Living Car Free - Hybrids are dorky

It can be argued hybrids and their riders are at the top of the social hierarchy. No one would ever mistake us for a bike messenger, for instance, or for those sorry 'posengers' who ride fixies because they are 'in'. And why would we want to be one of those silly people who get bikes that can't carry anything, bikes that need to be driven 25 miles to be ridden 25 miles? As for mountain bikes and their riders, they don't ride in the same areas we do, so their off-road machines can't be compared to our performance multi-task bike. As for some hybrids being poorly made, the same statement could be made about any type of bike. Remember the Tour de France, and the carbon-fiber wonderbike that fell apart when it hit a dog?

Neil, proud rider of a Trek 7.5 fx.

If by social you mean socio-economical, I still don't think you are entirely correct, but it might be true that hybrid riders have more money than roadies (probably not the kind of roadie that has a 5000 dollar bike though), although I don't see how this matters. On the other hand, hybrid riders are certainly at the bottom of the social hierarchy in the bicycling community, most dedicated riders probably wouldn't even consider them part of it at all. Riding around on a vintage lightweight, and especially on my pursuit geometry track-bike, people greet me, I get friendly comments, looks of appreciation, people stop to chat etc. No one will greet you on a hybrid, precisely because riding a hybrid doesn't take any dedication, knowledge or enthusiasm at all. The hybrider doesn't need to care about bicycling, he probably hasn't heard of Eddy Merckx and "Tullio Campagnolo" means nothing to him.

Also, why do you think you need to drive your road bike 25 miles to ride it? Perhaps if you live somewhere where the roads are not paved, or you don't like the local scenery. I don't have a car, and I use my vintage lightweight for all daily tasks, except in heavy snowfall. I have other bikes for other purposes, but for commuting, grocery buying, racing, long-distance touring, basically any on-road use you can think of, or just for looking cool, all you need is a high-end vintage racing bike, like my 1984 Chesini with Campy Record and titanium OMAS throughout, that I picked up for a song from the original owner.

(The picture shows my old do-it-all lightweight, before I got the Chesini. This one takes fenders rides roads and gravel like there was no tomorrow.)

Gustavo,

Your are right when you say that hybrids are at the bottom of the social hierarchy. I notice this every time go ride locally either on my hybrid or my road bike. I usually wear 3/4 mtb shorts when I'm on the hybrid, but besides that I'm wearing the same helmet, same shoes, and same jerseys. Road cyclists are less likely to wave back or say hi when I'm on my hybrid. I don't get that same response on my road bike though.

Yeah, riding a hybrid doesn't take any cycling dedication at all and that's the beauty in it. I can talk Joe/Jane, who hasn't ridden a bike since middle school, into cycling by introducing them to hybrids. Quite frankly, road bikes scare some people a way, the tires are skinny and the seat's too high. MTB, with their knoby tires, can be cumbersome to pedal. A hybrid grabs a few characteristics from each such as, skinnier tires and relxed geometry. Making the transition into cycling a lot easier. I've worked at bike shop and have seen many people start off with a hybrid first then move towards either a road bike or a MTB, it's like a "gateway" bike ;) They don't need to know all the technical terms or all the fancy brand names, they are just there to enjoy the ride.

Oh, and who's Edward Merckx and Tullio Camoagnolo?


Edit: Nice bike btw

Hybrids are easily the most unattractive, most unfashionable bikes in existence at the moment. Many of them are very poorly made, they tend to be a bit slow, you can't take them offroad, really, and even the good ones are sort of ugly. If you ride a hybrid, you know that roadies will view you with utter disdain, cool urban fixie-riders will be more polite and pretend you're not there, more because of your attire than because of your bike, and mountain bike riders will blow past you in their SUVs on their way to, well, the mountains. A hybrid rider is clearly at the bottom of the (ill-defined) bicyclists' social hierarchy.

The thing is, hybrids are possbily the most practical car-free invention ever, at least in urban environments...

...On the other hand, hybrid riders are certainly at the bottom of the social hierarchy in the bicycling community, most dedicated riders probably wouldn't even consider them part of it at all. Riding around on a vintage lightweight, and especially on my pursuit geometry track-bike, people greet me, I get friendly comments, looks of appreciation, people stop to chat etc. No one will greet you on a hybrid, precisely because riding a hybrid doesn't take any dedication, knowledge or enthusiasm at all. The hybrider doesn't need to care about bicycling, you probably haven't heard of Eddy Merckx and Tullio Campganolo" means nothing to you.

Whatz that about dorky?

Tee Hee; Somebody read the first paragraph of the OP and took it to heart!

BTW, couldn't care less about Eddy Merckx or Tullio Campganolo. Why should I?

My point was actually this: given that utilitarian basically means "for use", how can a any use fail to be utilitarian? It was just a language point, nothing more.

I see. You are trying to sidestep the issue by ignoring context:

"Utilitarian", as we are using it here on BF (and since this IS a general cycling site, such an assumption is not out of line), means "fit for everyday use by the average person". Other definitions are:

"Durable cargo hauler and daily transport HPV".

"Bike that does not require one be the next Lance Armstrong to be able to ride it well, never mind get have any chance the most out of it."

"My OTHER car." :D

"A bike most people can love and posers love to hate (because it makes the poser look like the egotistical status-seeker they are)."

The fact is, certain bikes and configurations are only "fit for purpose" for limited aims, and those almost always are recreational and sport-competitive. Unless one is a professional bike racer or rides strictly for sport, a LOT of bikes are useless, really, since they cannot carry much weight (cargo or even rider alone), lack the requisite safety equipment (if such items can be fitted at all) and require fussy maintenance to "keep on truckin' ".

A hybrid, as we use the word here, is defined as something of mixed origin or composition but now describes a distinct category of bicycles that seems to be well established. In drawing from the road and mountain bikes as well as the cruisers of the past a unique type of bicycle has appeared.

Cross bikes were once hybrids until they became an established type of bike.

My 1987 Kuwahara Cascade is also a hybrid... people usually tell me it's a pretty bad ass ride and the word "dorky" has never come up.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/kuwiecommute6.jpg

I see a lot of new hybrid bikes at our shop and as a shop that caters to commuters, we are always creating hybrids in a wide variety of configurations to suit people's individual needs.

I see. You are trying to sidestep the issue by ignoring context:

"Utilitarian", as we are using it here on BF (and since this IS a general cycling site, such an assumption is not out of line), means "fit for everyday use by the average person". Other definitions are:

"Durable cargo hauler and daily transport HPV".

"Bike that does not require one be the next Lance Armstrong to be able to ride it well, never mind get have any chance the most out of it."

"My OTHER car." :D

"A bike most people can love and posers love to hate (because it makes the poser look like the egotistical status-seeker they are)."

The fact is, certain bikes and configurations are only "fit for purpose" for limited aims, and those almost always are recreational and sport-competitive. Unless one is a professional bike racer or rides strictly for sport, a LOT of bikes are useless, really, since they cannot carry much weight (cargo or even rider alone), lack the requisite safety equipment (if such items can be fitted at all) and require fussy maintenance to "keep on truckin' ".

I don't think anyone cares about my critique of the juxtaposition of "utilitarian" and "use" anymore, so perhaps we could leave that?

The fact is that given some imagination, a road bike is an excellent tourer (I biked for a week from France far into to Italy, carrying my own and my fiancees luggage, on my 1984 Chesini, as pictured below) grocery getter (with a decent backback and a good old Carradice saddlebag you can carry several days worth of food) hauler (I've taken a moving box on the handlebars, and an assortment of large items, including other bicycles, rolling or carried, and frames, on my back, my shoulder or on the side) and of course commuter (in jeans or in a suit), since we have paved roads where I live. Refer also to my previous post, where I hauled 20 1x4 planks of 1 yard's length, along with 4 heavier yard-length planks.

I have some other bikes, like a rugged mountain-bike, for recreational purposes, but when it comes to "utilitarian use", a vintage lightweight is all you need.

Gustavo -

For me a utilitarian bike has to be able to do many things well... we went on a late night ride last night and I took my Trek which was ideal since we did some fast road riding (at 30-35 kmh), climbed some extremely steep sections of road, travelled off road on some twisty and steep trails, and were in the saddle for 5-6 hours.

The bikes people were riding were as varied as the people themselves... there were some very nice lightweight road bikes, a few older cruisers (3 and 5 speed models), mountain bikes (new and vintage), and me on my hybrid Trek.

My bike handled everything equally well as that is how I designed it when I built it up and even with my paniers loaded with a fair amount of gear, the fellows on the road bikes did not have much of an edge on the flats and could not keep up with me on the climbs since I had a better gearing (and better legs) for climbing.

A road bike is not the best machine for twisty trails and the weight of the old cruisers makes climbing difficult, a mountain bike is a very versatile machine but they do lag when the pace picks up as it did for portions of last night's ride.

A well designed hybrid will be a balanced machine and be able to handle a wide variety of conditions and perform well even though it may not excel at any one thing.

My vintage lightweights are faster and my mountain bike excels off the road but neither works as well in the other's environment as does my hybrid.

when it comes to "utilitarian use", a vintage lightweight is all you need.

God has spoken :rolleyes:

The fact is that given some imagination, a road bike is an excellent tourer (I biked for a week from France far into to Italy, carrying my own and my fiancees luggage...) grocery getter (with a decent backback and a good old Carradice saddlebag you can carry several days worth of food) hauler (I've taken a moving box on the handlebars, and an assortment of large items, including other bicycles, rolling or carried, and frames, on my back, my shoulder or on the side)...

I can just see it now: Mr Vintage Lightweight gets stopped by a traffic cop for carrying an unsafe load and creating a traffic hazard.

He then decides to "explain" why he should not get a ticket.

I wonder if there are bike racks at Traffic Court? :p

Gustavo -
For me a utilitarian bike has to be able to do many things well... we went on a late night ride last night and I took my Trek which was ideal since we did some fast road riding (at 30-35 kmh), climbed some extremely steep sections of road, travelled off road on some twisty and steep trails, and were in the saddle for 5-6 hours.
[...]
My vintage lightweights are faster and my mountain bike excels off the road but neither works as well in the other's environment as does my hybrid.

Well, if that is the kind of riding you have in mind, then sure your hybrid is a good choice. On the other hand, a dedicated cyclocross would perhaps be even better, but it sounds like your hybrid is just that.

However, I was mainly arguing against hybrids used at low speeds on smooth asphalt, which at least around here is the most common case, and like I said before, hybrids are much better than cars. There is no excuse for that ugly sloping top tupe though...

I can just see it now: Mr Vintage Lightweight gets stopped by a traffic cop for carrying an unsafe load and creating a traffic hazard.

He then decides to "explain" why he should not get a ticket.

I wonder if there are bike racks at Traffic Court? :p

Well, even if the police have nothing better to do, I doubt that the compact geometry, high stem and riser bars are going to help you much either. Perhaps the spandex overalls will do the trick, or your position at the "top of the social hierarchy".

Well, if that is the kind of riding you have in mind, then sure your hybrid is a good choice. On the other hand, a dedicated cyclocross would perhaps be even better, but it sounds like your hybrid is just that.

However, I was mainly arguing against hybrids used at low speeds on smooth asphalt, which at least around here is the most common case, and like I said before, hybrids are much better than cars. There is no excuse for that ugly sloping top tube though...

The sloping top tube on my hybrid is just fine and it is something it shares with my mountain bike... it allows for a better stand over, aids in better manoeuvrability, and when one has to bail having a lower / sloping top tube is a good thing.

I don't think the sloping top tube it has much to do with adding rigidity or strength to a frame as my conventionally framed Kuwahara is bombproof and was designed for expedition riding with significant loads.

I have a rather pretty scar on my left knee after having to bail off my Kuwahara a few summers ago and the violent impact to the top tube ruptured the bursa in my knee which kept me off the bike for more than a month.

After injuring my back and hip having a lower top tub also made getting on and off the bike much easier and the Kuwie did not see much use while I was in the process of recovering and there are still days I have trouble swinging a leg over.

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I can appreciate the virtues of many different bicycle designs.

A hybrid, as we use the word here, is defined as something of mixed origin or composition but now describes a distinct category of bicycles that seems to be well established. In drawing from the road and mountain bikes as well as the cruisers of the past a unique type of bicycle has appeared.

Cross bikes were once hybrids until they became an established type of bike.

My 1987 Kuwahara Cascade is also a hybrid... people usually tell me it's a pretty bad ass ride and the word "dorky" has never come up.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/kuwiecommute6.jpg

I see a lot of new hybrid bikes at our shop and as a shop that caters to commuters, we are always creating hybrids in a wide variety of configurations to suit people's individual needs.

That thing is my dream bike...

There are great variations between hybrids; so great, in fact, that it might be a meaningless designation.
There's a huge difference between a Walmart bike with a heavily sloping top bar and crappy (and totally unnecessary) shocks, and an old hard-tail MTB frame refitted for city use on paved roads.

That thing is my dream bike...

Yeah, it's a nice bike. The way I justified buying a non-vintage mountain-bike (and a cross, for that matter) was that older mountain-bikes were so much heavier than modern. Now you're saying that it's light, and from '87. Well, it's too late to sell the carbon monsters now, and I did buy them second-hand. When it comes to road bikes though, I maintain that there is no point in buying a modern one. Down-tube shifting may be slightly slower than Ergos, but out on the road you don't need to change gears all the time. My Chesini is not much heavier than a carbon racer, and lighter than the latest non-high-end road bikes. Let's remember that the weight of the frame is only around a kilogram anyway, so that's not going to have a great impact. Also, since a steel frame rides so much nicer than one of carbon or aluminium, the choice is easy. If you are an aesthete, there is no choice at all really!

Hybrids are easily the most unattractive, most unfashionable bikes in existence at the moment. Many of them are very poorly made, they tend to be a bit slow, you can't take them offroad, really, and even the good ones are sort of ugly. If you ride a hybrid, you know that roadies will view you with utter disdain, cool urban fixie-riders will be more polite and pretend you're not there, more because of your attire than because of your bike, and mountain bike riders will blow past you in their SUVs on their way to, well, the mountains. A hybrid rider is clearly at the bottom of the (ill-defined) bicyclists' social hierarchy.

The thing is, hybrids are possbily the most practical car-free invention ever, at least in urban environments. You can put fenders and racks on them, and do no significant damage to their performance. They're not as fast as a road bike, but on pavement anyway, much faster than a mountain bike. If you buy one with a good frame, they're indestructable. You can mange steep hills on them, even if you're old and fat- try that on a fixie. They're a lot cheaper, and a lot lighter, than one of those nice Dutch bikes. Finally- and this is not insignificant- no one will steal it. If you're going to the store, or the pub, in other words, if you're using your bike as urban transportation rather than making a statement or amusing yourself, they're just right.

My '07 Specialized Sirrus Hybrid would take issue with your first paragraph. :notamused:

My '07 Specialized Sirrus Hybrid would take issue with your first paragraph. :notamused:

Why? That thing looks hideous.

This is what a proper bike and rider look like:

http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/d/117820-13/Mahe_PR_49.jpg

Sorry, this is how a bike should look like

http://www.moviephotoforums.com/photopost/data/2/medium/P5220213.JPG

My goodness, I didn't think that my fleet of lowly hybrids, all with kickstands no less, deserved this many pages of devotion. ;)

The hybrids are getting some serious lovin' here.

Why? That thing looks hideous.

This is what a proper bike and rider look like:



NONSENSE. Not every bike ride is a race.

NONSENSE. Not every bike ride is a race.

You should probably change your screen name to Rain Man.

I'm dork. I admit it with my own free will and of sound mind. I like my hybrid and don't really care if a roadie acknowledges my presence or not. My life is mine, not theirs.

That thing is my dream bike...


It got a little dreamier yesterday as I added aero levers and scored a set of front paniers on the cheap as I am planning on doing some serious fixed gear touring with it... I'll be building up a new rear wheel with a flip flop hub (double fixed) to give a lower gearing for when things get intense.

Gustav - I have had a few people say my drop bar fixed mtb / tourer cannot possibly be a good utility bike due to it's single gearing but I seem to be proving them wrong as the bike rides long, hauls a great deal of stuff, and no matter what the road or weather brings, the bike just keeps on hauling along.

One thing it is not, is fast... it's geared to cruise pretty easily in the low to mid 20's (kmh) but I have other bikes that are built to go really fast, like my vintage lightweight road bikes.

I would never subject my 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport to the road conditions and loads my Kuwahara is expected to bear as I would be risking some serious damage to the frame and wheels.

So I am somewhat critical of using a vintage lightweight as a utility bike as these bikes were never designed for carrying heavy loads and certainly don't like anything but smooth pavement whereas a touring frame (like the Kuwie) is ideally suited due to it's greater frame strength and the slack geometry really makes for a stellar ride. The Surly LHT is a good modern equivalent of my bike in this regard.

The 26 inch wheels on my bike could support someone twice my size so when I am looking at hauling my 145 pound frame and 60 pounds of gear, I am still under utilizing the bike.

Anyways... ride what makes you happy and does the job it needs to do.

NONSENSE. Not every bike ride is a race.

You should probably change your screen name to Rain Man.

NONSENSE. Not every bike ride is a race. No need to change my name.
You should change your screen name too. Maybe Gullible Gus or Need for Speed.

NONSENSE. Not every bike ride is a race. No need to change my name.
You should change your screen name too. Maybe Gullible Gus or Need for Speed.

or maybe Mister Myopic could be Gustavo's alter Ego

or maybe Mister Myopic could be Gustavo's alter Ego

I prefer the sound of "Gullible Gus", although "Speedy Gonzales" would perhaps be more fitting. But you should both seriously think of at least mentioning your autism in your signatures, so that people will not try to joke with you.

Have you guys run out of sensible things to say ?

I prefer the sound of "Gullible Gus", although "Speedy Gonzales" would perhaps be more fitting. But you should both seriously think of at least mentioning your autism in your signatures, so that people will not try to joke with you.

kind of ironic coming from someone who's concerned with what the angle of a bicycle top tube looks like.

Have you guys run out of sensible things to say?

I know I have. Mocking hybrids isn't fun anymore, especially with all the plausible reasons you all offer.

My '07 Specialized Sirrus Hybrid would take issue with your first paragraph. :notamused:

Read the second paragraph- I like hybrids, as long as they're well made, and don't have shocks and heavily sloping top bars. I have one myself. Actually, it's an old steel framed MTB with riser handlebars and trigger shifters, a rack and fenders. It's a tank, and, yes, a bit dorky looking, but I love that bike, and, if I'm not dealing with a head wind, I can do 15-18 mph all day long without breaking a sweat.

edit: I just did an image search on a Specialized Sirrus, and while it looks like a perfectly good bike -I'd ride it myself- it's not the prettiest bike I've ever seen. It's certainly not the ugliest bike out there, either, but it's not going to win any design awards. If it was a car, it'd be a Ford Focus: stodgy but practical.