shaunx
01-30-08, 01:04 AM
Hey all any one know that is there any side effects for whey protein...? my trainer told me to have that daily after workout..any advice will be great...
View Full Version : Whey protein????
ken cummings
01-30-08, 01:13 AM
I've used it (as part of other products) for years but then I am not lactose intolerant. If you have no problems with milk go for it.
sfcrossrider
01-30-08, 01:44 AM
The only side effect to whey is improved performance through recovery.
Az B
01-30-08, 07:00 AM
It's very hard on the kidneys. Not a problem with healthy kidneys, but keep in mind that several kidney diseases are sneaky. You may never know you have them until your kidneys are severely damaged. For example, diabetes or nephrosis of the kidneys.
Two things to consider:
Get checked out by a doctor. Check urine and/or blood for kidney function. Check for diabetes. And I would also check to see if you are voiding completely.
I would also consider that they whey protein is completely unecessary if you eat reasonably well. Piling on more protein than you need doesn't make you muscles bigger. Most of it is turned to glucose in your liver, the rest is evacuated, making your poop very expensive.
Az
Two things to consider:
Get checked out by a doctor. Check urine and/or blood for kidney function. Check for diabetes. And I would also check to see if you are voiding completely.
I would also consider that they whey protein is completely unecessary if you eat reasonably well. Piling on more protein than you need doesn't make you muscles bigger. Most of it is turned to glucose in your liver, the rest is evacuated, making your poop very expensive.
Az
Nickel
01-30-08, 10:19 AM
Watch out for whey gas.
Speedee
01-30-08, 10:24 AM
Whey Protein
"Another serious toxic byproduct is whey protein, a byproduct of the dairy industry. Whey is milk protein that is discarded from the production of cow milk, a serious toxin to the human body. You can commonly find whey protein in your commercial brand health food stores and local gyms and fitness centers. The dairy industry targets athletes for their whey protein byproduct; perhaps figuring athletes generally are not the brightest individuals. Regardless, whey protein has no business in the human body. It is a waste byproduct and toxin to the human body. Beware of all those protein bars and beverages containing whey. The dairy industry, like all other byproduct waste industries, are using people as trash dumpsters and canisters to rid itself of waste that would otherwise cost it millions of dollars to dispose of. "
Source: http://www.dherbs.com/articles/waste-products-160.html
"Another serious toxic byproduct is whey protein, a byproduct of the dairy industry. Whey is milk protein that is discarded from the production of cow milk, a serious toxin to the human body. You can commonly find whey protein in your commercial brand health food stores and local gyms and fitness centers. The dairy industry targets athletes for their whey protein byproduct; perhaps figuring athletes generally are not the brightest individuals. Regardless, whey protein has no business in the human body. It is a waste byproduct and toxin to the human body. Beware of all those protein bars and beverages containing whey. The dairy industry, like all other byproduct waste industries, are using people as trash dumpsters and canisters to rid itself of waste that would otherwise cost it millions of dollars to dispose of. "
Source: http://www.dherbs.com/articles/waste-products-160.html
ModoVincere
01-30-08, 10:28 AM
Whey Protein
"Another serious toxic byproduct is whey protein, a byproduct of the dairy industry. Whey is milk protein that is discarded from the production of cow milk, a serious toxin to the human body. You can commonly find whey protein in your commercial brand health food stores and local gyms and fitness centers. The dairy industry targets athletes for their whey protein byproduct; perhaps figuring athletes generally are not the brightest individuals. Regardless, whey protein has no business in the human body. It is a waste byproduct and toxin to the human body. Beware of all those protein bars and beverages containing whey. The dairy industry, like all other byproduct waste industries, are using people as trash dumpsters and canisters to rid itself of waste that would otherwise cost it millions of dollars to dispose of. "
Source: http://www.dherbs.com/articles/waste-products-160.html
There's all sorts of unreliable information on the web.
"Another serious toxic byproduct is whey protein, a byproduct of the dairy industry. Whey is milk protein that is discarded from the production of cow milk, a serious toxin to the human body. You can commonly find whey protein in your commercial brand health food stores and local gyms and fitness centers. The dairy industry targets athletes for their whey protein byproduct; perhaps figuring athletes generally are not the brightest individuals. Regardless, whey protein has no business in the human body. It is a waste byproduct and toxin to the human body. Beware of all those protein bars and beverages containing whey. The dairy industry, like all other byproduct waste industries, are using people as trash dumpsters and canisters to rid itself of waste that would otherwise cost it millions of dollars to dispose of. "
Source: http://www.dherbs.com/articles/waste-products-160.html
There's all sorts of unreliable information on the web.
thplmn72
01-30-08, 10:33 AM
I have takin whey protien on and off for years. I am and avid bodybiulder but my cholestoral went up and if you look at the label on the bottle it says 70% cholestoral right on the pakage. It's the only thing I can link to the problem.
ModoVincere
01-30-08, 12:24 PM
I have takin whey protien on and off for years. I am and avid bodybiulder but my cholestoral went up and if you look at the label on the bottle it says 70% cholestoral right on the pakage. It's the only thing I can link to the problem.
I would say that's a problem related to the specific brand of whey protein which you purchased. Cholesterol is not part of protein, it is an entirely different material. whey proteins can be found in different concentrations and different formulas from many different providers. Some are almost pure protein; some are sweeteend with aspartame (nutrasweet), some with sucrolose (splenda), and some with Acesulfame K. Some have flavors that are ok, some have flavors that are downright awful. Shop around for the one that meets your criteria.
I would say that's a problem related to the specific brand of whey protein which you purchased. Cholesterol is not part of protein, it is an entirely different material. whey proteins can be found in different concentrations and different formulas from many different providers. Some are almost pure protein; some are sweeteend with aspartame (nutrasweet), some with sucrolose (splenda), and some with Acesulfame K. Some have flavors that are ok, some have flavors that are downright awful. Shop around for the one that meets your criteria.
Someday_RN
01-30-08, 01:10 PM
Whey protein is great when you use it after strenous muscle builiding activity, it has also been shown to decrease muscle remodelling if you use it before a workout too. It is digested extremely quickly so after a hard workout it helps to build muscle mass and strength. It is also good to have some slow digesting protein on board as well that will kick in to help with muscle repair after the whey protein has done its job. If you want to build muscle or preserve muscle while weight training or other muscle building exercises whey protein is great
As for being hard on the kidneys that applies to someone that is going through renal failure. There have been cultures that have survived on a diet of mainly meat and fat and have survived very well throughout the ages. If you are on the list for a transplant or undergoing kidney failure then you should probably avoid protein as well as a lot of other things. Of course if your kidneys have already conked out then the problem is the your probably not getting enough protein. A much bigger concern for kidney failure is being overweight and having high blood pressure. If you keep yourself fit and don't go overboard you should not have a problem with your kidneys.
Eat the protein that you would normally eat in a day and substitute the whey for some of it. If you are only into eating natural foods then you should stay away from whey because it is highly processed very pure form of protein. If you want a more natural source of whey try cottage cheese.
The only side effect I have noticed is that I put on muslce easier and I get zits on my chest and shoulders.
If you want more info look for some scientific meta analyses done on whey protein, there are some informative ones out there.
As for being hard on the kidneys that applies to someone that is going through renal failure. There have been cultures that have survived on a diet of mainly meat and fat and have survived very well throughout the ages. If you are on the list for a transplant or undergoing kidney failure then you should probably avoid protein as well as a lot of other things. Of course if your kidneys have already conked out then the problem is the your probably not getting enough protein. A much bigger concern for kidney failure is being overweight and having high blood pressure. If you keep yourself fit and don't go overboard you should not have a problem with your kidneys.
Eat the protein that you would normally eat in a day and substitute the whey for some of it. If you are only into eating natural foods then you should stay away from whey because it is highly processed very pure form of protein. If you want a more natural source of whey try cottage cheese.
The only side effect I have noticed is that I put on muslce easier and I get zits on my chest and shoulders.
If you want more info look for some scientific meta analyses done on whey protein, there are some informative ones out there.
ModoVincere
01-30-08, 01:27 PM
The only side effect I have noticed is that I put on muslce easier and I get zits on my chest and shoulders.
If you want more info look for some scientific meta analyses done on whey protein, there are some informative ones out there.
Would this be an indication of increased steroidal activity? Such as higher levels of unbound Testosterone and perhaps even HGH related to the higher protein intake and the exercise? I know you don't have a study, but what is your thoughts related to this?
If you want more info look for some scientific meta analyses done on whey protein, there are some informative ones out there.
Would this be an indication of increased steroidal activity? Such as higher levels of unbound Testosterone and perhaps even HGH related to the higher protein intake and the exercise? I know you don't have a study, but what is your thoughts related to this?
Someday_RN
01-30-08, 05:07 PM
Would this be an indication of increased steroidal activity? Such as higher levels of unbound Testosterone and perhaps even HGH related to the higher protein intake and the exercise? I know you don't have a study, but what is your thoughts related to this?
I'm not a 100% sure, what I have noticed is anecdotal so it is up for interpretation. But when I am not burdened by school work :( I do weights religiously. I noticed that I was not really getting stronger, I had plateaued. I did everything the same but I added whey protein before and after workouts and I noticed my strength and size increasing.
As for the zits I never though about it. I know more weight bearing exercise increases testosterone whereas endurance exercise decrease it, so it could be. I always though it was the protein powder because it is the only variable that I changed and I started to notice zits, and I am long past puberty. Plus, when I was pubescent I only got zits in the winter, never in the summer, and I hit the weights hard in the summer and that is when I supplement.
Maybe what you say is right about hormones, I could have de-stabalised some sex hormones, but I could have been vitamin deficient to, maybe a lack of vitamin A. I really don't have a clue but I think I am curious now and will have to try and find out.
Thanks for getting me thinking, now I have a reason not to study for the 5 exams and 3 papers that are due in the next 2 weeks:D
I'm not a 100% sure, what I have noticed is anecdotal so it is up for interpretation. But when I am not burdened by school work :( I do weights religiously. I noticed that I was not really getting stronger, I had plateaued. I did everything the same but I added whey protein before and after workouts and I noticed my strength and size increasing.
As for the zits I never though about it. I know more weight bearing exercise increases testosterone whereas endurance exercise decrease it, so it could be. I always though it was the protein powder because it is the only variable that I changed and I started to notice zits, and I am long past puberty. Plus, when I was pubescent I only got zits in the winter, never in the summer, and I hit the weights hard in the summer and that is when I supplement.
Maybe what you say is right about hormones, I could have de-stabalised some sex hormones, but I could have been vitamin deficient to, maybe a lack of vitamin A. I really don't have a clue but I think I am curious now and will have to try and find out.
Thanks for getting me thinking, now I have a reason not to study for the 5 exams and 3 papers that are due in the next 2 weeks:D
ModoVincere
02-01-08, 08:22 AM
I'm not a 100% sure, what I have noticed is anecdotal so it is up for interpretation. But when I am not burdened by school work :( I do weights religiously. I noticed that I was not really getting stronger, I had plateaued. I did everything the same but I added whey protein before and after workouts and I noticed my strength and size increasing.
As for the zits I never though about it. I know more weight bearing exercise increases testosterone whereas endurance exercise decrease it, so it could be. I always though it was the protein powder because it is the only variable that I changed and I started to notice zits, and I am long past puberty. Plus, when I was pubescent I only got zits in the winter, never in the summer, and I hit the weights hard in the summer and that is when I supplement.
Maybe what you say is right about hormones, I could have de-stabalised some sex hormones, but I could have been vitamin deficient to, maybe a lack of vitamin A. I really don't have a clue but I think I am curious now and will have to try and find out.
Thanks for getting me thinking, now I have a reason not to study for the 5 exams and 3 papers that are due in the next 2 weeks:D
Can I get a 15 page report on your findings? I'd like it on my desk 3 days after those 5 exams :D
As for the zits I never though about it. I know more weight bearing exercise increases testosterone whereas endurance exercise decrease it, so it could be. I always though it was the protein powder because it is the only variable that I changed and I started to notice zits, and I am long past puberty. Plus, when I was pubescent I only got zits in the winter, never in the summer, and I hit the weights hard in the summer and that is when I supplement.
Maybe what you say is right about hormones, I could have de-stabalised some sex hormones, but I could have been vitamin deficient to, maybe a lack of vitamin A. I really don't have a clue but I think I am curious now and will have to try and find out.
Thanks for getting me thinking, now I have a reason not to study for the 5 exams and 3 papers that are due in the next 2 weeks:D
Can I get a 15 page report on your findings? I'd like it on my desk 3 days after those 5 exams :D
Univega
02-01-08, 12:46 PM
Whey Protein - Supplement Review
By John M. Berardi
First published at www.johnberardi.com, Dec 27 2003.
Nutrient:
Whey Protein
What is it?
Whey protein is a milk protein extract recognized for its excellent amino acid profile, high cysteine content, rapid digestion, and interesting peptides (lacto globulins, immunoglobulins, lactoferrin, etc).
What does it do?
Whey protein, like other protein sources, provides a rich amino acid supply to the body. Current data suggest that exercise can increase protein needs and that increased protein intakes can improve the response to exercise training. Whey protein is rapidly digested and this property of whey makes it optimal for post-exercise consumption since rapid increases in blood amino acid concentrations can lead to acute increases in protein synthesis. Furthermore, since whey protein contains a good amount of cysteine, whey protein may contribute to improved antioxidant defense (via increases in glutathione) in the body.
Where does it come from?
Whey protein makes up approximately 20% of the protein in milk. The beneficial properties of whey protein are partly a result of the amino acid composition and partly a result of the active peptides (the unique amino acid chain configurations that make up whey). In order to prevent the denaturing (or destruction) of the interesting peptides, appropriate processing techniques are required. The best processing includes ion exchange whey protein isolation (yielding approximately 90% protein with only 10% additional ingredients including lactose and fat) and cross flow micro filtration, yielding approximately 99% whey protein and high calcium content.
How do I use it?
Whey protein is a convenient way to supplement one’s whole food diet with additional protein and amino acids. Usually I suggest using anywhere between 20 and 40g per day of supplemental whey protein. After exercise, whey protein is especially useful as its rapid digestion and absorption provides the body with a rapid influx of amino acids for improving protein status. Protein supplements, however, should never be used as one’s exclusive protein source.
Credibility Rating -- 4/4
Rating Scale:
4/4 This supplement/regimen has significant scientific backing and can
produce significant benefits in most individuals.
3/4 There exists a sound theoretical basis for its ergogenic effects; may
work in certain individuals; further research is needed to elucidate
their respective effects.
2/4 Science is equivocal, animal data and human data may be conflicting;
or mechanism of action may be unclear.
1/4 Little or no science as well as poor theoretical foundation.
Scientific References:
1. Alting, AC et al. Formation of disulfide bonds in acid-induced gels of preheated whey protein isolate. J Agric Food Chem, 48(10), 5001-7, 2000.
2. Boirie, Y et al. Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion. Proc Natl Acad Sci. 94, 14930-14935, 1997.
3. Bounous, G and Gold P. The biological activity of undenatured dietary whey proteins: role of glutathione. Clin Invest Med, 4(4), 296-309, 1991.
4. Coste, M and Tome, D. Milk proteins with physiological activities: II. Opioid and immunostimulating peptides derived from milk protein. Lait, 71, 241-247, 1991.
5. Dangin, M et al. The digestion rate of protein is an independent regulating factor of postprandial protein retention. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab, 280(2), E340-348, 2001.
6. Demling, R and DeSanti, L. Increased protein intake during the recovery phase after severe burns increases body weight gain and muscle function. J Burn Care Rehabil, 16, 161-168, 1998.
7. Demling, RH and DeSanti, L. Effect of a hypocaloric diet, increased protein intake and resistance training on lean mass gains and fat mass loss in overweight police officers. Ann Nutr Metab. 44. 21-29, 2000.
8. Desrosiers, T and Savoie L. Extent of damage to amino acid availability of whey protein heated with sugar. J Dairy Res, 58(4), 431-41, 1991.
9. Enomoto, A et al. Milk whey protein fed as a constituent of the diet induced both oral tolerance and a systemic humoral response, while heat-denatured whey protein induced only oral tolerance. Clin Immunol Immunopathol, 66(2), 136-142, 1993.
10. Hambraeus, L. Importance of milk proteins in human nutrition: Physiological aspects. In Milk Proteins ’84. Proceedings of the International Congress on Milk Proteins. Galesloot, TE and Tinbergen BJ (eds). Pudoc Wageningen, Luxemburg, 1985.
11. Kinsella, JE and Whitehead, DM. Proteins in whey: chemical, physical, and functional properties. Adv Food Nutr Res, 33, 343-438, 1989.
12. Law, AJ and Lever, J. Effect of pH on the thermal denaturation of whey proteins in milk. J Agric Food Chem, 48(3), 672-679, 2000.
13. Mahe, S et al. Gastrojejunal kinetics and the digestion of [15N]beta-lactoglobulin and casein in humans: the influence of the nature and quantity of the protein. Am J Clin Nutr, 63(4), 546-552, 1996.
14. Rossano, R, D’Elia, A, Riccio, P. One-step separation from lactose: recovery and purification of major cheese-whey proteins by hydroxyapatite--a flexible procedure suitable for small- and medium-scale preparations. Protein Expr Purif 2001 Feb;21(1):165-9.
15. Ziemlanski, S et al. Balanced intraintestinal nutrition: digestion, absorption and biological value of selected preparations of milk proteins. Acta Physiol Pol, 29(6), 543-556, 1978.
© 2002 - 2005 Science Link, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
By John M. Berardi
First published at www.johnberardi.com, Dec 27 2003.
Nutrient:
Whey Protein
What is it?
Whey protein is a milk protein extract recognized for its excellent amino acid profile, high cysteine content, rapid digestion, and interesting peptides (lacto globulins, immunoglobulins, lactoferrin, etc).
What does it do?
Whey protein, like other protein sources, provides a rich amino acid supply to the body. Current data suggest that exercise can increase protein needs and that increased protein intakes can improve the response to exercise training. Whey protein is rapidly digested and this property of whey makes it optimal for post-exercise consumption since rapid increases in blood amino acid concentrations can lead to acute increases in protein synthesis. Furthermore, since whey protein contains a good amount of cysteine, whey protein may contribute to improved antioxidant defense (via increases in glutathione) in the body.
Where does it come from?
Whey protein makes up approximately 20% of the protein in milk. The beneficial properties of whey protein are partly a result of the amino acid composition and partly a result of the active peptides (the unique amino acid chain configurations that make up whey). In order to prevent the denaturing (or destruction) of the interesting peptides, appropriate processing techniques are required. The best processing includes ion exchange whey protein isolation (yielding approximately 90% protein with only 10% additional ingredients including lactose and fat) and cross flow micro filtration, yielding approximately 99% whey protein and high calcium content.
How do I use it?
Whey protein is a convenient way to supplement one’s whole food diet with additional protein and amino acids. Usually I suggest using anywhere between 20 and 40g per day of supplemental whey protein. After exercise, whey protein is especially useful as its rapid digestion and absorption provides the body with a rapid influx of amino acids for improving protein status. Protein supplements, however, should never be used as one’s exclusive protein source.
Credibility Rating -- 4/4
Rating Scale:
4/4 This supplement/regimen has significant scientific backing and can
produce significant benefits in most individuals.
3/4 There exists a sound theoretical basis for its ergogenic effects; may
work in certain individuals; further research is needed to elucidate
their respective effects.
2/4 Science is equivocal, animal data and human data may be conflicting;
or mechanism of action may be unclear.
1/4 Little or no science as well as poor theoretical foundation.
Scientific References:
1. Alting, AC et al. Formation of disulfide bonds in acid-induced gels of preheated whey protein isolate. J Agric Food Chem, 48(10), 5001-7, 2000.
2. Boirie, Y et al. Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion. Proc Natl Acad Sci. 94, 14930-14935, 1997.
3. Bounous, G and Gold P. The biological activity of undenatured dietary whey proteins: role of glutathione. Clin Invest Med, 4(4), 296-309, 1991.
4. Coste, M and Tome, D. Milk proteins with physiological activities: II. Opioid and immunostimulating peptides derived from milk protein. Lait, 71, 241-247, 1991.
5. Dangin, M et al. The digestion rate of protein is an independent regulating factor of postprandial protein retention. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab, 280(2), E340-348, 2001.
6. Demling, R and DeSanti, L. Increased protein intake during the recovery phase after severe burns increases body weight gain and muscle function. J Burn Care Rehabil, 16, 161-168, 1998.
7. Demling, RH and DeSanti, L. Effect of a hypocaloric diet, increased protein intake and resistance training on lean mass gains and fat mass loss in overweight police officers. Ann Nutr Metab. 44. 21-29, 2000.
8. Desrosiers, T and Savoie L. Extent of damage to amino acid availability of whey protein heated with sugar. J Dairy Res, 58(4), 431-41, 1991.
9. Enomoto, A et al. Milk whey protein fed as a constituent of the diet induced both oral tolerance and a systemic humoral response, while heat-denatured whey protein induced only oral tolerance. Clin Immunol Immunopathol, 66(2), 136-142, 1993.
10. Hambraeus, L. Importance of milk proteins in human nutrition: Physiological aspects. In Milk Proteins ’84. Proceedings of the International Congress on Milk Proteins. Galesloot, TE and Tinbergen BJ (eds). Pudoc Wageningen, Luxemburg, 1985.
11. Kinsella, JE and Whitehead, DM. Proteins in whey: chemical, physical, and functional properties. Adv Food Nutr Res, 33, 343-438, 1989.
12. Law, AJ and Lever, J. Effect of pH on the thermal denaturation of whey proteins in milk. J Agric Food Chem, 48(3), 672-679, 2000.
13. Mahe, S et al. Gastrojejunal kinetics and the digestion of [15N]beta-lactoglobulin and casein in humans: the influence of the nature and quantity of the protein. Am J Clin Nutr, 63(4), 546-552, 1996.
14. Rossano, R, D’Elia, A, Riccio, P. One-step separation from lactose: recovery and purification of major cheese-whey proteins by hydroxyapatite--a flexible procedure suitable for small- and medium-scale preparations. Protein Expr Purif 2001 Feb;21(1):165-9.
15. Ziemlanski, S et al. Balanced intraintestinal nutrition: digestion, absorption and biological value of selected preparations of milk proteins. Acta Physiol Pol, 29(6), 543-556, 1978.
© 2002 - 2005 Science Link, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
'nother
02-03-08, 09:23 PM
Whey Protein
"Another serious toxic byproduct is whey protein, a byproduct of the dairy industry. Whey is milk protein that is discarded from the production of cow milk, a serious toxin to the human body. You can commonly find whey protein in your commercial brand health food stores and local gyms and fitness centers. The dairy industry targets athletes for their whey protein byproduct; perhaps figuring athletes generally are not the brightest individuals. Regardless, whey protein has no business in the human body. It is a waste byproduct and toxin to the human body. Beware of all those protein bars and beverages containing whey. The dairy industry, like all other byproduct waste industries, are using people as trash dumpsters and canisters to rid itself of waste that would otherwise cost it millions of dollars to dispose of. "
Source:
Wow, that's up there with some of the most moronic and uninformed statements I've ever read in here. I'm sure it's put up out of altruism, though...certainly not to sell their own products (it's just a happy coincidence).
Whey protein is fine and well-tolerated by most people. It can be a very convenient way of increasing protein consumption if you're into that. It is probably a good idea to avoid it if you are lactose intolerant as it may contain some lactose. And obviously it *must* be avoided if you have milk protein allergy.
"Another serious toxic byproduct is whey protein, a byproduct of the dairy industry. Whey is milk protein that is discarded from the production of cow milk, a serious toxin to the human body. You can commonly find whey protein in your commercial brand health food stores and local gyms and fitness centers. The dairy industry targets athletes for their whey protein byproduct; perhaps figuring athletes generally are not the brightest individuals. Regardless, whey protein has no business in the human body. It is a waste byproduct and toxin to the human body. Beware of all those protein bars and beverages containing whey. The dairy industry, like all other byproduct waste industries, are using people as trash dumpsters and canisters to rid itself of waste that would otherwise cost it millions of dollars to dispose of. "
Source:
Wow, that's up there with some of the most moronic and uninformed statements I've ever read in here. I'm sure it's put up out of altruism, though...certainly not to sell their own products (it's just a happy coincidence).
Whey protein is fine and well-tolerated by most people. It can be a very convenient way of increasing protein consumption if you're into that. It is probably a good idea to avoid it if you are lactose intolerant as it may contain some lactose. And obviously it *must* be avoided if you have milk protein allergy.
shaunx
02-04-08, 08:10 AM
I dont have anything with milk..but the problem is that my trainer told me that if i am serving wheyprotein with milk my fat will get increased...anyways thanks for your time and reply..cheers
'nother
02-04-08, 09:22 AM
I dont have anything with milk..but the problem is that my trainer told me that if i am serving wheyprotein with milk my fat will get increased...anyways thanks for your time and reply..cheers
Perhaps your trainer is not aware that there are low-fat versions of whey protein, in addition to NON-fat varieties of milk?
Perhaps your trainer is not aware that there are low-fat versions of whey protein, in addition to NON-fat varieties of milk?
Vetboy
02-06-08, 07:16 PM
It's very hard on the kidneys. Not a problem with healthy kidneys, but keep in mind that several kidney diseases are sneaky. You may never know you have them until your kidneys are severely damaged. For example, diabetes or nephrosis of the kidneys.
Two things to consider:
Get checked out by a doctor. Check urine and/or blood for kidney function. Check for diabetes. And I would also check to see if you are voiding completely.
I would also consider that they whey protein is completely unecessary if you eat reasonably well. Piling on more protein than you need doesn't make you muscles bigger. Most of it is turned to glucose in your liver, the rest is evacuated, making your poop very expensive.
Az
Careful with that advise. Protein is not hard on the kidneys. Kidneys which aren't functioning well cannot efficiently filter urea (a breakdown product of protein) resulting in high urea in the body. High urea in the body makes you feel crappy. Therefore, with bad kindeys, a low protein diet is recommended, not because protein is bad for the kidneys, but to prevent the build-up of urea. Protein itself has not effect on the kindeys.
Whey protein has no more side effect than milk.
Joe
Two things to consider:
Get checked out by a doctor. Check urine and/or blood for kidney function. Check for diabetes. And I would also check to see if you are voiding completely.
I would also consider that they whey protein is completely unecessary if you eat reasonably well. Piling on more protein than you need doesn't make you muscles bigger. Most of it is turned to glucose in your liver, the rest is evacuated, making your poop very expensive.
Az
Careful with that advise. Protein is not hard on the kidneys. Kidneys which aren't functioning well cannot efficiently filter urea (a breakdown product of protein) resulting in high urea in the body. High urea in the body makes you feel crappy. Therefore, with bad kindeys, a low protein diet is recommended, not because protein is bad for the kidneys, but to prevent the build-up of urea. Protein itself has not effect on the kindeys.
Whey protein has no more side effect than milk.
Joe
doughboy
02-06-08, 07:58 PM
For those who are lactose intolerant, there is whey isolate which pretty much all protein supplement companies offer as an alternative. It's more expensive than regular whey, of course.
Careful with that advise. Protein is not hard on the kidneys....Whey protein has no more side effect than milk.
Joe
I do NOT agree with the above. My peers at bodybuilding.com, however, would unanimously agree that protein causes no long-term damage while my friends who are practicing doctors do warn of kidney damage. The argument goes both ways: protein is broken down into urea and nitrogen and then benignly excreted...versus...high amounts of protein intake causes kidney stones. Also, the increased filtration needed to remove urea & nitrogen causes elevated kidney function and stresses the organ. I've come across enough studies that hint at the possibility of kidney damage BUT there are no definitive conclusions. For every study you find saying there is damage, there's another study proving otherwise.
If you decide to supplement with whey, be sure to hydrate properly. I also agree with speaking to your doctor about possible problems, such as testing for kidney function (BUN and creatinine) and discussing any family history of diabetes/high BP. Be careful if you decide to have more than 1.5g/kg (bodyweight)/day of protein. Also, insist on regular kidney function tests once you're on the supplement. I know of bodybuilders who pay out of pocket to have their blood tested for BUN and creatinine levels. Of course, they are on a "stack" of supplements including but not limited to pro-hormones/creatine/b-alanine/etc.
If you are concerned, why not just drink an extra glass of milk or eat a bit more meat? The typical American diet usually contains quite a bit of protein though.
Careful with that advise. Protein is not hard on the kidneys....Whey protein has no more side effect than milk.
Joe
I do NOT agree with the above. My peers at bodybuilding.com, however, would unanimously agree that protein causes no long-term damage while my friends who are practicing doctors do warn of kidney damage. The argument goes both ways: protein is broken down into urea and nitrogen and then benignly excreted...versus...high amounts of protein intake causes kidney stones. Also, the increased filtration needed to remove urea & nitrogen causes elevated kidney function and stresses the organ. I've come across enough studies that hint at the possibility of kidney damage BUT there are no definitive conclusions. For every study you find saying there is damage, there's another study proving otherwise.
If you decide to supplement with whey, be sure to hydrate properly. I also agree with speaking to your doctor about possible problems, such as testing for kidney function (BUN and creatinine) and discussing any family history of diabetes/high BP. Be careful if you decide to have more than 1.5g/kg (bodyweight)/day of protein. Also, insist on regular kidney function tests once you're on the supplement. I know of bodybuilders who pay out of pocket to have their blood tested for BUN and creatinine levels. Of course, they are on a "stack" of supplements including but not limited to pro-hormones/creatine/b-alanine/etc.
If you are concerned, why not just drink an extra glass of milk or eat a bit more meat? The typical American diet usually contains quite a bit of protein though.
Vetboy
02-06-08, 08:34 PM
For those who are lactose intolerant, there is whey isolate which pretty much all protein supplement companies offer as an alternative. It's more expensive than regular whey, of course.
I do NOT agree with the above. My peers at bodybuilding.com, however, would unanimously agree that protein causes no long-term damage while my friends who are practicing doctors do warn of kidney damage. The argument goes both ways: protein is broken down into urea and nitrogen and then benignly excreted...versus...high amounts of protein intake causes kidney stones. Also, the increased filtration needed to remove urea & nitrogen causes elevated kidney function and stresses the organ. I've come across enough studies that hint at the possibility of kidney damage BUT there are no definitive conclusions. For every study you find saying there is damage, there's another study proving otherwise.
If you decide to supplement with whey, be sure to hydrate properly. I also agree with speaking to your doctor about possible problems, such as testing for kidney function (BUN and creatinine) and discussing any family history of diabetes/high BP. Be careful if you decide to supplement with more than 1.5g/kg (bodyweight)/day. Also, insist on regular kidney function tests once you're on the supplement. I know of bodybuilders who pay out of pocket to have their blood tested for BUN and creatinine levels. Of course, they are on a "stack" of supplements including but not limited to pro-hormones/creatine/b-alanine/etc.
If you are concerned, why not just drink an extra glass of milk or eat a bit more meat? The typical American diet usually contains quite a bit of protein though.
Fair enough, but lets be realistic here. The OP is inquiring about whey protein after a ride. I take this to mean adding a scoop to milk or juice or whatever and chugging away. Your peers at bodybuilding.com are probably taking far in excess of this (and no doubt way more than most cyclists would take). Assuming a "normal" diet, adding a scoop or 2 of whey protein daily will have no effect on kidneys. If the OP had asked about eating a steak after every ride, I doubt even you doctor friends would have warned against it lest it cause kidney damage. Why should it be any different for whey protein?
My point was don't scare the OP away from a scoop of whey by suggesting that it will harm his kidneys.
I do NOT agree with the above. My peers at bodybuilding.com, however, would unanimously agree that protein causes no long-term damage while my friends who are practicing doctors do warn of kidney damage. The argument goes both ways: protein is broken down into urea and nitrogen and then benignly excreted...versus...high amounts of protein intake causes kidney stones. Also, the increased filtration needed to remove urea & nitrogen causes elevated kidney function and stresses the organ. I've come across enough studies that hint at the possibility of kidney damage BUT there are no definitive conclusions. For every study you find saying there is damage, there's another study proving otherwise.
If you decide to supplement with whey, be sure to hydrate properly. I also agree with speaking to your doctor about possible problems, such as testing for kidney function (BUN and creatinine) and discussing any family history of diabetes/high BP. Be careful if you decide to supplement with more than 1.5g/kg (bodyweight)/day. Also, insist on regular kidney function tests once you're on the supplement. I know of bodybuilders who pay out of pocket to have their blood tested for BUN and creatinine levels. Of course, they are on a "stack" of supplements including but not limited to pro-hormones/creatine/b-alanine/etc.
If you are concerned, why not just drink an extra glass of milk or eat a bit more meat? The typical American diet usually contains quite a bit of protein though.
Fair enough, but lets be realistic here. The OP is inquiring about whey protein after a ride. I take this to mean adding a scoop to milk or juice or whatever and chugging away. Your peers at bodybuilding.com are probably taking far in excess of this (and no doubt way more than most cyclists would take). Assuming a "normal" diet, adding a scoop or 2 of whey protein daily will have no effect on kidneys. If the OP had asked about eating a steak after every ride, I doubt even you doctor friends would have warned against it lest it cause kidney damage. Why should it be any different for whey protein?
My point was don't scare the OP away from a scoop of whey by suggesting that it will harm his kidneys.
CdCf
02-07-08, 01:03 AM
Protein is protein. If you take too much of it, it will put unnecessary strain on your kidneys, no doubt. But if you don't eat enough protein otherwise, topping up with whey doesn't harm your kidneys any more than more protein through your normal diet does.
doughboy
02-07-08, 12:41 PM
Fair enough, but lets be realistic here. The OP is inquiring about whey protein after a ride. I take this to mean adding a scoop to milk or juice or whatever and chugging away....
My point was don't scare the OP away from a scoop of whey by suggesting that it will harm his kidneys.
I understand. I just want him to explore any possible complications with his doctor before he begins protein supplementation. For those prone to kidney disease (family history of diabetes or high BP), it's best to keep a low to moderate protein consumption. I know I'm being conservative, but not knowing anything about the OP, I'd err towards that.
I will agree that one scoop (usually ~20g protein) is unlikely to cause any problems.
My point was don't scare the OP away from a scoop of whey by suggesting that it will harm his kidneys.
I understand. I just want him to explore any possible complications with his doctor before he begins protein supplementation. For those prone to kidney disease (family history of diabetes or high BP), it's best to keep a low to moderate protein consumption. I know I'm being conservative, but not knowing anything about the OP, I'd err towards that.
I will agree that one scoop (usually ~20g protein) is unlikely to cause any problems.
felt1
02-07-08, 08:40 PM
Whey Protein
"Another serious toxic byproduct is whey protein, a byproduct of the dairy industry. Whey is milk protein that is discarded from the production of cow milk, a serious toxin to the human body. You can commonly find whey protein in your commercial brand health food stores and local gyms and fitness centers. The dairy industry targets athletes for their whey protein byproduct; perhaps figuring athletes generally are not the brightest individuals. Regardless, whey protein has no business in the human body. It is a waste byproduct and toxin to the human body. Beware of all those protein bars and beverages containing whey. The dairy industry, like all other byproduct waste industries, are using people as trash dumpsters and canisters to rid itself of waste that would otherwise cost it millions of dollars to dispose of. "
Source: http://www.dherbs.com/articles/waste-products-160.html
Bull Sh!t
"Another serious toxic byproduct is whey protein, a byproduct of the dairy industry. Whey is milk protein that is discarded from the production of cow milk, a serious toxin to the human body. You can commonly find whey protein in your commercial brand health food stores and local gyms and fitness centers. The dairy industry targets athletes for their whey protein byproduct; perhaps figuring athletes generally are not the brightest individuals. Regardless, whey protein has no business in the human body. It is a waste byproduct and toxin to the human body. Beware of all those protein bars and beverages containing whey. The dairy industry, like all other byproduct waste industries, are using people as trash dumpsters and canisters to rid itself of waste that would otherwise cost it millions of dollars to dispose of. "
Source: http://www.dherbs.com/articles/waste-products-160.html
Bull Sh!t
ModoVincere
02-08-08, 08:43 AM
I understand. I just want him to explore any possible complications with his doctor before he begins protein supplementation. For those prone to kidney disease (family history of diabetes or high BP), it's best to keep a low to moderate protein consumption. I know I'm being conservative, but not knowing anything about the OP, I'd err towards that.
I will agree that one scoop (usually ~20g protein) is unlikely to cause any problems.
Last I heard (from my Dr.), a moderate intake of protein (20% or so of calories for a 2000Kcal/day diet) is not considered harmful unless you already have kidney damage. I am a diabetic, so this is something I worry about. However, since Diabetics are generally steered towards a low fat diet, it can be difficult to get adequate protein intake for an active person, such as a body builder or cyclists. Given that it can be difficult to get adequate protein without excess fat consumption through whole foods, protein supplements can be quite handy.
I will agree that one scoop (usually ~20g protein) is unlikely to cause any problems.
Last I heard (from my Dr.), a moderate intake of protein (20% or so of calories for a 2000Kcal/day diet) is not considered harmful unless you already have kidney damage. I am a diabetic, so this is something I worry about. However, since Diabetics are generally steered towards a low fat diet, it can be difficult to get adequate protein intake for an active person, such as a body builder or cyclists. Given that it can be difficult to get adequate protein without excess fat consumption through whole foods, protein supplements can be quite handy.
mateo44
02-08-08, 09:38 AM
Whey Protein
"Another serious toxic byproduct is whey protein, a byproduct of the dairy industry. Whey is milk protein that is discarded from the production of cow milk, a serious toxin to the human body. You can commonly find whey protein in your commercial brand health food stores and local gyms and fitness centers. The dairy industry targets athletes for their whey protein byproduct; perhaps figuring athletes generally are not the brightest individuals. Regardless, whey protein has no business in the human body. It is a waste byproduct and toxin to the human body. Beware of all those protein bars and beverages containing whey. The dairy industry, like all other byproduct waste industries, are using people as trash dumpsters and canisters to rid itself of waste that would otherwise cost it millions of dollars to dispose of. "
Source: http://www.dherbs.com/articles/waste-products-160.html
From the same, clearly science-based, web site cited above:
"The liver holds ANGER. The pancreas holds BITTERNESS and REGRET. The heart holds SORROW, JEALOUSY, and GRIEF. The kidneys hold FEAR."
"Another serious toxic byproduct is whey protein, a byproduct of the dairy industry. Whey is milk protein that is discarded from the production of cow milk, a serious toxin to the human body. You can commonly find whey protein in your commercial brand health food stores and local gyms and fitness centers. The dairy industry targets athletes for their whey protein byproduct; perhaps figuring athletes generally are not the brightest individuals. Regardless, whey protein has no business in the human body. It is a waste byproduct and toxin to the human body. Beware of all those protein bars and beverages containing whey. The dairy industry, like all other byproduct waste industries, are using people as trash dumpsters and canisters to rid itself of waste that would otherwise cost it millions of dollars to dispose of. "
Source: http://www.dherbs.com/articles/waste-products-160.html
From the same, clearly science-based, web site cited above:
"The liver holds ANGER. The pancreas holds BITTERNESS and REGRET. The heart holds SORROW, JEALOUSY, and GRIEF. The kidneys hold FEAR."
Univega
02-08-08, 02:52 PM
From John Berardi's website:
By John M Berardi
First published at www.t-mag.com, Sep 5 2003.
Almost all long-term weightlifters have gone through it. In an effort to be proactive about our health, we go to the doctor for a routine check-up or to delve a little deeper into what’s going on physiologically and wham! The doc tells us that our kidneys are about to explode! And then, after the shocking news about our main filtration system, the doc lets us know that we may have had a heart attack! That’s right, according to our doc, our high protein diets are about to kill us.
What in the wide, wide, world of amino acids is going on? After all, many of the well-educated and progressive sports nutritionists have been recommending higher protein diets for years. And since researchers have demonstrated repeatedly that higher protein diets help maintain a positive nitrogen status in weight trainers and athletes, high protein diets can’t be all that bad, can they?
Well, doctors often think so. And let’s not make the mistake of thinking that these doctors are "idiots" or lost in the dark ages of medical practice, probably blood letting to release the evil humors. It’s not that simple. The truth of the matter is this: Weight training and higher protein diets do impact certain blood markers of health function, but it’s my contention that in weight trainers, these markers aren't nearly as alarming as many general practitioners think.
Therefore, without further ado, I’d like to present a letter that all doctors and parents should read before taking an alarmist approach to a patient or teenage weightlifter’s blood work. This letter is inspired by the countless emails I’ve received over the last few years from frantic patients who have been told that their health is being jeopardized by their high protein diets when it’s most certainly not!
For the adults in the audience, you certainly have the power and discretion to make your own choices with respect to your health. Unfortunately, many of the emails I get are from teens whose parents control the protein purse strings. For them, it’s not a matter of choice. Therefore, this letter is written in order that their parents are better able to understand the facts and make an informed decision.
Dear Mom and Dad,
I appreciate that you're taking an interest in your child’s health. The fact that you're questioning the assumptions inherent in the weight lifting community is commendable and hopefully will instill in your child the ability to question established norms and to verify the veracity of the claims issued by the self-proclaimed bodybuilding "gurus." After all, blindly following—without proper discretion—what all the other "meatheads" are doing can definitely lead to problems.
In addition, I thank you for your objectivity in seeking out the truth (or the information that comes as close to the truth as we can currently get). It’s difficult to remain objective in today’s society where we are easily influenced by the moods and alarmist nature of our current media machine.
With respect to your concerns, no doubt brought on by the concern of a well-intentioned physician or by the results of clinical assessment (i.e. blood work), I’d like to address the relevant issues below.
ISSUE #1 — Many physicians believe that high protein diets cause kidney dysfunction
RESPONSE #1 — This is FALSE according to everything science now knows to be true. This presumption states that if you take a healthy person and put them on a high protein diet, the protein will somehow negatively influence the kidney, damaging it and causing renal disease. To this end, there is absolutely no data in healthy adults suggesting that a high protein intake causes the onset of renal (kidney) dysfunction. There aren’t even any correlational studies showing this effect in healthy people.
Any studies that show a correlation between renal (kidney) dysfunction and protein intake are in those with some type of diagnosed, pre-existing renal (kidney) disease like diabetic nephropathy, glomerular lesions, etc. Even research into protein restriction for renal patients can be controversial. (Shils, Modern Nutr in Health & Dis, 1999).
Besides, you’ll likely recognize a serious pre-existing kidney condition; the signs and symptoms will clue you in long before you happen upon it with a routine blood test (especially if there's a noted family history of diabetes mellitus and hypertension).
Since an exhaustive search of the published literature will likely not yield a single study showing that the amount of protein in the diet causes, or is correlated with, the onset of renal dysfunction in otherwise healthy individuals, the fact that this notion prevails is puzzling to say the least!
But even if a doctor were to find an obscure reference that might suggest a relationship between a high-protein diet and kidney disease, there are numerous studies showing otherwise. Here are a few of them:
a) Ann Intern Med 2003 Mar 18;138(6):460-7
The impact of protein intake on renal function decline in women with normal renal function or mild renal insufficiency.
Knight EL, Stampfer MJ, Hankinson SE, Spiegelman D, Curhan GC.
b) Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2000 Mar;10(1):28-38
Do regular high protein diets have potential health risks on kidney function in athletes?
Poortmans JR, Dellalieux O.
c) Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1999 Nov;23(11):1170-7
Changes in renal function during weight loss induced by high vs low-protein low-fat diets in overweight subjects.
Skov AR, Toubro S, Bulow J, Krabbe K, Parving HH, Astrup A.
d) Eur J Clin Nutr 1996 Nov;50(11):734-40
Effect of chronic dietary protein intake on the renal function in healthy subjects.
Brandle E, Sieberth HG, Hautmann RE.
e) Am J Kidney Dis 2003 Mar;41(3):580-7
Association of dietary protein intake and microalbuminuria in healthy adults: Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. "Dietary protein intake was not associated with microalbuminuria in normotensive or nondiabetic persons."
If you’re interested, these studies can be accessed at www.pubmed.com.
ISSUE #2 — Many physicians believe that because high protein diets can worsen the condition of those who already suffer from kidney dysfunction, it only stands to reason that this should be true in healthy people.
RESPONSE #2 — This is also FALSE! Much of the speculation about kidney dysfunction associated with high protein diets comes from early nutritional studies in renal patients (patients who already have kidney disease).
In these individuals, when high protein diets are given as part of total parenteral nutrition—or tube feedings—these diets exacerbated their renal (kidney) problems. From these data, some physicians and nutritionists began to speculate (sometimes erroneously) that increased protein in the diet could be harmful to even those with healthy kidneys.
While there are hundreds of studies showing that high protein diets are bad for kidney patients, I believe that a "leap" from clinical patients to healthy patients isn't warranted. It’s this leap that has been the cause of the persistent but slowly dying (sorry for the word selection) idea that high protein diets could harm the kidneys.
Again, there's no evidence whatsoever that high protein diets will harm the kidneys of a healthy weightlifter. This is about as ridiculous as someone suggesting that because eating certain types of fiber can worsen the GI symptoms of someone with irritable bowel syndrome, fiber must cause irritable bowl syndrome in otherwise healthy people.
ISSUE #3 — Kidneys DO change to adapt to high protein diets.
RESPONSE #3 — Some studies in healthy individuals do show an alteration of kidney function with very high protein diets. However, it's important to note that these changes are not reported as negative or "adverse." Instead, they seem to be structural adaptations to increased filtration (something the kidneys are doing all the time anyway).
If the kidney didn’t respond this way, most clinicians would think something was wrong. Just like in weight training, tissues adapt to the demands put on them. Therefore, just because the kidneys have to "work" harder, doesn’t mean that this is a negative thing. After all, what happens when muscles work harder? Well, they adapt to the demands and become bigger, stronger, or more efficient. Therefore, the adaptation that kidneys undergo is reasonable and appropriate. But don’t take my word for it, check out this study (again at www.pubmed.com):
Eur J Clin Nutr 1996 Nov;50(11):734-40
Effect of chronic dietary protein intake on the renal function in healthy subjects.
Brandle E, Sieberth HG, Hautmann RE.
ISSUE #4 — What about the increased creatinine and BUN indicated by the blood test?
RESPONSE #4 — For starters, how about a quick discussion of the two markers?
Creatinine is commonly known as a waste product of muscle or protein metabolism. To this end, its level is a reflection of the body's muscle mass or the amount of protein in the diet. Low levels are sometimes seen in kidney damage, protein starvation, liver disease, or pregnancy. Elevated levels are sometimes seen in kidney disease due to the fact that a damaged kidney will not remove creatinine from the body as it should. Also, elevated levels are seen with the use of some drugs that could impair kidney filtration. Finally, elevated levels could also be seen with muscle degeneration, a high protein diet, or creatine supplementation.
With respect to creatinine measurements, it’s important to note that the amount of creatinine in the blood is regulated by the amount being produced (from protein degradation—muscle or dietary) vs. the amount that’s being removed (by the kidney). Therefore, although creatinine in the blood COULD be a marker of a damaged kidney’s inability to filter creatinine out of the body at a normal rate, it COULD ALSO be a marker of rapid protein degradation (via muscle damage from weight training or from a high protein intake).
Think of the blood as a sink. If you turn on the faucet at a low rate, the amount of water going into the sink and the amount leaving the sink should balance each other out, leading to a predictable amount of water in the sink at any moment. However, if you partially plug the drain, you’ll get more water accumulating in the sink at the same faucet flow rate. This is similar to kidney dysfunction (thinking of the water as creatinine). However, alternatively, if the drain remains unplugged but you crank up the faucet flow rate, you’ll get more water in the sink due to the higher flow. This is similar to a high protein diet.
Since weightlifters are continually breaking down muscle protein (this is a good thing), even in the absence of a high protein diet, blood creatinine concentrations tend to be elevated. Furthermore, add in a higher protein diet and creatinine concentrations in the blood will rise. Finally, since creatinine is also a breakdown product of creatine, if a weightlifter is taking creatine supplements (which most do), blood creatinine concentrations will also be high. What all of this means is that the faucet is turned up in weightlifters, not that the drain is plugged.
To address the other relevant measure, the nitrogen component of urea, blood urea nitrogen (BUN), is the end product of protein metabolism and its concentration is also influenced by the rate of excretion (as is creatinine). Excessive protein intake, kidney damage, certain drugs, low fluid intake, intestinal bleeding, exercise, or heart failure can cause increases in BUN. Decreased levels may be due to a poor diet, malabsorption, liver damage, or low nitrogen intake. Excess BUN is even more closely correlated with protein intake than is creatinine. The same argument above applies here.
So, as you can see, since both creatinine and BUN are correlated with both high protein metabolism AND kidney function, I’m not suggesting that it’s unreasonable that doctors are worried about the kidneys of your son or daughter. But it’s important for you and your doctor to realize that the increases in BUN and creatinine seen in healthy weightlifters who eat higher protein diets aren’t necessarily a function of kidney health but are much more closely correlated with their diet and training.
ISSUE #5 — Since BUN and creatinines are non-specific measures, what should we have tested, just to be on the safe side?
RESPONSE #5 — According to physician and sports nutrition expert Dr. Eric Serrano, two additional measures are important to tease out the differences between the effects of training and nutrition and the effects of kidney dysfunction. The first is the BUN to creatinine ratio. Dr. Serrano suggests that values up to the low 30’s are okay but anything higher might be indicative of problems. The second is a urinary protein test. This test is a better measure of kidney function than most others.
Considering that most comprehensive kidney function tests include the following measures (A/G Ratio, Albumin, BUN, Calcium, Cholesterol, Creatinine, Globulin, LDH, Phosphorous, Protein - Total, Uric Acid) as well as urinary analysis, it seems irresponsible to make suggestions about protein intake after a simple blood chemistry analysis measuring BUN and creatinine.
ISSUE #6 — What about the increased levels of Creatine Kinase (CK)?
RESPONSE #6 — While this misdiagnosis isn’t as common as the aforementioned ones, many doctors erroneously speculate that elevations in a muscle damage marker, CK, is indicative of a recent myocardial infarction (heart attack)! How could this be?
Creatine Kinase is a cytosolic enzyme (it floats around in the fluid portion of cells) involved in muscle metabolism. Since creatine kinase is present in all muscle tissues (including skeletal muscle and cardiac muscle), the excessive appearance of creatine kinase in the blood is indicative of some type of muscle damage (again, either skeletal or cardiac). Countless studies have shown large rises in blood concentrations of creatine kinase with heart muscle damage (via heart attack) and even large rises in creatine kinase with normal, training-induced muscle damage (this damage is critical to the growth and adaptation process).
Interestingly, a high protein diet has been repeatedly demonstrated to increase resting creatine kinase and post-exercise creatine kinase concentrations without any additional damage (in a number of different species, including humans).
Furthermore, while the standard clinical creatine kinase assay doesn’t distinguish between skeletal muscle and cardiac muscle creatine kinase isoforms, there are muscle specific tests that can be done. Therefore, if a doc is worried about elevated creatine kinase, he or she should order a creatine kinase isoform test. This will determine whether the creatine kinase was released from skeletal or cardiac muscle.
In the end, if a doc is sitting in front of a high protein eatin’ weight trainer with lots of muscle mass (skeletal muscle creatine kinase release, as you might imagine, is closely related to total muscle mass) and sees an elevated creatine kinase score, the last thing on his or her mind should be "heart attack." Here’s a reference to check out:
Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1999 Mar;31(3):414-20
Effects of dietary protein on enzyme activity following exercise-induced muscle injury.
Hayward R, Ferrington DA, Kochanowski LA, Miller LM, Jaworsky GM, Schneider CM
I’ll end my argument here. I hope that I've been able to assist in your search for the facts about protein intake and renal function. However, I feel that I'd be remiss if I were to leave out the other side of the coin — an article that I've written that highlights the myriad of benefits associated with high protein intakes.
Sincerely,
John M. Berardi
© 2002 - 2005 Science Link, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
By John M Berardi
First published at www.t-mag.com, Sep 5 2003.
Almost all long-term weightlifters have gone through it. In an effort to be proactive about our health, we go to the doctor for a routine check-up or to delve a little deeper into what’s going on physiologically and wham! The doc tells us that our kidneys are about to explode! And then, after the shocking news about our main filtration system, the doc lets us know that we may have had a heart attack! That’s right, according to our doc, our high protein diets are about to kill us.
What in the wide, wide, world of amino acids is going on? After all, many of the well-educated and progressive sports nutritionists have been recommending higher protein diets for years. And since researchers have demonstrated repeatedly that higher protein diets help maintain a positive nitrogen status in weight trainers and athletes, high protein diets can’t be all that bad, can they?
Well, doctors often think so. And let’s not make the mistake of thinking that these doctors are "idiots" or lost in the dark ages of medical practice, probably blood letting to release the evil humors. It’s not that simple. The truth of the matter is this: Weight training and higher protein diets do impact certain blood markers of health function, but it’s my contention that in weight trainers, these markers aren't nearly as alarming as many general practitioners think.
Therefore, without further ado, I’d like to present a letter that all doctors and parents should read before taking an alarmist approach to a patient or teenage weightlifter’s blood work. This letter is inspired by the countless emails I’ve received over the last few years from frantic patients who have been told that their health is being jeopardized by their high protein diets when it’s most certainly not!
For the adults in the audience, you certainly have the power and discretion to make your own choices with respect to your health. Unfortunately, many of the emails I get are from teens whose parents control the protein purse strings. For them, it’s not a matter of choice. Therefore, this letter is written in order that their parents are better able to understand the facts and make an informed decision.
Dear Mom and Dad,
I appreciate that you're taking an interest in your child’s health. The fact that you're questioning the assumptions inherent in the weight lifting community is commendable and hopefully will instill in your child the ability to question established norms and to verify the veracity of the claims issued by the self-proclaimed bodybuilding "gurus." After all, blindly following—without proper discretion—what all the other "meatheads" are doing can definitely lead to problems.
In addition, I thank you for your objectivity in seeking out the truth (or the information that comes as close to the truth as we can currently get). It’s difficult to remain objective in today’s society where we are easily influenced by the moods and alarmist nature of our current media machine.
With respect to your concerns, no doubt brought on by the concern of a well-intentioned physician or by the results of clinical assessment (i.e. blood work), I’d like to address the relevant issues below.
ISSUE #1 — Many physicians believe that high protein diets cause kidney dysfunction
RESPONSE #1 — This is FALSE according to everything science now knows to be true. This presumption states that if you take a healthy person and put them on a high protein diet, the protein will somehow negatively influence the kidney, damaging it and causing renal disease. To this end, there is absolutely no data in healthy adults suggesting that a high protein intake causes the onset of renal (kidney) dysfunction. There aren’t even any correlational studies showing this effect in healthy people.
Any studies that show a correlation between renal (kidney) dysfunction and protein intake are in those with some type of diagnosed, pre-existing renal (kidney) disease like diabetic nephropathy, glomerular lesions, etc. Even research into protein restriction for renal patients can be controversial. (Shils, Modern Nutr in Health & Dis, 1999).
Besides, you’ll likely recognize a serious pre-existing kidney condition; the signs and symptoms will clue you in long before you happen upon it with a routine blood test (especially if there's a noted family history of diabetes mellitus and hypertension).
Since an exhaustive search of the published literature will likely not yield a single study showing that the amount of protein in the diet causes, or is correlated with, the onset of renal dysfunction in otherwise healthy individuals, the fact that this notion prevails is puzzling to say the least!
But even if a doctor were to find an obscure reference that might suggest a relationship between a high-protein diet and kidney disease, there are numerous studies showing otherwise. Here are a few of them:
a) Ann Intern Med 2003 Mar 18;138(6):460-7
The impact of protein intake on renal function decline in women with normal renal function or mild renal insufficiency.
Knight EL, Stampfer MJ, Hankinson SE, Spiegelman D, Curhan GC.
b) Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2000 Mar;10(1):28-38
Do regular high protein diets have potential health risks on kidney function in athletes?
Poortmans JR, Dellalieux O.
c) Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1999 Nov;23(11):1170-7
Changes in renal function during weight loss induced by high vs low-protein low-fat diets in overweight subjects.
Skov AR, Toubro S, Bulow J, Krabbe K, Parving HH, Astrup A.
d) Eur J Clin Nutr 1996 Nov;50(11):734-40
Effect of chronic dietary protein intake on the renal function in healthy subjects.
Brandle E, Sieberth HG, Hautmann RE.
e) Am J Kidney Dis 2003 Mar;41(3):580-7
Association of dietary protein intake and microalbuminuria in healthy adults: Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. "Dietary protein intake was not associated with microalbuminuria in normotensive or nondiabetic persons."
If you’re interested, these studies can be accessed at www.pubmed.com.
ISSUE #2 — Many physicians believe that because high protein diets can worsen the condition of those who already suffer from kidney dysfunction, it only stands to reason that this should be true in healthy people.
RESPONSE #2 — This is also FALSE! Much of the speculation about kidney dysfunction associated with high protein diets comes from early nutritional studies in renal patients (patients who already have kidney disease).
In these individuals, when high protein diets are given as part of total parenteral nutrition—or tube feedings—these diets exacerbated their renal (kidney) problems. From these data, some physicians and nutritionists began to speculate (sometimes erroneously) that increased protein in the diet could be harmful to even those with healthy kidneys.
While there are hundreds of studies showing that high protein diets are bad for kidney patients, I believe that a "leap" from clinical patients to healthy patients isn't warranted. It’s this leap that has been the cause of the persistent but slowly dying (sorry for the word selection) idea that high protein diets could harm the kidneys.
Again, there's no evidence whatsoever that high protein diets will harm the kidneys of a healthy weightlifter. This is about as ridiculous as someone suggesting that because eating certain types of fiber can worsen the GI symptoms of someone with irritable bowel syndrome, fiber must cause irritable bowl syndrome in otherwise healthy people.
ISSUE #3 — Kidneys DO change to adapt to high protein diets.
RESPONSE #3 — Some studies in healthy individuals do show an alteration of kidney function with very high protein diets. However, it's important to note that these changes are not reported as negative or "adverse." Instead, they seem to be structural adaptations to increased filtration (something the kidneys are doing all the time anyway).
If the kidney didn’t respond this way, most clinicians would think something was wrong. Just like in weight training, tissues adapt to the demands put on them. Therefore, just because the kidneys have to "work" harder, doesn’t mean that this is a negative thing. After all, what happens when muscles work harder? Well, they adapt to the demands and become bigger, stronger, or more efficient. Therefore, the adaptation that kidneys undergo is reasonable and appropriate. But don’t take my word for it, check out this study (again at www.pubmed.com):
Eur J Clin Nutr 1996 Nov;50(11):734-40
Effect of chronic dietary protein intake on the renal function in healthy subjects.
Brandle E, Sieberth HG, Hautmann RE.
ISSUE #4 — What about the increased creatinine and BUN indicated by the blood test?
RESPONSE #4 — For starters, how about a quick discussion of the two markers?
Creatinine is commonly known as a waste product of muscle or protein metabolism. To this end, its level is a reflection of the body's muscle mass or the amount of protein in the diet. Low levels are sometimes seen in kidney damage, protein starvation, liver disease, or pregnancy. Elevated levels are sometimes seen in kidney disease due to the fact that a damaged kidney will not remove creatinine from the body as it should. Also, elevated levels are seen with the use of some drugs that could impair kidney filtration. Finally, elevated levels could also be seen with muscle degeneration, a high protein diet, or creatine supplementation.
With respect to creatinine measurements, it’s important to note that the amount of creatinine in the blood is regulated by the amount being produced (from protein degradation—muscle or dietary) vs. the amount that’s being removed (by the kidney). Therefore, although creatinine in the blood COULD be a marker of a damaged kidney’s inability to filter creatinine out of the body at a normal rate, it COULD ALSO be a marker of rapid protein degradation (via muscle damage from weight training or from a high protein intake).
Think of the blood as a sink. If you turn on the faucet at a low rate, the amount of water going into the sink and the amount leaving the sink should balance each other out, leading to a predictable amount of water in the sink at any moment. However, if you partially plug the drain, you’ll get more water accumulating in the sink at the same faucet flow rate. This is similar to kidney dysfunction (thinking of the water as creatinine). However, alternatively, if the drain remains unplugged but you crank up the faucet flow rate, you’ll get more water in the sink due to the higher flow. This is similar to a high protein diet.
Since weightlifters are continually breaking down muscle protein (this is a good thing), even in the absence of a high protein diet, blood creatinine concentrations tend to be elevated. Furthermore, add in a higher protein diet and creatinine concentrations in the blood will rise. Finally, since creatinine is also a breakdown product of creatine, if a weightlifter is taking creatine supplements (which most do), blood creatinine concentrations will also be high. What all of this means is that the faucet is turned up in weightlifters, not that the drain is plugged.
To address the other relevant measure, the nitrogen component of urea, blood urea nitrogen (BUN), is the end product of protein metabolism and its concentration is also influenced by the rate of excretion (as is creatinine). Excessive protein intake, kidney damage, certain drugs, low fluid intake, intestinal bleeding, exercise, or heart failure can cause increases in BUN. Decreased levels may be due to a poor diet, malabsorption, liver damage, or low nitrogen intake. Excess BUN is even more closely correlated with protein intake than is creatinine. The same argument above applies here.
So, as you can see, since both creatinine and BUN are correlated with both high protein metabolism AND kidney function, I’m not suggesting that it’s unreasonable that doctors are worried about the kidneys of your son or daughter. But it’s important for you and your doctor to realize that the increases in BUN and creatinine seen in healthy weightlifters who eat higher protein diets aren’t necessarily a function of kidney health but are much more closely correlated with their diet and training.
ISSUE #5 — Since BUN and creatinines are non-specific measures, what should we have tested, just to be on the safe side?
RESPONSE #5 — According to physician and sports nutrition expert Dr. Eric Serrano, two additional measures are important to tease out the differences between the effects of training and nutrition and the effects of kidney dysfunction. The first is the BUN to creatinine ratio. Dr. Serrano suggests that values up to the low 30’s are okay but anything higher might be indicative of problems. The second is a urinary protein test. This test is a better measure of kidney function than most others.
Considering that most comprehensive kidney function tests include the following measures (A/G Ratio, Albumin, BUN, Calcium, Cholesterol, Creatinine, Globulin, LDH, Phosphorous, Protein - Total, Uric Acid) as well as urinary analysis, it seems irresponsible to make suggestions about protein intake after a simple blood chemistry analysis measuring BUN and creatinine.
ISSUE #6 — What about the increased levels of Creatine Kinase (CK)?
RESPONSE #6 — While this misdiagnosis isn’t as common as the aforementioned ones, many doctors erroneously speculate that elevations in a muscle damage marker, CK, is indicative of a recent myocardial infarction (heart attack)! How could this be?
Creatine Kinase is a cytosolic enzyme (it floats around in the fluid portion of cells) involved in muscle metabolism. Since creatine kinase is present in all muscle tissues (including skeletal muscle and cardiac muscle), the excessive appearance of creatine kinase in the blood is indicative of some type of muscle damage (again, either skeletal or cardiac). Countless studies have shown large rises in blood concentrations of creatine kinase with heart muscle damage (via heart attack) and even large rises in creatine kinase with normal, training-induced muscle damage (this damage is critical to the growth and adaptation process).
Interestingly, a high protein diet has been repeatedly demonstrated to increase resting creatine kinase and post-exercise creatine kinase concentrations without any additional damage (in a number of different species, including humans).
Furthermore, while the standard clinical creatine kinase assay doesn’t distinguish between skeletal muscle and cardiac muscle creatine kinase isoforms, there are muscle specific tests that can be done. Therefore, if a doc is worried about elevated creatine kinase, he or she should order a creatine kinase isoform test. This will determine whether the creatine kinase was released from skeletal or cardiac muscle.
In the end, if a doc is sitting in front of a high protein eatin’ weight trainer with lots of muscle mass (skeletal muscle creatine kinase release, as you might imagine, is closely related to total muscle mass) and sees an elevated creatine kinase score, the last thing on his or her mind should be "heart attack." Here’s a reference to check out:
Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1999 Mar;31(3):414-20
Effects of dietary protein on enzyme activity following exercise-induced muscle injury.
Hayward R, Ferrington DA, Kochanowski LA, Miller LM, Jaworsky GM, Schneider CM
I’ll end my argument here. I hope that I've been able to assist in your search for the facts about protein intake and renal function. However, I feel that I'd be remiss if I were to leave out the other side of the coin — an article that I've written that highlights the myriad of benefits associated with high protein intakes.
Sincerely,
John M. Berardi
© 2002 - 2005 Science Link, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
UmneyDurak
02-08-08, 03:28 PM
So what exactly is considered a "high protein" diet? Is 2.4gram/kg daily intake be considered "high protein"?
Nickel
02-08-08, 08:20 PM
I've always heard 1g/lb of lean body mass (which is less than per pound depending on how lean you are) or 0.6g/lb. There are some numbers in the cycling bible but I can't remember them off the top of my head.
Tex_Arcana
02-15-08, 12:18 PM
Whey Protein
"Another serious toxic byproduct is whey protein, a byproduct of the dairy industry. Whey is milk protein that is discarded from the production of cow milk, a serious toxin to the human body. You can commonly find whey protein in your commercial brand health food stores and local gyms and fitness centers. The dairy industry targets athletes for their whey protein byproduct; perhaps figuring athletes generally are not the brightest individuals. Regardless, whey protein has no business in the human body. It is a waste byproduct and toxin to the human body. Beware of all those protein bars and beverages containing whey. The dairy industry, like all other byproduct waste industries, are using people as trash dumpsters and canisters to rid itself of waste that would otherwise cost it millions of dollars to dispose of. "
Source: http://www.dherbs.com/articles/waste-products-160.html
You have to carefully weigh out the background of the author. I don't know who Djehuty Ma'at-Ra is but I have seen long rants by vegans and animal activists about how animal products such as eggs are bad and toxic to humans and try to gross people out i.e. "Eggs are a by product of a chickens menstruation. If you eat eggs you're eating a chickens period".
Just like when you're listening to Rush Limbaugh or Bill Maher you gotta take into account where the information is coming from when you analyze the information's facts.
"Another serious toxic byproduct is whey protein, a byproduct of the dairy industry. Whey is milk protein that is discarded from the production of cow milk, a serious toxin to the human body. You can commonly find whey protein in your commercial brand health food stores and local gyms and fitness centers. The dairy industry targets athletes for their whey protein byproduct; perhaps figuring athletes generally are not the brightest individuals. Regardless, whey protein has no business in the human body. It is a waste byproduct and toxin to the human body. Beware of all those protein bars and beverages containing whey. The dairy industry, like all other byproduct waste industries, are using people as trash dumpsters and canisters to rid itself of waste that would otherwise cost it millions of dollars to dispose of. "
Source: http://www.dherbs.com/articles/waste-products-160.html
You have to carefully weigh out the background of the author. I don't know who Djehuty Ma'at-Ra is but I have seen long rants by vegans and animal activists about how animal products such as eggs are bad and toxic to humans and try to gross people out i.e. "Eggs are a by product of a chickens menstruation. If you eat eggs you're eating a chickens period".
Just like when you're listening to Rush Limbaugh or Bill Maher you gotta take into account where the information is coming from when you analyze the information's facts.
late
02-16-08, 04:56 PM
Shaun,
listen to your trainer. Immediately after you stop exercising there is a Glycogen Window. It lasts about 20 minutes, give or take a few. During that period your body can process protein at 3 times the normal rate.
That doesn't mean you should have a massive weightlifter shake. That much protein will actually slow the process down. But a medium amount (depends, but 10 to 25 grams) will help.
Basically, protein is protein is protein. I use the other milk protein, caseinate. But I use it because it adds thickness and flavor. But pretty much any protein will work.
Mix it in some fruit juice, and drink it right after you stop. You prob won't want to, but it's the best time if you work out frequently and hard.
And don't forget to check all this out with your trainer. It's what he's there for.
listen to your trainer. Immediately after you stop exercising there is a Glycogen Window. It lasts about 20 minutes, give or take a few. During that period your body can process protein at 3 times the normal rate.
That doesn't mean you should have a massive weightlifter shake. That much protein will actually slow the process down. But a medium amount (depends, but 10 to 25 grams) will help.
Basically, protein is protein is protein. I use the other milk protein, caseinate. But I use it because it adds thickness and flavor. But pretty much any protein will work.
Mix it in some fruit juice, and drink it right after you stop. You prob won't want to, but it's the best time if you work out frequently and hard.
And don't forget to check all this out with your trainer. It's what he's there for.
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