"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - 2008 USAC rules - Very new upgrade criteria

New upgrade requirements summarized, along with other rules for 2008.

http://www.usacycling.org/forms/USAC_rulebook.pdf

*******s. Poorly attended events were my only hope.

This is going to make it even more fun trying to upgrade, especially since the races I do never even turn in their results. :rolleyes:

A fifteen mile road race? What's the point in that? I think British Cycling sets a minimum of 40 miles...

And that doesn't seem to say anything about going from Cat 5 to 4 by points...

(I only express concern as I may be moving to the States late spring / early summer and fancy getting out of Cat 5 at the earliest opportunity)

Cat 5 isn't about gaining performance, it's about gaining experience.

And that doesn't seem to say anything about going from Cat 5 to 4 by points...


1) Don't think there are any 15 mile road races.
2) Don't think there are any points to be acquired as a 5.

This is going to make it even more fun trying to upgrade, especially since the races I do never even turn in their results. :rolleyes:

It doesnt matter if the race organizer turns results into usa cycling. It's on you to keep a race resume that details the information pertaining to your performance, it's on page 4 of the rulebook.



And that doesn't seem to say anything about going from Cat 5 to 4 by points...

Page 5 details Cat 5 ->4 requirements, it's experiential, there are no points.

A fifteen mile road race? What's the point in that? I think British Cycling sets a minimum of 40 miles...

And that doesn't seem to say anything about going from Cat 5 to 4 by points...

(I only express concern as I may be moving to the States late spring / early summer and fancy getting out of Cat 5 at the earliest opportunity)

If you're experienced already, talk to the co-ordinator, and they'll probably start you out higher.

W00t, my spreadsheet will come in handy. Keeping a race log of every race.

This is going to make it even more fun trying to upgrade, especially since the races I do never even turn in their results. :rolleyes:

So now I have to count how many people are starting...?

So now I have to count how many people are starting...?

Kind of what I was getting at. I do keep my own records of how I finish but sucks having to try to figure out how many people are at the starting line as well. Oh well, if the results don't get turned in I guess that means that 53 people were at the starting line. :D

So now I have to count how many people are starting...?

# starters should be listed on the results when posted, which you'll probably not need to check since you'll be otf soloing for 1st all season:)

1) Don't think there are any 15 mile road races.
2) Don't think there are any points to be acquired as a 5.


Point 1 - Yes there are. Circuit races on loop courses that are not classified as Critierums (ie, no full road closure) are still deemed Road Races by definition.


Point 2 - A cat 5 can earn novice points in Cat 4/5 combined races. Those points count toward Cat 3 upgrade so long as its within a 12 month period IIRC.

They give upgrades like candy on Halloween so this is a non-issue unless they are REALLY going to enforce max point upgrades now.

big changes on the cross side. stoked!

Can't you just upgrade based on Power Tap data????:lol:

Looks like Montanans are ****ed.

What caught my eye is the small number of points for an automatic upgrade. 40 makes you a 2 no matter what, before it was 60. I think there were a bunch of guys floating about 35-45 points, so making it 40 points is going to make "staying a 3" harder.

Since I'm not a 2 I never paid attention to their auto upgrade points but it seems that must have been reduced too.

Also you get points for small fields, which is good. The stage race points got defined better. Basically any Cat 3 that does well (around here) at, say, Fitchburg, will probably be a 2 by the end of the summer, based on the 40 point rule.

Nothing on how Masters races are treated. Interesting.

I got zero points right now.

cdr

Looks like they lowered the mandatory 3 -> 2 upgrade from 60 to 40 points. Paging the Doctor.

Cool, I only have to win 3 races with 50+ starters within the next year to upgrade.


Like that will ever happen :(

Cat 1-O-Meter: F-

The way I see it, this encourages people to head to small, little races in the middle of nowhere. The 11-20 starters for 4pts seems like a good bet.

Tour de Bumblefock Criterium, Bumblefock, AL, here I come!

Tour de Bumblefock Criterium, Bumblefock, AL, here I come!

i'll carpool with you.

There are a lot of criteriums around here less than 20 miles. But allllmost 20 miles. Like 40:00+2 is a common format. So, theoretically, those don't count for upgrades. Intriguing.

Excatly. The new rules are a benifit to womens, masters and small districts. Points going 3 deep in a field of 5-11 sounds like pretty good odds to me. They only group to get caught out is the 3's with the lower auto upgrade and lower stage race max from 20 down to 15.

There are a lot of criteriums around here less than 20 miles. But allllmost 20 miles. Like 40:00+2 is a common format. So, theoretically, those don't count for upgrades. Intriguing.

maybe the fields will race faster now so that you guys can get in your 20 mi.

I'm also thinking that we'll see a lot more petition upgrades from the 2s to the 1s.


"Sir, my 6 Cat1 teammates would be willing to write you a letter petitioning for an upgrade, despite me only having 11 of the 30 requisite points. I slave for them, and while I finish the races, leadouts are not the most effective maneuvre for gaining said points. Woe is me."

I could see a lot of team managers doing that too, even without their rider knowing, if people got sick/hurt before NRC races.

"Jim Bob, I've talked to Billy Ray, the upgrade rep. Go online and apply, it will go through. Yeah, I know you don't have the points, but I pulled some strings."

A fifteen mile road race? What's the point in that? I think British Cycling sets a minimum of 40 miles...

And that doesn't seem to say anything about going from Cat 5 to 4 by points...

(I only express concern as I may be moving to the States late spring / early summer and fancy getting out of Cat 5 at the earliest opportunity)

Almost all hill climb races are less than 15 miles. They'd make them longer, but usually the road ends at the top of the mountain. :D

The minimum race distance rule has always made it tougher for pure climbers to upgrade since we don't get points in hill climbs and getting points in a crit is next to impossible for us skinny non sprinting types. :)

They only group to get caught out is the 3's with the lower auto upgrade...

Hmmm. Since most races around here are Cat 1/2/3 combined, me thinks the screwing is gonna be less than you'd think. The flip side of the coin is a quicker upgrade helps the really motivated good racers getting into national level P/1/2 races.

I remember back when moving to 2 required an act of God and very few were allowed to move to 1. Times sure have changed.

i'll carpool with you.

Could you pick me up?

I remember back when moving to 2 required an act of God and very few were allowed to move to 1. Times sure have changed.

Could these be due to the extremely heavy bottom end that now exists in cycling? I mean, I am sure that there have always been more beginners than advanced riders, but I believe that cat 4 fields tend to overflow with riders while 1/2 fields are virtually empty except for the big races. Maybe this is an attempt to push people up through the ranks faster?

^^^
Makes sense to me. The 4 fields are always huge, and the better races get filled up fast. I think just about every cycling hub has this problem. These new rules seem to tap the top 1/3 of the cat 4 field rather then just the same 20 or so strong guys that duke it out for top 10's.

Could these be due to the extremely heavy bottom end that now exists in cycling? I mean, I am sure that there have always been more beginners than advanced riders, but I believe that cat 4 fields tend to overflow with riders while 1/2 fields are virtually empty except for the big races. Maybe this is an attempt to push people up through the ranks faster?

The lower cats are flooded because the fear of upgrading and sandbagging MR #1 in the country CAT 3 TT guy :D

Could these be due to the extremely heavy bottom end that now exists in cycling? I mean, I am sure that there have always been more beginners than advanced riders, but I believe that cat 4 fields tend to overflow with riders while 1/2 fields are virtually empty except for the big races. Maybe this is an attempt to push people up through the ranks faster?

I don't think I've ever seen a Pro/1/2 field with less starters than the Cat4/5 field around here.

Edit: Once, in a first year race that was announced about two weeks before the race, with other races conflicting with it,

Could you pick me up?

unfortunately, no.. dearborn appears to be 279 miles from chicago. sorry. kinda out of my way

Tell you what. In return you can stay at my house for the Allen Park crit.


Not that it's worth driving four hours for.

Does this apply retroactively...If I happen to have more than 40 3-->2 points (but less than 60) could I be forced to upgrade? That would not be good.

Have all of those results been reported?

Have all of those results been reported?

Thankfully I don't have 40 points. But not impossibly far (while, maybe impossible considering how low on fitness I am right now.

I don't know what I would do if I reach 40 points. For sure, 50% at max would be reported to USAC but I'd begin to feel a bit guilty at that point.

Cat 4 to Cat 3: (A) 20 points in any 12-month period; (B) or experience in 25 races with a minimum of 10 top ten finishes with fields of 30 riders or more, or 20 pack finishes with fields over 50. 30 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade.

(I put in the A and B for discussion purposes, they're not in the document)

(A) mentions the 12 months, but (B) comes after a semi-colon, so does that mean it could be experience & results over the last 20 years ??

Does this apply retroactively...If I happen to have more than 40 3-->2 points (but less than 60) could I be forced to upgrade? That would not be good.

And is there an official keeping track of all these points to actually call you up & let you know you've been upgraded ?

The lower cats are flooded because the fear of upgrading and sandbagging MR I-don't-want-to-have-to-train-for-4+-hour-races guy :D

Corrected. :D

Cat 4 to Cat 3: (A) 20 points in any 12-month period; (B) or experience in 25 races with a minimum of 10 top ten finishes with fields of 30 riders or more, or 20 pack finishes with fields over 50. 30 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade.

(I put in the A and B for discussion purposes, they're not in the document)

(A) mentions the 12 months, but (B) comes after a semi-colon, so does that mean it could be experience & results over the last 20 years ??

I still interpreted (B) as in a 12 month period since that is how 5->4 works, but that is an interesting point and I can see how it could be interpreted that way.

Cat 4 to Cat 3: (A) 20 points in any 12-month period; (B) or experience in 25 races with a minimum of 10 top ten finishes with fields of 30 riders or more, or 20 pack finishes with fields over 50. 30 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade.

(I put in the A and B for discussion purposes, they're not in the document)

(A) mentions the 12 months, but (B) comes after a semi-colon, so does that mean it could be experience & results over the last 20 years ??

My interpretation is that the results could be over the last X years. For me to do 25 races in one year would require putting 10,000 miles on my car.

I believe it would be to the discretion of the official whether X = 1, 3, or 20. Let's face it, the rules will probably change again in 3 years.

I'll just go ahead and announce my retirement as a Cat IV now.

Makes me wonder if they're trying to flush the Cat III folks, though. Too much stagnation perhaps? None of this matters much to me anyway.

Honestly, if I ever get to Cat 3 I'd probably stay there, too.

I still interpreted (B) as in a 12 month period since that is how 5->4 works, but that is an interesting point and I can see how it could be interpreted that way.

That is not how 5->4 works. It's 10 races over any time period. This is how the Cat 4->3 upgrade on experience works. 25 races (including your 10 Cat 5 races) plus 10 top-10 finishes.

That is not how 5->4 works. It's 10 races over any time period. This is how the Cat 4->3 upgrade on experience works. 25 races (including your 10 Cat 5 races) plus 10 top-10 finishes.

Interesting. I'd always heard it as 10 races in a 12 month period. But reading the rules I see that you are correct, there is no mention of a time limit. So, what exactly defines a pack finish? If you are in a crit and there is a break, the pack is pretty clear. But for example I was in an 80 mile 4/5 road race last year where the pack blew apart about halfway through, there was a lead group of 6 and I finished in the chase group, and the rest of the riders were strung out all over the course. Does that count as a pack finish?

>>4-3: 20 points in any 12-month period; or experience in 25
races with a minimum of 10 top ten finishes with fields
of 30 riders or more, or 20 pack finishes with fields
over 50.<<

20 pack finishes in races with 50 or more riders? Hell, Pcad could do that. Pack Fodder is my middle name. I could be a Cat 3.

F that action. I'd schlepping all over creation to race with a bunch of testosterone pumped Cat 4s. That's a lotta gas and entry fees. I'm too old for that ****. Besides, my vets team needs me. Well not really, but that sounds good on BF. They do need my money however.

As far as I can tell, upgrade criteriea from 4-3 is easier this year. They actually let you count races with fewer than 30 riders, where in the past they did not. According to this, I actually have the points to upgrade from 4-3...but I won't since I know smaller races aren't as competitive, and in fact, I'm not ready to upgrade.