Touring - 200 miles per day?

My first tour was a total of 3500-4000 miles. I averaged, at most, sixty miles per day on that tour, with a lot of rest days and sightseeing. But I did several long days on that tour, and I found that I was quite capable of knocking off heavily loaded centuries, when I wanted to.

On my second tour, I decided that I would up the mileage ante, and I was able to average around 110 miles per day on mostly flat terrain for ten days.

On another tour, I pushed the average up to 135 miles per day over twelve days, and I knocked off 194 miles on the final day. On that tour I was really feeling mileage, and I often had to dig deep to find the motivation to keep pushing in the middle stages of the tour.

This summer I want to take another big leap in my daily touring mileage. I want to do a 2800 mile round trip. I want to sandwich two weeks of backpacking between two weeks of all out, ultradistance touring.

This seems like a pretty extreme jump in mileage, but I don't think it's unreasonable to think that I could do it. I've never really trained all that hard for a tour before. I think if I really push my weekly average mileage up to six or seven hundred miles for a couple of months before the tour, I can get my body to a point where it can handle that kind of punishment.

So I want to know if anyone has ever done a fully loaded tour with daily averages of 200 miles. If so, how did they prepare? And what kind of advice can they offer?

Are you sure that you would call such a ride a "tour"? I'd head over to the long distance cycling forum and ask the Randonneurs for advice.

Speedo

Considering that I will be traveling fully loaded, I thought people that read the touring forum might have specific suggestions that I wouldn't get in the long distance forum.

How lightly loaded? I've crewed RAAM and can tell you that it's done with full support and a huge proportion of entrants can't hold the pace. If you can ride a fully loaded touring bike 200 miles a day, you'll be among the 1% of the 1% of the 1% of all the riders on the planet.

If you are talking using full panniers and holding an AVG pace of 16 MPH, for example, and that's bloody fast for a touring load, you're looking at 12.5 hours in the saddle at a really tough pace for that long on an unladen race bike and this doesn't allow for terrain, either. I've done 167 miles at that pace and it's a killer...and I was riding superlight with a support van myself. :eek:

EDIT: You'll have to hold that pace for 14 days straight, as well. You'll either kill yourself or wind up in hospital, IMHO.

Pros won't do that, nuff said!
but go for it and tell us how you made out.

EDIT: You'll have to hold that pace for 14 days straight, as well. You'll either kill yourself or wind up in hospital, IMHO.

Well it's an out and back trip, 1400 miles each way. And I'd have two weeks off the bike in the middle. So I'd only have to hold that pace for seven days in each direction.

I would be carrying a fairly heavy load. I'm thinking fifty pounds minimum.

If I average 12 mph, that would be 17 hours of biking per day. That wouldn't leave a lot of time for sleep, granted. But 12 mph isn't a very difficult pace.

Would it still be fun?
What happens if you have a strong headwind one or two or more of those days? Or several days of rain?
Is the route flat all the way? Or do you get into hillier country before the end?
Would that schedule have you riding at nights on unfamiliar roads with no place to recharge a light?
Can you work the stops so you do exactly 200 miles a day or will it vary more or less?
Will you still be able to hike when you get there?
Just some thoughts. Good luck.

Will it be fun? Sure, I think so. I'm as interested in pushing myself to my limits as I am in sightseeing.

I'm not too worried about rain. I've done some pretty long days in rainy conditions while touring before. Serious downpours would be a problem, but run of the mill soggy weather is something that I feel that I can deal with.

The terrain would be mostly flat, but I'll be ending up at the rocky mountains, so the last day could get pretty bumpy.

Headwinds, well that's another issue. The ride out will be pretty much due west, so headwinds could be problematic, if I'm not lucky.

I'll be running my lights on a dynohub, so at least charging batteries won't be a problem. I don't mind riding at night on unfamiliar roads, as long as I have a decent map to guide me.

Finding camping locations spaced out conveniently would be a serious issue. Either I'll have to do some serious logistical planning beforehand, or I'll have to do rides in chunks of more than 24 hours to ensure that I'll be stopping when there is plenty of light to find camping locations.

Well, I'll tell you a little story about a friend of mine. Back in 2002, my friend flew from England to Vancouver and cycled to Kamloops BC (about 500 kms, I believe). He then rode the Rocky Mountain 1200 ... a 1200 km randonnee. (That's where I met him). Starting the day after the RM1200, he rode across North America, from Kamloops to Boston. It took him 3 weeks to cover that distance. When he arrived in Boston, he rode the Boston-Montreal-Boston ... another 1200 km randonnee. And then he flew back home to England.

Approx. 8000 kms in 5 weeks.

Just to add to the challenge, he rode both randonnees on a fixed gear, and flipped the hub to do the rest of the riding on a single speed.

Both Randonnees involved cycling more than 200 miles a day ... and several of the days during his cross-country tour also involved 200 mile days.

Now ... he travelled extremely lightly. He had a handlebar bag and a Carradice Nelson Longflap ... no panniers. He's also a strong and fast cyclist, who has no issues with lying down in the ditch in a bivy to catch a few hours of sleep before continuing.

Is it possible to cover 1400 miles in 7 days? Yep. After all, Randonneurs cover a little over half that in 3.5 days on our 1200K randonnees.

If you are serious about doing it, I would STRONGLY recommend hooking up with your local Randonneuring organization and doing a Super Randonneur series (at least) as a training ride.

I would also strongly recommend considering lightening your load.

Furthermore ....

Have a look at my Links page: http://www.machka.net/links.htm There are lots of links on that page about long distance cycling.

Especially have a read over the Ultra-Marathon Cycling Association site: http://www.ultracycling.com/ It contains lots of articles about training for ultra-distance events.

Well at least someone thinks it's possible.

I don't know if I can lighten my load much. I've been touring without a stove or cooking gear for my last couple of tours, and I haven't missed warm meals all that much. But I'm pretty much down to the bare minimum as I see it. I need to carry a complete tire repair kit for my bike and camping gear, including my hiking boots. I'll skip the cassette puller and other bike repair items. I'm thinking I might buy a bivy sack, which would probably weigh about half of what my one man tent weighs...

I've come light years beyond where I was at on my first tour, in terms of traveling light. I haven't gotten to the point that I'm cutting the handle off my toothbrush, but that might be in the cards this time. I might be overestimating my projected load at fifty pounds, but I can't imagine going with less than thirty and still being able to camp above 10,000 feet when I reach my destination.

On the other hand 12.5 MPH for 16 hours should handle it nicely. Zikes!! Really doing it would require some serious luck, not to get my usual 50% headwinds and rain, and the terrain would need to be pretty perfect. I average about 10 MPH, over about 8 hours of riding. But it takes something like 10-12 hours to get that in. It feels like I never get off the bike, but a stop here and a stop there for food, provisions... On the other hand I'm 48, one legged, and not very tough, so I wouldn't say it couldn't be done.

The biggest thing from the touring forum perspective would be to really manage the weight of everything, and the comfort. Just because it's a "loaded" tour does not mean a lot of stuff or weight. This is cut the toothbrush in half time. But comfortable is essential. Timing and climate would need to be carefully studied so that one could have extreme lightweight and not get gnawed every night. Stevenson Warmlite time. Tarp tent. Read up on something like Reinhold Messner on 8000 meter peaks. Read Ray Jardine.

It might be cool to have a really fast bike, but I would still want the long wheel base, and I would want super comfort on the bike, super efficiency. Sorta thing we ought to have to keep up with the tech level in Triathelon, or MTBs. Aero would have to be taken to the extreme. Bags as fairing, maybe a Zipper fairing. Aero wheels. The problem with going fast is that to do 200 miles in the space of 135, let's take the 16 hour period, requires goingan average 12.5 vs. average 8.4. That is 2.2 times the wind resistance, and at 12.5 MPH, you are about 50% of your effort just moving the wind (my best estimate, I welcome others). So some huge proportion of your increased effort, about 33% I would guess, is being channelled into making a hole. So an aero strategy would help.

I think this is an interesting idea, at whatever level it could reach. Vastly increasing the performance envelope, without achieving it in ways so weird it just seems like every day racing, rather than a contribution to touring technology. Or at least that is the aspect that appeals to me.

can it be done?

realistically, if your'e camping out (hence fully loaded) i'd say your chance are probably slim. weather and headwinds aside, i'd say what will most likely get you would be ankle and knee injuries. the pain will be there for just about sure, and if you continue to push it too far, it can become debilitating.
i had it happen when i once sandwiched a 212 after a couple of 120 or so mile days. i continued another couple of 120+ days, ignoring the warning signs, until waking up the next morning pretty much unable to use my right leg, and had to stop for 3 days for the swelling to go down. this was when i was 18, so it's not just an issue of older joints acting up.

but, should it be done?

by all means, i think you should give it a shot. just use a little common sense as far as punishing your body goes. and let us know how it works out.

I don't travel with a stove and cooking gear either, but my load, excluding the weight of my bicycle, comes in at 35 to 40 lbs.

Why hiking boots??? I'd drop those from the list for a start!

All you really need are a few tools, a few clothing items items, a few very basic toiletry and medical items, and some sleeping items.

I know I've got a million things on my packing list (on my website), but if you're doing something like this, where comfort and luxury aren't your goal, you don't need half of what I've got on there.

If you are planning to carry your hiking gear (for the hiking portion of your adventure) with you on the bicycle, I'd think about other options ... like mailing your hiking gear to a certain city so it will be there when you get there.

i had it happen when i once sandwiched a 212 after a couple of 120 or so mile days. i continued another couple of 120+ days, ignoring the warning signs, until waking up the next morning pretty much unable to use my right leg, and had to stop for 3 days for the swelling to go down. this was when i was 18, so it's not just an issue of older joints acting up.



That sounds like a bicycle fit issue. That's less than 700 miles over a 5 day period. Thousands of Randonneurs do more than that in less time and we're usually fine.

But I agree that if issues like that come up, it's not a bad idea to back off a bit. Hopefully, if brotherdan is going to do this, he will be aware of the Amtrak and Greyhound stops and schedules.

My conception is that I want to do this trip Goran Kropp style. He biked from Stockholm to Nepal with over 200 pounds of climbing gear. His original plan was to climb Everest completely self contained, using only gear and food that he brought with him at the start of his trip. He did summit Everest using only the gear that he started with, but he ended up supplementing his original food stock with food from other Everest expeditions.

So I don't want to send any gear ahead, even though it might make things easier. If I'm going to need something when I reach the rockies, I want to have it with me when I set out. I'd rather spend an extra day on the bike and go slower overall than send something by post to lighten my load.

I've been thinking about ditching my racks and going with a bob trailer, to improve aerodynamics. I'll be bringing a hiking pack anyway, and I was having trouble visualizing how I was going to haul it on my rear rack. I could just strap the hiking pack to a bob trailer and keep everything inside of it.

I'm inclined to say ... give it a go. All you are doing is lifting the performance parameters to a new level. Whether that lift is too ambitious is difficult for us to say from what you have posted in this and the LD threads, but you seem to display the sort of determination and thought about what is required to succeed.

Conditioning of your body and mind will be keys. Along with the already discussed comfort factor on the bike. Try to find a thread on here about lightweight touring not all that long ago. There is one poster whose bike looks almost naked when fully loaded for touring. I am ashamed to say I can't remember who it is, but the pictures left a good impression. The final uncontrollable, however, will be what happens with the weather.

I've done two days of 320km-plus riding (going to the start, then returning on the route of a fleche). I don't know that I could sustain that for many more days than that, but it did require riding through the night and snagging only four or five hours of sleep on the roadside each night.

Well, there's only really one way to know for sure if it's possible for you. While it's all very good (and useful) to ask other people whether it's do-able (or has been done), it comes down to yourself, and your capabilities, not those of others.

On a different subject, I've been taking a hiking backpack with me through New Zealand on the rear rack. It's not the biggest, baddest, expedition-style pack, it's still good for backpacking and fits everything you need for a short trip off the bike. It's just laid over the rear panniers and rack, perpendicular to the frame. Tent, sleeping bag, and short thermarest go inside the bag, when usually they'd just be strapped to the top of the rack. Then, bungee that thing up good (I use a bungee net as per someone's great advice here), and you're ready to roll (slowly). As you might imagine, there's a fair bit of wind resistance which comes with it--or it acts as a sail.

Good luck, and have fun (even if all you do is think about it and mock-plan it--that's one of the best parts of the touring experience in my opinion)!

I've been thinking about ditching my racks and going with a bob trailer, to improve aerodynamics. I'll be bringing a hiking pack anyway, and I was having trouble visualizing how I was going to haul it on my rear rack. I could just strap the hiking pack to a bob trailer and keep everything inside of it.

<thread hijack >

I've seen it posted here and elsewhere repeatedly that a BOB is more aerodynamic than panniers. Is it really? Does anyone have win tunnel tests or power meter tests with a 50lb loaded bob v 50 lb loaded panniers to prove this point?

The reason why I'm asking is this is by taking a look at a picture of a loaded BOB (http://www.abckids.dk/BOB%20yak%20cykeltrailer,%20bike%20trailer.htm) (bottom right corner), from head on, you'll notice that the trailer and bag sit at the narrowest portion of the cyclist's body, from the knees down, and below the hubs of the bike.

However, if you look at this bike (http://www.pbase.com/canyonlands/image/88572092), you'll notice that the rear panniers sit above the rear hub, the trunk bag and handlebar bag are slightly below
the rider's hips, and the front panniers are at knee level. It may be in a strong headwind, that panniers/handlebar bag/trunk bag might be more aerodynamic than a BOB, and not less. I don't think there is enough evidence to justify the claim that bob's are aerodynamic.

</thread hijack>

Don't get me wrong, it's theoretically possible. If you really want to try this on for size, all I can say is go for it. If you successfully pull it off, one thing I'll say.....

You'd never have to buy your own beer again in exchange for that story ;) At least not in my presence :D


Well at least someone thinks it's possible.

I don't know if I can lighten my load much. I've been touring without a stove or cooking gear for my last couple of tours, and I haven't missed warm meals all that much. But I'm pretty much down to the bare minimum as I see it. I need to carry a complete tire repair kit for my bike and camping gear, including my hiking boots. I'll skip the cassette puller and other bike repair items. I'm thinking I might buy a bivy sack, which would probably weigh about half of what my one man tent weighs...

I've come light years beyond where I was at on my first tour, in terms of traveling light. I haven't gotten to the point that I'm cutting the handle off my toothbrush, but that might be in the cards this time. I might be overestimating my projected load at fifty pounds, but I can't imagine going with less than thirty and still being able to camp above 10,000 feet when I reach my destination.

Go for it Dan, it sounds quite doable.
Use the naysayers cynicism as motivation.

I say go for it.

I would suggest that you consider mailing your hiking stuff ahead and back home. If you don't have a friend or relative there send it to yourself care of general delivery. That might allow you to lighten the load a good bit and would make the trip a bit easier.

Hmmm, good point.

The main reason that I was thinking about a bob is that I need to find some way to carry a big hiking pack. The aerodynamics were only part of my equation. But a bob probably weighs twice as much as a couple of racks. So even if the aerodynamics are similar, or even slightly better with a bob, it seems that the weight penalty might be an insurmountable issue. If I can figure out how to mount my pack on the rear rack so that it isn't sticking out on both sides, maybe it would be a better way to go.

I figured I could mount the pack perpendicularly, but my pack is pretty big, so it would stick out a lot. I really want to try to mount it inline with my body. I have a Jandd expedition rear rack, which is pretty long, but it would still only support about half of the length of the pack. I'll look into the bungee net idea though. That would probably make loading the bike much easier when you're trying to tie down something like a hiking pack, with all kinds of loose straps and whatnot.

Bob is heavy, you can easily make your racks + panniers weigh less than Bob. Don't forget you need spare tubes for him too. And make sure the use the same kind of valve as your bike tubes.

Since you should be going ultralight on everything, you can probably just fold up your ultralight backpack and stick it on top of your rack. Bivy sack sounds like a good idea, too, since you won't be spending a lot of time hanging out in your tent. Get one with a pole over your face, they are less claustrophobic.

I think the prevailing winds in the prairie states are south, not west. When I eastbounded (SD, MN, WI), I had quite a bit of headwind, quite a bit of sidewind, and a little tailwind.

Sounds really hard. Can you leave yourself some flexibility with timing, so if your mileage goal turns out to be unattainable (to much to do, to much to enjoy, health issues, weather, whatever) you can still do your trip and your backpacking, and not have to just bail?

Have fun, and don't forget to post a trip report!

The more I think about it, the more I think the bob trailer would be a bad idea. I just started to google bob trailers to look at the weight issue, and now that I see that they weigh seventeen pounds, I think I'll avoid that option.

I think I'll have several extra days if the mileage issue turns out to be unrealistic. I'm meeting a friend for the backpacking portion of the trip, and he was talking about an eight day hiking trip. I hope to get a month off of work. If I get thirty days off work and I plan for eight days of backpacking in the middle, that would leave me with eight extra days. I would like to spend the extra days doing solo backpacking in the wilderness, but I could spend them on the bike if I had to.

Lightening your overall touring load will increase the odds of success. My 18 pound equipment load for the Divide Ride caused many skeptical reactions from other riders. I was warm dry and comfortable in all weather and trail conditions. With some careful research and planning you can shrink the fifty pound load that you mentioned.

I carried a 4oz/3000cu inch pack for hiking. All of my overnight camping equipment fit nicely when I took hikes along the way. My Tarptent weighed 1# 4oz yet kept me dry and bug free and made a small package. My compact down quilt weighed 1# 4oz as well and kept me warm and took up little space. Careful clothing selection for layering will handle all weather conditions in comfort. My tool kit and spares was 2#. Enough to maintain and repair the bike but not enough to replace everything if broken or seriously damaged.

Consider other options instead of the traditional four panniers. I only used two front ones and a dry bag stuffer on the top of the rear rack. I have come to believe that the lighter load causes fewer wheel problems due to reduced wheel stress.
A rackless option is available here: http://www.carouseldesignworks.com/CDWpage1.html

Good luck on this venture. My preference is a slower pace smelling all of the roses!

Lightening your overall touring load will increase the odds of success. My 18 pound equipment load for the Divide Ride caused many skeptical reactions from other riders. I was warm dry and comfortable in all weather and trail conditions. With some careful research and planning you can shrink the fifty pound load that you mentioned.



I completely agree. My base load is about 20lbs and it includes a Tarptent Contrail and a down quilt. I could go lighter if I left out some of my of bike clothing. I would never attempt to do the speeds the OP is suggesting, but I have found that reducing my touring load has made me enjoy the riding part a lot more. I'm a big proponent of the saddlebag in touring and if the OP is serious about their mileage they should look at alternative packing and equipment strategies.

The Great Divide Race runs within 50 miles of the Continental Divide for 2490 miles along the spine of the Rocky Mountains and is totally unsupported. In 2007 it was won with a time of 15 days, 4 hours, and 18 minutes. That's an average of 164 miles/day. Here is an interview with the winner, Jay Petervary, which might provide some insight into what it takes to sustain this kind of performance.
http://omgbikes.blogspot.com/2007/10/dirt-rag-tv-interview-with-jay.html
Of course, bicycling on roads is surely easier that the Great Divide route so you will have an advantage there but you will need to carry slightly more equipment for the mountaineering part of your trip.

I think I remember reading that Petervary's total bike and gear weight was in the mid 30 pound range with gear and food (he could replenish en route) about 10 pounds or so...He had a customized bike and customized bags and was extremely experienced and ready for this race.

I think the key for you would to be to try to go very light. I have done a lot of "alpine style" mountaineering and think you should be able to come in with a safe amount of biking/mountaineering load comfortably below 20 pounds even including pack, a stove and some mountaineering equipment (like ice axe) but not necessarily including food. You mentioned getting a bivy bag and that sounds like the right thing...It will be lighter than any serious mountaineering tent (a 3 season tent will just be dangerous if you are going to be above tree line) and a good but expensive bivy will be able to withstand almost anything including bugs ('cept an avalanche).

You might try to carry this in your mountaineering pack strapped to a rear rack thus saving the (significant) weight of panniers. I have done this on a motor cycle but not a bicycle (yet).

I like your idea and reading some of the more recent posts (appearing as I am writing this) you have sensible slack and bail-out options available to you.

Good luck.

This is way out of my experience but can I suggest the following:
1. Look up Kent Petersen (does long-distance ultralight rides on a fixed gear)
2. Look up the Crane brothers' Journey to the Centre of the Earth.

3. Look up ultralight hiking. 50 Lb = 25kg !?!! How can you not decrease that? Are you carrying 10 days worth of food as well as your gear? Maybe ditch the hiking boots for lighter shoes (they only need to last for 2 wks hiking + 2 wks cycling). Look at other camp options. Get an ultralight stove and carry light, dehydrated food. I admire your strength and endurance, but 25kg is just nuts. With respect :)

4. Look up ultralight bikepacking / ultralight cycle touring / whatever.

5. Ultracycling association website for training plans. Sounds like you are very fit but even so most advise only increasing weekly distances by 10% each week.

Oops, Arctos and the Smokester already posted most of what I had to say.

+1 Tarptent for reasonable shelter at ~750g total weight. You could go lighter with a tarp alone, but if you get a bivvy bag you'll probably want a tarp as well, so the weight will be similar and the tarptent will be more comfortable. Not sure about storm performance, I don't like the idea of sitting out a blizzard in any of these.

Down bag could weigh similar if you are slim (look up Rab, Marmot, Feathered Friends for some light bags). A Big Agnes insulated air core matress looks to be a good mix of weight and comfort. Bubble wrap over a space blanket could be used to bring the weight right down, and should last a few weeks.

Your Jandd backpack isn't light. If you go frameless you can get down to a pound or less (eg. Golite brand). With a frame, up this to 600-800g but you might need to make it yourself.

Say 4000-5000 calories/day - you're looking at at least a kilo of food a day. Consider mailing ahead, or buying locally.

Budget two bike shorts and two pairs socks but only one complete set of clothing otherwise. Eg. long thermal base layers, fibrepile + pertex jacket, eVent or Montane-brand PU coated nylon rain gear, gloves and beanie, get in the sleeping bag when it gets too cold for all of this. I make this as about 2kg for clothing. I admit the safety margin is nil for alpine conditions, you won't be warm enough if you have a fall and can't set up your tent and bag.

If you are really at 10,000 feet for a week then an alcohol stove won't cut it. This is a shame because they weigh 0.5 - 2 ounces. Even with the heavier fuel (alcohol vs. petrol) you're ahead until about the 2 week mark. However in the mountains you need something that will reliably cook at altitude and melt snow, so a petrol stove is best. At 1.5kg for stove + fuel you're still ahead on weight if you carry stove + dehydrated food, rather than fresh food you can eat raw.

Shoes - Reebok, Rockport, New Balance, Brooks and many others make decent walking shoes. Make sure the sole is Vibram or something else that will still grip in the wet. You'll save about a kilo compared to taking hiking boots. The other option is trail running shoes, which are lighter but less durable. Boots are better for mud and for scree slopes so I guess it depends on what conditions you expect. I think walking conditions will be more important than bike-specific shoes. Please don't tell me you were planning to take both hiking boots and bike shoes.

Can you modify your rack so the pack will sit on it lengthways? Try to find some way to avoid panniers if you are taking a pack anyway.

Sounds like an awesome trip, good luck!

Consider mailing ahead, or buying locally.
I figured that was a given. If not by all means don't carry more food than you have to. Definitely buy along the way!

You should try this trip on a bent, speeds will be greater all round. Comfort would be better, and you might be able to carry more.

Sorry to express this opinion-
IMO, touring is about the TOUR;
taking time to feel and interact with what you are riding by.
I think 320 km per day is crazy.

If I get the bivy, I'm going with that alone. Otherwise I'll just take my one man mountain hardware tent. The combination of the bivy and a tarp would be close to the weight of my tent, so I don't see any reason to go with the combo.

I have a big agnes air core mattress, which I like a lot. I usually go without a mattress at all when strictly touring by bike, but I like to have a mattress for camping at altitude. I don't know if I'll bring one along this summer or not. That pound of weight saving could be substantial.

I have a synthetic bag, which is a weight issue. It's only rated to 40 degrees F, so it's about as light as you can go with synthetics, but it's still a lot more than an equivalent down bag. I'll look for some deals on mountaineering websites in the next few months to see if I can get a good deal on something lighter.

I'll probably buy all of my food locally, and resupply as I go. I'll carry enough food for a couple of days while on the bike, and I'll make a big purchase right before I get into the wilderness.

As for clothes, I figure I'll carry a lightweight pair of rain pants, a light rain jacket, two pair of bike shorts and two t-shirts, three pairs of socks (one of which will be thick wool hiking socks), a pair of fleece pants and a fleece sweatshirt, as well as a pair of gaiters for off trail bushwhacking.

I don't know if I'll be carrying a stove. I have an MSR Dragonfly, but I think I can save a lot of weight by going without any cooking gear at all and subsisting primarily on dry goods like granola, trail mix and energy bars, supplemented with fresh fruit and cheese.

I'm not willing to go without some tough hiking boots. Last summer I did a couple of weeks of backpacking with a lot of off trail travel. I only brought trail running shoes, and my feet were in agony for most of the trip. I want something with a bit more support, even if it adds few extra pounds.

I want to figure out how to carry my pack lengthwise on my rack and go without rear panniers. I haven't done any experimenting yet, but this is on my to do list.

No need to apologize. We all have different concepts of what constitutes a bicycle tour. In this case, I'm most interested in interacting with the wilderness, and the nearest alpine wilderness area is over 1000 miles away. So I want to travel fast to try to skip over the terrain that lies between me and my destination. Of course there are lots of other good options that would get me to my destination more quickly. Last summer I traveled by train, for instance. But I like to avoid motorized transportation whenever there is another viable option.

I'd suggest take everything you don't need along the way and UPS or Fed-Ex it to your destination, rather than toting it on a bicycle. Such as hiking boots.

I am aiming to get my faired recumbent up at least to this speed for loaded touring. But I am planning to cheat by adding 40W solar electric assist.

Suggest having a read of this book: "The Great Bike Ride: Around the World in 80 Days". By Nick Sanders. At one point he was doing 300km/day in India. He was also complaining that he was puking over his handlebars, and his knees were bleeding, so maybe this isn't such a good idea.

Carefull not to crush the nerves on the bottom of your feet from long hours in cleated shoes. I'm still recovering from a trip a few months ago from this ailment.

Cheers

Olly

If you give yourself a few extra days you'll be fine.

definetly go 'ultralite'. Fully loaded, 50 pounds of gear, 200 miles a day for a week? Have you even done ONE 200 mile day fully loaded on a bike yet?

...I have a synthetic bag, which is a weight issue. It's only rated to 40 degrees F, so it's about as light as you can go with synthetics, but it's still a lot more than an equivalent down bag. I'll look for some deals on mountaineering websites in the next few months to see if I can get a good deal on something lighter...
...well as a pair of gaiters for off trail bushwhacking.

...I have an MSR Dragonfly, but I think I can save a lot of weight by going without any cooking gear at all...

I'm not willing to go without some tough hiking boots. Last summer I did a couple of weeks of backpacking with a lot of off trail travel. I only brought trail running shoes, and my feet were in agony for most of the trip...

A lot of this sounds good. You haven't really described the mountain part of your trip so it is hard to say what to carry for that. I am going to assume summer time in the Colorado Rockies with not a lot of technical...Not even an ice axe but still the possibility of being above tree line.

A couple of comments:

A down bag for below freezing should come in at about a pound or so. Mine is rated down to 0 F and has a gortex outer shell. Since you might end up in a bivy sack or wrapped in a tarp the waterproof/breathable shell is a good idea. Given the limited clothing you are carrying and that there will probably be no snow in which to dig a snow cave (you also won't have a shovel or ice axe, probably), the bag and bivy will be your last line of defense if you are caught in a storm so don't scimp on this. Also, carry a warm mountaineering hat that can't be blown off your head and warm gloves or mits.

Don't forget something to sterilize water with. The UV water treatment products like the SteriPEN might be useful here.

Unless you are doing a lot of glacier or snow then the boots are a place to save some weight. Tough does not necessarily mean heavy. I have used low-top (running shoe like hiking shoes) shoes for multi-day approaches for years...However, the cheaper ones cannot stand the punishment or be comfortable for rough packing cross country. Get better ones that support your feet and give them plenty of workout before you leave to make sure they cushion well.

If you need a higher boot for going over a lot of scree then try a light pair of leather Redwing boots. Believe it or not, I have used these even with (flexible, full 12 point) crampons for moderate (60 degree) technical (French technique) glacier travel on, for instance, the north slopes of Mt Shasta. Wouldn't do a water fall with them but they are as comfortable as bedroom slippers.

This is way out of my experience but can I suggest the following:

2. Look up the Crane brothers' Journey to the Centre of the Earth.

.

+1 on the Crane Bros trip, it's inspirational, their book is online at

http://web.archive.org/web/20041211045554/http://www.koopmann.lightup.net/crane/

Their highest mileage day was 132 miles, but it was done at 13000 feet above sea level.
You should be able to fit all your gear in a couple of small rear panniers or a saddlebag and
a handlebar bag a la Henry Kingman

http://milly.org/rambouillet/index.htm

However, unless you are truly RAAM material I'm skeptical about doing multiple 200 mile days.

Sounds like you are on the right track gear-wise

Some web links

http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Ultralightweight.htm
http://www.ultralightbackpacker.com/
http://onestep4me.tripod.com/
http://www.backpackinglight.com/
http://www.trailquest.net/ultralight.html
http://www.adventurealan.com/
http://www.bright.net/~mziegler/BeforeAfter/bikepacking.htm

There's another link I can't find, file called bikepack weight or similar, from this website http://www2.arnes.si/%7Eikovse/index.htm
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Found it: http://www2.arnes.si/%7Eikovse/weight.htm
He describes a stripped-down backpack. Attachment could be improved. Weight could be halved with different materials.

What bivvy are you choosing? Many are heavier than the tarptent.

Approach shoes as rugged, less heavy footwear?

What bike?
Are you light enough to use an Audax-style road bike rather than a touring-style road bike? (eg. 60kg rider +15kg gear = full touring load on a racing bike with no problems for the wheels; 90kg rider + 25kg gear = different story).

I'm looking at the outdoor research micronight bivy. It's cheap and light. I particularly like the idea of a bivy over a tarp tent because the setup time is minimal, even though the weight difference is negligible.

I'm tipping the scale at about 84 kg right now. I hope to drop below 80 kg by summertime, but getting much lighter than that is unrealistic. I've been touring on a bianchi volpe for years, and I think I'll stick with that bike. I've broken a ton of spokes over the years, and I don't want to risk it with light, low spoke count wheels. I've found that you can keep riding at a pretty good pace with a broken spoke on a 36 spoke wheel. But it's almost impossible to ride far or fast when you break a spoke on a wheel with a lower spoke count. When I broke a spoke on an 18 spoke rim, the wheel went so far out of true that I could barely ride it.

I'll be up in the Wind River Range. And you're right that I don't expect to be doing any real mountaineering. I'd like to go for Gannett's peak, but I doubt I can convince my friend to do anything that would be even a little bit technical, so I will most likely not be carrying an ice axe or crampons.

I think I'll go with iodine for water treatment. I have a pump filter, but it's pretty bulky, and comparatively heavy. And it's a pain to pump a lot of water. Those UV filters are pretty cool looking, but iodine works almost as quickly, and the taste doesn't really bother me too much.

The boots I expect to take are Montrail Torre GTXs. They weigh probably twice as much as a light pair of approach shoes. But as I mentioned in a previous comment, I had foot pain issues last year, so I'd rather have the additional support. I'll probably be traveling a lot lighter on the trail than I was last year, but I just don't want to chance it. Last year I was hiking in La Sportiva Exum Ridges, which, I was assured, are an excellent approach shoe.

I often get foot pain issues from riding in my spd cleated shoes, when on tour. I'm thinking of upgrading to a better road pedal that distributes the pressure over a larger portion of the shoe. I've never had the pain linger more than a day or two after a tour though. That must suck, recovering for a whole month! On my last tour I had serious ulnar nerve issues. Almost all of my fingers were completely numb for about two weeks after I completed my tour. This time I'm thinking about getting some clip on aero bars so that I can get my weight off of my hands whenever possible.

I did one 194 mile day fully loaded, with around 40+ pounds of gear. It was not easy, but it did come on the last day of a two week tour, in which I was averaging over 135 miles per day. I was not in good enough shape to attempt consecutive fully loaded double centuries on that tour, but I hope to train twice as hard this spring.

If I had the money to buy a whole new bike and farings to go along with it, a bent would be a better option. But I just can't justify the expense.

Now we start to drill down a bit...

Your issues with foot and ulna nerve problems suggest that you need to get a proper bike fit done by someone who understands fast touring. Your foot pain may well be shoes -- I'd recommend Specialized shoes with the Body Geometry insole; it sounds like marketing hype, but I have found the insole to be very effective in solving Mortons neuroma/hotfoot/sole pain problems. This is a vital issue to work out because you will be relying on your feet for the hiking. However, there could be other issues at play, including knee-over-pedal-spindle, and cadence (do you tend to mash or spin at higher revs?).

Fitting aerobars may have the twin benefit of improving your aerodynamic efficiency, and your perceived comfort, but they can be a can of worms. If your fit is not right, aerobars can actually exacerbate the problem... usually you will find the seating position for long-term low-down riding needs to be altered from what you would normally use. Remember, aerobars were meant for quite upright, triathlon-style bikes.

A cheaper and more effective option is that bike fit. And don't get too bogged down with the fascination with ultralight loaded touring, at the expense of making your bike as comfortable as it can possibly be. Saving a pound of two means nothing if you are in agony half way to your destination.

By the by, do you use Brooks?