Road Cycling - wheel recommendations for a clydesdale

Hello all,

I did a search, and didn't come up with anything.

I'm a quasi-clydesdale at around 200lbs, plan to be around my "ideal weight" of 180 in the next few months.

From the research I've done, I'm under the impression that riders my size are very hard on wheels, especially road wheels, which seem to be notoriously fragile.

I'm looking at buying either a Specialed Allez Sport, or a Trek 1200......something in the $1000 price range. From what I've gathered on MTBreview.com, both of these bikes have had negative reviews concerning the wheels.

I've read about lower spoke-count wheels being a definite no-no for larger riders.

If I buy a spoke tension gauge, a truing stand, and a good book on truing wheels, and keep very, very close watch on spoke tension, (more than the average rider) will this help the durability of wheels?

Should I just swap the wheels out right away, for something more along the lines of touring, cyclocross, or hybrid wheels? Any recommendations? I do plan to ride the bike very "easily". I'll stay away from gravel roads, rail trails, potholes, etc. When I feel like getting nuts, I'll break out my trusty Moab.

Durability is more important to me than weight. I basically plan to bike in the summer to help cross-train for hockey season, so slightly tougher pedaling and higher rolling resistance isn't necessarily a bad thing in my case.

Would going to a larger tire, like a 700x25 or 700x28 help much?

Would I be better off with a bike more designed for heavy touring or cyclocross? I've test ridden all kinds of hybrids, and I just hate the geometry.

Sorry for the "dumb questions", and for the lenghty post. I just really want to make a very informed purchase. This bike purchase needs to be very durable. It took a year of "negotiations" to get "spousal approval".

Take the original set of wheels that came with the bike and sell them on E-bay. I would recommend Mavic Open Pro (36 spoke count). The 700 x 25's should work fine though you might want to consider a 28 on the rear. You could experience brake clearance (Forcing you to let some air out of the tire to remove it from the frame) issues with the 28's...

And finally the only dumb question is the one that wasn't asked.


Welcome aboard!

Originally posted by DAR71
I'm a quasi-clydesdale at around 200lbs, plan to be around my "ideal weight" of 180 in the next few months.

That's not so big, really. But you're right that if there's going to be a problem, it will be with cheap wheels.


I've read about lower spoke-count wheels being a definite no-no for larger riders.

All other things being equal, sure... but it depends on the wheels to some extent. And to how well they're prepared by the wheelbuilder. If the wheelbuilder is a machine, you can expect problems unless a capable human finishes the wheel prep.


If I buy a spoke tension gauge, a truing stand, and a good book on truing wheels, and keep very, very close watch on spoke tension, (more than the average rider) will this help the durability of wheels?

Yes. But what a PITA. Not that it's bad to have those things, but better to only need them when you're building new wheels or doing regular maintenance. Well-built wheels don't need frequent adjustments.


Should I just swap the wheels out right away, for something more along the lines of touring, cyclocross, or hybrid wheels? Any recommendations? I do plan to ride the bike very "easily". I'll stay away from gravel roads, rail trails, potholes, etc. When I feel like getting nuts, I'll break out my trusty Moab.

Durability is more important to me than weight. I basically plan to bike in the summer to help cross-train for hockey season, so slightly tougher pedaling and higher rolling resistance isn't necessarily a bad thing in my case.

If you're not a weight-weenie, and you're not racing, then I'd recommend something basic -- for example, Open Pro rims, 32-spoke 105 or Ultegra hubs, 14/15 Wheelsmith or DT spokes -- hand-built by a master wheelbuilder. You should be able to get something like this for under $200, and they will last indefinitely and probably only need to be tweaked once a year, if that.

(I weigh about 215, plus I usually carry 15 pounds of junk in my bags. My Airborne's touring wheels -- Mavic 519, 36-hole Ultegra hubs, Wheelsmith 14/15 spokes -- have 6000+ miles on them without ever needing to be even touched up. That's with 700x32c tires, though.)


Would going to a larger tire, like a 700x25 or 700x28 help much?

All other things being equal, fatter tires will absorb more shock. But wheels don't fail from shock (unless you hit something so hard you compress the tire enough to dent the rim). Fatter tires (if they fit the rim and clear the brakes and frame; be sure to check) will give you a more comfortable ride and help protect the rims from that sort of direct damage.


Would I be better off with a bike more designed for heavy touring or cyclocross? I've test ridden all kinds of hybrids, and I just hate the geometry.

I would certainly look at 'cross bikes, which are not only more robust but also more versatile than racing bikes. You might get everything you want from one, including the ability to fit it out for commuting or touring, and you could easily do various kinds of cross-terrain riding on one. A Jamis Nova, or a Surly Crosscheck, might be two interesting places to start.

RichC

I would recommend Mavic Open Pro (36 spoke count). The 700 x 25's should work fine though you might want to consider a 28 on the rear.

Wow. I would think that the typical 32 spoke wheel / 23mm tire is sturdy enough (assuming rider weight of less than 220lbs), but perhaps not?

36 spoke / 25 to 28mm seems very stout for non-touring riding.
I'm certainly not second-guessing the recommendation, but would genuinely like to better understand the reasoning behind it.

Oops. Just read Rich Clark's post. Never mind.

Hi,
well, if even if aren't a clydesdale (I weigh a lot more than you) upgrading the wheels when you get a new bike is the ideal time to do it. Here's my take on the situation, it depends entirely on you. If you are a typical rider; you can get away with the Open Pros. You might look at 32 spokes up front, and 36 in the rear. If you have a tendency to beat things to death; you might want something beefier. I use the CXP33 which is a little heavier than the OP, but much tougher (ride is a little harsher). There is life beyond Mavic. The Torelli Master is a terrific rim, and cheaper to boot. From the sound of your post; I'll guess Open Pro's would do the trick. Ultegra hubs are a good choice, and a nice cushy tire to start with would be the Rivendell Roly Poly. Your dealer should give you a few bucks credit for the stock tires. They will fit most frames, but check to be sure.

I posted this thread on the same topic a while back.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36162

Maybe some of the answers here will also help.

i bought a 2002 Allez three months ago. one month ago, a spoke broke. a week later, another spoke broke. the LBS is now working on getting Specialized to credit them for new wheels. yes what you've heard is true, they've had spoke problems in the past. i don't know if this is true of the current models, but possibly. oh and i'm 215 lbs. the Mavic CXP23 i'm riding around on in the back (a loaner from the LBS...must give them another call and find out when i can have my own wheels) hasn't popped yet. 200 (or 215) is not an unreasonable amount to stick on top of a bike. spokes should hold. LBS said the spokes were actually a bad batch, rather than it being necessarily a machine-built vs human-built issue.

if money's tight, you might want to keep the wheels for a little while. if they start popping spokes, your LBS should fix it for free. especially if you mention it while buying the bike.

or you might want to insist that they true the wheels before you buy the bike. then any 'machine' issues are in theory eliminated.

Thanks to all for the quick replies.

Dipper- thank you for the link to the other thread.

Rippo- Specialized is using Alex 400 rims on the '04. The '03 is listed as having "Alex" rims-no model given. I never thought about the warranty thing. That may be something to consider. On roadbikereview.com, almost every review of this bike lists spoke breakage as a problem. Granted, the Allez sport is a "low-end" road bike. However, when my wife (or any other non-cyclist) sees bikes for $150 at X-Mart every day, my $1000 "super bike" should last forever, in her eyes. I agree with you, though. 200-220lbs does not seem like an unreasonable amount of weight. It's not like I'm Andre the Giant or something.

I did find some "house-built" wheels on bikeman.com. Looks like 105 hubs with 36-hole Open Pro (32-hole front) for around $120 each. Anyone had experience with Bikeman.com?

I weigh something over 240 and ride 28 spoke Ritchey wheels on a Fuji Roubaix. The lbs stress-relieved and trued them before I took the bike home, tweaked the front wheel after a couple hundred miles, and trued both after 1000 miles, though neither was all that out of true. I have close to 500 miles on them since the truing, and they are both still in good shape. Talk to the people at the bike shop about your concerns, but I'd imagine that wheels shouldn't be a problem.

Originally posted by DAR71
Rippo- Specialized is using Alex 400 rims on the '04. The '03 is listed as having "Alex" rims-no model given. I never thought about the warranty thing. That may be something to consider. On roadbikereview.com, almost every review of this bike lists spoke breakage as a problem. Granted, the Allez sport is a "low-end" road bike. However, when my wife (or any other non-cyclist) sees bikes for $150 at X-Mart every day, my $1000 "super bike" should last forever, in her eyes. I agree with you, though. 200-220lbs does not seem like an unreasonable amount of weight. It's not like I'm Andre the Giant or something.



my 2002 has Alex "DA 22" rims, for what that's worth, with a Ritchey hub. someone pointed out to me (when i was asking online about my broken spokes) that these rims are pinned rather than welded, and apparently that creates some built in 'wibble' that can't ever be trued out. the Mavics appear to be welded. so perhaps the spokes were going to break no matter what. after all, the LBS trued my wheel after the first break, so it should have been perfect (lots of factors involved there!). who knows?

Rippo- I did find out that the "DA-22" rims are also on the '03, as well as the '02. This is the Allez.

The 400 rims are on the '04 as well as the '03 Allez Sport 27, which is the model I'm looking at. Hope they "fixed" the problem. Maybe I should wait a few months, and see what shows up in reviews.

Thank you for the info about the "pinned" seam, as opposed to the welded. Amazing what I've learned already.

Originally posted by DAR71
Rippo- I did find out that the "DA-22" rims are also on the '03, as well as the '02. This is the Allez.

The 400 rims are on the '04 as well as the '03 Allez Sport 27, which is the model I'm looking at. Hope they "fixed" the problem. Maybe I should wait a few months, and see what shows up in reviews.

Thank you for the info about the "pinned" seam, as opposed to the welded. Amazing what I've learned already.

you're welcome! i'm passing that along from someone else on the forum...this is a good place to learn stuff, some of it is even true!

since they're using different rims on the 04, it seems like it would be worth at least trying the stock wheels. you'll take a hit on ebay if you sell them, so why not get some miles out of them since they come with the bike anyway? just a thought.

Yes,
I bought a bike from Bikeman once (Gary Fisher Supercalibre), and have gotten a few bits here and there. They are good people.

A lot depends upon how you ride. How hard are you on the tires? Do you tend to be a heat seaking missile for every pothole in the road? Are you bouncing over curbs? What kind of roads are you riding?

I'm 250 and (knock on wood) haven't had any problems (yet) with the Shiimano RH-540's.

Check out Velomax, here is their response to my email. I've posted this before, so I apologize if this gets redundant...

"While you're certainly outside what we feel is the ideal weight, you don't compare to our test rider David Anthony. He's been on the Tempest II for almost a year, including trailer towing. Based upon this, we don't anticipate any problems. But do bear in mind that light wheels always have compromises. If you want super heavy duty, you might wait until we introduce our Atlas model in 2004.

Check this out....

http://www.velomax.com/site/Riders/dma_coffee.htm


Regards,"

The Tempest II's will be my X-mas present to myself.

I say stick with the original wheels unless you have a problem with them. I have a '99 Cannondale R600 which came with Mavic CXP 11, 32 hole wheels and 700x23 tires. I started riding again early summer and weighed about 220lbs. I hit potholes and rail road tracks on every single ride. Wheels are just fine.

I've got about 5 - 6,000 miles on a set of Velomax Circuits with no problems at all. My buddy John has about 10,000 miles on a set of Veocity Sparticus with no problems. I weigh in at 220, john isn't that heavy, he just has a reputation for breakin' stuff.

Clydesdale to Clydesdale, a well built set of 32 spoke wheels with straight 14 guage spokes will be fine on relatively smooth roads if you "ride light". 36 hole CXP33s properly built should be bullet proof even on rough roads. "ride light" means look for bumps and potholes and distribute your weight properly when you hit them. Incidentally something I often forget to do. My wheels are a set of Mavic Classics over 1000 miles on them and no problems so far.