Yesterday afternoon, coming down the street I live on, a little girl about 8 or 9 years old was flying down a side street on her bike, cut across a neighbors property, over a dirt mound and ended up smashing into my car (I was going 20 miles an hour, speed limit is 25) and hitting my windshield. There was a truck and trailer parked near the intersection partially blocking both of our views. Thank goodness she wasn't killed, apparently just a broken collarbone. She wasn't wearing a helmet and someone told me that the brakes on her bike didn't work. The kids on my street do this all the time. When I am riding my bike down the street and see them with no helmets on I tell them to go put them on, they just give me a dirty look or back talk me. I guess because I'm not their parent, I'm not suppose to say anything to them. I just hope this opens up some of the parents eyes about bike safety. Maybe they will talk to their kids about the dangers of doing what they do and not wearing helmets. I also hope that the owner of the property will put up a low fence so the kids can't cut across his property anymore. Even the guy who owned the truck and trailer said he felt partially responsible because of where he parks it. This was an accident waiting to happen and I just happen to be the unlucky one it happened to. The little girl will recover but I'm not so sure about me. I know it wasn't my fault but that doesn't make me feel any better.
oldillini
09-27-03, 05:10 AM
Litespeed ...
It is sad that it may take an accident such as this for a young girl ... and hopefully her friends ... to wear a helmet. I wish her a quick recovery. I too hope her parents and the parents of her friends realize the dangers and teach the safety issues to their children.
Don't stop sharing the safety issues with kids when you see them. If only one listens it will be one that is safer because of you. I believe, that if we want cyclist to be thought of as responsible and rightful users of the roads, we must willing preach safe and responsible riding.
Time will help dull the feelings you may have. But the memory of the incident does remain and I am sure that you will continue to be an aware and defensive driver. Just that fact that I am a cyclist leads me to give a wide berth to any cyclist ... kid or adult, novice or experienced ... I am very cautious when near them.
Turbonium
09-27-03, 09:40 AM
that is sad. thank God that she is alive! she will probably start using a helmet now, but thats another thing that disapoints me, people saying that they don't need a helmet cuz they don't fall or crash, but when it happens urggg.
Jean Beetham Smith
09-27-03, 04:05 PM
Maybe the parents need to be required to take a bike safety course to spell out the law on helmets & kids, the reason for the law, and to stress the parent's responsibility that the kids learn safe biking habits, and that THEIR BIKES HAVE REGULAR SAFETY CHECKS. Maybe the police and a LBS could run a free bike safety check and road skills clinic once a year. When the helmet law for kids was first passed here in MA, our local police gave "tickets" to the kids they saw wearing a helmet. The ticket was good for a free ice-cream at the local ice cream shop. After all, kids that grow up with unsafe biking habits will become drivers with unsafe driving habits.
Chris L
09-27-03, 06:42 PM
I think Jean has hit the nail right on the head here. It's about time there was some appropriate education for children (and adults for that matter) on the importance of having a bike with functioning brakes. I know that not everyone has $3,000 to spend on a bike, but we're talking about something that is a fundamental safety component here. Would you drive a car that had no brakes?
Pete Clark
09-27-03, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by Litespeed
Yesterday afternoon...a little girl...was flying down a side street on her bike, cut across a neighbors property, over a dirt mound and ended up smashing into...my windshield.
When...see them with no helmets on I tell them to go put them on, they just give me a dirty look or back talk me. I guess because I'm not their parent, I'm not suppose to say anything to them.
There was a time when parents weren't afraid to correct neighbors' kids. Go ahead, they need someone to correct them. You've done your job--maybe some kid will listen.
You're right--it wasn't your fault.
Bikes are vehicles to be respected, not toys.
If more kids learned to respect bikes as vehicles instead of toys, maybe they'd also respect cars as vehicles, not toys, when they grow old enough to kill somebody.
(Ditto, Jean.)
DieselDan
09-28-03, 04:57 PM
Watch yourself. The child hit YOUR car, you may get sued. Especailly if the dirt mound was in your yard. It's a similar situation as of you had a swimming pool or a trampoline.
In South Carolina, it's illegal to operate a bicycle without a working rear brake.
Working in a bike rental shop that markets to the common causal rider, people hate helmets as a whole. Only real cyclists care about helmets, and most people see helmet laws as self-serving legisation that only really benifits the helmet manufacturers.
Litespeed
09-28-03, 05:25 PM
No the dirt mound was in someone else's yard. I have already talked to another neighbor about putting in a low fence or some kind of barrier so the kids can't use it any more. Some parents must have listened or at least were shook up about this incident (at least for the moment). Not one kid has been out on the street ALL weekend, this has never happened before. My husband has already talked to the mother of the little girl and her attitude was "accidents will happen". I figure it could have been avoided entirely if there had been some adult supervision at the time. I don't have children myself, but I figured that the parents of all the kids that play out there could take turns watching the kids while they are out there and correct them when they see them doing something wrong, like not wearing helmets. The mother said she was going to ground the girl for not wearing her helmet. She also said she has grounded her before for not wearing it--apparently that didn't make an impression. Is it really that hard to make your child come see you before she goes out to play in the street and show you that she is wearing her helmet.
When I was talking to the police, one of the first questions they ask me was if the girl was wearing a helmet, maybe the parents will get a citation for her not wearing it, it is illegal for anyone under the age of 18 not to wear a bike helmet in California. I will get the police report in about 2 weeks, I will be interested to see how they write it up.
Rich Clark
09-28-03, 06:10 PM
What are the statistics on how helmets reduce the rate of collarbone injuries?
I don't mean to be callous, but nothing in the described accident would have been changed by the child wearing a helmet.
I'm not saying she shouldn't have been. I'm just sick unto death of how so much discussion of "bike safety" focuses on helmets, when the real cause of almost all bike accidents among children is ignorance and lack of parental training.
RichC
Litespeed
09-28-03, 06:46 PM
Everthing you say in very true, the helmet probably would not have made a difference about breaking her collarbone, the same is very true for Christopher Reeves, the helmet would not have prevented his spinecord injury. Maybe when a parent and child decide to buy a bike they should be required to have a safely class on how to ride safely, with the necessary equipment and how to maintain it. Still, you never know when a child is going to fall off a bike and hit their head. She just as easily could have bounced off the car and in falling down hit her head. I know when I was riding my first mountain bike about 7 years ago, I was flying down the street as fast as I could, decided at the last minute to get up onto the sidewalk. Well there was a slight 1/2 inch difference between the street and the entrance to a driveway, I hit it wrong and went sailing. If it had not been for my helmet and mostly my visor, I would have had major injuries to my face (not that it looks that good now). As it was I only hit my chin. My hand, shoulder and knee were scraped up pretty badly also. Parents watch their kids when they take them to the park, why not on their own street? I have seen many a kid wearing a helmet but it isn't buckled, the kid may as well not be wearing the helmet. The parents need to become more aware of what kind of activities their kids are engaged in. Riding a bike isn't just pedaling around, these kids are jumping their bikes, racing up and down, around blind corners. Kids do STUPID things, we all did as kids, but parents need to wise up and it shouldn't take something like this to bring it about. I think parents are to consumed with themselves now adays, they want the kids out of their hair and as long as the kid isn't bugging them the parents are happy. If the world keeps changing like this, it won't be for the better of kids.
Allister
09-28-03, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by Rich Clark
What are the statistics on how helmets reduce the rate of collarbone injuries?
Boy, you said it! It's funny how after presumably reading the story, everyone started bleating about helmets, and yet only one or two mention anything about the importance of functioning brakes, not that functioning brakes would have necessarily prevented this collision. If lack of brakes proves to be a factor, shouldn't the parents be cited for allowing their child to ride an unsafe bicycle?
As for the other factor. Rather than asking some poor guy to spend money building a fence, if you don't want them jumping off the dirt mound, why not get a shovel and simply remove the dirt mound?
Litespeed
09-29-03, 07:02 AM
The dirt mound is actually the corner of the guys yard. There is no way of removing where the kids go up and over it because the entire yard is a big slope, only a fence or barrier can prevent them from using it. There is also a telephone pole that sits right near the corner where the kids cut across, I'm surprised one of them hasn't slammed into that yet from coming down off the hill. I was thinking about asking the local police to come out and have a bike safety class for all the kids in the neighborhood but I'm afraid the parents would take it the wrong way, any suggestions?
DieselDan
09-29-03, 05:01 PM
Just to be safe, I'd put up my own fence.
cwodave
09-30-03, 08:45 AM
I've read this thread and one thing comes to mind: we've forgotten what its like to be a kid.
Dirt mounds were made for kids on bikes, my friends and I would go out of our way to find the best ones. One that was at the bottom of a hill is just that much better.
When I got bikes for my kids the first thing we did was go riding together. I explained the boundries, we talked about traffic, we practiced intersections, I showed them how to land a jump, we practiced curbs, we talked about driveways, etc etc.
As a parent we have a responsibility to teach our or children and to tell them what we expect of them. The young lady that hit your car made a decision to ride over the mound because she didn't think about the consequences. She broke a family rule by neglecting to wear a helmet and should be be punished, but more importantly she (and apparently the other kids in the neighborhood) needs to understand that there are boundries and rules for riding and that there are consequences for breaking them.
I would imagine the word about the mound is out among the kids now and it will probably not be an issue again, but if the kids don't understand the principles behind it they'll just use a different mound.
I think the girls parents need to be grounded more than the girl does.
So there.
Dave
Litespeed
10-18-03, 06:08 AM
Heard from a neighbor that the guy who owned the truck and trailer was cited for where he parked. I still haven't received the police report back yet and my insurance company is still working on the claim. The little girl is still in a sling but outside with her friends. Not as many kids riding their bikes up and down the street like there use to be. Now I am driving up to the next street and back tracking to get to my house so I don't even have to go by the area where the kids play--better safe then sorry, I just got my car out of the shop on Monday, over $2100 worth of damage.
wedge99
10-18-03, 09:01 PM
Holy Smokes.......as a kid I never once wore a helmet, took a safety class, or had my parents watching over my every move! You would think they must not have cared too much for me, but your wrong. They taught me something much more valuable than wearing the right equipment or not doing fun stuff. They demonstrated how to take resposibility for your own actions!
Dave your right on......too bad more parents don't teach their children the proper way. That will take care of 99.9% of the bad stuff and the helmet can catch the .1%.
Litespeed.....hope everything turns out for the better in your neighborhood. :)
Beau
closetbiker
10-19-03, 06:26 AM
What are the statistics on how helmets reduce the rate of collarbone injuries?
I don't mean to be callous, but nothing in the described accident would have been changed by the child wearing a helmet.
RichC
Boy, I'm sure glad you said that!
No helmet mentioned 12 times, no brakes mentioned once.
Maybe if the behaivior was more appropriate, or the brakes worked, there would have been no problem.
late
10-19-03, 07:54 AM
God,
we had these tall houses right next to each other when I was a kid. I remember one day I was blasting down my driveway, and wound up in the street. I then wouund up under a Chrysler getting my first look at the underside of a 383 V8. I was so lucky that guy had good reflexes and decent brakes. Kids will be kids. But we can limit the damge they suffer. One way to do that is with helmets. They work.
I think another way is to find some informational pamphlet about bicycling safely, and handing it around to the parents. Sounds like there is suddenly an audience for that information.
mike
10-19-03, 03:25 PM
Not one kid has been out on the street ALL weekend, this has never happened before.
Kids not playing and not riding their bikes doesn't sound like a good outcome either :(
Allister
10-19-03, 04:38 PM
Kids will be kids. But we can limit the damge they suffer. One way to do that is with helmets. They work.
In certain situations. This wasn't one of them. Neither will they help when you go under a car. The only thing that'll help then, as you found out, is luck.
I think another way is to find some informational pamphlet about bicycling safely, and handing it around to the parents. Sounds like there is suddenly an audience for that information.
There always has been. But the trend is to close the gate after the horse has already bolted. Foresight is a forgotten skill.
Litespeed
10-19-03, 04:57 PM
Just wanted everyone to see how close this little girl came to coming thru my windshield. So far the kids seem to be more careful on the street, haven't seen as many though. The little girl will be back to her usual self shortly I'm sure, but hopefully a little wiser. I've never done an attachment before.
late
10-19-03, 06:15 PM
Allister,
we know helmets work, We know it from smashing them; and we have been able to tease it out of accident data. Parents can learn, they won't keep the kids in forever. And this is clearly one of those rare moments when you can get their attention.
Allister
10-19-03, 08:05 PM
Allister,
we know helmets work, We know it from smashing them; and we have been able to tease it out of accident data.
Don't try and turn this into another tedious helmet debate. I didn't say they don't work, but it's fairly obvious they won't save you from a broken collarbone, or a crushed lung, or a smashed verterbrae, or a broken leg, or a punctured liver etc. etc. etc. The key to knowing how useful a helmet is, is knowing it's limitations.
Parents can learn, they won't keep the kids in forever. And this is clearly one of those rare moments when you can get their attention.
Indeed. It's a shame someone has to get hurt before anyone becomes interested in safety is all I'm saying.
Chris L
10-19-03, 09:07 PM
Allister,
we know helmets work, We know it from smashing them; and we have been able to tease it out of accident data.
We also know that properly adjusted brakes work, too. Unfortunately with all the media focus on "helmets" everytime cycling is discussed, this is all too often forgotten.
Parents can learn, they won't keep the kids in forever. And this is clearly one of those rare moments when you can get their attention.
Don't bet on it. Many parents will try to do just that, even if it means having to shell out a few bucks to buy their kids some video games.
closetbiker
10-19-03, 09:53 PM
We also know that properly adjusted brakes work, too. Unfortunately with all the media focus on "helmets" everytime cycling is discussed, this is all too often forgotten.
...and this is a big problem. I saw 12 helmet comments when we should be discussing how best to prevent the accident in the first place. Time spent on a problem should be on the most productive ways to do things right. Helmets have a place, but other points are far more helpful.
khuon
10-19-03, 10:35 PM
We also know that properly adjusted brakes work, too. Unfortunately with all the media focus on "helmets" everytime cycling is discussed, this is all too often forgotten.
Exactly and this is one of the reasons I try to always steer people away from dept. store bikes. Forget all the other shortcomings about dept. store bikes. They're annoying at best when compared to the shoddy braking systems they come with. It's better to be able to not go fast than to not stop fast. Yes, I know any bike has the potential for improperly adjusted brakes but it's been my experience that dept. store bikes are more likely to not only start off with bad braking but remain that way. I recall my days of Huffy ownership where the brakes were week and the rims were stamped steel. Although I'm a big advocate of wearing helmets, I personally would rather see unhelmetted riders on bikes with working brakes than helmetted riders on cheap bikes with worthless brakes.
lotek
10-20-03, 06:23 AM
Thank you CWODAVE! and anyone else who remembered
what it is like to be a kid.
I taught my kids bike safety, to wear a helmet, and
had to let em go, knowing they would do stupid daring
things (same things I did as a kid).
Its sad that what this inicident did is limit the amount
of bike riding the kids are doing, and forced Litespeed to
take an alternate route home.
Marty
dirtbikedude
10-20-03, 07:22 AM
I usually do not write a response in these threads but I will here.
Ok, the helmet issue has been stated, the brakes to a lesser degree (unfortunatly, but who is to say she would have used them anyways?) and "kids will be kids" also.
Now the part of the parents teaching their kids proper bicycle safety is the one I see as the culprit(sp?).
As kids, our parents educated us on bicycle safety , so when we attempted stunts and such on public roads we always had a lookout that would watch for traffic.
Yeah, we still did all the stupid stunts and such but would take precautions that the only injuries that occured only involved the individual rider/s that were attempting the stunt.
Between the ages of 4 and 16, when I road every where, I never once saw or heard of any of the neighborhood kids geting hit by a car or hitting a car. I contribute that to the education we got from our parents.