Classic & Vintage - Changes coming to Ebay

eBay unveils lower fees, tighter seller standards (http://www.macworld.com/article/131852/2008/01/ebay.html)

Some welcome news...a few highlights:

Donahoe announced that eBay will introduce an insertion fee reduction in the U.S. Feb. 20 by cutting the cost of listing items by 25 percent to 50 percent. By reducing the impact of items that don’t sell, eBay hopes merchants will list more products.


eBay will also do away with fees it charges U.S. merchants for its “gallery” option, in order to encourage merchants to include more photos with their listings. Fee changes will vary by country.


In addition, eBay will alter its search engine so that merchants with lower rates of customer satisfaction get less exposure on search results. Meanwhile, sellers with higher buyer satisfaction ratings will get better exposure in search results.

In particular, eBay wants to penalize sellers that charge excessive fees for shipping and handling, which the company has found is a major turnoff for buyers, said Bill Cobb, president of eBay North America, who spoke after Donahoe.


eBay will also require a “safe payment option,” such as PayPal or a major credit card, from merchants with lower customer satisfaction and from those in product categories that generate many buyer complaints.


eBay will also revamp its feedback system, in particular to curb what Cobb called “a disturbing trend” of sellers using it to retaliate against buyers by giving them low ratings. This discourages buyers from leaving honest feedback and drives many of them away from eBay.

(I posted here since this is where I hang out...stan.)

very good news indeed. thanks for sharing

Sounds promising, but keep in mind that jerks always have the advantage in any battle since they are willing to bend or break rules to their advantage (this is the prime characteristic of being a jerk, afterall). So I am not holding my breath that any workable system of feedback can protect me from using that system against me.

But, I will try to keep an open mind.

jim

So I am not holding my breath that any workable system of feedback can protect me from using that system against me.
jim

Well, dude, as Honest Abe once said, "An emptor divided against himself ... "

In particular, eBay wants to penalize sellers that charge excessive fees for shipping and handling, which the company has found is a major turnoff for buyers,


eBay wants to penalize sellers who charge excessive fees for shipping and handling because eBay doesn't get a cut of those fees.

eBay wants to penalize sellers who charge excessive fees for shipping and handling because eBay doesn't get a cut of those fees.

I've been dinged on feedback for my seller fees, and I charge my cost, refund any excess, and don't charge for "handling" or materials. I decided I need to offer more shipping options, including some cheaper ones, but that's a hassle in itself, and can result in exposing items to problems en route. Not long ago, I shipped a wheelset, carefully packed in a wheelbox, via Parcel Post at the buyer's request. All the documentation was correct. A month later, the box arrived with one wheel missing and apparently no sign of damage or pilfering - though you can be darn sure it was messed with. If I recall correctly, I wound up refunding the full amount. Buyers can't always see things from the seller's perspective if they don't sell themselves, though I perfectly well understand the problem of seller's using shipping as a profit center. But there's a simple solution - get the shipping cost before bidding and don't bid if it's too high. The problem takes care of itself that way. Buyers sometimes treat eBay transactions like they're buying from a retailer instead of someone with a wife, a job, and a 3-year-old.
Here ends the sermon.

I hope the feedback system change will work. I have not left feedback in fear of a retaliation. I have also read some ads that said they will give feedback after the buyer leaves feedback.

One thing I wish eBay would do is enforce its rules. I report people that place items in the wrong category. There is one guy that constantly puts cycling clothes in the "Complete Bicycles and Frames" category. I have reported this guy at least 100 times, but eBay won't do anything. I really hate it when I am browsing through the complete collectible bicycles and there are tons of parts, print ads and clothing listed in that category.

IOne thing I wish eBay would do is enforce its rules. I report people that place items in the wrong category. There is one guy that constantly puts cycling clothes in the "Complete Bicycles and Frames" category. I have reported this guy at least 100 times, but eBay won't do anything. I really hate it when I am browsing through the complete collectible bicycles and there are tons of parts, print ads and clothing listed in that category.

eBay won't do anything because with fraud rampant, they have much bigger fish to fry. They can't even get bogus listings off there half the time. I'm sure people listing clothing under complete bikes and frames falls pretty far down their list of issues to deal with.

As soon as I flipped back to AOL to check my mail after posting, the headline that met my eyes read: "Stolen Artifacts Sold on Ebay."

I've been dinged on feedback for my seller fees, and I charge my cost, refund any excess, and don't charge for "handling" or materials. I decided I need to offer more shipping options, including some cheaper ones, but that's a hassle in itself, and can result in exposing items to problems en route. Not long ago, I shipped a wheelset, carefully packed in a wheelbox, via Parcel Post at the buyer's request. All the documentation was correct. A month later, the box arrived with one wheel missing and apparently no sign of damage or pilfering - though you can be darn sure it was messed with. If I recall correctly, I wound up refunding the full amount. Buyers can't always see things from the seller's perspective if they don't sell themselves, though I perfectly well understand the problem of seller's using shipping as a profit center. But there's a simple solution - get the shipping cost before bidding and don't bid if it's too high. The problem takes care of itself that way. Buyers sometimes treat eBay transactions like they're buying from a retailer instead of someone with a wife, a job, and a 3-year-old.
Here ends the sermon.

amen.


I hope the feedback system change will work. I have not left feedback in fear of a retaliation. I have also read some ads that said they will give feedback after the buyer leaves feedback.


This is reasonable, I subscribe to this practice. You need confirmation that the buyer is pleased. If they pay up and you send them their item and happily leave feedback, they could get it and be upset with it and then they have you at sword point because you already left your feedback so they have nothing to fear in leaving negative feedback for you. If the buyer leaves positive feedback you know they are happy, you sold your item and got your money, what more do you want, then you can leave positive feedback.

I've been on ebay for a long time...... these are good some good changes and it is about time. But my major complaint over the past few years is that they are starting to treat the 'Average Joe' like we are some sort of retail establishment and that we have to act like one. It's gotten to a point where I will just buy and no-longer sell as the cost has gotten to high and dealing with all the smucks out there just makes it a pain.

I've been on ebay for a long time...... these are good some good changes and it is about time. But my major complaint over the past few years is that they are starting to treat the 'Average Joe' like we are some sort of retail establishment and that we have to act like one. It's gotten to a point where I will just buy and no-longer sell as the cost has gotten to high and dealing with all the smucks out there just makes it a pain.

I'm with you. I mean, literally, since we apparently are in the same geographical area. But also, I'm taking my selling on the road this year - Westminster, Cirque, Trexlertown, and bypassing eBay for the most part. Plenty of good deals to be had at my table, just to avoid the hassles. Used to be the redeeming feature of selling vintage bike stuff on eBay was that it was small community that kept one another in line to some extent. You usually knew the person you were selling to, and were likely to interact with them at some point in some other way. But with the expansion of the hobby, that seems to be less and less the case.

The excessive S&H fee detail is bogus. If you don't like how much it will cost to ship, don't bid. Or, if there isn't a shipping cost listed, email the seller and find out what it will be. Easy. I sold a book and the listing stated S&H fee within CONUS, and specifically requested that any foreign bidders contact me regarding shipping costs. A canadian won the auction but didn't like my S&H fees so she left negative feedback. No email beforehand, no request for a specific method of shipping, just complaints and then negative feedback. Not like there's much way to deal with it now, but from what I guess, I'd be even worse off if they are supposedly cracking down on sellers...

This is reasonable, I subscribe to this practice. You need confirmation that the buyer is pleased. If they pay up and you send them their item and happily leave feedback, they could get it and be upset with it and then they have you at sword point because you already left your feedback so they have nothing to fear in leaving negative feedback for you. If the buyer leaves positive feedback you know they are happy, you sold your item and got your money, what more do you want, then you can leave positive feedback.


This is a bullsh!t practice and you know it. I can't believe you have the cajones to announce that to us. :lol:

As a buyer, if I pay you promptly with clear funds, a valid shipping address and enough information for you to connect the payment to the product, then my obligation to you has been completed and I deserve positive feedback. No ifs ands or buts about it. This is non-negotiable.

As a seller , your obligation to me is to promptly and securely pack the item I just paid you for and deliver it to the proper transfer agent for cartage to my domicile. When I receive the aforementioned package, if the product is in as advertised condition, this is when you the seller get your attaboy.

If you've done you job correctly there is no swordpoint to be held with. :p

I refuse to do business with any seller who advertizes that they hold my feedback hostage.

I'm with you. I mean, literally, since we apparently are in the same geographical area. But also, I'm taking my selling on the road this year - Westminster, Cirque, Trexlertown, and bypassing eBay for the most part. Plenty of good deals to be had at my table, just to avoid the hassles. Used to be the redeeming feature of selling vintage bike stuff on eBay was that it was small community that kept one another in line to some extent. You usually knew the person you were selling to, and were likely to interact with them at some point in some other way. But with the expansion of the hobby, that seems to be less and less the case.

The other thing is that people expect something used to be almost as good as new. I mean this is supposed to be an auction site not Amazon.com. I think you right about going to T-town and some of the other places. Now that community is nolonger small..... and it only takes dealing with a few bad eggs on ebay to ruin you reputation.

The excessive S&H fee detail is bogus. If you don't like how much it will cost to ship, don't bid. Or, if there isn't a shipping cost listed, email the seller and find out what it will be. ...

It's not bogus. It's a way for the seller to charge more without paying the eBay fee, and it's a way of retaining more of the money in the event of a returned item.






As a buyer, if I pay you promptly with clear funds, a valid shipping address and enough information for you to connect the payment to the product, then my obligation to you has been completed and I deserve positive feedback.

The seller has a right to verify you're not going to return the item for some contrived BS reason (really buyer's remorse) before giving you feedback. Just because you pay quickly doesn't mean you're a good customer.

I have ONE negative feedback from a whacko nutjob seller. The item I bought never came. She had a tracking number but the number never showed up in USPS (I think that means that she had printed a label). There was no proof the item actually shipped. E-mails were exchanged without resolution - I left her a neutral, she retaliated with vitriol. It wasn't worth it, only a $6 item.... I'll be more careful from now on.

If the fees get lowered that would be great, but I will have to wait and see. With some of my last round of Ebay auctions a number of items sold for $20 with like $3 in Ebay/paypal fees. This is too much for Ebay to take IMHO. I won't lie I tend to pad my shipping fees a little. For small items I normally say $6 shipping (when actual cost is ~$5 or so), but in my case I live out in the sticks and have to drive into town to drop off at the post office. I put the fees in the listing so they know what they are paying beforehand. For international bidders they pay actual shipping cost which for even small items is $20+ most of the time. If you don't like it don't bid, simple as that.

For me selling even parts on CL is way easier. They come to me, and no one takes a cut. But, I have had zero luck selling high end vintage parts/bikes on CL. For those Ebay is the only way for me to sell those items.

It's not bogus. It's a way for the seller to charge more without paying the eBay fee, and it's a way of retaining more of the money in the event of a returned item.






The seller has a right to verify you're not going to return the item for some contrived BS reason (really buyer's remorse) before giving you feedback. Just because you pay quickly doesn't mean you're a good customer.

I have ONE negative feedback from a whacko nutjob seller. The item I bought never came. She had a tracking number but the number never showed up in USPS (I think that means that she had printed a label). There was no proof the item actually shipped. E-mails were exchanged without resolution - I left her a neutral, she retaliated with vitriol. It wasn't worth it, only a $6 item.... I'll be more careful from now on.

What's wrong with having returns? You pay the shipping back, I'll let you return your mom if you want. Nome sane? You still deserve feedback. I'm not a suspicious person, I don't scam people either.

Everyone is going to get neg'd. It's like losing your virginity... The first time is devastating, the next time is easier. We stopped selling about 2 years ago with over 10,000 unique feedback and a 99.9% feedback rating. Every single customer got their feedback within 24 hours of us receiving payment.

Better yet... We'd ship on an uncleared personal check, and we never had one bounce.

If the fees get lowered that would be great, but I will have to wait and see. With some of my last round of Ebay auctions a number of items sold for $20 with like $3 in Ebay/paypal fees. This is too much for Ebay to take IMHO. I won't lie I tend to pad my shipping fees a little. For small items I normally say $6 shipping (when actual cost is ~$5 or so), but in my case I live out in the sticks and have to drive into town to drop off at the post office. I put the fees in the listing so they know what they are paying beforehand. For international bidders they pay actual shipping cost which for even small items is $20+ most of the time. If you don't like it don't bid, simple as that.

For me selling even parts on CL is way easier. They come to me, and no one takes a cut. But, I have had zero luck selling high end vintage parts/bikes on CL. For those Ebay is the only way for me to sell those items.

I agree. Shipping isn't the price of the postage meter. Add to that bubble wrap, peanuts, tape, paper, toner etc. We'd pad our shipping by 10% and our customers loved us.

Interesting.

Will the customer satisfaction rates kick in at pre-determined feedback levels? I've seen loads of sellers with 98% positive feedback on 15 or less transactions, and a lot with 95% pos. and over 1000 items sold. Who you gonna trust more there? Sellers do their bit, pack it and send once buyer pays, feedback time. Buyer leaves feedback once item arrives. Sellers shouldnt have to wait for buyers to leave feedback to avoid the negative thing. Some of it is just people using the anonymity of ebay to get all snarky and put a black mark against some poor seller cause they didnt like the box they used.

I'd guess many problems relating to shipping come via international transactions. I have bought a few items from US and Hong Kong, always at rock bottom price, with big postage. But, I should point out, postage I checked first and was prepared to pay. Sure, the item costs you $6, but the shipping cost you 3x that, and I'll bet its not costing that much to actually send. The old days of companies charging "postage and handling" are gone I'm afraid, and with ebay the p&h is having its grave trodden on.

I think the opposite of what some people have said may be true, and that many buyers see ebay as a place amateurs make cash on the side, so why should you pay for someone's time in 'handling'?

Jim

I too don't like those who refuse to leave feedback until they have received feedback. I will always avoid dealing with these people where I have the choice (for example two people offering the same item). If I am also somewhat leery about dealing with somebody for some other reason, I always check what their feedback pattern is like. If they have a habit of leaving feedback immediately after receipt of payment, I will always give them the benefit of the doubt.

As far as shipping costs go, I don't believe that 10% extra above and beyond net postal costs on small items is wrong. This notwithstanding that it is now possible for almost anybody to ship items directly from their home without ever needing to go to the post office. I pay my USPS postage online and arrange for pick-up for free. USPS even supply the boxes that I ship in for free.

Interesting.

I think the opposite of what some people have said may be true, and that many buyers see ebay as a place amateurs make cash on the side, so why should you pay for someone's time in 'handling'?



I would not say that I think big business has invaded ebay (At least not the cycling world), but there does seems to be alot of small to mid size businesses or an extension for 'Bricks and Mortar' establishments. But as it has become more of a business for alot of people, it has become less fun.

I agree with Stacey on the feedback issue.

As a buyer, why should I be the one at the highest risk in every aspect of the sale? Feedback is not contingent on how the other person feels about the transaction, it is how I feel about getting my money or merchandise.

In the past 2 years, I have had to come to understand that instead of getting immediate feedback I must wait for the potentially shady person selling potentially stolen merchandise to give me feedback until I kiss his/her @$$ with positive feedback.

If I am not happy with a transaction when I buy from you, then frankly you other sellers need to man up, or woman up as the case may be.

This pettiness over feedback is like a retailer refusing to say "Thanks for shopping with us" until after 30 days pass without returning the faulty product. Of course, it is just a reflection of the current lack of respect from retailers as well...

When I sell (which isn't as often as some people here) I always post feedback immediately after I receive the funds (which is what I get out of the deal) and get feedback from the buyer when they get the item(s) (which is what they get out of the deal).

To hold your feedback as a way to protect yourself from negative feedback frankly shows that you have no confidence in your ability to please customers.

There is nothing you can do to keep scum bags from posting negatives, so why punish people who might legitimately be unhappy? You can post a response to feedback. THAT is your mechanism to protect yourself from the few bad customers out there. Give your feedback when you get the money!

Sellers already have the upper hand by getting money while the buyer waits for the item they bought, sometimes for weeks. Enjoy that power when selling if you want, but quit being petty about feedback.

Darwin now steps off the soap box.

Has anybody else tried their new format that's in beta? I did and couldn't find my way back to the old, current format fast enough.

I'm a buyer on eBay and for items that aren't worth a king's ransom I'm simply going to pass on those with excessive shipping costs. A $10 frame with $85 shipping is just ridiculous. Especially when the next frame is $12 with $25 shipping.

I remember when Trader Village of Arlington, Texas was a place for duffers to sell most any kind of junk, collectible, antique, etc. Now, everyone and their dog is selling crap, that's CRAP they import from God knows where. No fun to visit at all. Same for most of the previous antique malls here in the Heart of Dixie.

I agree with Stacey on the feedback issue.

As a buyer, why should I be the one at the highest risk in every aspect of the sale? Feedback is not contingent on how the other person feels about the transaction, it is how I feel about getting my money or merchandise.

In the past 2 years, I have had to come to understand that instead of getting immediate feedback I must wait for the potentially shady person selling potentially stolen merchandise to give me feedback until I kiss his/her @$$ with positive feedback.

If I am not happy with a transaction when I buy from you, then frankly you other sellers need to man up, or woman up as the case may be.

This pettiness over feedback is like a retailer refusing to say "Thanks for shopping with us" until after 30 days pass without returning the faulty product. Of course, it is just a reflection of the current lack of respect from retailers as well...

When I sell (which isn't as often as some people here) I always post feedback immediately after I receive the funds (which is what I get out of the deal) and get feedback from the buyer when they get the item(s) (which is what they get out of the deal).

To hold your feedback as a way to protect yourself from negative feedback frankly shows that you have no confidence in your ability to please customers.

There is nothing you can do to keep scum bags from posting negatives, so why punish people who might legitimately be unhappy? You can post a response to feedback. THAT is your mechanism to protect yourself from the few bad customers out there. Give your feedback when you get the money!

Sellers already have the upper hand by getting money while the buyer waits for the item they bought, sometimes for weeks. Enjoy that power when selling if you want, but quit being petty about feedback.

Darwin now steps off the soap box.

I would agree with you in principle, but anymore if you get to many negative feed backs as a seller from the deadbeats of the world, Ebay will strip you of your selling account. So you get enough 'scum bags' leaving negative feedback for no real reason... you are still screwed. Heck I had one person leave netural feedback bacause I did not accept paypal ..... and another because I waited for his check to clear before I sent the item out. Posting a response to the feedback does not stop ebay from flaging your account anymore.

It's like losing your virginity... The first time is devastating, the next time is easier.....

:roflmao::roflmao:

Sez you. It was far from devastating for me, it was so glorious I'm still surprised I didn't die right then. And it has been getting better ever since. :D

As a 100+ item buyer, I have had very good experience with eBay, and I have left and received positive feedback. The one glaring exception was an automotive repair CD advertised as model-and-year specific but actually basically generic "car repair 101." In an emotional outburst, I left negative feedback before contacting the seller, but after he and she (husband-wife team) had left me positive feedback. We ended up working through Square Trade to get all feedback nullified, the CD returned, and my purchase price refunded, at a cost of $20 to them on a $17 sale. I should have contacted the seller before leaving negative feedback, and I'll bet that seller has learned never to give positive feedback to a buyer without first receiving a positive arse-kiss as a seller.

This is a bullsh!t practice and you know it. I can't believe you have the cajones to announce that to us. :lol:

As a buyer, if I pay you promptly with clear funds, a valid shipping address and enough information for you to connect the payment to the product, then my obligation to you has been completed and I deserve positive feedback. No ifs ands or buts about it. This is non-negotiable.

As a seller , your obligation to me is to promptly and securely pack the item I just paid you for and deliver it to the proper transfer agent for cartage to my domicile. When I receive the aforementioned package, if the product is in as advertised condition, this is when you the seller get your attaboy.

If you've done you job correctly there is no swordpoint to be held with. :p

I refuse to do business with any seller who advertizes that they hold my feedback hostage.

In theory this is true, however as has been illustrated here it is not that simple

the only problem with this is when the buyer decides to give negative feedback AFTER you have already given positive feedback for something that was the fault of the buyer to begin with, such as complaining shipping was too much when they didnt ask before bidding. This is the fault of the buyer, but they refuse to admit it and use the power of negative feedback to try and strike a blow.

by waiting till you see the customer is not going to pull a back stabbing maneuver before leaving your feedback as a seller, you are just giving yourself an ability to defend yourself.

I would agree with you in principle, but anymore if you get to many negative feed backs as a seller from the deadbeats of the world, Ebay will strip you of your selling account. So you get enough 'scum bags' leaving negative feedback for no real reason... you are still screwed. Heck I had one person leave netural feedback bacause I did not accept paypal ..... and another because I waited for his check to clear before I sent the item out. Posting a response to the feedback does not stop ebay from flaging your account anymore.

Then it is up to you to compose your postings in a way that they attract better customers. ;) (I know this isn't possible).

Also, what is the cutoff for losing selling rights? I know I have seen sales from people with feedback ratings of 98 or less... And frankly, I view anyone with any negatives as suspect (although I have bought from sellers with several negatives when I see the negatives are from flakes, or that they are rare, especially recently).

And even though I do closely inspect sellers with any negative feedback, I would really love a more honest feedback system, not one based on fear of negative feedbacks from sellers for no other reason than revenge (and that is exactly what it is).

Maybe what Ebay needs to do is keep feedback invisible until both sides have posted their feedback, or the time has passed for feedback to be posted (so feedback would count even without return feedback)... now THAT would be the fair way to do it.

Under that type of scenario, a good seller may be closer to 95% than 100% feedback, but it would then really differentiate the sellers (and buyers) based on the transaction, and not the response to the feedback they left.

BTW - I have 100% feedback (mostly buying) with 173 positives from different members... 234 total positives... 51 for selling (about 2/3 were eTopps cards). I will be upset when I receive my first negative, but frankly, I am surprised I haven't hit at least one flake yet. Of course always paying within a few hours of closing and always shipping by the next business day and being honest with the sale description doesn't hurt. :)

I am interested to see what Ebay does in the long term. Making it easy to have a reputation as a good seller without stifling factual neutral or adverse opinions would be great!

I just read a message on Ebay...

Part of the change will be that buyers can ONLY receive positive feedback!

I am happy with this. Sellers, be prepared to leave feedback immediately after you get your money, as it will do you no good to withhold it!!!!

:D :D :D :p :p :p :D :D :D

Well as a buyer and seller with 100 percent positive feedback I have to disagree with Stacy. I would say I get feedback from the seller for one out of 10 purchases before I leave feedback. Hell I even receive no feedback from seller who just don't care apparently. I always accepted that the seller waits for you to give you final seal of approval. You can't guarantee someone hasn't emotionally overbid the item and then is horrified and when they receive it panic and make crazy demands, you just never know. If a buyer has a legitimate claim for returning the item I am happy to take it back. Once I sold a set of skewers on ebay and when I was packaging them I cracked a piece of the plastic wing-nut. I contacted the buyer and refunded their money.
Since this practice of sellers waiting for the buyer to leave feed-back is so common I just have been doing the same. I have never left feedback in haste, I once left negative feedback after a week of emails with a seller that would not make good on their blunder, and I had a legitimate claim but no protection because I sent a money order. If you pay with paypal you are protected to some extent.

In theory this is true, however as has been illustrated here it is not that simple

the only problem with this is when the buyer decides to give negative feedback AFTER you have already given positive feedback for something that was the fault of the buyer to begin with, such as complaining shipping was too much when they didnt ask before bidding. This is the fault of the buyer, but they refuse to admit it and use the power of negative feedback to try and strike a blow.

by waiting till you see the customer is not going to pull a back stabbing maneuver before leaving your feedback as a seller, you are just giving yourself an ability to defend yourself.

Boo-Hoo.

You're gonna have schmucks in every aspects of life. Listen, this is just a little tic mark on a computer log file somewhere, it ain't the ark of the covenant... Only feedback, it has no bearing on your credit score. Personally, I'm more concerned with doing what is right than having a retaliatory option.

Well as a buyer and seller with 100 percent positive feedback I have to disagree with Stacy. I would say I get feedback from the seller for one out of 10 purchases before I leave feedback. Hell I even receive no feedback from seller who just don't care apparently. I always accepted that the seller waits for you to give you final seal of approval. You can't guarantee someone hasn't emotionally overbid the item and then is horrified and when they receive it panic and make crazy demands, you just never know. If a buyer has a legitimate claim for returning the item I am happy to take it back. Once I sold a set of skewers on ebay and when I was packaging them I cracked a piece of the plastic wing-nut. I contacted the buyer and refunded their money.
Since this practice of sellers waiting for the buyer to leave feed-back is so common I just have been doing the same. I have never left feedback in haste, I once left negative feedback after a week of emails with a seller that would not make good on their blunder, and I had a legitimate claim but no protection because I sent a money order. If you pay with paypal you are protected to some extent.

Tell me, if everyone drank the orange kool-aid, would you?

Boo-Hoo.

You're gonna have schmucks in every aspects of life. Listen, this is just a little tic mark on a computer log file somewhere, it ain't the ark of the covenant... Only feedback, it has no bearing on your credit score. Personally, I'm more concerned with doing what is right than having a retaliatory option.

it's about having a defense mechanism. If you have left feedback and the buyer becomes unreasonable and you try to appease them. You have no way of letting others know that. I still don't see why it is right to leave feedback immediately. I am happy when the buyer is happy and I won't know that they are truly happy until they tell me so. I will do everything I can to make the buyer happy if they are not.


Tell me, if everyone drank the orange kool-aid, would you?
my point is it's common practice, if you are going to avoid sellers who do this you are going to be cutting out 80 percent of ebay sellers. If everyone else is drinking the kool-aid and they are not getting sick and I am thirsty and happen to like orange kool-aid then yes I will drink it.

It's not about you being happy. The sooner you realize that the quicker you'll begin to recover from the kool-aid.

It's about a smooth and proper transaction. What more can I say?

It's not about you being happy. The sooner you realize that the quicker you'll begin to recover from the kool-aid.

It's about a smooth and proper transaction. What more can I say?

I don't see anything unsmooth or improper about it. Others seem to agree. Some people feel one way some the other. And so it goes.

Can we agree to disagree so I can go to bed? :)

Can we agree to disagree so I can go to bed? :)

I think we did.:)

Cool... 'nighters.

Did y'all miss my post...

It won't matter soon since buyers will only be able to get positive feedback.

But, can I agree to disagree too? I have a need to fit in. :o

Im all for stopping retaliatory feedback. I was the victim of retaliatory feedback and was helpless to do anything about it. I'm now fearful of ever leaving negative feedback again.



A change for sellers that I'd really like to see: being able to list an item with a buy it now price and have the BIN price stay even after someone bids on the item.

A change for sellers that I'd really like to see: being able to list an item with a buy it now price and have the BIN price stay even after someone bids on the item.

Now that would be an improvement worth having.

This is a bullsh!t practice and you know it. I can't believe you have the cajones to announce that to us. :lol:

As a buyer, if I pay you promptly with clear funds, a valid shipping address and enough information for you to connect the payment to the product, then my obligation to you has been completed and I deserve positive feedback. No ifs ands or buts about it. This is non-negotiable.

As a seller , your obligation to me is to promptly and securely pack the item I just paid you for and deliver it to the proper transfer agent for cartage to my domicile. When I receive the aforementioned package, if the product is in as advertised condition, this is when you the seller get your attaboy.

If you've done you job correctly there is no swordpoint to be held with. :p

I refuse to do business with any seller who advertizes that they hold my feedback hostage.

I've been selling on ebay for about ten years. I've always left feedback for the buyer upon shipping the item. That way I can put the date shipped right on their feedback so they know the purchase is on the way. I've never worried about getting a negative because I make sure there's not going to be a reason to get one.

With two accounts and a combined total of around 10,000 sales I've really not had that high percentage of schmucks over the years, hardly any really. Way less then when I worked in a retail store and would have a few a day. Some of it has to do with what you are selling. Cool stuff attracts mostly cool people, I guess. Mainstream crap brings in the dicks.

So how exactly is RAISING the final value fee on items that sell for less then $25.00 to 8.75% gonna help me when I go to sell some small bike or computer items? They are raising the fee on these lower cost items by 67%.

So I have a listing fee, an 8.75 percent final value fee and then maybe a Pay Pal fee.

Talk about nice and friendly for the little guy.:rolleyes:

So how exactly is RAISING the final value fee on items that sell for less then $25.00 to 8.75% gonna help me when I go to sell some small bike or computer items? They are raising the fee on these lower cost items by 67%.

So I have a listing fee, an 8.75 percent final value fee and then maybe a Pay Pal fee.

Talk about nice and friendly for the little guy.:rolleyes:

I am going to have to declare Shenanigans on EBay. I am reading some of the other new info and they are lowering insertion fees, but raising final value fees a lot for the $25 and under fees. Currently if the item sells for .01-25.00 they take 5.25%. The new final value fee will be 8.75%! If it ends from $25-1000 they take the 8.75% of 25 ($2.19) then 3.5% (old # 3.25%) of the remaining closing value balance. So for any item that sells for $25 dollars or more they are getting $0.88 more than they currently get. But, they give us a $0.05 price break on the insertion fee.

Also, for a reserve auction even if your item sells they are now keeping the reserve fee unlike before.

Shenanigans!

For all you sellers that wait until the buyer posts a feedback, what do you do if the person is a flake and leaves a neutral or bad feedback? Do you retaliate with a negative? Why do you retaliate? That is how the person felt, even if that person was wrong. You can make a comment to their feedback to explain so everyone can see that the person was a flake.

When I see a negative, I read what the person said and I check their other feedbacks to see if the person is a flake. I don't expect any seller to have 100%. A couple of negatives won't bother me too much.

And why should only the seller have a defense mechanism? With a few negatives, you will still be able to sell your items, but according to the posters on eBay's forums, it sounds like 1 negative feedback for a buyer and that person is prevented from bidding. Not on everything, just from the sellers that say you must have so many feedbacks and no negatives, etc.

I have not bought many things on eBay and I only have 6 feedbacks given to me. I don't want a negative so that I can bid on the items that I want. If you mention that you only give feedback after receiving, I will not bid on your item. Basically because I won't feel right about you. I ask myself why this person is demanding a good feedback from me. They must have received a lot of negatives, there is probably a reason for this. Or is it because they want to have a 100% rating and know if they tell people how they will retaliate if they leave a negative, then a better chance of not getting a negative.

I am a good buyer, I pay within 10 minutes if I am at home when the auction is over. The most I have ever waited was about 4 hours, because I was at work when the auction ended, as soon as I got home, the money went to the seller.

I did my part of the transaction, my part is done. You should give me the feedback I deserve. You will get your feedback when your part is done. That is when I receive the item.

Yeah, I don't care about the shipping and handling charge. If I think it is too high, I just don't bid. Or my high bid will be less. I consider it part of the price of the item. I only bid on items that have a shipping price. No shipping price, no bid.

I have email sellers asking them what the shipping would be. Some have never responed, others said they don't know and won't know until the auction is over. How can I bid on an item then? I won't know what the final cost will be. I don't bid on these items also.

I also expect the seller to charge only the cost of shipping and handling. What I mean, is if the shipping is $1.00 and material is $1.00 then the cost of shipping should be close to this amount, since there are other costs, time, gas, etc. I don't expect the final cost of shipping to be $2.00, but I don't think it should be $50 in this example. Some do try to make money on the shipping. If I think this is the case, I don't bid. I see it as being dishonest.

I am a frequent buyer and sometimes seller because like most people here you can't get rid of high end vintage on craigslist. I was not aware that buyers felt this way about sellers. Like I said I mostly buy and sometimes sell and I have always felt a seller is just in waiting for my feedback. A seller has no reason to leave negative feedback if you paid promptly and left negative feedback when you got your item so why all the worry? I have never worries about it. And I know I am coming off as the big bad immoral seller, but like I said I only very occasionally sell a few things. It's not like the seller is holding a guillotine over your neck waiting for you to leave negative feedback in case you leave a neutral. If there is an issue you both have not left feedback and the transaction has not been completed till any issue has been settled or the item is safely in the buyers hands and they are happy. So why does everyone want the seller to leave premature feedback? If there is a problem you are equals, both not having left feedback.

I will say that I will continue to be fine with sellers waiting to leave feedback. I am waiting on 4 iems to be delivered currently and have received feedback for none of those transactions and most of them I have been waiting for over a week but I consider 2 weeks a reasonable delivery wait. However, since it is becoming clear that buyers appreciate immediate feedback upon receipt of payment I think I will leave immediate feedback from now on as I feel my auctions are honest and my items well represented.

Recently I changed over frames sizes from a 56 to 54 on all my bikes... needless to say I sold some of the frames on ebay (one was even a Litespeed). Most were paid promptly and I left positive feedback..... these were high ticket items, not one of the persons left a positive feedback and prior to the sale I had many emails with them regarding the frames and measurements. Needless to say I will not beg them to leave feedback, But I am still suprised that they did not.

As a buyer I do not complain until it has been 2 weeks, even if I did pay within the first 24 hours. Sometimmes ife does get in the way of shipping..... though I had one place tell me they could not ship an item bacause they had a problem with paypal..... needless to say I was not the only one that complained. They eventually had to refund my monies after 4 weeks of not shipping a cassette.... I got the part from Europe and it arrived in a week?

Did y'all miss my post...

It won't matter soon since buyers will only be able to get positive feedback.

But, can I agree to disagree too? I have a need to fit in. :o

No, didn't miss your post. I was just debating the 'Now' not the 'Tomorrow' :)

Sure, you can join the club


On the positive feedback only issue. I feel it sucks. It gives sellers license to give less than satisfactory service without fear of retaliation.