Northeast - NYC Congestion Pricing - it's a coming

Promising (http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/31/congestion-commission-recommendation-first-look/)


http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/01_28/pricing_proposal.jpg

Streetsblog has gotten hold of the Traffic Congestion Mitigation Commission recommendation, which should be voted on this hour. According to the version we have (pdf), the commission's alternative to Mayor Bloomberg's plan is expected to exceed the 6.3% VMT reduction required by the federal government, and raise an estimated $491 million per year for mass transit. Other details include:

* An $8 fee to drive into Manhattan south of 60th Street on weekdays between 6 a.m. and 6 p.m.
* Trucks pay $21, except for low-emission trucks which pay $7
* East and west side highways would NOT be free; the cordon would start at bridge exits in Manhattan
* Increased on-street parking meter rates within the zone
* "[T]he commission recommends that the city be required to offer communities a residential parking permit program (RPP) prior to the start of congestion pricing and to track park-and-ride activity as part of a comprehensive monitoring program."
* Elimination of the resident parking tax exemption for off-street parking garages and lots within the zone
* "All funds from increased on-street parking rates and the elimination of the resident parking tax exemption within the zone should be dedicated by the City of New York to additional transit, pedestrian, bicycle, and parking management improvements, including, but not limited to, expanded ferry service, bus signalization, BRT investments, bicycle facilities, and pedestrian enhancements."
* For EZ Pass users, the value of all tolls would be deducted from the fee up to $8
* A $1 surcharge for motorists who don't use EZ Pass
* $1 surcharge on taxi and black car trips that start and end within the zone during pricing hours
* A lockbox, or "dedicated transit account," will be created, aimed mainly at funding the MTA Capital Plan
* Short-term strategic improvements to subway, bus, and express bus service should be put in place before pricing kicks in
* Traffic and environmental monitoring program in place before the start of pricing along with a thorough review along the lines of SEQRA

Passages from the recommendation report:

* "Compared to the Mayor’s plan, the Commission’s plan has considerably lower operating and capital costs and a simpler fee structure. By increasing both the cost of taxi trips and parking within the zone, the plan ensures that those who live inside the zone also pay for auto use. The plan will also reduce traffic in neighborhoods adjacent to the zone, decrease vehicle emissions, and benefit the City and regional economy."
* "In terms of economic equity, the Commission’s plan will negatively impact a small proportion of New Yorkers of limited income: those who drive to work in the CBD and have no feasible transit alternative. This group represents less than one percent of all commuters to the CBD."
* "[T]he Commission believes that the Commission’s plan is the first step towards a coordinated traffic management strategy for Manhattan and the region."

Not exactly. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/nyregion/31congest.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=congestion&st=nyt&oref=slogin) ("Congestion Pricing Plan is Panned in Albany", NY Times, 1/31/08)

Promising... I really hope so. I don't think it's going to do much for congestion, but I hope it will raise more funds for alternative transit.

I'll be writing all my congresscritters to tell them I support it, primarily because it should raise money for mass and alternative transit. If you support it, let your reps know about it.

Imagine express buses with dedicated bus lanes... real bus lanes, not the ones every driver ignores in NYC.

Or real bike lanes so you wouldn't have to fight for space (as much) while riding around NYC.

Then again, I'm in a sour mood 'cause I almost became a hood ornament courtesy a right hook on York and 61st this evening. One of these days I'm not going to react fast enough when a car comes from behind and on my left and tries making a right when I'm 5 feet from the intersection...

Well, I can't agree with this plan.

What it will do is clear the streets of NYers that can take the subway so that the commuters from NJ can come in for free. No way that'll pass.

Just another tax. It will not make a dent in traffic congestion.
As long as traffic agents stand on corners in groups and allow buses and trucks to block intesections we'll be in the same mess.
Although I'm an advid cyclist I'm in a serivce business that requires a car in Manahattan.
I'd gladly twice that fee if I thought it would help.

I'm curious as to how many people would see this as a deterent though because most people drive into the city so as not to rely on public transportation. Perhaps they'll just see it as another expense associated with coming into the city. The residential parking permit idea is an interesting one though because the one thing few want to pay for is parking; $8 is one thing but $20-$30 is another. I'm thrilled the greenway has come such a long way because it minimizes the time I need to spend in traffic.

Remember it's not that you'll walk along Houston and not see any cars. They're looking to cut a small percentage to start and adjust until the appropriate amount of people are in.

I don't like the fact that NJ drivers won't pay anything extra - that's a bit messed up but I'm sure will be a bargaining chip. I do like that all the revenue is supposed to go towards public transportation and bike/ped upgrades. If it does that would be great...though I have my doubts.

It's a great first step - let's see what happens but write in to support it!

I don't necessarily think it will make any significant improvement in traffic congestion or pollution, however, I think it's a step in the right direction.

Unless the metro area bucks its current trend, the population will only grow. That means even more people will drive in, even if that percentage is relatively small based on the population. That just boils down to increased congestion and pollution.

I don't see any movement by anyone opposing congestion pricing to voluntarily try to reduce congestion and pollution or to help support expanded mass and alternative transit. I haven't heard anyone say the situation will improve without us doing anything.

I'm not sure it's the best plan out there, but the idea to improve and increase mass and alternative transit is one I support, and congestion pricing can help fund it. As for improving air quality and reducing pollution, I think that needs to be addressed at a larger level, but every little bit helps.

Remember it's not that you'll walk along Houston and not see any cars. They're looking to cut a small percentage to start and adjust until the appropriate amount of people are in.

I don't like the fact that NJ drivers won't pay anything extra - that's a bit messed up but I'm sure will be a bargaining chip. I do like that all the revenue is supposed to go towards public transportation and bike/ped upgrades. If it does that would be great...though I have my doubts.

It's a great first step - let's see what happens but write in to support it!

Quite honestly, New Jersey drivers and the one-way toll are responsible for a good amount of congestion in Lower Manhattan. Simply bringing back two way tolls on the Holland Tunnel would give those seeking to avoid tolls an incentive to use other routes.

Unfortunately I fail to see how it will change anything at all. It will eventually trickle down to all of us in the cost of doing business. As we have seen in the past it will help to cause firms doing business in the city to look to relocate in areas that cost less or the city will give tax incentives to them. Right now I tend to think it's a bit of smoke and mirrors more than a well thought out plan. I would just like to see them close a few streets to vehicles except residents, but that is a fairytale too.

It's worked fairly well in London...

Quite honestly, New Jersey drivers and the one-way toll are responsible for a good amount of congestion in Lower Manhattan. Simply bringing back two way tolls on the Holland Tunnel would give those seeking to avoid tolls an incentive to use other routes.
Exactly.

Many would argue that the congestion is caused by Manhattan residents and interborough traffic, but I really believe that that is not the case and it is the suburban and NJ residents. I am personal proof of this as I work in NJ and have to enter/exit Manhattan sometimes three times a week and sometimes twice a day.


* A lockbox, or "dedicated transit account," will be created, aimed mainly at funding the MTA Capital Plan
This is a concern of mine, as I believe the most expensive programs will not positively impact our straphangers as much as simple service improvements. Capital Projects include:

2nd Avenue Subway (10+ yr project)
Grand Central Terminal Expansion

However, there are two very positive projects:
East Side Access
Fulton Central Station

Finally a question: How does someone entering the CBD from the north get tolled?

Exactly.

Many would argue that the congestion is caused by Manhattan residents and interborough traffic, but I really believe that that is not the case and it is the suburban and NJ residents. I am personal proof of this as I work in NJ and have to enter/exit Manhattan sometimes three times a week and sometimes twice a day.


This is a concern of mine, as I believe the most expensive programs will not positively impact our straphangers as much as simple service improvements. Capital Projects include:

2nd Avenue Subway (10+ yr project)
Grand Central Terminal Expansion

However, there are two very positive projects:
East Side Access
Fulton Central Station

Finally a question: How does someone entering the CBD from the north get tolled?

Probably more cars come from the north and east than from the west. I used to regularly drive in from Queens (left in 1999) and the traffic was horrendous and I commuted off hours for the most part. When I moved to Rockland County I found it took me less time to travel 25 miles than it used to take to travel 15 miles. The slowest part of my commute from Queens was getting from the east to the west side. Probably more traffic comes over the free bridges than the toll ones.

All vehicles will be tolled either by their EZ-Pass or license plate recognition. There will be a $1 surcharge if you don't use EZ-Pass.

I now live in Manhattan, and am not happy about the fact that I will lose my parking tax exemption (my car is parked below 60th St), and will have to pay $8 to use it when I want to go to the beach or go shopping. I work weekends and my days off are during the week.

A recent survey said that "only" about a third of Manhattanites own cars. I was surprised the figure was that high. Most of the people I know who live downtown and actually own cars keep them in parking lots or garages during the week and only use them to get out of town on weekends. Some people even share cars because they don't use them enough to justify the high cost of owning one.

The survey also said that something like 28% of cars in Manhattan are cruising for a parking space. Back in the day when I owned a car I had to move it, from one side of the street to the other, every day,whether I wanted to use it or not. Maybe if parking regulations for residents was a bit more flexible, and drivers didn't have to circle the block 10 times looking for a space, there'd be less traffic.

The mind set of many New Yorkers is to just suck it up and pay. Until the TA starts making travel with bikes into the city easier I see no great benefit. You cannot bring a bike on a train at rush hour and on off peak times they will allow no more than two and if your lucky three bikes on one train. Like PD parking permits seem to be given out so freely I see exemptions to the tax plan also will be given out the same way. The plan is nothing but a money raising tax that I don't see going to solving anything but pay raises for over paid bureaucrats. It may have worked in London ,and I salute them, but unfortunately folks in England tend to look at things in a different light. Until you change the attitude of drivers into NYC I don't see any change. Mayor Michael needs to look at other way in addition to this one.

There needs to be a tipping point where the time and cost of public transportation is worth the savings over driving. This means increasing the costs of driving and parking in the city while lowering the cost of LIRR, MetroNorth, NJ Transit, subways and buses.

There needs to be a tipping point where the time and cost of public transportation is worth the savings over driving. This means increasing the costs of driving and parking in the city while lowering the cost of LIRR, MetroNorth, NJ Transit, subways and buses.

Another good point Air.

the mta in terms of the subway does not monitor the number of bikes on a train or when they are used at all. if they have rules they are not enforced. however, try bringing a bike on a subway at rush hour.

There's just a space issue - walkers and baby strollers are cursed at during rush hour too.

Now triple the service and create seats during the height of rush hour as a result of congestion pricing and watch people embrace it with open arms.

There's just a space issue - walkers and baby strollers are cursed at during rush hour too.

Now triple the service and create seats during the height of rush hour as a result of congestion pricing and watch people embrace it with open arms.

A space issue... definitely. I don't think the subway alone can solve it though, they need to augment the subway with reliable and speedy bus service. Put in those dedicated bus lanes, no vehicles apart from buses. Put in cameras to enforce it if need be, 'cause it's not like anyone pays attention to the bus lanes on 1st and 2nd during the enforcement hours. I'd love to see streetcars/light rail as well, but we've already got buses, we just need to make them efficient by giving them their own space in town.

Just make it a point to create dedicated bus and bike lanes to expand mass and alternative transit. Take away space for other vehicles as necessary. Actively create more congestion, maybe that will persuade people to take mass transit or ride a bike or something.

My ref. to "train" was surface rail such as the LIRR and MNRR. Trying to take a bike into the hole during the rush is bordering on the insane.

There's just a space issue - walkers and baby strollers are cursed at during rush hour too.

Now triple the service and create seats during the height of rush hour as a result of congestion pricing and watch people embrace it with open arms.

Just a DIFFERENT space issue. There's no room on the tracks for more trains (in Manhattan during peak hours). The trains are already "bumper to bumper" on the tracks just like the cars are on the road.

BTW: Has anyone stopped to consider where they can build the toll booths? How many $100 million buildings will they have to knock down to install the toll plazas? And what happens to the air quality for the other buildings that are now conveniently located next to thousands of idling vehicles 24 hours a day?

I'm all for reducing congestion, but let's face it, this is an asinine idea. Plus the only congestion this plan is addressing in the congestion caused by too many dollar bills in the tax payer's pockets.

If they actually wanted to reduce congestion, they would start with $5000 fines for double parking and grid locking. They would start with a policy where any officer on the street and not on a call is required to write the ticket with failing to do so being actionable.

If they really wanted to reduce congestion, they'd build a straight through bypass from Long Island to Jersey without Manhattan access.

If they really wanted to reduce congestion, they'd build big enough free parking lots at key subway access points in Williamsburg, Red Hook, Long Island City, the Bronx, etc. If I could park my car and take the train there's no way I would EVER drive into the city during peak hours

This is really only about one thing: revenue

There is an increasing number of cars and people and a constant amount of space.
I've said before that they should enforce the gridlock laws and the double and illegal parking laws.
This will allow traffic to move more efficiently through the city.
They will not do this or any of the suggestions made by nycphotography.
They'll do the next best thing in their interest....CHARGE THE MOTORIST.

If they really wanted to reduce congestion, they'd build big enough free parking lots at key subway access points in Williamsburg, Red Hook, Long Island City, the Bronx, etc. If I could park my car and take the train there's no way I would EVER drive into the city during peak hours

This is really only about one thing: revenue

If the City really wanted to reduce congestion they'd encourage businesses to relocate in the outer boroughs and decrease the need for people to travel into Manhattan. Granted, this would take time and the city might have to offer whatever concessions places like New Jersey offers businesses who consider leaving Manhattan.

I'm not quite as negative about this as some folks, but I seriously doubt this plan will get enacted. There's too much political opposition, traffic will snarl fiercely above 60th, taxi drivers will pitch a fit (anyone besides me try to pay for a taxi by credit card yet? :D), prices for goods below 60th will go up.

And considering that the MTA is in charge of a lot of public transportation in NYC, I don't have much confidence that tossing millions at them is going to produce a tangible benefit.

It'd be great to reduce vehicular traffic in Manhattan. But if that's the goal, why not set all bridge and tunnel entrance fees to $15 and be done with it? ;)



If the City really wanted to reduce congestion they'd encourage businesses to relocate in the outer boroughs and decrease the need for people to travel into Manhattan....
...and it would gut a nice chunk of the economy. Why not get all the businesses and residents to relocate, too, while we're at it? :D

Did building the CitiBank building in Long Island City gut the economy? It's still located in New York City and subject to New York City taxes. "Spreading the wealth" could lower the property value of Manhattan, a bit, and raise it in downtown areas of Brooklyn, Queens, The Bronx, and Staten Island but, like the falling dollar, that could have an upside as well.

Did building the CitiBank building in Long Island City gut the economy? It's still located in New York City and subject to New York City taxes. "Spreading the wealth" could lower the property value of Manhattan, a bit, and raise it in downtown areas of Brooklyn, Queens, The Bronx, and Staten Island but, like the falling dollar, that could have an upside as well.

I agree. Unchecked development in a congested area will bring more congestion not relieve it. Forget about the huge real estate development for the west side rail yards. How about a moratorium on new development in Manhattan. Why not turn midtown, say 57th to 40th from 5th to 8th Ave's into a huge pedestrian mall, with deliveries allowed only during the early morning hours, say 3am to 7am.

Just a DIFFERENT space issue. There's no room on the tracks for more trains (in Manhattan during peak hours). The trains are already "bumper to bumper" on the tracks just like the cars are on the road.

Depends which line. Second Ave Sagas had a great write up a few months ago about which routes are at capacity and which aren't. Things like speeding up construction on the 2nd Ave subway, the 7 line extension, the LIRR route to Grand Central, 1 rail seat to JFK (by the way - already exists), etc... can be done with infusions of cash (or at the very least keep them on track). Additional high speed bus routes (maybe even a trolley system along some of the busier streets like 34th or 42nd) will also take people out of the subways and help spread the peak rush times (so it will at least seem like the service has increased ;) ). By lessening the people at peak times the trains will be delayed less and service will be better.

Y'know, the last time I checked, most of the folks in Brooklyn want to keep it exactly the way it is now. Or are you a big proponent of Atlantic Yards? :D

Relocation also doesn't always work out. Goldman Sachs built a huge office building in Jersey City, and their staff basically refused to move there. Last I heard, there's still quite a bit of vacant space in the building.

Of course, if you're going to actually reduce congestion in Manhattan, you'd have to relocate all types of attractions: businesses, residences, museums, theaters, restaurants, hotels etc. I.e. you'd have to seriously contract Manhattan's economy in order to make a dent in reducing the current traffic levels via this method.

A congestion charge, combined with better public transport and non-motorized rickshaws, might actually work in reducing traffic. The problem is that politically, it will not fly. Same for the career of any Mayor who specifically tries to relocate businesses to an outer borough, LI, NJ, or CT at the expense of a Manhattan location.

Another (more realistic) goal is to introduce traffic calming measures, as well as improving some bike facilities -- particularly those that encourage cyclists to travel lesser-used roads, improve safety at intersections (where most accidents happen), and last but not least, ride WITH traffic....



Unchecked development in a congested area will bring more congestion not relieve it. Forget about the huge real estate development for the west side rail yards. How about a moratorium on new development in Manhattan.
I think you have a bright future in the competitive world of professional comedy, my friend. :D



Why not turn midtown, say 57th to 40th from 5th to 8th Ave's into a huge pedestrian mall, with deliveries allowed only during the early morning hours, say 3am to 7am.
1) It would make the surrounding areas insanely congested and impassible.
2) Taxis would (justifiably) pitch a fit.
3) Businesses need deliveries throughout the day.
4) Again, politically impossible.

I do support making Central Park car-free (except the transverses of course), but this isn't going to fly either.

Y'know, the last time I checked, most of the folks in Brooklyn want to keep it exactly the way it is now. Or are you a big proponent of Atlantic Yards? :D



Well, then, maybe Congestion Pricing is the cost of keeping Brooklyn 'the way it is now.' :p

Brooklyn wasn't so anti-development until all those displaced Manhattanites relocated there :D

Brooklyn is the one spot where resident drivers are going to get most completely hosed by these charges. Everyone else can offset based on their tolls, while we get the full brunt of the charge compared with the present... I suppose the one upside is that it makes the Battery Tunnel a more attractive option no matter what time you are driving in...

Brooklyn is the one spot where resident drivers are going to get most completely hosed by these charges. Everyone else can offset based on their tolls, while we get the full brunt of the charge compared with the present... I suppose the one upside is that it makes the Battery Tunnel a more attractive option no matter what time you are driving in...

Depends where in Brooklyn. Places like Ozone Park and Red Hook - yeah, tough to get to the city from there. Park Slope...meh.

We'll have to see exactly how it shakes out but it looks like Manhattan resident drivers will be the ones to really get the shaft. They could easily wind up paying congestion rates simply to move the car from one parking space to another!

We'll have to see exactly how it shakes out but it looks like Manhattan resident drivers will be the ones to really get the shaft. They could easily wind up paying congestion rates simply to move the car from one parking space to another!

There were going to be provisions against that (since they're not driving around looking for a spot...technically).

Now this (http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/02/12/london-imposes-50-guzzler-fee-on-suvs-and-lux-roadsters/) is something that would probably see a pretty quick change:


London Mayor Ken Livingstone is on a tear. Yesterday he announced a £500 million investment in new bicycling infrastructure. Today, he approved a plan to charge the drivers of SUVs, high powered sports cars and other large engine, high emission vehicles a £25 fee ($50!) to drive into Central London's congestion charging zone. Simultaneously, low emission vehicles will become exempt from paying the charge. In a press release, Livingstone said,


The CO2 charge will encourage people to switch to cleaner vehicles or public transport and ensure that those who choose to carry on driving the most polluting vehicles help pay for the environmental damage they cause. This is the "polluter pays" principle. At the same time, the 100 per cent discount we are introducing for the lowest CO2 emitting vehicles will give drivers in London an incentive to use the least polluting cars available.

BBC News has more:


The new charges come into force on 27 October this year.

Transport for London (TfL) estimates about 33,000 vehicles that will now fall into the £25 charge sector drive into London each day.

It predicts about two-thirds of these will no longer come into the charge zone once the new fee is introduced.

London's transport commissioner, Peter Hendy, said the new charges were likely to bring in £30m to £50m a year, with most of this money going on new cycling and walking initiatives...

...The National Alliance Against Tolls said: "This move is not based on logic but on the whipping up of prejudices against those who use these particular vehicles."

Driving is the new smoking :p

Driving is the new smoking :p



HAHAHAHAHA

I work on 3rd Ave. You'd love the bus lane on 3rd Ave between 50-52nd st. All parked up with police offerers personal cars with the placards in the windshield. What a joke. I think SERIOUS enforcement is all we need.

I work on 3rd Ave. You'd love the bus lane on 3rd Ave between 50-52nd st. All parked up with police offerers personal cars with the placards in the windshield. What a joke. I think SERIOUS enforcement is all we need.

Good point, but here's my theory: the police control these "badges" and the enforcement. We won't gain any parking spots, only lose them to more police and emergency vehicle parking. NYC will always be "at capacity" with vehicles, whether they are luxury, taxis, police or carpools. Probably the only way for us to have "lower" congestion is to have separated bike paths that you just can't fit a vehicle on...

I work on 3rd Ave. You'd love the bus lane on 3rd Ave between 50-52nd st. All parked up with police offerers personal cars with the placards in the windshield. What a joke. I think SERIOUS enforcement is all we need.

Take pictures and send them into http://nyc.uncivilservants.org/ Newspapers have been running with some of the stories and tickets have been issued. Every little bit helps - if there's no complaining there's no one to change anything.

I think theres something like that in the teens and twenties on 9th ave. They really need to step up subway frequency and just expand service. There are a lot of people in areas of Jersey that drive in that I know, because mass transit isn't that convenient, and the cost is so high, it's just a little more to get to work faster, in the comfort of their cars. The only reason I stopped riding my bike to work in Manhattan was I knew I was going to die. In the AM there were so many deliveries I could just forget about the bike lanes. They were always jammed with trucks double parked. Little to no enforcement. People in New York City will do what ever they can get away with. That shows must with the way they drive, or just block bike lanes and actual lanes for their own inconvenience, endangering other around them.

JuHas anyone stopped to consider where they can build the toll booths? How many $100 million buildings will they have to knock down to install the toll plazas? And what happens to the air quality for the other buildings that are now conveniently located next to thousands of idling vehicles 24 hours a day?
You don't need to build toll plazas - you can do it all with cameras, like they do in London, and/or use highspeed (cough) EZPass.

And thats why we have toll plazas everywhere!!!!

I agree. Unchecked development in a congested area will bring more congestion not relieve it. Forget about the huge real estate development for the west side rail yards. How about a moratorium on new development in Manhattan. Why not turn midtown, say 57th to 40th from 5th to 8th Ave's into a huge pedestrian mall, with deliveries allowed only during the early morning hours, say 3am to 7am.

That wouldn't be anywhere near enough time to deliver the volume of goods that get sold in NYC.

That wouldn't be anywhere near enough time to deliver the volume of goods that get sold in NYC.
Very true; it is truly difficult to approximate the massive consumption that goes on in NYC each day. There is some major distribution happening right in Manhattan; B&H Photo Video and J&R Music World are just a couple that are leaders in their industries, requiring incoming and outgoing traffic all day long.


You don't need to build toll plazas - you can do it all with cameras, like they do in London, and/or use highspeed (cough) EZPass.
We would love to think so, but LPR (license plate recognition) technology would need to be combined with RFID (radio freq. identification) to be truly repeatable and not incorrectly bill people.

If anyone really thinks that this money they intend to get is going to do anything but make a big bureaucracy grow bigger is living in a fairy tale . Who do you think is going to enforce it ? Where do you think they are going to get the money to enforce it. Oh you say the police. Right, the NYPD is some 40 K strong and this lumbering giant just barely does what it needs to do now. Parking agents / Brownies, they are under the PD. MTA yeah, ok, now I know you're smoking something. So who ? A new agency ? Do you get the point. The haves will pay. The have nots will not. The ony real way is for the whole island, and we know that would never fly. LPR's yeah ok that's if they are registered, legitimate plates from within NYS DMV system. They set up an LPR on a small bridge crossing north of NYC a while back. No traffic to speak of and they ran out of tickets in under an hour. Who is going to pay the people to run the system ? Again where do you think the money will come from ? Enforcement is the thing that is going to make this a joke. Good theory Congestion Pricing. Implementing a workable plan that is fair to everyone is another story. The support / infrastructure is not going to be able to allow it to work.

We would love to think so, but LPR (license plate recognition) technology would need to be combined with RFID (radio freq. identification) to be truly repeatable and not incorrectly bill people.

Though the technology exists and is already in Toronto.

Concerning the 'Lockbox' - I'm cautiously optimistic. You're right, there needs to be some checks and balances on it and the city & state doesn't have a great trackrecord with that. With federal money on the hook though perhaps there'll be more incentive.

Though the technology exists and is already in Toronto.
People that keep saying "it can't be enforced and the technology doesn't exist" are simply not aware of the facts. The technology does exist, and it's already being enforced successfully in other places, and in NYC in different contexts (EZ-Pass, tickets, whatever).

Whether it's a good idea or not is a different question - but the technology and backbone is there if the will is there.

The support / infrastructure is not going to be able to allow it to work.
Chances are, the simpler the technology deployment, the more likely you are right. You are absolutely right on the support issue.


Though the technology exists and is already in Toronto.

I'll show you sometime how LPR may be defeated, in certain situations, offline (of course)!

Maybe Toronto's LPR system is being used to collect tolls, but there are specific enforcement procedures that require consideration.

Also, London's system is not infallible, as I will note below.

LPR without an accompanying, identifying photo is unenforceable. LPR without segregated lanes to capture the vehicle and prosecute is not enforceable. LPR without RFID (like EZPass) will result in a huge amount of uncollected toll revenue. GPS will most likely be the ideal, high volume solution, but requires a higher level tech than RFID (EZPass).

Picture this: vehicles enter the "virtual", unlaned congestion crossing at every angle, on each other's bumper, partially obscuring both the vehicle tag and the vehicle. Result: lost revenue.

The London-based LPR System is dependent on people paying for the charge and the vehicle tag that is recognized (albeit with only 90% accuracy) and referencing that payee list. If you're not on the list, you get a bill. If you tailgate, you don't get a bill. If you change lanes at the right time, you don't get a bill.

Not everyone has EZPass, and EZPass's enforcement is dependant on vehicle separation and LPR. Will there be vehicle separation so you can run LPR on each car or truck? FYI, if you begin billing congestion charges on non-EZPass equipped vehicles, you'll not only see an increase in Vehicle Tag theft and bogus tags!

There's lost revenue with EZPass too - the way to combat that is to accidentally charge NJ drivers more which will balance the sheets :D

There's lost revenue with EZPass too - the way to combat that is to accidentally charge NJ drivers more which will balance the sheets :D
Ahhh be careful, you may be erroneously billed with congestion pricing [he glues a bogus license plate to Air's rear] :D