modern components until I had my recently purchased 1986 Schwinn Voyageur upgraded with 10 speed Shimano 105. And I also enjoyed my first and only ride on the bike so far. I can't wait for spring!

If you like the ride of your RB-1, you should consider having it upgraded with modern components... You can keep the sweet riding frame and get the modern conveniences, the best of both worlds.

A full upgrade can be to any level of components.

Of course, you could keep your current bike as is, and buy another bike, since the proper number of bikes is always n+1, where n is the number of bikes currently owned. :D

Either way, or neither way, welcome!

Yeah, me too. I'm big on all the modern advances. ;)
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d195/GonzoDawg/bicycles/RB-1/Ribbyreststop2.jpg

I'm a returner and a 50+'er that chose a 96 model C'dale R500 Triple. If you have the means and the need a sweet carbon fiber framed bike with SRAM Red or DA components would be truly nice. Ride a lot of bikes from friends and shops then decide. Welcome to the 50+ forum too.

BD, that Bridgestone looks super nice. What a good ride.
Bill

(not sure how to quote, so, I'm doing it myself) "Tell me more about what you liked most about modern technology! I'm like you are, and I can't imagine being totally wowed by something when you have an RB-1."

Thank you for your reply!!!

I do enjoy my RB-1. I'm comfortable in it, still love the Avocet Racing 1 saddle -- numbness is not an issue at all -- shifting has always been crisp enough with Ultegra 600 setup and bar-end shifters, etc., etc.

I rented a Cannondale CAAD8 with 105 setup on the Big Island and rode parts of the Ironman course (about 45 miles one afternoon and then about 30 miles the next morning). The big thing that struck me was the speed and power in which I was ascending "ups" -- and I'm assuming that my perception of steepness was not off too much. I was in the big ring with 12, 13, 14 on climbs when I figured I would have been in something much lower on my bike. It felt like the bike was surging forward a bit more easily. In addition, I was on a climb for about 2-3 miles (Highway 19 from Waiku to Walaka) and was able to keep grinding it out in a way that I did not imagine I could have on my bike.

I knew that I did not get much stronger during the plane ride over (smile), and, I did not believe that the excitement of being in Hawaii was that big a deal. I checked the number of teeth in the big ring after the first ride and it had 52 -- maybe I miscounted by one.

When I returned home, I took my bike out for a spin to see if, perhaps, some training had kicked in and, I had become a bit stronger. I believe this was the case. But, still, I felt faster and more powerful on the Cannondale.

Now, perhaps the weight difference played a role? I'm assuming that the rental was about 5 pounds lighter than my RB-1. I would expect to climb better were I to suddenly lose 5 pounds. Maybe this is what was going on? When I do crank on the RB-1, I love the rumble of power I feel on it; it's reasonably smooth. But, I feel that I was able to transfer more power with the rental.

The ultimate test will be when I do some test drives on my usual rides. But, one thing that will still present itself will be the weight difference; the "new" bikes will be lighter, and, therefore, I am guessing, based on this factor alone, that I will climb better. Maybe I should drop 5 pounds and, assuming I get the same effect, save myself $2K-$5K :-).

Although, at the least, I would love to move to a 10-speed 11-23, or 25 if it exists, from my current 7-speed 13-23...and, I liked using brifters.

Anyway, that was the experience that got me thinking about a new, more modern technology, bike. Sorry about too much information.

Modern bicycle technology has as many diverse opinions as anything. Some like it and some don't. I think that the newer technology definitely gets you a better product at a lower relative price. But I also prefer old style steel frames, mostly because I like the traditional look and fit. But as to your actual question, its a bit of buyer beware. Bike shop employees and posters on the forum can be dead on accurate, or full of goose poop, and separating the wheat from the chaff is often difficult at best. Seems like a great many folks do not know a fact from an opinion. At least that's my opinion. (note to 50+er, you are all pretty good about stating if its an opinion or fact, that's why I hang here.)

Thank you!!! (I now see the reply with a quote option, smile.)

I appreciate that comment. That's why I believe it might take me some time to determine differences and why there will likely be some trial and error.

I never rode a road bike with modern components until I had my recently purchased 1986 Schwinn Voyageur upgraded with 10 speed Shimano 105. And I also enjoyed my first and only ride on the bike so far. I can't wait for spring!

If you like the ride of your RB-1, you should consider having it upgraded with modern components... You can keep the sweet riding frame and get the modern conveniences, the best of both worlds.

A full upgrade can be to any level of components.

Of course, you could keep your current bike as is, and buy another bike, since the proper number of bikes is always n+1, where n is the number of bikes currently owned. :D

Either way, or neither way, welcome!

A good idea and something I should check out. If indeed, weight has been the difference, then, perhaps, I could slim my bike weight down a few pounds at a reasonable cost. In the little research that I have done about components, I have found many used groups available on eBay and Craigslist at relatively reasonable prices.

By the way, to everyone, I appreciate the welcome!!

Sweet looking BluesDawg...mine is red (no image yet).

Although, at the least, I would love to move to a 10-speed 11-23, or 25 if it exists, from my current 7-speed 13-23...and, I liked using brifters.

Anyway, that was the experience that got me thinking about a new, more modern technology, bike. Sorry about too much information.

Go check out this thread... road fan and I are modernizing our Mondonicos. At least, I think* I'm going to. Can't decide whether I want to spread the rear or not. I found some great*, almost new campy parts on Craig's list and have been scrounging other sources. All I need now is cassette and brakes. But it will be a 10-speed when it's done, if I do it.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=380436

My First Post on Bike Forums
I'm feeling pretty old school these days tooling around with the young ones on my RB-1 and bike clothing from circa 1990-1995 (Pearl Izumi -- it has aged well).

After renting one of them new fangled contraptions on a recent business trip, I now appreciate the difference in the new technology. I gotta git me one of those puppies.

My big question is not so much about which bike to get as I'll go out and try a bunch and see what feels best on the road and to my wallet. Rather, I'd appreciate some helpful advice on how to approach getting up to speed quickly enough on the nuances of the various brand and model components.

I've been out of commission for several years due to hip arthritis (lots of cartilage is gone), but, with slow and steady therapy and education, I've been able to make my way back to the road (since October of 2007).

I believe I am going to hold up ok for a bit and some conditioning has come back surprisingly well, so, I am ready to buy a new (for me) technology bike. I believe I will be able to sense differences in bikes and the major group components (e.g., brakes, shifters), but -- it has been a long time and I am quite a bit away from my hard core racing days -- I see lots of components that I doubt I could "sense" differences in from trying bikes, e.g., stems, bottom brackets.

I'd appreciate guidance and advice on getting more educated about these types of items. Perhaps, it will take nothing more than talking to people, reading this forum as well as other online periodicals? Or, maybe I'm just gonna have to start with stock items with a new purchase and play around from there and learn as I go?

Truth be told: I'm about one year away from 50, but, I feel a kindred spirit :-)

Thank you.

I like Shimano D/A and Ultegra. I like the light action versus Campy. Wheelsets can make a difference. I have training wheelsets, deep dish carbon tubulars and other carbons. There are numerous threads on gearing. Triple versus double and double compact. Gearing is very personal and depending on your power to weight ratio and the terrain you ride. Bike fit and set up are one of the most important aspects especially if you have physical problems. A bike fit expert may provide some assistance versus the guys in the bike shop. Welcome and happy riding.

Go check out this thread... All I need now is cassette and brakes. But it will be a 10-speed when it's done, if I do it.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=380436

Good reading...I'm impressed with your adventure into this!

I like Shimano D/A and Ultegra. I like the light action versus Campy. Wheelsets can make a difference. I have training wheelsets, deep dish carbon tubulars and other carbons. There are numerous threads on gearing. Triple versus double and double compact. Gearing is very personal and depending on your power to weight ratio and the terrain you ride. Bike fit and set up are one of the most important aspects especially if you have physical problems. A bike fit expert may provide some assistance versus the guys in the bike shop. Welcome and happy riding.

Thank you for the welcome and indicating some items on which I can do a search (I'm assuming that there is a search feature with this forum)...just to comment quickly on a couple of items...the rental had a triple, which I did not need for the terrain I was on, but, it did get me thinking about the utility of a really small ring when encountering a very steep climb (or when tired or out of gas)...I'm very keen about bike fit...the one thing I learned during my early bike buying days was pay the extra money to a(competent) LBS and get the right bike and fit...it's worth it!!!

Lots of things on the modern bicycle are evolutionary, such as more speeds and use of carbon fiber for lighter weight. The old 10-speed is now 27-speed. I think two things can be described as "revolutionary", brifters and clipless pedals. Well, I guess they are evolutionary as well, but I found them to be the greatest innovations when I upgraded from my old 10-speed.

I think brifters are wonderful.Sometimes they are called STI, which is Shimano's name, and stands for Shimano total integration. They are smooth and fast and I think the greatest innovation for a long time. Everyone does not share my enthusiasm so I expect to hear dissenting opinions.

And don't forget the choices around triple or double/compact crank!!!

The big thing that struck me was the speed and power in which I was ascending "ups" -- and I'm assuming that my perception of steepness was not off too much. I was in the big ring with 12, 13, 14 on climbs when I figured I would have been in something much lower on my bike. It felt like the bike was surging forward a bit more easily.

Hate to break this to you, but if you can climb any sort of appreciable grade in a 52/14, and still feel "surging", you should turn pro. Otherwise, it's all in your head.


Now, perhaps the weight difference played a role? I'm assuming that the rental was about 5 pounds lighter than my RB-1. I would expect to climb better were I to suddenly lose 5 pounds. Maybe this is what was going on?

Two large water bottles weigh about 5 lbs. Get a friend to help you and ride your old bike with and without the water bottles. Do you feel any significant difference?

A relatively accurate test is to ride timed loops with different bikes. From the reports of people commuting to work (i.e., same distance) on their different bikes, it appears that elapsed time doesn't appreciably differ between bikes with minor differences (i.e., not 15 lbs road bike vs. 45 lbs downhill bike).

If you would like a new bike, buy a new bike. There's no need for reasons or excuses, especially if you're not racing and the tiny bit of time saved during climbing is therefore a moot point.

... I think two things can be described as "revolutionary", brifters and clipless pedals. Well, I guess they are evolutionary as well, but I found them to be the greatest innovations when I upgraded from my old 10-speed....

Even these 'modern' innovations are not all that new. I bought my first serious road bike in '93, a no-name steel frame from Nashbar with Shimano 105 components. Those components included 8 speed brifters and Shimano 105 clipless pedals (licensed from Look). So brifters and clipless pedals have been around at least 15 years.

The 9 speed Ultegra shifters have a shorter throw and crisper feel to them, but to this day the old 105 shifts just as well, in spite of the difference in feel.

....I think brifters are wonderful.Sometimes they are called STI, which is Shimano's name, and stands for Shimano total integration. They are smooth and fast and I think the greatest innovation for a long time. Everyone does not share my enthusiasm so I expect to hear dissenting opinions.

Wow, people are strongly against STI/Brifters? I only used them on two rides and I could see myself getting used to them very quickly and not missing my bar-end shifters at all. I certainly do not miss having them on the down tube.

I certainly do not miss having them on the down tube.


____________


I do. That's where they belong!

:)

Hate to break this to you, but if you can climb any sort of appreciable grade in a 52/14, and still feel "surging", you should turn pro. Otherwise, it's all in your head.

Ouch...maybe I am in the wrong career :-) ... I concur that it could have been, at least partly, in my head...I was not always surging, but, I was feeling pretty darn good.


Two large water bottles weigh about 5 lbs. Get a friend to help you and ride your old bike with and without the water bottles. Do you feel any significant difference?

Good question. Here's something funny. Since coming back to riding, I have not used a water bottles (and no food) while at home (I started with rides of 5 miles and then kept increasing just fine without it...when I did my first 35+ mile ride, I did bring water, but only consumed one bottle and felt fine)...but, in Hawaii, when using the rental (and in 80+ degree weather), I did bring and use 2 water bottles. So, maybe in the end, the bike and "paraphernalia" weights of my bike and the rental were the same after all. (For the record, I will be using water bottles when the heat turns up a bit in Austin and I am doing longer rides.)



A relatively accurate test is to ride timed loops with different bikes. From the reports of people commuting to work (i.e., same distance) on their different bikes, it appears that elapsed time doesn't appreciably differ between bikes with minor differences (i.e., not 15 lbs road bike vs. 45 lbs downhill bike).

Great idea!! We have a veloway here and I could indeed do such a test there. Brilliant.


If you would like a new bike, buy a new bike. There's no need for reasons or excuses, especially if you're not racing and the tiny bit of time saved during climbing is therefore a moot point.

If in the end, I want a new bike no matter what, I have to say, I agree...although, hmm, if I turn pro, I would have this taken care of for me :-)

And don't forget the choices around triple or double/compact crank!!!

Yes, thanks! I've done some reading on this and I am intrigued by the options and the new opportunities for various types of terrain.

As someone who only recently turned to road riding- I can tell you nothing about the older type of bikes around. What I can tell you though is that the types of geometry on bikes is so varied- that you have to try them all to find out what is best for you.

You have the full Race geometry bikes- Performance- sport and comfort. I started on a sports geometry and it was a good "Starter" bike for me. But wasn't long before it lacked something and not much longer before a far better bike was bought. The full "Race" Bikes- even though mine are not used for that and are set up to be comfortable, really work. Within a particular model- the frames don't change much but the components fitted do- so you can pay as little as say $1500 for the cheapest in the range- or X4 for the Gold plated version.

You have a bit more experience than other returnees so get out and test as many bikes as you can. And not only on manufacturers- there is the frame material- Geometry and the groupsets to check out aswell. If you pull your finger out - you should have made a decision by christmas as to what bike to get- so start hinting to the family as to what santa should bring you.

The choice of bikes is so large now that you have to get out and try them- but remember- your first bike is only to tell you what your 2nd or 3rd or 4th bike should be.

Link to one of the manufacturers- but check out as many others as you can

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-US/bikes/road/

Yeah, me too. I'm big on all the modern advances. ;)
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d195/GonzoDawg/bicycles/RB-1/Ribbyreststop2.jpg

Dude, it's like I totally shorted out my computer with drool...

Good question. Here's something funny. Since coming back to riding, I have not used a water bottles (and no food) while at home (I started with rides of 5 miles and then kept increasing just fine without it...when I did my first 35+ mile ride, I did bring water, but only consumed one bottle and felt fine)...but, in Hawaii, when using the rental (and in 80+ degree weather), I did bring and use 2 water bottles. So, maybe in the end, the bike and "paraphernalia" weights of my bike and the rental were the same after all. (For the record, I will be using water bottles when the heat turns up a bit in Austin and I am doing longer rides.)


Maybe part of what made you ride better in Hawaii is that you weren't dehydrated. You should drink water even when it is cool out since you are still sweating and releasing water in your breath... It just doesn't make you thirsty. Or so I have heard.

In fact, I think at the extremes, climate-wise, cold air is often drier than hot air.

Sweet looking BluesDawg...mine is red (no image yet).

Mine was red for 8 years. Now it has been blue for 8 years. :)

Ribby is less modern than when I bought her in '92. Originally came with indexed bar end shifters but now I have Suntour friction barcons.

I would recommend going with an all new bike rather than modernizing the Bridgestone. Upgrade, yes. Modernize no. All the changes would dilute the simple beauty of the RB-1 and you still wouldn't have a truly modern bike.

I'm not a big fan of the combination shift/brake levers, but I know they will be on my next fast road bike. I like the SRAM levers much better than Shimano because the brake lever does not serve as a shifter. The small inner lever handles shifts in both directions.

I rode a Cannondale for a year before buying the Bridgestone. I hated the harsh ride, but the sensation of acceleration was great. The Bridgestone delivers power to the wheel in a completely different way. It all still gets there, but not as immediately.

Make sure that feeling of instant acceleration doesn't come at the price of too harsh a ride. You are coming from a great steel frame that flexes in the right ways to smooth road shock and make for a comfortable all day ride. An all aluminum frame may provide more road feel than you want after hours in the saddle. Full carbon or aluminum with carbon stays may better provide the feel of immediate acceleration you like without the harsh ride you probably won't like.

I would recommend not modernizing the RB-1 either, it would considerably dilute it's resale value that is unusually high for japanese production bike. The cult following of Bridgestone bicycles numbers in the many thousands and a tiny fraction of them would love to own an RB-1 designed by Grant Peterson at no small cost. It's not just the bike, it involves an entire mindset about cycling and bicycles. Go to the i-bob list (aka Internet Bridgestone Owner's Bunch) at Bikelist.org and offer that puppy up for sale. While there check out the discussions, they are a well informed bunch much like this C&V Forum.

BluesDawg and MKahrl, thanks for the comments!! I appreciate the education...I'm blown away by the popularity of the RB-1 in this day and age. I do recall from a "few" years ago that several teammates were very excited when it became our team issue; but, I had no idea that it would become, from what I can see, a bit of a classic to quite a few people.

I would recommend not modernizing the RB-1 either, it would considerably dilute it's resale value that is unusually high for japanese production bike. The cult following of Bridgestone bicycles numbers in the many thousands and a tiny fraction of them would love to own an RB-1 designed by Grant Peterson at no small cost. It's not just the bike, it involves an entire mindset about cycling and bicycles. Go to the i-bob list (aka Internet Bridgestone Owner's Bunch) at Bikelist.org and offer that puppy up for sale. While there check out the discussions, they are a well informed bunch much like this C&V Forum.

Resale value my eye. :mad: Modify it to suit yourself and ride that bike into the ground and then hang it on the wall to remind you of all the great rides. No silly a## collector is getting his grimy mitts on my RB-1. The real value in the bike is in how it works as a bicycle, not what you can get for it.

Sorry. I just got back from a cold 50 mile ride on Ribby and here I see someone suggesting that her kind should be treated as a commodity and sold to cult hero worshipers. Blasphemy!

Resale value my eye. :mad: Modify it to suit yourself and ride that bike into the ground and then hang it on the wall to remind you of all the great rides. No silly a## collector is getting his grimy mitts on my RB-1. The real value in the bike is in how it works as a bicycle, not what you can get for it.

Sorry. I just got back from a cold 50 mile ride on Ribby and here I see someone suggesting that her kind should be treated as a commodity and sold to cult hero worshipers. Blasphemy!

The sign of a well sorted bike that works is one that is ridden and adapted to the rider so it does get ridden. They may be abused or lovingly cared for- but unless that bike is used- it might aswell be an ornament. I'm With BD on this.

I will try and get pics but I have a 14 year old Kona- well used- but in A.1 condition- Paint work scraped- decals scratched- Probably everything on it except the frame has been changed- but the bike still works superbly. Had someone mention to me last year that it was a pity it was in such "Poor" condition- as he sat posing on his £4,000 Full suspension bike that did not even have a speck of dust on it. Difference is- this bike is used- works perfectly and is a Fantastic ride. What else do I need from a Bike. (Well- perhaps a respray and new decals- but that is only superficial for a Mountain bike)

It is very possible that the feeling you are getting on the new bicycle is the result of a modern wheelset. Whether it be brand new or reconditioned, many of my friends have been amazed at how much "faster" or "more lively" their rides felt after I was done with their wheels.

Stapfam has documented the differences here between wheelsets as he has had several of different levels to try on his various bicycles.

I will try and get pics but I have a 14 year old Kona- well used- but in A.1 condition- Paint work scraped- decals scratched- Probably everything on it except the frame has been changed- but the bike still works superbly. Had someone mention to me last year that it was a pity it was in such "Poor" condition- as he sat posing on his £4,000 Full suspension bike that did not even have a speck of dust on it. Difference is- this bike is used- works perfectly and is a Fantastic ride. What else do I need from a Bike. (Well- perhaps a respray and new decals- but that is only superficial for a Mountain bike)

Certainly there's a LOT more carbon fiber stuff and significantly lower bike weights. I'm thinking that 18 pounds would have been light enough to brag about in 1996 but you need to get down into the 15-16 pound range today if you want to brag about how light your bike is.

Low spoke count wheels were out by '96 but we certainly see a lot more of them today. I actually rebuilt a 16 spoke tandem wheel for a friend. In 1996 whoever would have thought we'd ever see 16 spoke tandem wheels? (I'm sticking with 40 spokes on my tandem but I'm a retro grouch.)

Disc brakes would have been a novelty in 1996. Now they're sloooowly taking over.

10-speed cassettes didn't exist in 1996 but that's just a gradual development rather than new technology. On road bikes I think it's more sizzle than steak anyway.

It is very possible that the feeling you are getting on the new bicycle is the result of a modern wheelset. Whether it be brand new or reconditioned, many of my friends have been amazed at how much "faster" or "more lively" their rides felt after I was done with their wheels.

Stapfam has documented the differences here between wheelsets as he has had several of different levels to try on his various bicycles.

Thanks, something I'll investigate...the front rim is the original Richey Comp Vantage (think thats it) and I put a Mavic Open Pro on the back after my back rim cracked (I think I screwed up a minor truing and put too much tension on a nipple or two -- oh, I probably did this well over 10 years ago, but, the effect did not occur until September 2007).

I did find myself trying to analyze more of my feeling yesterday while riding in order to try and better understand the different sensation I had on the rental...on my RB-1, everything feels smooth and good...although, psychologically -- not gonna deny it -- I felt like I was riding something special given the new information I have learned here...I was diving into turns with a bit more swagger than usual :-)

I'm amazed that you got so much life from the original wheels. My rear rim (same Ritchey Comp V) cracked within 2 years. I replaced them with hand built wheels from Colorado Cyclist and was surprised at the difference it made in the way the bike felt. Now I have wheels made with Open Pro rims. I built the rear myself using the original hub from the wheel that busted early on. It rides even better now.
Good wheels will make a difference, but they won't change the essential nature of the frame. In other words, your RB-1 won't get the instant snap of acceleration that a super stiff frame will provide. But it will still feel "smooth and good" as is its nature. You are riding "something special".

It is very possible that the feeling you are getting on the new bicycle is the result of a modern wheelset. Whether it be brand new or reconditioned, many of my friends have been amazed at how much "faster" or "more lively" their rides felt after I was done with their wheels.

Stapfam has documented the differences here between wheelsets as he has had several of different levels to try on his various bicycles.

That is certainly part of it. My cycling present was a set of Ksyrium ES wheels for my 15-year-old bike. The wheels make a very noticeable difference in the ride, acceleration and even the weight of the bike. However, the decals (today's "bling" aesthetic?) do clash with the more dignified look of my bike overall. I am thinking of trying to remove some of those decals.

However, the bike still doesn't ride like a new one. The new ones seem to jump forward when you apply the smallest effort. Mine still seems to want to stop and think for a fraction of a second before deciding to move...

-soma5

Sorry if I am hijacking the thread, but here is a shot of my '92 RB-1 I took before my ride yesterday. The only original parts remaining are the frame, fork, brake calipers and rear hub. Everything else was replaced either to make the bike fit or work better for me or because the original wore out or broke.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2106/2222587637_798d58831e_o.jpg

You sure keep that bike nice, BluesDawg. It's beautiful.

Well some of the things I am not so sure of. The 8 speed chains were pretty bullet proof. The 9 speed chains are not too bad. I have yet to convert to 10 speed and from what I have heard, the 10 speed chains are not that reliable compared to 8 and 9.

The compact frames seem marginal too. They save weight on the frame but then they need a larger seat tube and that puts all the weight right back. The result is no improvement except it is new and people tend to buy new stuff.

I suspect that many of the "innovations" are just really not improvements and are merely there to get people to buy new stuff.

Oh, and there are the new wheels which I have avoided. I am rather leery of wheels that one can not true without special tools. What is wrong with a spoke wrench? But I put on a bunch of miles and I like bullet proof wheels. So pretty near all the wheels now have relatively few spokes and non standard adjustments.

It is a bit like the shifters. It is nice having them up on the hoods. But they do wear out in about 20,000 miles. The old down tube shifters lasted forever.

I suspect that many of the "innovations" are just really not improvements and are merely there to get people to buy new stuff.

If you actually chase stuff down, a lot of new ideas are implemented to make the product easier to build at the factory.

1 1/8 headsets, for example, were originally invented to make it easier to miter a fat down tube onto a fatter head tube. Everything, however, has spin-off benefits It's the job of the marketing folks to convince us that we can't survive unless we have the spin-off benefit that the marginally "stiffer" headset provides.

I somewhat agree with the new isn't necessarily better... However, in the OP's case a move to Brifters can indeed be worth while. Along with a potentially lighter bike.

From my understanding compact frames became the standard because with a long seat post a certain sized bike can fit a wider number of riders, and therefore a manufacturer only has to produce four sizes of a bike to fit most riders. This makes manufacturing cheaper over-all.

When I quote performance gains for "modern" wheelsets I do not always think of low spoke count wheels. (although I no longer consider 28 spoke wheels "low")

I think that the modern rim has undergone great improvements in metallurgy and manufacturing technique. How many old school rims were welded at the seam as opposed to just sleeved and pinned. How many old school rims are double walled or have shaped extrusions in them to provide better strength and force vectoring at ever lighter weights. These rims loose energy at a lower rate then the more flexable ones from time gone by.

Hub bearings are much improved also. For new "old school" rims with cone and ball bearings, the races are harder, the balls are smoother and will last longer. New style cartridge bearings may not be as free as the cone and ball, but their lifetime performance (especially in the hands of the average rider who performs average maintainence or none at all on the hubs) will be excellent.

Spokes are better. In many cases straight pull spokes have eliminated one of the greatest areas of breakage (elbow.) but it may be hard to see this at present because the extra strength is being counterbalanced by the common use of fewer spokes.

The modern low spoke count wheel probably couldn't have been built more than a few years ago because the advances in rim and spoke strength weren't available.

Super performance can still be gotten in a 32 spoke wheel using all of the new technology and that wheel will feel much better than any of the last generation wheels.

This thread has made me look at the 93 Kona Explosif I have. I think I can safely say that the only part on it that is original is the Frame. Wheels- both rims and hub wore out years ago and is now on its 4th set of wheels. Brakes have been replaced with V'Brakes and these are far more effective than the originals. The forks took a big hit from a car so have not been used since. Crankset gave up after about 8 years- I broke the left crank. Handlebars were changed fairly quickly but I still have the original " Narrow" Titanium bars. The XT topshifters gave up a couple of years ago so rapidfires now fitted.

But with all these changes- The bike has improved. Better wheels- better brakes- more modern groupset although this has always been XT. It still rides well- still gives me a buzz when I ride it and still gets attention when it is ridden.

I agree with MaddMaxx. The low spoke count wheels and stronger rims make for a lively feel.

As a fellow 50 y/o and a "return-to-cycling" rider after a 14 yr hiatus I bought a CF Trek on yr.-end close out deal last fall.

Heretofore I was a "Steel is Real" guy and I preferred Record or DA on my bikes but this Madone came with Ultegra and Bontrager.
I also preferrred to run tubular rims and tires on my bikes.

My new non-ferrous bike is on clinchers and I almost like them as much as the sew-up wheels on my other bikes. My Trek corners and descends as well as my tubular shod Serotta. I still can't believe this!

As was already posted I don't feel that the increased performance is in the weight reduction alone. The ride of the CF frames and esp. the forks has to be tried to be believed.

Although I still prefer the feel of my classic steel-framed bikes the cummulative advances in technology can't be ignored. Oh well, I guess I have to turn in my Luddite Card.

I'm amazed that you got so much life from the original wheels. My rear rim (same Ritchey Comp V) cracked within 2 years. I replaced them with hand built wheels from Colorado Cyclist and was surprised at the difference it made in the way the bike felt. Now I have wheels made with Open Pro rims. I built the rear myself using the original hub from the wheel that busted early on. It rides even better now.

Yikes...I gotta say that I've been a little nervous in the back of my mind with the remaining Ritchey tire (although I regularly check the spoke tension and it has been fine) and your experience makes me think more seriously about replacing the front wheel...there is a short but steep descent on one of my favorite rides where I probably hit about 40 on the way down (no computer for now....my old Avocet died and now I can't find an Avocet computer anywhere...even emailed them and they said they hope to be back in production soon...huh?)..

Did your rim just flat out crack when riding or did you hit something, or jam in a pothole or something else to that effect?


Good wheels will make a difference, but they won't change the essential nature of the frame. In other words, your RB-1 won't get the instant snap of acceleration that a super stiff frame will provide. But it will still feel "smooth and good" as is its nature. You are riding "something special".

I was monitoring the bike a bit today -- as opposed to just going out and riding -- and a couple of things I perceived on a 55-60 mile ride with some pretty good, and certainly more fit than I, guys on the Austin Flyers -- although, it was just a one ride sample, nothing conclusive -- 1) I was able to make it and hang in there (smile) even when the pace increased a bit, including climbs (nothing super steep, but, there were some reasonable climbs)...the RB-1 with original setup was not too shabby at all, 2) Most people did pop off/accelerate better from a dead stop (e.g., light change at an intersection)...maybe that is the effect other folks having stiffer bikes, which I did eyeball a bit today for educational purposes.

Another thing I figured out is that clearly I am working harder in the group rides than in my solo rides (for the most part on solo rides, I am looking to get more miles under my belt rather than kill myself -- I want to enjoy my rides). My evidence is that I do not need the water bottles on my solo rides (and no, I do not get dehydrated), but, on these group rides I have to consume fluids, e.g., today, I took in 4 bottles worth of water. Now, when I rented the bike, I believe I may have been working harder, so, this may partly explain the difference in experience as well.

Again, I appreciate all of the posts and the information about various bike parts, new bikes, etc. It is very helpful and is exactly the type of information that is helpful to me. Thank you.

That is certainly part of it. My cycling present was a set of Ksyrium ES wheels for my 15-year-old bike. The wheels make a very noticeable difference in the ride, acceleration and even the weight of the bike. However, the decals (today's "bling" aesthetic?) do clash with the more dignified look of my bike overall. I am thinking of trying to remove some of those decals.
-soma5

Thanks. Wheels are indeed one of the parts I need to get up to speed on...I've gone through bikereviews.com, but, I am going to be asking or reading around here and there as well....the prices of wheels and components can get up there!!!

I see that you are in Austin...ever go out with the Austin Flyers on Sundays...or, with some other group?

I somewhat agree with the new isn't necessarily better... However, in the OP's case a move to Brifters can indeed be worth while. Along with a potentially lighter bike....

I like my bar-ends, but, today, on a group ride, I was gazing at the various systems folks had on their bikes and I believe I would enjoy having the shifting on/"closer" to the hoods...I saw Campy and SRAM for the first time...gonna need to check those out...

Yikes...I gotta say that I've been a little nervous in the back of my mind with the remaining Ritchey tire (although I regularly check the spoke tension and it has been fine) and your experience makes me think more seriously about replacing the front wheel...there is a short but steep descent on one of my favorite rides where I probably hit about 40 on the way down (no computer for now....my old Avocet died and now I can't find an Avocet computer anywhere...even emailed them and they said they hope to be back in production soon...huh?)..

Did your rim just flat out crack when riding or did you hit something, or jam in a pothole or something else to that effect?




As long as your wheels are intact and working well, I see no reason to be concerned. The ones I broke did not fail catastrophically. They both gave way near eyelets where spokes exit the rim. It happened gradually. I noticed a little bump, the wheels started to come untrue and then I noticed the cracks and the spoke pulling the eyelet away from the rim.

10 cogs in the back is nice but the wimpy thin chain is not.
The quill stems are beautiful but the threadless headsets and MTB stems are much lighter.
Brooks Pro saddles are comfy but Fizzik Arionne are both light and comfy.
Tubular tires/rims laced to DB spokes in a 3X wheels are sweet but low-spoke count wheels with modern clincher rims and tires (open tubulars) are just as light and MUCH more convenient.
Silca frame pumps are exquisite but CO2 cartridges are faster and inflate the tire to full pressure.
Steel is real but the non-ferrous frames don't rust and are lighter.

I could go on but you get the idea!

PS Nothing beats wool jerseys on a cool day; esp. the Molteni ones.

Gerry

Maybe part of what made you ride better in Hawaii is that you weren't dehydrated. You should drink water even when it is cool out since you are still sweating and releasing water in your breath... It just doesn't make you thirsty. Or so I have heard.

In fact, I think at the extremes, climate-wise, cold air is often drier than hot air.

Well, Little Darwin, not sure if this is full or partial mea culpa, but, let's consider it a full mea culpa.

Today, I elected to take water with me on my routine 20 mile ride, for which, to date, I have not been taking water. Well, bottom line, I rode harder and better than usual (i.e., without water). The water absolutely helped. I still believe that I was not getting dehydrated on my rides without the water bottle as I was likely compensating by riding not as hard. Today, again, with water, there were a couple of climbs that I charged up with the greatest power and speed to date.

So, maybe the l'il ol' RB-1 will be just fine after all with a modern update or two, such as new wheels. (Nah, who am I kidding? The thought of a new bike has entered the brain...gotta get me over to that rebate thread....)

Always drink before you get thirsty. By then it's too late.

Do both. Get a new bike and a new wheelset for the RB-1. :D