Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Geared Track Frame *good idea?*

I have heard and seen a few pictures of some Keirin racers' training bikes that are track frames equipped with brakes, shifters and derailiuers? Would it be a good idea to have a track frame equipped this way or should I just purchase a road bike? I really like the way my track frames feel so I thought this would be a good alternative as opposed to a road bike. Your thoughts please, pros and cons?

Thank you,
TDHK

You'll probably have to pay for a custom frame in order to get something that has track geometry and trackends that also has a deraileur mount and cable housing and drilling for brakes.

If that's OK with you, I'd say go for it.

Also, can anyone assist me in what kind of rear hub and derailleur I would need for a track frame if I go that route? The rear is spaced at 120 but what kind of gearing is that 6-7-8-9 speed? I apologize for my ignorance in this area but I know nothing about road bikes and gearing.

Thanks,
TDHK

Curious,
thanks for the support! but what kind of gearing would I be looking at?

TDHK

a geared track bike isn't a track bike, period. if you want a geared bike that rides similar to a keirin frame, look for an old steel criterium bike.

I know of no track frame that would have a deraileur hanger. Your best bet is using a gear hub, like the Shimano Nexus, SRAM Spectro or the Rohloff Speedhub.


EDIT: geometry wise, I don't know if it would be a good idea or not. I am sure it can be done, though. Just use gear hubs.

Since this would be a custom project, you'd just have the frame builder make the rear spacing the same as normal road frames, which means you could end up with just about any gearing you wanted. I'd try to contact the guy behind this build > http://velospace.org/node/1753
Seems to be about what you're going for, right?

get a road bike.

if you really want it to be just like your track bike, get a custom built with the same geometry. only different spacing in the rear, holes for brakes, and a der. hanger.

it would probably cost about the same as an undented NJS frame anyhow.

get a road bike.

if you really want it to be just like your track bike, get a custom built with the same geometry. only different spacing in the rear, holes for brakes, and a der. hanger.

it would probably cost about the same as an undented NJS frame anyhow.


Somehow I doubt the OP would want to ride a $1300 (just the frame) bike on the road, be that custom built or an undented NJS.


***** - I am forgetting this is the BFSSFG subforum - of COURSE people here ride such bikes to go to starbucks!

I have heard and seen a few pictures of some Keirin racers' training bikes that are track frames equipped with brakes, shifters and derailiuers? Would it be a good idea to have a track frame equipped this way or should I just purchase a road bike? I really like the way my track frames feel so I thought this would be a good alternative as opposed to a road bike. Your thoughts please, pros and cons?

Thank you,
TDHK

Plenty of road frames have steep geometry--not touring frames mind you but they are out there.
I'm not sure why you would want actual track geometry for anything with brakes
that you would also presumably ride for long distances. If you must have a track
frame with road geometry I've seen track ends that have a derailleur hanger--
you could modify a track frame, but with cable guides needed and what not it seems
like a ridiculous pain compared to hunting down a used road frame with steep geometry.

Since this would be a custom project, you'd just have the frame builder make the rear spacing the same as normal road frames, which means you could end up with just about any gearing you wanted. I'd try to contact the guy behind this build > http://velospace.org/node/1753
Seems to be about what you're going for, right?

Also, older bikes use 120 spacing, I think I have a 120 6-speed hub on one of my (road) bikes.

But, yeah... you might be able to throw a three speed onto your track bike.

Plenty of road frames have steep geometry--not touring frames mind you but they are out there.
I'm not sure why you would want actual track geometry for anything with brakes
that you would also presumably ride for long distances. If you must have a track
frame with road geometry I've seen track ends that have a derailleur hanger--
you could modify a track frame, but with cable guides needed and what not it seems
like a ridiculous pain compared to hunting down a used road frame with steep geometry.

He doesn't need a hanger if he uses a gear hub. And cable guides are easily replaced with plastic ties. Not as nice, but so what.

He doesn't need a hanger if he uses a gear hub. And cable guides are easily replaced with plastic ties. Not as nice, but so what.

interesting work around--

supposedly Sturmey is going to make the ASC again

look for an old steel criterium bike.

I agree, sounds like you're in the market for a crit bike. If you need some suggestions to that (as far as I know Crit racers are still labeled road racing bikes) you should mosey on over to the Road forum and they will blow your freaking mind.

http://www.macmahone.com/blog/?p=58

Somehow I doubt the OP would want to ride a $1300 (just the frame) bike on the road, be that custom built or an undented NJS.

i was under the impression that this was what the OP was asking about. he doesn't expect to pull a geared frame with his favorite "track geometry" off the rack, did he?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2343/2234546789_81abd6a0b6_o.jpg

could he do a tri bike with horizontal drop-outs and internal cable routing so there were no braze ons. and just take all the running gear off when he wanted to use it as a fixed gear

There is another problem with that idea--if they were Kierin racers, on TRACK bikes, they would be fixed gear, right? Well, you couldn't have a deraileur on a fixed gear bike, any resistance would transfer all the slack to the top of the chainline, probably jam it either in the spokes or bb shell, and probably rip off the deraileur all together. So, it would have to have a freewheel, in which case you're talking about a crit. bike.

If you want tight geometry, just go for a crit bike. If you want a track bike, go for a track bike. Nothing wrong with having both! Only problem is that crit bikes are expensive--not many entry-level riders race criteriums.

road bike + ENO wheel

I seem to remember seeing frames like that Dave Russell refered to as "Club Racers"

I know of no track frame that would have a deraileur hanger. Your best bet is using a gear hub, like the Shimano Nexus, SRAM Spectro or the Rohloff Speedhub.


EDIT: geometry wise, I don't know if it would be a good idea or not. I am sure it can be done, though. Just use gear hubs.

gotta be this, or crit frame, or tri frame. the only problem is that the set up for one of those hubs (excluding rohloff) would cost as much as finding the right frame.

a tri bike would work out IF the geometry weren't all wonky like modern tri bikes (72 ht / 75-76 st) tend to be. i seem to recall that some of the early (read: steel) ones had crit geometry and campy 1010s in back.

that sort of bike with SLX or OX platinum tubes, lugged, with internal routing and steep angles would be my ideal 1x9 machine.

more TT than track but...

http://www.visitordesign.com/guchdone.jpg

supposedly Sturmey is going to make the ASC again

"Supposedly" being the keyword here. I've been hearing this for longer than... well, very fscking long. If I got a cent for every time someone mentions the ASC being produced again, I'd have enough money to actually buy one when it's available.

gotta be this, or crit frame, or tri frame. the only problem is that the set up for one of those hubs (excluding rohloff) would cost as much as finding the right frame.

I think you have it backwards: it's the Rohloff that costs an arm and a testicle. The Nexus 8 and especially the SRAM Spectro S-7 can be had for cheap.

Rather, the slight problem I envision now is the rear dropout spacing, though steel frames can be cold-set without any problem. We're talking only 5mm per side (120 to 130mm).

yeah, i meant that the rohloff would cost Waaay more than a new frame, not just as much as.

at least arm + testicle, it depends on what you're worth.

Gios. Basically track geometry for the road.

http://www.excelsports.com/image/Gios%20Compact%20Pro%20Frame%20without%20Fork.jpg

i've actually been trying to find an old crit in my size and price range (i.e. not a half g or more for the frame) for over a year with no luck.

and finding a road bike with track geometry in general is WAY harder than finding a track frame.

i've actually been trying to find an old crit in my size and price range (i.e. not a half g or more for the frame) for over a year with no luck.

and finding a road bike with track geometry in general is WAY harder than finding a track frame.

Except for the one I posted RIGHT BEFORE YOUR POST. Jesus, I am done with this place.

well i dont see a link in your post and im betting that that thing costs more than a couple hundred bucks.

and i think my post got deleted for calling you a ****bag.

Google is your friend. You do the work.

i just did and, suprise, that thing retails for 900 bucks no fork.

i still say that track geometry road bikes are harder to find than plain old track bikes

and i think yer being a dick just for the sake of it.

Your cheapest option is to use a very basic derailleur with an integrated hanger:
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=600083&subcategory=60001039&brand=&sku=20959&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20Rear%20Derailleurs
you will need to cold set the rear triangle (or whatever its called) and rout the shifter cable over the top tube (doable with clamp-on cable stops) and then rig up a couple of stops on the seat stays (pipe clamps?)

you probably will want to use only one ring on the front so you'll have to find a way to keep the chain from jumping off. You can use a guard in place of the outside ring and a jump stop on the inside. I've always liked this idea but never tried it.

Except for the one I posted RIGHT BEFORE YOUR POST. Jesus, I am done with this place.

"Half g" is colloquial for $500, did you know that? The OP ignored you because the lugged frame you posted is obviously outside the scope of the OP's budget for this project.

Do you understand?

"Half g" is colloquial for $500, did you know that? The OP ignored you because the lugged frame you posted is obviously outside the scope of the OP's budget for this project.

Do you understand?

If you are going to assume full MSRP for everything then there's no basis for discussion here. He's obviously doing a hack job and it will likely be sourced off Ebay or some used transaction anyway so you point is moot.

Do you understand?

hahaha

duder just sent me a pm saying "must suck to be poor"



please find me one of those anywhere for under 500 bucks and i'll concede to your point.

Its encouraging that there are people on here who would ride a road bike with track geometry. I am impressed with the discussion on this topic. After reading all the posts it looks like I have several options to consider. 1. a Crit bike, this is completely new to me. The concept sounds interesting and a good option. 2. Custom, not an option right now. 3. Track bike already set up, hanger and the etc...

I already have a track frame that I' m eyeing right now that is similar to the Dave Russel posted earlier. Its in my price range $600. I didn't want to spend too much on it considering I already have a few track frames, I dont think the wife would appreciate another bike in the house. I took a look at that Yamaguchi on the 1st page http://velospace.org/node/1753, wow! inspiration :) DAMM!!! that GIOS frame is ****ing amazing. What frame is that?

TDHK

gios road compact - virtually unchanged for 20+ years and the object of scorn amonst the working class, apparently

I have a crit bike, cannondale is a good start since their track frame and current caad9 is virtually the same geometry.

i still say that track geometry road bikes are harder to find than plain old track bikes




are you kidding me?

you're actually surprised that it's hard to find road bikes with geometry designed not for the road?

JHC, you people never heard of claw type RD's? Standard on pretty much every low end walmart bike in the world.

P.S When is somebody going to post that converted Yamaguchi?

For christs sake, you people never heard of claw type RD's? Standard on pretty much every low end walmart bike in the world.

shhhh.... don't derail the flaming ;)


yeah, you could just toss on of those on with a 120mm 5-6 or whatever speed road wheel and toss on a shifter, but that would be easy. You could probably do the whole setup with a (semi)decent derailleur/shifter/wheel for well under a hundred bones if you looked around.

http://www.moyercycles.com/xc.htm

Frame was posted earlier but here's a complete build: http://velospace.org/node/1753http://velospace.org/files/built-guch.jpg

gios road compact - virtually unchanged for 20+ years and the object of scorn amonst the working class, apparently

I have a crit bike, cannondale is a good start since their track frame and current caad9 is virtually the same geometry.

yeah cannondales current track frame is caad9 road geometry, not "track" geometry. ive worked at the cdale factory and currently own 3 of them so lets not start there.

the gios you tout is badass, but not for the "working class" unless working class means spending almost a grand on a bike frame.

what exactly are you trying to prove here?

My 1980's custom Serotta crit frame is steeper and shorter than my Panasonic track frame. More overlap, shorter chainstays, ect. In fact, it isn't all that comfortable for long road races or centuries.

Frame was posted earlier but here's a complete build: http://velospace.org/node/1753
I guess two pages in a thread are way too much for you to read, huh?

Since this would be a custom project, you'd just have the frame builder make the rear spacing the same as normal road frames, which means you could end up with just about any gearing you wanted. I'd try to contact the guy behind this build > http://velospace.org/node/1753
Seems to be about what you're going for, right?

I picked up an ACS derailleur adapter off eBay last summer designed for BMX bikes. Came w/a 16 & 17T freewheel. Uses a short cage derailleur.

how has MIN not been banned for being such a smug, worthless prick? people have been banned for less.

if you get lucky you can find road bikes with steep head angles and short rake to make the bike feel stable and want to lean more...those are 19mm tires on the motta...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2378/2209410950_d689fe26e4_o.jpg

i am/was so close to sending a letter to a certain frame builder to see about getting something like this built...but i just don't know...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2052/2088247665_fb33fa8dec_o.jpg