Fifty Plus (50+) - Kids are stupid, and parents not much better

Here's a news story (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/services/newspaper/printedition/monday/localandstate/orl-crash2808jan28,0,4352895.story) you need to see. An 18-year old kid with an $75,000 2008 BMW M5 killed himself and four friends a few days ago when he crashed the car into a tree. But it wasn't just any crash. He was on the runway at Jumbolair Aviation Estates, which is the longest private runway in the US, at 3:30 in the morning, when he drove the car off the end of the raised runway. The car flew 200 feet and hit a tree 15 feet above ground, and disintegrated. Not only that, the kid had been posting in a blog for BMW owners complaining about troubles he had with the car when it got over 140 mph. Check out this thread (http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=111545) from the BMW blog. The car must have been going well over 140 to crash that way; in the blog there is a post positing that he might have been doing 170 when he left the runway.

I suppose it's good he wasn't on the road acting this way. What could a parent possibly be thinking to allow his child to have a car like this? Did any of you do such a thing?

My friends and I did some crazy stuff in cars and on motorcycles. It is a miracle that I lived long enough to finally get a little bit of sense. I never really had a hot car, certainly nothing like that BMW. I'll never understand how I survived the Kawasaki 900 Z-1B I bought when I was 19. :eek:

Pretty amazing thread. I never did anything *quite* like that, but I did some pretty stupid things on motorcycles at that age.

Thanks for sharing, I forwarded to my (18-year-old) son.

What could a parent possibly be thinking to allow his child to have a car like this? Did any of you do such a thing?

It is amazing how sheltered some of you folks are.

Go HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh5XPoNfxN8&mode=related&search=) to reset your fuddyduddy thermostat to something a little more realistic.

BTW....where is YOUR daughter tonight?

Natural selection. Something tells me that kid was an ***hole.

Heck, it's amazing I survived some of the things I did on a bicycle as a teen.




What could a parent possibly be thinking to allow his child to have a car like this?

In 10th grade I was in an exclusive Florida prep school. One of my classmates got a twin engined Cessna for his birthday. What was his father thinking? I don't know, but it was revealed decades later that Dad had two familes at the same time. One family donated a library to the school. The other donated a baseball field to the school.

It is amazing how sheltered some of you folks are.

Go HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh5XPoNfxN8&mode=related&search=) to reset your fuddyduddy thermostat to something a little more realistic.

BTW....where is YOUR daughter tonight?

It was his dad's car.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Columns/articleId=124526

If you read the whole thread, it has some meaning to us here on 50+ forum.

The kid asks a question about his car, which would be the equivalent of some kid asking how to do something very advanced on a bike. Slowly, the group of much older people (people the age of the kid's parents), figure out that the kid is not being safe, and spend quite a bit of time warning him that he just doesn't have enough experience to be driving like that. Topic goes off topic to how young the kid is, and the kid is very respectful to everyone and reassures them he's being safe and wouldn't jeopordize anyone's life.

At this point someone calls him a troll for getting everyone all riled up about age, and how the topic should be moved to their "Foo". People want pictures to prove that the kid is real. Again, the kid (remarkably) doesn't take offense. Someone says, "Just be careful. If you crash in a big way you're going to be all over the news." The kid says he'll post photos the next day. Then he went out and drove off an airstrip.

This is why I hate when people complain that things are getting off topic, or call people trolls. This story didn't turn out well, but maybe the next time allowing a thread to continue would give someone just* the right push in the right direction.

If someone comes on BF and talks about going 50 mph down a hill without a helmet, I hope BF members remember this incident before they call him a troll.

Did any of you do such a thing?

I suppose I have, in a smaller way. I have some friends who race cars and they had a ride called "Twisty Bits". They asked me along one time, and I hated it. It involved riding empty, twining roads at twice the posted speed limit. Now, granted, the posted speed limits were exceptionally low (like 10-30 mph), and these guys were good drivers. But I had visions of turning a corner and running into an amish person. I basically thought it was stupid, and never went again, but I don't like fast or noisy things anyway.

But, yeah... I did it.

All kids between 15-30 think they are immortal and really just want to be cool with their peers and have fun. As a parent there is little you can do but make them aware of the consequences of their actions but in the end they will listen to their peers not you. Hopefully your child has enough self confidence that when their inner voice says don't do something because it is stupid it will overcome the peer pressure they feel.

In the end like a lot of other people here I did a lot of things that could have killed me and I managed to survive and look back and see how stupid I was. Sometimes I just think it is more about being lucky than anything else.

BTW....where is YOUR daughter tonight?

One is working on her lesson plans for her math classes tomorrow, one is asleep after staying up two nights preparing the kickoff of "Recyclemania" at the University of Florida, and one is working on a paper to be published about changing carbon output from power plants. They are not fooling around with an overpriced toy daddy gave them.

One is working on her lesson plans for her math classes tomorrow, one is asleep after staying up two nights preparing the kickoff of "Recyclemania" at the University of Florida, and one is working on a paper to be published about changing carbon output from power plants. They are not fooling around with an overpriced toy daddy gave them.

It was his dad's car. He was letting the kid borrow it.

Another interesting sidenote: The national news is quoting sections of the forum. Hundred (thousands?) of people are reading that link. There's the typical forum banter on there, and remarkably it reflected well on the posters. The guys on that forum talk about this... that if the elders of the board hadn't taken this kid under their wing, the tone of the thread could have been a lot more abrasive and not been pleasant to read, considering what happened.

I did enough stupid stuff and got away with it to keep my mouth shut other than to say too bad that happened.

I suspect part of the problem is that young drivers/riders/whoever aren't as imbedded in wider family systems where they see related youngsters and not so youngsters gaining skills over an extended period of time. Their main role models tend to be already trained (or not trained) parents and TV. Neither show the long experience required to really get to know vehicles, roads, etc.

I've talked about what I'm doing while driving to my kids since they were little. Where I'm looking, what I'm feeling, what I'm checking for. I point out interesting challenges. Both of them had single demonstrations on absolutely clear and visible dry roads of moderately high performance driving, with an emphasis on how subtle things are. So they know I can drive. They also note that I drive extremely conservatively. Neither really has any particular interest in driving.

This is how I was trained. My grandfather would occasionally take me on a test drive. I soon realized he could drive like people racing cars on TV. Which he could. Years later I found out about the on-track tragedy that led to his departure from the racing world. But he was a fuddy duddy normally on the road. My parents were both that way, too, but without the clear handling skills. The difference was pretty clear.

I don't see most kids getting trained. They just watch bad habits exhibited by their parents. Actions speak really loudly. Even "don't do this ever" doesn't blunt the impression from a stupid move. Our culture seems to promote aggressiveness rather than cooperation. And certainly doesn't support compliance with traffic rules. Or patience.

Another problem is the media depiction of high performance driving. Nobody hops on a course and does it at the maximum speed without working up to it and without a car set up for it. Round and round, jacking this and that, thinking about tires and pressure, working a corner again and again until the line and what exactly happens off the line gets impressed. I knew drivers who would get up very very early and slowly walk the course the morning of the race, looking at everything. The stunt drivers work so hard. Isn't generally shown on TV. They just pop in a car and then do magic.

I'm thinking the best thing to do with my kids is to send each through a civilian driving course. Then let them drive with me in the car for a year or two. Then send each to a basic performance driving course on a track in real performance cars. Being able to really drive has never gotten me into trouble, but it has certainly gotten me out of trouble. I want them to be able to handle the oddities. Like the metal shelf set in my lane, moving towards me at 45 mph showering sparks. Even a Ford Explorer handles fine if treated right. The kids need to know when to hit the throttle and when to hit the brake. And what happens with full throttle at speed for a particular vehicle.

My graduation came in my 30s when my grandfather said "nice shift." It was the only complement I ever heard from him.

I suspect part of the problem is that young drivers/riders/whoever aren't as imbedded in wider family systems where they see related youngsters and not so youngsters gaining skills over an extended period of time. Their main role models tend to be already trained (or not trained) parents and TV. Neither show the long experience required to really get to know vehicles, roads, etc.

I've talked about what I'm doing while driving to my kids since they were little. Where I'm looking, what I'm feeling, what I'm checking for. I point out interesting challenges. Both of them had single demonstrations on absolutely clear and visible dry roads of moderately high performance driving, with an emphasis on how subtle things are. So they know I can drive. They also note that I drive extremely conservatively. Neither really has any particular interest in driving.

This is how I was trained. My grandfather would occasionally take me on a test drive. I soon realized he could drive like people racing cars on TV. Which he could. Years later I found out about the on-track tragedy that led to his departure from the racing world. But he was a fuddy duddy normally on the road. My parents were both that way, too, but without the clear handling skills. The difference was pretty clear.

I don't see most kids getting trained. They just watch bad habits exhibited by their parents. Actions speak really loudly. Even "don't do this ever" doesn't blunt the impression from a stupid move. Our culture seems to promote aggressiveness rather than cooperation. And certainly doesn't support compliance with traffic rules. Or patience.

Another problem is the media depiction of high performance driving. Nobody hops on a course and does it at the maximum speed without working up to it and without a car set up for it. Round and round, jacking this and that, thinking about tires and pressure, working a corner again and again until the line and what exactly happens off the line gets impressed. I knew drivers who would get up very very early and slowly walk the course the morning of the race, looking at everything. The stunt drivers work so hard. Isn't generally shown on TV. They just pop in a car and then do magic.

I'm thinking the best thing to do with my kids is to send each through a civilian driving course. Then let them drive with me in the car for a year or two. Then send each to a basic performance driving course on a track in real performance cars. Being able to really drive has never gotten me into trouble, but it has certainly gotten me out of trouble. I want them to be able to handle the oddities. Like the metal shelf set in my lane, moving towards me at 45 mph showering sparks. Even a Ford Explorer handles fine if treated right. The kids need to know when to hit the throttle and when to hit the brake. And what happens with full throttle at speed for a particular vehicle.

My graduation came in my 30s when my grandfather said "nice shift." It was the only complement I ever heard from him.

The difference between 8 hours with a driving instructor and attendance at any professional driving school is so great that most average street drivers won't even know what your talking about. We still have about 50,000 deaths a year don't we. :eek:

[QUOTE=Kerlenbach;6075388I suppose it's good he wasn't on the road acting this way. What could a parent possibly be thinking to allow his child to have a car like this? Did any of you do such a thing?[/QUOTE]

I can think of three good friends I lost while growing up, all from some combination of cars, drink, and high speeds.

The likely driver had four tickets over two years. I'm a bit surprised he was allowed to drive unsupervised, let alone go to late night drinking parties.

I never drove a car at 140 mph illegaly on an aircraft runway, but I certainly drove cars at or near the top speed. Unfortunately, this is nearly a rite of passage among teenage boys. We are the survivors.

To make this bike related, I'd like to add that riding a bike gives me much more of a speed thrill than driving a car or flying an airplane, and that cycling allows one to street race safely and legally. I think encouraging kids to ride bikes or to participate in safe, supervised, high performance driving events are good ideas.

Paul

I think the same thing about parents and kids every day as I listen to the mini-motorcycles zooming up and down my street. Some of these riders are 11 or so, and ride with 3 or 4 year olds on their lap, no one wearing a helmet, of course. What planet are these kids' parents on?

I can think of three good friends I lost while growing up, all from some combination of cars, drink, and high speeds.

I remember one Saturday night/Sunday morning as a young adult, riding in a friend's Dodge Duster with three friends as we hurtled along the Richard M. Nixon Freeway at 140. Yes, the driver had been drinking. Nothing happened and we had fun and rode the entire length of the freeway and back.

Weeks later, the driver totaled his Duster and almost killed himself. It was a life changing experience for him. He took up with BMWs and became a factory trained BMW mechanic. :rolleyes:

I never really had a hot car, certainly nothing like that BMW. I'll never understand how I survived the Kawasaki 900 Z-1B I bought when I was 19. :eek:

That Z-1 could walk away from almost any car on the highway in those days. Are you kidding? ;)

I remember one Saturday night/Sunday morning as a young adult, riding in a friend's Dodge Duster

Hah! I had a Plymouth Roadrunner that I think was a similar car. I hated that car...you could get whiplash no matter how slowly you tried to get going from a stop. It just wanted to GO on you. Too much car for me. The guys from my neighborhood still remember that car and speak with love about it.

Never been 170, but over 120 in various muscle cars that didn't handle well at all, and over 140 on motorcycles. Between 18 and 30 I did a lot of stupid things.

I suppose it's good he wasn't on the road acting this way. What could a parent possibly be thinking to allow his child to have a car like this? Did any of you do such a thing?

One of the main reasons this made the news--perhaps THE main reason this hit the news--is that a young kid was driving an expensive car off an exclusive private runway. What could parents be thinking? The same thing parents think who buy their kid a beater or hopped-up pickup--because that's what the parents can afford--then disregard the speeding tickets, keep paying the insurance, and don't know or don't care what the kids are doing in those rigs--like tossing empty cans out the window at pedestrians for fun. But those stories don't make the news because they don't have the bling factor.

As a teacher, I see this kind of behavior every year. What are the parents thinking? They're not. And if you try and tell them that, the reaction is too often denial followed by rage, not at their kid but at the messenger.

It was the dad's car! The kid was 18...the parents probably didn't even know about the tickets. They may not know he took the car.

Plus, the airport was owned by the father of the kid's girlfriend, so I imagine there was some sneaking in.

Plus, there was no evidence the boy was drinking. The newspaper recanted that.

If the kid just took the dad's car, as so many kids do if their parents are away, then I don't know what you expect them to do to an 18 year old young man.

"Why my son would never do something that stupid. You don't know what your talking about."

The land of situational ethics, decaying morals and failure to take responsibility.
You see it all the time in Orange County California! To much money following total foolishness!

Sometimes the consequences are fatal. Not one kid is dead, but four. What would his parents tell you today? What can they say to the other kids family? It must have been there fault he did it. Sad, sad, sad!

Compare this young man with a privileged life to those young men and women we have on the front lines in harms way fighting for our country. Kids are not all the same. Same age, but my what a difference!!!

I think the same thing about parents and kids every day as I listen to the mini-motorcycles zooming up and down my street. Some of these riders are 11 or so, and ride with 3 or 4 year olds on their lap, no one wearing a helmet, of course. What planet are these kids' parents on?

I'm with you Bud. A former boss of mine, who had a place in the country, turned his twin 5 year old boys loose, each with their own mini-four wheeler. One of them flipped his over on himself and nearly bled to death, and would have but for the presence of mind of his twin brother. I felt then, and still believe, the parents should have been charged with child endangerment. Why not just give them a gun?

Then a secretary where I worked let her 10 year old daughter have the run of their ranch on a full size four wheeler. She got a rope tangled up between her neck, shoulder, and axle resulting in permanent brain damage.

Though these are somewhat different than the BMW driver, they are only different by degrees. If some of these parents who show such poor judgement were charged with child endangerment or perhaps some sort of manslaughter charges after some of these stupid incidents it might open some eyes.

After reading the thread on the car site about this, it really bothered me that there was such a focus on who was to blame. The parents, for being rich. Obviously they were negligent...

Well we all know very good parents with kids that do really stupid things. In fact, most of us know good parents with kids who have gone astray. We hope it's just a phase, and they'll outgrow it. Preacher's kids, cop's kids, soldier's kids....doesn't make a difference.

BESIDES! The kid was an adult!

Then they blamed the airstrip owners for not having tight enough security.

Then they blamed John Travolta for living there and drawing so much press. Then they complained the plane he owned was too big.

The facts are that the kid seemed nice. He got decent grades, was involved in sports, not in any trouble besides the traffic tickets, and he did something really stupid and killed 3 of his friends while doing it.

Life has an element of luck. How teenage boys get past those years is the evidence for this.

After reading the thread on the car site about this, it really bothered me that there was such a focus on who was to blame. The parents, for being rich. Obviously they were negligent...

Well we all know very good parents with kids that do really stupid things. In fact, most of us know good parents with kids who have gone astray. We hope it's just a phase, and they'll outgrow it. Preacher's kids, cop's kids, soldier's kids....doesn't make a difference.

BESIDES! The kid was an adult!

Then they blamed the airstrip owners for not having tight enough security.

Then they blamed John Travolta for living there and drawing so much press. Then they complained the plane he owned was too big.

The facts are that the kid seemed nice. He got decent grades, was involved in sports, not in any trouble besides the traffic tickets, and he did something really stupid and killed 3 of his friends while doing it.

I'm with solveg on this one. For some reason, the knee-jerk response in the media is "something's wrong, someone's to blame." This was a tragic accident caused by a really bad decision. It happens all the time with teens and young adults driving like the hormone-ridden, inexperienced kids that they are.

Natural selection. Something tells me that kid was an ***hole.

What a stupid comment, I'm sure his parents would appreciate reading something as inconsiderate as this !!

That Z-1 could walk away from almost any car on the highway in those days. Are you kidding? ;)

What do you mean "almost"? :rolleyes:

When I was 17, my brother came home from Viet Nam and bought a Corvette. He let me borrow it one day. A friend and I got in and took it out to a nearby divided four-laner. Not an entirely straight road by any means. I very simply and directly tried to discover how fast it would go. I don't know what the speedo read but I remember the way the back end would seem to take off the ground on the curves. Just one instance from a generally insane youth. I'm no one to be pissing on teenagers no matter what they do.