Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Miche primamato vs. sugino 75

I'm going to buy one of these eventually... i'm not sure which one i want.
The sugino's are more expensive, but are pretty-er and everyone loves them. But i can't see anything wrong with the miches... is it worth the extra cash? And if i buy the matching bb, which one will require more maintenance?

Only reason I would not get the Miche's personally is that they have a 135 BCD and chain rings are hard enough to come by in 144 much less even more specific 135. But that's just me I don't have any info on maintenance though. I just like to plan ahead as far as upgrading and switching parts around and availability and pricing goes.

the new miches crank is 144bcd, you should buy only what your freinds approve of unless you want to be an outcast.

I'm going for the Miche Advanced over 75's. Cheaper, noticable difference in quality is very little(honestly now, how many of us can feel the difference between high quality cranks?), good looking, and in 144 BCD.

As far as maintenance goes, you'll have to take apart the 75 BB every so often since it's a conventional BB whereas Miche uses a cartridge.

dude, he used "pretty-er" and "everyone loves them" as reasons for going with a $200 crankset.
i'm pretty sure he's installing what ever he buys "eventually" on 15$ nashbar bb.
(how important can a part you can't even see possibly be??)

I have the miche primatos with the 135 and I like mine, havent had to do any matenience on them or the miche bottom bracket. And if i ever for some reason need to change the chainring i'll just buy a miche, NO PROBLEM. I do like the way they look over the suginos also, but I have all miche stuff so w/e. They're stiff too.

stiff, eh?

like i was when i saw your mom

you sound like a real winner.

I have looked at both and had this same internal debate. If you live in a wet/snowy area, i would suggest the sugino 75 and matching bb being that its serviceable. Cartridge bb are much more difficult, if you're lucky you get one you can replace the bearings. If not, you throw it away and get another. Loose ball allows you to overhaul your bb after a wet ride, or a grimy, salt road covered ride. A little more work, but the benefits are numerous.

now p00ki, you came in here with a bad attitude. you are yet to answer the op's question. why not just drop the smart ass tones, and answer his question. After you've actually added to this conversation, then you have some room to pick others apart.

or you could be a real OG and jump to campy. Drop the bills, roll with the record pista cranks and bb.

sugino for the win : )

now p00ki, you came in here with a bad attitude. you are yet to answer the op's question. why not just drop the smart ass tones, and answer his question. After you've actually added to this conversation, then you have some room to pick others apart.

Ok, fair is fair.

OP, based on your rationale, the crank itself doesn't matter. You will most likely not be able to feel the difference between the two cranks, assuming there's any difference at all. If you're an especially strong rider, your best bet is to spend money on stiff cycling shoes as this is the first place you'll notice any flex.
if the pedals are for street riding in sneakers, the point is moot. In this instance, just go with the cranks that you feel look nicer and match them with a decent appropriately sized* sealed cartridge bottom bracket as this will allow you to leave the cranks on (miche primato bb) without ever (or at least not in a long while) having to remove the cranks to remove the cups to remove the bearings to clean and re-grease them (sugino 75 bb).

*remember to factor in your rear hub+cog chainline before deciding on cranks or at least a bb-- this potentially makes a difference.

Just for the sake of being pretty, I would say try and find last year's Miche's over this years (silver ring v black). Sure there is the 144bcd, which could be seen as an improvement, but 135 isnt too bad. (maybe this will make the 135 stuff go on clearance!)
Another nice aspect about the Miche is the adjustable bottom bracket. So you can move chainline if it doesnt fit just right with your hubs.
ymmv but some people go years in crap weather with sealed bottom brackets and never have any trouble. And you have to ask yourself how committed to overhauling your bottom bracket you are. It is a fun thing to learn to do, but some people dont feel comfortable working on it.
Good luck

Romic can be contacted at:
Romic Cycle Co., Inc.
4434 Steffani Lane
Houston, TX 77041
Phone 713.466.7806

Romic can be contacted at:
Romic Cycle Co., Inc.
4434 Steffani Lane
Houston, TX 77041
Phone 713.466.7806

wrong thread, broseph.

**** unsealed BBs, go with miche

sugino 75s with miche bb. holla!

I have looked at both and had this same internal debate. If you live in a wet/snowy area, i would suggest the sugino 75 and matching bb being that its serviceable. Cartridge bb are much more difficult, if you're lucky you get one you can replace the bearings. If not, you throw it away and get another. Loose ball allows you to overhaul your bb after a wet ride, or a grimy, salt road covered ride. A little more work, but the benefits are numerous.

now p00ki, you came in here with a bad attitude. you are yet to answer the op's question. why not just drop the smart ass tones, and answer his question. After you've actually added to this conversation, then you have some room to pick others apart.

Except for the part where carts don't need maintenance everytime it rains, never goes out of adjustment and takes about 1 minute to install.

Miche BB is ****. The 75s are a decent kit, but overpriced. OP, just get the Sugino Messenger cranks. You get cheaper product, better value, and JIS BBs to pick from. Both the 75s and Miche use ISO BBs, and 135 BCD on the Miche is only used, akaik, on campy road cranks. Yea...$100/chainring.

Wrong. New Miche's are 144. Also, the actual taper of the Sugino RD's is a source of much frustration and confusion. They basically ONLY work with the Sugino RD 103mm BB. Plus, you end up with a chainline that's 2mm outboard of where it "should" be.

the actual taper of the Sugino RD's is a source of much frustration and confusion. They basically ONLY work with the Sugino RD 103mm BB.

Duh...?

They basically ONLY work with the Sugino RD 103mm BB. Plus, you end up with a chainline that's 2mm outboard of where it "should" be.

ushoboutdat?

I would suggest Sugino, but that's because I don't like Italians as much as I like Japanese - and I'm half italian.

I endorse the Sugino Messenger suggestion.

As for the debate regarding BBs: just because one picks one crankset over the other, doesn't mean he/she has to choose the BB from the same manufacturer. The nice thing about square taper BBs is, everyone and their dog makes them. You got choices.

^^ While everyone and their mother makes square taper BBs, its important to remember that JIS cranks will bottom out on ISO taper BBs; conversely, ISO cranks sit too far out on JIS BBs. If the op goes with Miche, I'd suggest forking over additional cash for a Campy BB; very, very high quality ISO BBs.

The wise choice is to avoid ISO altogether. Very few manufacturers use ISO, outside of grandfathered Campy, Miche, and some NJS stuff. The rest of the world is using JIS or has switched to external bearing systems or ISIS/Octalink.

^^^I don't disagree, but you can achieve the correct chainline with either ISO or JIS, by bearing in mind their difference:



If you install an ISO crank on a J.I.S. spindle, it will sit about 4.5 mm farther out than it would on an ISO spindle of the same length.

Confersely, if you install a J.I.S. crank on an ISO spindle, it will wind up about 4.5 mm farther in than it would on a J.I.S spindle of the same length.

Theoretically, ISO cranks should only be used on ISO spindles, and J.I.S. cranks only on J.I.S. spindles.

In practice, you can very often get away with mixing these sizes, as long as you select a spindle length that gives the desired chainline.

get the sugino's with a phil bb. you'll be stoked

If you want to spend big money and actually get some performance gains, go carbon. Otherwise there is no reason to spend over $100 on cranks. Buy XD's or Andels and spend the rest of the $$ on flowers for your girl.

Sugino RD2 (which is pretty much any RD you can buy right now including all of the Carebear colors) chainline is 45mm on the 103 BB. Sugino's web site confirms this: http://www.suginoltd.co.jp/singlespeeder_e.html (look for where it says "CL = 45mm")
RD's, like many JIS cranks, will bottom out on an ISO spindle.

I have looked at both and had this same internal debate. If you live in a wet/snowy area, i would suggest the sugino 75 and matching bb being that its serviceable. Cartridge bb are much more difficult, if you're lucky you get one you can replace the bearings. If not, you throw it away and get another. Loose ball allows you to overhaul your bb after a wet ride, or a grimy, salt road covered ride. A little more work, but the benefits are numerous.


This is absolutely horrible advice. In wet areas (like where I live and ride) sealed cartridge BBs are the only way to go. They are sealed against the elements, last a long time, and need no attention once they are properly installed.

Loose ball BBs on the other hand need constant adjustment and also need cleaning after a good downpour.

miches it is. Thanks internet!

Specialites TA ? (http://http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/alize.asp)

This is absolutely horrible advice. In wet areas (like where I live and ride) sealed cartridge BBs are the only way to go. They are sealed against the elements, last a long time, and need no attention once they are properly installed.

Loose ball BBs on the other hand need constant adjustment and also need cleaning after a good downpour.

you can ride a 75 BB in the rain...i've done it a lot. you might have to service the BB every 6-12 months.
it doesn't need any adjustment after it's installed if you install it properly. i also ride loose ball hubs in all types of weather it's not as a big of a deal as everyone likes to make it. what do you think people rode around on before cartridge BB and hubs existed.

Those TA track cranks are problematic, though I don't remember what the problem was.

If you're going french, just get the Stronglights from Business Cycles.

The SE draft has an excellent 1 piece crank that pretty much kicks sugino and miche's ass.

you can ride a 75 BB in the rain...i've done it a lot. you might have to service the BB every 6-12 months.
it doesn't need any adjustment after it's installed if you install it properly. i also ride loose ball hubs in all types of weather it's not as a big of a deal as everyone likes to make it. what do you think people rode around on before cartridge BB and hubs existed.

Bottom brackets that needed a lot of servicing......

The SE draft has an excellent 1 piece crank that pretty much kicks sugino and miche's ass.

Linky?

Loose ball BBs on the other hand need constant adjustment and also need cleaning after a good downpour.


Bottom brackets that needed a lot of servicing......

yeah they need servicing after every rain

^^^^^rubbish

yeah they need servicing after every rain

^^^^^rubbish

Just why would you recommend a loose ball bottom bracket? What is the advantage to someone riding on the street?

the only disadvantage is you need to service it once every 6-12 months
which is not a big deal. it shouldn't keep someone from using it.
you should be inspecting tuning up your bike at least every 6-12 months anyway.
it takes 15 minutes to service a bottom bracket.

everyone ride arrospoks cause if not you might have to tru a wheel one day

it takes 15 minutes to service a bottom bracket.


lols.

*ed: i should clarify: "lols, unless you have a significant bit of experience as a bicycle mechanic (and even then...), which OP apparently does not."

really i don't know nothin my wife fixes my bike for me

the only disadvantage is you need to service it once every 6-12 months
which is not a big deal. it shouldn't keep someone from using it.
you should be inspecting tuning up your bike at least every 6-12 months anyway.
it takes 15 minutes to service a bottom bracket.

everyone ride arrospoks cause if not you might have to tru a wheel one day

So there are no advantages, only disadvantages, yet you still recommend them. Um, okay......

So there are no advantages, only disadvantages, yet you still recommend them. Um, okay......

i didn't recommend it
i said i did it and it works fine for me
i was correcting the false claims you made above

i didn't recommend it
i said i did it and it works fine for me
i was correcting the false claims you made above

Exactly what false claims?

Exactly what false claims?

I guess he was referring to


Loose ball BBs on the other hand need constant adjustment and also need cleaning after a good downpour.

Bottom brackets that needed a lot of servicing......

I have Sugino 75 cranks but avoided the sugino BB for a long time because it was unsealed. I tried a variety of cartridge BBs (mostly Phil and Shimano) and never found one that I was satisfied with in terms of quality, durability, and/or chainline. The Phil especially had problems with premature bearing wear and other quality issues that made it a real ***** to install :eek:. Finally, I sprung for the unsealed 75 bb and am 100% satisfied with it. In fact, I like that fact that I can disassemble it and inspect it for wear. You can't do that with sealed. The only drawback is occasionally overhauling it...and I'm ok with that. Plus its insanely smooth.

I agree that sealed is usually better, but if you have a Sugino 75 crank, you just can't beat the 75 BB.

I guess he was referring to

Do you disagree that after a good Helsinki downpour (quite like a good Riga downpour) your unsealed BB would need a shot of grease?


I have Sugino 75 cranks but avoided the sugino BB for a long time because it was unsealed. I tried a variety of cartridge BBs (mostly Phil and Shimano) and never found one that I was satisfied with in terms of quality, durability, and/or chainline. The Phil especially had problems with premature bearing wear and other quality issues that made it a real ***** to install :eek:. Finally, I sprung for the unsealed 75 bb and am 100% satisfied with it. In fact, I like that fact that I can disassemble it and inspect it for wear. You can't do that with sealed. The only drawback is occasionally overhauling it...and I'm ok with that. Plus its insanely smooth.

I agree that sealed is usually better, but if you have a Sugino 75 crank, you just can't beat the 75 BB.
Can we agree that the 75 isn't the best choice for crank if you are riding on the street in all kinds of weather?

Anyone know: what do these cranks weigh with BB?

Do you disagree that after a good Helsinki downpour (quite like a good Riga downpour) your unsealed BB would need a shot of grease?

Look, I have no idea one way or the other, I don't even remember when was the last time I cycled on a bike with an unsealed BB, let alone if after a good shower the BB needed to be re-greased. I won't weigh on either side of the debate. I just thought it was pretty obvious what the person you responded to, was referring to.

Theoretically speaking, I expect an unsealed BB to be less suitable for rainy weather, than a sealed cartridge BB. But nobody was arguing that, I think. Whether a one-day ride in particularly bad weather would require regreasing the unsealed BB, well, that I am sorry to say, I don't know.

Since it isn't my money, I suggest trying Truvativ's (SRAM) Omnium crankset. Outboard bearings with a two-piece crank system like the Campagnolo UT cranks. Supposedly much stiffer than standard three-piece crankets; that's the general concensus anyway.

http://www.businesscycles.com/graphics/tcr-sram.jpg

Picture courtesy www.businesscycles.com