Classic & Vintage - Oh Boy, what have I done?! - Gazelle

You know when you bid an then you immediately realize you shouldn't have?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190193377990&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

So what can you tell me about it? Time to dump a whole bunch of stuff on ebay!

Well, it's a beautiful frame :) .

East Hill

You've been such a bad boy! What would Corky think of this? :p

So what can you tell me about it?

It's Pearl white and your 151 crankset should cover the cost. What else do you need to know?

Welcome to the Dutch club. I am sure cuda2k, sr70guy, and lotek will have some comments. Got yerself a real nice frame.

Very nice looking vintage frame. The ebay picture of the bottom bracket also shows the underside of the cable guide having very little paint wear. Good indication of low mileage.

Work a little OT or sell a few family heirlooms to help ease the remorse. You did good. :)

It's Pearl white and your 151 crankset should cover the cost. What else do you need to know?

The crankset isn't mine, it's the bikeforums member who lives in the other half of the house, but I hope for his sake it goes for that much!

As hard as this is, I think I have to dump my Faggin as well, though I do have enough parts to build up this gazelle on it's own I think I have to thin the heard to justify it.


Welcome to the Dutch club. I am sure cuda2k, sr70guy, and lotek will have some comments. Got yerself a real nice frame.

Thanks. I think the discussions on here about how great these are is partially responsible for me getting excited about it in the first place. Supposed to be in really good shape and there is apparently a really light hue of green to the paint. The shipping was unbelievably cheep and I double checked with the seller who said it was correct and he has lots of experience and feed back shipping frames to NA so I snapped it up.

Now I need to figure out what year it is. The question I am asking myself is do I put my coblato brakes with late model super record kit on it or put old style super record brakes on it?

Well.... I can paypal you the money for the Gazelle if you send me a certain blue frame that you have not yet taken delivery of. I have a whole Campy NR group looking for a home..........;)

Lovely frame. Never seen that kind of brake/chainstay bridge. It has a 70mm British BB? That exists?

Lovely frame. Never seen that kind of brake/chainstay bridge. It has a 70mm British BB? That exists?

I thought that odd too.


Well.... I can paypal you the money for the Gazelle if you send me a certain blue frame that you have not yet taken delivery of. I have a whole Campy NR group looking for a home..........;)

I suddenly have 2 531 bikes! Corky, has a pre-1973 nuovo record group waiting at home.

You know when you bid an then you immediately realize you shouldn't have?

YES! I got a Raleigh SC Mk II that way. :p

It had a couple of hours left so I outbid the current hi-bidder by $5.

And that gave me the "win"! :eek: :roflmao:

Fortunately, it's my size and it's all original and in good shape. A good clean/tune and I can get my $$ back,......like any a that'll ever happen! :rolleyes:

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Excellent "new" frame! Glad the paint's in good shape! ;)

Take heart...you could have spent way more money on THIS Gazelle!!! :roflmao:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250173377301&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX&refitem=190193377990&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&refwidgettype=osi_widget

and it's MADE to be thrown away!!!!~;)

YES! I got a Raleigh SC Mk II that way. :p

It had a couple of hours left so I outbid the current hi-bidder by $5.

And that gave me the "win"! :eek: :roflmao:

Fortunately, it's my size and it's all original and in good shape. A good clean/tune and I can get my $$ back,......like any a that'll ever happen! :rolleyes:

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Excellent "new" frame! Glad the paint's in good shape! ;)

Take heart...you could have spent way more money on THIS Gazelle!!! :roflmao:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250173377301&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX&refitem=190193377990&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&refwidgettype=osi_widget

and it's MADE to be thrown away!!!!~;)

Sheesh, I had no idea there were frisbee collectors..

That's what I did, late last night I outbid the higest bidder by a few dollars with hours to ago. I could barely sleep. I was thinking... I hope someone outbids... me The girlfriend isn't going to be happy. I'm gonna have to expunge a bunch of stuff to get back on her good side.

Nice frame 'cyclotoine'

Build it up with Nuovo or Super Record. Both would be ideal.



...but if you feel you have "overextended" yourself, then I'm sure some lucky C & V 'er would help ease your suffering. :D

hehe welcome to the dark side.
I think you're going to find you have one excellent riding bike there.
Either full or semi wrap around seat stays (can't quite make it out from photos),
a bike made for northern classics and cobbles on the koppenberg (or the Muur).
My experience is that the dutch bikes are built for less than perfect roads, they
really seem to smooth things out more than say an italian frame.
And now you can use a Porta Catena !
Nice bike, AA frame, will work very well with super record gruppo.

Oh yeah you probably want to read this:
http://www.rijwiel.net/gazellee.htm
Marty

You shouldn't have bought that! Now I will want one too. Why on earth did you have to move in next door anyway?!? Don't worry, the cut from my Record 151 bcd cranks will at least cover some of the shipping costs. I promise not to tell Valley....muhahaha....:)

made for northern classics and cobbles on the koppenberg (or the Muur).
My experience is that the dutch bikes are built for less than perfect roads, they
really seem to smooth things out more than say an italian frame.

yeah, i agree about the ride. that fork will be a nice ride i think.

i just might know what it feels like.
http://flickr.com/photos/73753172@N00/2099862850/

i think that frame you just won is from the late 70's.

Congratulations, it is a very nice frame.
It should be from the late 70's. I got an 83 Gazelle Champion Mondial without the chrome and normal bridges. It's a very nice ride. Mine has the same colour and I even bought it NOS from the same seller last year.
I will make some pictures of mine later this week.

You know when you bid an then you immediately realize you shouldn't have?


i think i did that to myself this morning. some damn hubs. beat the high bidder by one bid thinking surely he'll come back and bid up a little higher...the hours are counting down and i'm thinking i just might win them. i mean i'll build a nice wheelset because i already have some rims in that drilling....but it'd be cheaper to trade the rims and use some hubs i already got...good thing i've been moving along all those parts i never use...so i can buy more parts :D

Welcome to the Dutch club. I am sure cuda2k, sr70guy, and lotek will have some comments. Got yerself a real nice frame.

Hey, I have a gazelle too.

But I will never admit my total number on hand though. That would be telling.

Looks older than 81, appears to be an AA (chrome and beefer BB), I'm guessing more like a 77-78 frame perhaps with the butterfly rear brake bridge. It could be that the AA's were using that brake bridge later than the AB frames, but my frame doesn't have that and I'm fairly confident in a pre 81 date for it as well.

Yes, it's an AA-frame (short dropouts w/o eyelets, stiffer roto BB, scissor-like chainstay bridge).
Should be 1980 or younger (script font on the TT).
Chrome and braze-ons aren't model specific, just options for any Champion Mondial. And they all have british threading with 68 mm BB, so the eBay ad wasn't accurate.
These are *VERY* nice frames, I have this one (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-11/1285843/GazelleAA.jpg) that's similar to cyclotoine's, just much greener :). Mine is a late 1977 / early 1978 AA, with butterfly brake bridge, full wraparound seatstays and the sturdier fork crown. Very stiff for a tall (62cm c-c) steel frame.
[For sale BTW.]

As hard as this is, I think I have to dump my Faggin as well, though I do have enough parts to build up this gazelle on it's own I think I have to thin the heard to justify it.

Now that's just crazy talk!

Yes, it's an AA-frame (short dropouts w/o eyelets, stiffer roto BB, scissor-like chainstay bridge).
Should be 1980 or younger (script font on the TT).
Chrome and braze-ons aren't model specific, just options for any Champion Mondial. And they all have british threading with 68 mm BB, so the eBay ad wasn't accurate.
These are *VERY* nice frames, I have this one (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-11/1285843/GazelleAA.jpg) that's similar to cyclotoine's, just much greener :). Mine is a late 1977 / early 1978 AA, with butterfly brake bridge, full wraparound seatstays and the sturdier fork crown. Very stiff for a tall (62cm c-c) steel frame.
[For sale BTW.]

This bike is apparently 0.5cm shorter in top tube and seattube than my faggin. I expect it will make little difference... Everything everyone has said has made me feel good about this. Thanks guys!

That's a fine looking frameset. It'll be a real looker when it's built up. I was watching it on eBay and wasn't shocked by the selling price. I was tempted to toss out a bid but I've pulled in my horns lately on Ebay auctions. Congratulations.

According to the link (thanks marty) the bike is post 1981 when they started using 7 digit serial numbers. I does not say that the first is the year (as with the previous sequence) but I think that makes this a 1983. which seems about right.

Take heart...you could have spent way more money on THIS Gazelle!!! :roflmao:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250173377301&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX&refitem=190193377990&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&refwidgettype=osi_widget

and it's MADE to be thrown away!!!!~;)


Sheesh, I had no idea there were frisbee collectors..
*Ahem*

That's a disc, used for disc golf. And they're not meant to be thrown away, just thrown. Probably not worth $500, though.

Nice score Cyclotine, it looks great. There is a complete one on eBay right now that is silver in a size 58 and looks to be of a newer vintage but has that same "butterfly" rear-brake bridge:

http://cgi.ebay.com/GAZELLE-Racing-Bicycle-Vintage-58cm-Shimano-Deore-70s_W0QQitemZ290202343653QQihZ019QQcategoryZ98084QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Interesting, same BB and serial number that starts with 3, but old champion mondial logo.

Ah, I thought it was a new decal. Odd group for that bike, it is rather low-end, no?

Ah, I thought it was a new decal. Odd group for that bike, it is rather low-end, no?

It looks like the same frame as mine more or less. The group is from around 1982.

Here is mine 1983 Champion Mondial, it is an A-Frame, so more for touring than racing.
It is my daily bike, so I could for commuting, shopping and touring.


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii208/paulkal/champion.jpg

It looks like the same frame as mine more or less. The group is from around 1982.

Yes, sorry, I meant that the group on that bike that I linked is rather low on the scale, lower than I would have guessed for a frame such as this I am guessing that the only parts original to it are the 600 crank and front brake.

Nice bike Paul, it looks well-loved.


edit: Well bugger me! I just was looking at that 58cm Gazelle again and the seller has a link to larger photos and you can see here (http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a92/andoh666/gazelle/?action=view&current=gazelle.jpg) that he has scanned an old catalog and the parts he has on the bike are mostly original. I am wrong, as usual ;)

He also states in very fine print at the end of the auction that the fork was bent and has been repaired. He is also selling the park fork repair tool in his other auction. This bike did not sell last time a $199 starting bid so he dropped to $149. It does seem an odd group on the bike. I thought about it as I do really like the frame but decided to pass because the fok repair gives me pause and when I looked at the bike, the fork looks a bit close to the down tube.

That early deore stuff I actually quite hard to find and I think somewhat collectible. I don`t think there would be any problem parting that stuff out. I am not toying with the idea of building up the gazelle with parts from closer to home. I.e. retro friction, Sachs huret, TA, etc...

cyclotoine got the only good Gazelle out there on the 'bay right now. As fender mentioned, one's had the fork repaired and the other has something very odd going on with the paint/chrome/whatever is on it. If I get another Gazelle, it'll likely be a track bike. ;)


That early deore stuff I actually quite hard to find and I think somewhat collectible. I don`t think there would be any problem parting that stuff out. I am not toying with the idea of building up the gazelle with parts from closer to home. I.e. retro friction, Sachs huret, TA, etc...

I think you mean 'now' and not 'not'. I think a European group would be fitting for the frame.

Yes I meant now, but I will probably crumble under the pressure and put super record on it, because it's soo gorgeous.

Can anyone explain to me the differences between the AA, AB, and A frames?
Edit: Okay well I searched and read old threads and it seems A frame have a longer wheel base and are for light touring or longer rides in general, but I am not sure I know the difference between AA and AB.

Also I got a little nervous last night measuring my bikes. I am not sure how the frame is measured. Would the 62 be to the absolute top of the seat tube or to the top to the toptube/seat tube intersection? Meaning does it measure like a 61cm C-C... luckily my cranks are 180mm which brings the seatpost down a touch. I think I would be running my super record post at the limit mark on this baby. The shortness of the headtube has got me a little apprehensive since even my 61cm Jeunet has a 19.5cm but that could be due partially to a slacker head tube angle.

AA was the highest model Champion Mondial, folllowed by AB and A (as far as I remember).

AA had the stiffer BB and butterfly style brake bridge, and usually had more chrome than the other models.

Super Record does look really really nice on Gazelles. I should know:

http://TheCuda.com\photos\upload\Gazelle\Gazelle3.jpg

But a tasteful mix of Sachs Huret, TA, & Simplex would be a fun build as well.

Yes I meant now, but I will probably crumble under the pressure and put super record on it, because it's soo gorgeous.

Can anyone explain to me the differences between the AA, AB, and A frames?



Can't tell you about those, but here (http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/CV-6+Enterprises/BikeSwap07/Gazelle03.jpg.html) is a picture of a Super AA. Check out the dimple in the seattube for wheel clearance. Freek told me this was a criterium frame. Click previous and next for more pics.

Yes, it's an AA-frame (short dropouts w/o eyelets, stiffer roto BB, scissor-like chainstay bridge).
Should be 1980 or younger (script font on the TT).
Chrome and braze-ons aren't model specific, just options for any Champion Mondial. And they all have british threading with 68 mm BB, so the eBay ad wasn't accurate.
These are *VERY* nice frames, I have this one (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-11/1285843/GazelleAA.jpg) that's similar to cyclotoine's, just much greener :). Mine is a late 1977 / early 1978 AA, with butterfly brake bridge, full wraparound seatstays and the sturdier fork crown. Very stiff for a tall (62cm c-c) steel frame.
[For sale BTW.]

If only I had known about your before hand, it would probably fit me a bit better. Looks like the paint doesn't like the chrome.

You know when you bid an then you immediately realize you shouldn't have?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190193377990&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

So what can you tell me about it? Time to dump a whole bunch of stuff on ebay!

Welcome to the Dutch club indeed! And enjoy that Gazelle, it looks very nice. One thing about Gazelle's, around 1980 (and certainly before) the toptube was relatively short compared to the seattube. so, where i can ride my lovely Rossin Record with 58 c-t seattube and perfect-for-me 56,5 c-c toptube, I have to go a 59 c-t Gazelle CM to get that 56,5 toptube (I happen to have a Champion Mondial 753, from 1979, in that size, and rode it a few times). Later in the 80s I think they changed the geometry a bit, but before that the short toptube was the ultimate wisdom in Dutch framebuilding, many lesser known frame marqus have that same quality. Criterium racing!

The AA-frame should have been the top frame at the time, with the exception of the 753-frame. As mentioned before, the difference was in the quality of the bb shell and fork crown, and the short rear dropouts. The A-frame was a bit more touring oriented, i believe it had just a bit more room in the rear triangle and the front to allow for fenders. Although i've seen many guys racing with A-frames!
Its just a matter of what you want to spend I guess.
That brings me to that question that seems to pop up so often: what is the right component group to put on a Gazelle Champion Mondial?

The first thing I have to mention here is that Dutch people, and bike racers are no exception, are cost-conscious, and practical. Appearance didn't see to matter much. So at that time you could see everything on a Gazelle that was raced. Super Record? Not really for criterium racing. I remember watching the Ronde van Pijnacker (81 or 82, not sure), the pro criterium, a crash occurred when the bunch accelerated out of a corner. I saw the guy crashing sliding on the road, left crank still attached to his shoe, with a piece of the hollow titanium axle clearly visible! Something gave ... OK, this was Jan Aling, over 1.90 m in height, and rumoured to climb the Cauberg (Amstel Gold Race) in 53-16, but still ...

Someone mentioned the AA-Special frame. This was kind of special: the wishbone seatstays, shortened rear end by 'denting' the seattube. I saw a few at the time, but they were very rare. I considered every Gazelle racing suited for criterium racing, so I dont know what brought this on. It is nice though, and exclusive I guess.
Early in the 70s all Champion Mondial's were just called that. In the second half of the 70s they introduced the model names A-frame, AB-frame and AA-frame. Then came the 753-frame. Somewhere in the 80s came the AA-Super and the AA-Special. All with better quality lugs, like all steel frames at the time I guess.

Edit: I do believe your frame is 79 or 80, cyclotoine. Butterfly brakebridge, but script font on tt, Id say 79 or 80. Give me a framenumber, and I can be more precise. And btw, 45 usd for shipping? Its 52,95 euros (priority) by TNT! And thats the cheapest option AFAIK. Im curious why fietsenfrans is taking a loss on shipping ...

s70rguy, thanks for the info, very helpful.

The frame number is 3255113 as seen in the auction picture
that is one one side with Gazelle stamped on the other.

You say they have short top tubes but 57.5 on a frame that is 62cm c-t seems long enough to me. Every japanese 62cm c-c (that's 63/63.5 c-t) has a 58cm top tube that I have come across. My faggin is the same and I once had a raleigh with a 57cm c-cTT that was a 63cm c-t frame... I am curious... when you say c-t and this bike is stated to be a 62cm c-t does that mean the top of the top tube or the top of the seattube cluser which is usually about 0.5cm above the top of the top tube?

As for the shipping, I did double check with him before I bid. He said TNT was very reasonable and already shipped two frame to Canada this month!

s70rguy, thanks for the info, very helpful.

The frame number is 3255113 as seen in the auction picture
that is one one side with Gazelle stamped on the other.

You say they have short top tubes but 57.5 on a frame that is 62cm c-t seems long enough to me. Every japanese 62cm c-c (that's 63/63.5 c-t) has a 58cm top tube that I have come across. My faggin is the same and I once had a raleigh with a 57cm c-cTT that was a 63cm c-t frame... I am curious... when you say c-t and this bike is stated to be a 62cm c-t does that mean the top of the top tube or the top of the seattube cluser which is usually about 0.5cm above the top of the top tube?

As for the shipping, I did double check with him before I bid. He said TNT was very reasonable and already shipped two frame to Canada this month!


I have a Champion Mondial in 531 SL with framenumber 3251294 which I reckon to be 1980; the 753-frame has 3220987 (79 I think), and an AB-frame I sold had 3269873 which I think is 81. So yours is probably 1980. This is my own dating method, from having many CM bikes passing through my hands. I believe the method presented on the rijwielnet page only works for citybikes, or is a bit off.

The frame size I mmentioned is center-top, center of bb shell to top of seatlug. The frame you're getting has the bonus of having the frame size stamped in the butterfly brake bridge!

Re: TNT shipping cost, maybe you're paying for Economy, shipping time about 3 months ...

Re: TNT shipping cost, maybe you're paying for Economy, shipping time about 3 months ...

He did say it should be here in about 2 weeks... so who knows?

I hope I can handle the size. I know I have always thought that I could ride a 60cm c-c and this should be about 60.5... so we will see!

He did say it should be here in about 2 weeks... so who knows?


Maybe he's keeping the weight of the complete package under 5 kgs. Even then he's losing about 3 USD!

When i ship a frame the package invariably weighs about 7 kgs; and thats well packed and protected of course. Thats why i charge about double what fietsenfrans has charged you. Safety first is my motto ...

Maybe he's keeping the weight of the complete package under 5 kgs. Even then he's losing about 3 USD!

When i ship a frame the package invariably weighs about 7 kgs; and thats well packed and protected of course. Thats why i charge about double what fietsenfrans has charged you. Safety first is my motto ...

Well he charges $49, not $45 as you said above... I guess I'll just cross my fingers and pray.

Well he charges $49, not $45 as you said above... I guess I'll just cross my fingers and pray.

sorry, cyclotoine, didn't want to make you worried ...

and an AB-frame I sold had 3269873 which I think is 81.

is that the maroon one you sold to me? 58cm, with the chrome fork.

is that the maroon one you sold to me? 58cm, with the chrome fork.

No Jeff, it was ivory with metallic blue headtube.

Got the Gazelle this weekend... First impressions.... Looked good for the most part, a bit of bubbling in one spot on the chainstay under the chrome and a similar on the top tube nothing major. Insane lightweight! I noticed in the auction the BB didn't seem very "finished" close inspection of the frame shows lots of extra brass not cleaned up and lug point that are off center, there are lots of file marks too, I would say this is as bad or worse than many a raleigh in terms of the quality of finish. The rear housing stop and the dropouts are all textured under the chrome, I guess they didn't get any sanding down? Seems weird like the texture of cast iron. The finish really is crude on this bike. I was expecting something a little more refined with all the praise I have heard of these bike. However it seems well built. I did have an annoying as hell time getting the headset in... I had to sand the top a little to get the super record race to fit. One of my hang ups with the faggin was a rear brake bridge that wasn't perfectly set in... turns out I swapped it for a bike with even worse finishing. Oh well I'll build it and ride it, still a cool looking frame, hope it rides better than it looks.

For being Dutch, it don't look like much.

I noticed in the auction the BB didn't seem very "finished" close inspection of the frame shows lots of extra brass not cleaned up and lug point that are off center, there are lots of file marks too, I would say this is as bad or worse than many a raleigh in terms of the quality of finish. The rear housing stop and the dropouts are all textured under the chrome, I guess they didn't get any sanding down? Seems weird like the texture of cast iron. The finish really is crude on this bike. I was expecting something a little more refined with all the praise I have heard of these bike.


Sorry to hear that - I can hardly believe it.
I've seen quite a few of these Gazelles and I've never come across any real iffy workmanship. I regard those bikes as well made. The dutch don't pay too much attention to "outwardness", so those frames are no Confentes, but everytime I look at a Gazelle C.M. I feel reassured that craftsmen at big factories too have [had] the abilities to build clean frames. (Could it be that I'm just not critical enough?)

Can you show us what you mean?