View Full Version : Trainer training!
This morning I opted for Uphill Grind from the Spinervals library. Got a good sweat on this one!
In the past, I've really only used the trainer in the first couple of months of the year when the weather was poor. Beyond March, I rarely get on there.
What I notice, however, is that my spinning is way improved after numerous indoor workouts (right now I suck). What I'm thinking about is continuing to do trainer sessions once a week or so..maybe every other week...through the rest of the year. I'm wondering if this would help overall with my pedal stroke and technique and this would translate to the outdoor rides.
I get great workouts on this thing, which is the 2nd question. This comes up all the time in the Road Forum. Does being on the trainer really affect tire life? Is this something to be concerned about? I use Conti Ultrasports...not really expensive tires so they're easy to replace anyway.
Sheldon
With the advent of tires specifically marketed for trainer use, I wondered the same thing. How does a smooth metal surface compare with the rough texture of asphault or concrete, particularly after exposure to sunlight during 90F+ daytime temps mid summer?? Without having any particular data for comparison other than feeling the temp and texture of the tread wheel on my trainer after use, it seems to me that the concept of specialized tires for trainer use is more of a marketing ploy than anything else. But I'm open to any objective data that suggests otherwise.
ronjon10
02-03-08, 05:46 PM
I have no objective data, just a couple of guesses.
- 1 - I don't think trainers are harder on tires in general, but I imagine they put a lot of pressure on one point on the tire. On the road, you'll even out some wear by turning and little wobbles back and forth. On the trainer, all the wear is focused on one spot which could wear that spot faster
- 2 - If you're using expensive tires, you wouldn't want to wear it out on a trainer. As you said, if you're using less expensive tires that are in the same price range as a trainer tire, it probably doesn't matter.
DaveSANYYZ
02-03-08, 06:06 PM
Probably wears out faster due to increased heat on the trainer?
I've read that some trainer tires are quieter, but not sure if that's really the case. Switching tires or having a dedicated wheel w/cassette is a pain/$.
I'm sure there's truth in what you say Ron. But I've noticed a definite flattening of the center area on tires I ride on the road after 1000 miles. I don't think the milage put on the trainer comes close to competing with the outdoor milage ridden annually, at least in SoCal. Even doing 40 to 60 minutes of hi intensity intervals on the trainer only amounts to 10 or 15 miles, compared to the typical 30+ miles of a routine outdoor ride.
IanInSD
02-03-08, 06:29 PM
If you're trying to get a perfect circle, don't bother, it's actually counter productive. All current studies show that elite cyclists (Olympics and Professionals) do two things better than us regular cyclists:
1) They put more force on the downstroke
2) They unload on the upstroke
scvroadie
02-03-08, 06:34 PM
On my trainer with regular tires I noticed the increased wear on the tires, I do think it was because of the constant pressure where the wheel meets the resistance unit. When I used a conventional road tire I noticed excessive wear after about 20 sessions on the trainer. Little bits of rubber coming off of the tire.
At that point I decided to use an older extra wheel and gear set that I had and put on continental's trainer specific tire. The rubber seems compound on the trainer tire definitely wears better than the rubber on the regular tires. I have over 50 sessions on these and still very little wear.
ronjon10
02-03-08, 07:09 PM
If you're trying to get a perfect circle, don't bother, it's actually counter productive. All current studies show that elite cyclists (Olympics and Professionals) do two things better than us regular cyclists:
1) They put more force on the downstroke
2) They unload on the upstroke
Ooh, a chance for me to throw out more conjecture based on something I heard and may have even misunderstood. :p
If a truly perfect circle is 100% efficient, to maximize power, you should only be going at about 70% efficiency to account for the fact that your quads are stronger and should be doing more work. That's basically to your points there in 1&2. Triathletes however, benefit from higher efficiency as it saves energy for the running portion. ( Please take my disclaimer into account before you shred me too much on that last part :) )
On my trainer with regular tires I noticed the increased wear on the tires, I do think it was because of the constant pressure where the wheel meets the resistance unit. When I used a conventional road tire I noticed excessive wear after about 20 sessions on the trainer. Little bits of rubber coming off of the tire.
At that point I decided to use an older extra wheel and gear set that I had and put on continental's trainer specific tire. The rubber seems compound on the trainer tire definitely wears better than the rubber on the regular tires. I have over 50 sessions on these and still very little wear.
+100...
I agree with Lee...I saw some pretty good wear on my tires and not have the Conti trainer tire..it works great!!
Well I'm definitely a long way from having 20, let alone 50, seasons on a trainer, so I'll have to accept Lee and Herb's observations.
I dont have 50 sessions...but I do have quite a few on there...
The trainer tire feels very different than a regular tire...it is also harder to get on....I had to let it sit in the sun for while to soften...
But once its one...its great...seems quieter also....
The interesting thing is that I've had my old 10 speed on the trainer for 3 years and have never changed the tire! It's got some wear in the middle but I never ride it outdoors so I don't care.
I'm only just starting to use my regular roadie for workouts. ]
Sheldon
Oh; I misread that. I thought Lee said seasons, not sessions. I don't know if I have 20 sessions on a single tire yet or not, but I've never experienced rubber particals coming off of a Tufo that I used all last winter in the same type of use described by nesdog. As for noise level, I was doing my first trainer intervals this afternoon this winter season, and was actually very impressed at how quiet it is.
Oh; I misread that. I thought Lee said seasons, not sessions. I don't know if I have 20 sessions on a single tire yet or not, but I've never experienced rubber particals coming off of a Tufo that I used all last winter in the same type of use described by nesdog. As for noise level, I was doing my first trainer intervals this afternoon this winter season, and was actually very impressed at how quiet it is.
We used to have a mag trainer that was pretty noisy. When we switched to fluid, the result was a much quieter ride.
Last year, I got a total of 10 trainer sessions before heading outdoors for the rest of the year. This year, I'm going for more than that as described in the original post.
Sheldon
I picked a little book up last year titled "Workouts in a Binder for Indoor Cycling". The interval methods it contains takes a lot of the tedium out of the trainer, and if 40-60 minutes on a trainer can provide the equivalent of 2 hrs on the road as suggested by a number of trainer/coaches, well planned trainer use should prove beneficial. So I'm inclined toward the same direction if I can stick to a program.
I picked a little book up last year titled "Workouts in a Binder for Indoor Cycling". The interval methods it contains takes a lot of the tedium out of the trainer, and if 40-60 minutes on a trainer can provide the equivalent of 2 hrs on the road as suggested by a number of trainer/coaches, well planned trainer use should prove beneficial. So I'm inclined toward the same direction if I can stick to a program.
My preference is to do the Spinervals sessions; we have quite a few of these in our workout library. If I had to follow a self-guided course, I probably wouldn't work as hard. Coach Troy insists on full participation!
Sheldon
genedoc
02-04-08, 04:35 PM
I spoke with a few people (including the folks at Kurt Kinetic) and while I don't think anyone knew definitively, I sensed the consensus was that the extra deformation caused by a round roller vs. a flat road surface combined with the extra heat is what leads to accelerated tire degradation on a trainer for some people. I went with the Conti trainer tire at the start so I do not have personal experience with the a regular road tire, but there were enough reports last year when I bought the trainer to convince me it was worth while. I also hate having to swap wheels out, so I did the only obvious thing - I built a dedicated trainer bike.
I have both Spinervals DVDs and Charmichael DVDs. I personally like the Carmichael DVDs better, but both are effective.
To the OP, trainers can be a very effective training tool throughout the year and you don't need to ride it for more than 1 to 1.5 hours. IMO it is most effective when used for intervals. I don't think you need a trainer to work on leg speed or stroke - whatever you believe the proper technique to be. The benefits of various sets of 2-10 minute intervals with minimal recovery between each interval or set on a trainer is hard to replicate on the road - at least in the same time period.
My preference is to do the Spinervals sessions; we have quite a few of these in our workout library. If I had to follow a self-guided course, I probably wouldn't work as hard. Coach Troy insists on full participation!
Sheldon
+100...
DaveSANYYZ
02-04-08, 06:04 PM
+1 on Spinervals, although I think that may depend on the person. I have 2 cycling training books at home; and while I have read through them, the structured training/need to develop and follow a routine is a little too much for my laziness. On the other hand with Spinervals, I'm more tempted to complete the session even if I have to push myself a lot to do so.
I find my magnetic trainer to be noisy. Since some of you guys have good experience with trainer tires, I think I'll try it since I have an extra rear wheel.
+1 on Spinervals, although I think that may depend on the person. I have 2 cycling training books at home; and while I have read through them, the structured training/need to develop and follow a routine is a little too much for my laziness. On the other hand with Spinervals, I'm more tempted to complete the session even if I have to push myself a lot to do so.
I find my magnetic trainer to be noisy. Since some of you guys have good experience with trainer tires, I think I'll try it since I have an extra rear wheel.
Probikekit usually has great deals on the conti trainer tire!
But dave, if you are doing 3hr trainer sessions, you may need to get 2 tires!:eek::rolleyes::p
DaveSANYYZ
02-04-08, 08:11 PM
It's the Spinervals "Tough Love" 3-hrs dvd. You should try it too. :D:p It's been a while since my legs are still significantly sore the next day. I think the stand pedaling in small ring/21 killed me.
Thanks for the info on the conti trainer tire. :)
It's the Spinervals "Tough Love" 3-hrs dvd. You should try it too. :D:p It's been a while since my legs are still significantly sore the next day. I think the stand pedaling in small ring/21 killed me.
Thanks for the info on the conti trainer tire. :)
They actually have a full Spinervals Century ride on DVD! How's that for a long day in your room?
Sheldon
ronjon10
02-04-08, 08:21 PM
They actually have a full Spinervals Century ride on DVD! How's that for a long day in your room?
Sheldon
Oh man could there be anything more tedious? Ugh. I've got a couple of those dvds. I guess I work harder, but it's not any more interesting or fun. Waiting for the trainer controller for the PS3. They had one for the PS2 but was eventually discontinued, no idea how well it worked or not.
Entropy906
02-04-08, 08:30 PM
It's the Spinervals "Tough Love" 3-hrs dvd. You should try it too. :D:p It's been a while since my legs are still significantly sore the next day. I think the stand pedaling in small ring/21 killed me.
Thanks for the info on the conti trainer tire. :)
I have that DVD and that part just kills me too. It's during that time that I think Coach Troy was sent by a greater being to destroy all that is good in the world. But then he says that I did a good job and all is forgiven.
I do like his Tucson Training Ride DVD also.
It's the Spinervals "Tough Love" 3-hrs dvd. You should try it too. :D:p It's been a while since my legs are still significantly sore the next day. I think the stand pedaling in small ring/21 killed me.
Thanks for the info on the conti trainer tire. :)
Wow...that is defintiely some tough love....wow
I can't do that...it feel like I going to fly off standing at those gears..I keep trying,,but it doesnt feel right...
They actually have a full Spinervals Century ride on DVD! How's that for a long day in your room?
Sheldon
Thats just wrong!
I have that DVD and that part just kills me too. It's during that time that I think Coach Troy was sent by a greater being to destroy all that is good in the world. But then he says that I did a good job and all is forgiven.
I do like his Tucson Training Ride DVD also.
How are those "scenic" trainers ones? I always wondered if they were any good?
Entropy906
02-04-08, 08:40 PM
Thats just wrong!
I think the century is on 2 DVD's so you do get a break to switch discs.
How are those "scenic" trainers ones? I always wondered if they were any good?
We just got his afternoon cruise in Maryland. It's really fun, and nice to be "outside" for a change.
Sheldon
Entropy906
02-04-08, 08:43 PM
How are those "scenic" trainers ones? I always wondered if they were any good?
They're infinitely better than watching a bunch of sweaty people on trainers. Unless those people were hot women surrounded by mirrors... Anyway it adds to the illusion of actually going somewhere.
tprevost
02-04-08, 08:44 PM
How are those "scenic" trainers ones? I always wondered if they were any good?
The woman who did my fitting had one of those for me to use when I was warming up... very very cool! You can even download your own routes and it will use your garmin (or whatever) info to make the peddling harder or easier depending on where you are in your route...
ronjon10
02-04-08, 08:47 PM
The woman who did my fitting had one of those for me to use when I was warming up... very very cool! You can even download your own routes and it will use your garmin (or whatever) info to make the peddling harder or easier depending on where you are in your route...
Ooh that's awesome. You happen to remember the name of that setup?
They're infinitely better than watching a bunch of sweaty people on trainers. Unless those people were hot women surrounded by mirrors... Anyway it adds to the illusion of actually going somewhere.
Thanks..I may have to get one of those to try!
Hmm...I wonder if they accept requests for new dvds!!;)
Entropy906
02-04-08, 08:52 PM
X-rated Spinervals would be huge!
tprevost
02-04-08, 08:58 PM
Ooh that's awesome. You happen to remember the name of that setup?
Its a Compu-Trainer Pro Model - not cheap...
http://www.racermateinc.com/compu_pro3d.asp
jpconrad
02-04-08, 09:02 PM
X-rated Spinervals would be huge!
Wouldn't that make it hard to ride? :D
You could just put on an adult movie, or Cinemax, and time your intervals appropriately enough.
ronjon10
02-04-08, 09:10 PM
Its a Compu-Trainer Pro Model - not cheap...
http://www.racermateinc.com/compu_pro3d.asp
Ah yeah. They use it at phase iv to do the lactate tests and spin scan analysis. And yeah, not cheap. Though, it's probably much better to spend money on that than upgrading to blingy components. Alas...
Entropy906
02-04-08, 09:11 PM
Wouldn't that make it hard to ride? :D
You could just put on an adult movie, or Cinemax, and time your intervals appropriately enough.
It would just be awkward without the "actors" on trainers.
Its a Compu-Trainer Pro Model - not cheap...
http://www.racermateinc.com/compu_pro3d.asp
cough cough...thats an understatement...thats 1/2 a new bike right there...
tprevost
02-04-08, 09:14 PM
Ah yeah. They use it at phase iv to do the lactate tests and spin scan analysis. And yeah, not cheap. Though, it's probably much better to spend money on that than upgrading to blingy components. Alas...
yeah, its around $1600... at one point I could get a pro deal that would have made it about $800 but it was still too much for me to cough up :rolleyes:
tprevost
02-04-08, 09:14 PM
cough cough...thats an understatement...thats 1/2 a new bike right there...
yep... lots of $$$ ... :o
DaveSANYYZ
02-04-08, 09:49 PM
My bro-in-law has the less $ model from Tacx, but still expensive never the less (~$1200). The trainer sync's in with the video and automatically adjusts resistance and even spin the wheel for you on downhill. (http://www.tacx.com/producten.php?language=EN&lvlMain=16&lvlSub=55&ttop=VR%20trainers)
Tacx also makes 1st-person scenic ride videos that don't involve the expensive equipment. It tells you what resistance level to set to instead on the sidebar. I have one of those (Pyrenee Stage), and I find it a little boring.
Don't know about you, but I find the ladies in the Spinerval dvd's to be quite cute. :lol:
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