"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Matches

What I learned from the team's clinic this past weekend is that I have a good "jump", but not very good repeatability. In other words, the critique I received indicated that I need to increase the number of "matches" in my book.

What are some thoughts on improving the repeatability of VO2max/anaerobic efforts?

edit: The comments came following a drill on how to bridge across to a break. I got a good jump to get some separation from the pack, and was able to hold enough power to bridge up to the break, but only had 2-3 of these efforts in my legs.

In every race I've ever been in or witnessed, the guys that had the most "matches" were the guys with the high FTP.

High FTP=high recovery rate.
High recovery rate=ready to go sooner, harder.

Anaerobic work will enable you to push a higher maximum wattage during an attack; the 1min burst to make your initial gap. It won't help you gain repeatability.

In every race I've ever been in or witnessed, the guys that had the most "matches" were the guys with the high FTP.

High FTP=high recovery rate.
High recovery rate=ready to go sooner, harder.

Anaerobic work will enable you to push a higher maximum wattage during an attack; the 1min burst to make your initial gap. It won't help you gain repeatability.

Not sure I agree with that last bit. In my experience, intervals in the 30-second to 2-minute range DO help with repeated anaerobic efforts. You're certainly correct that having high FTP helps a ton too, but I think you undergo some different kinds of adaptations if you subject your body to repeated anaerobic efforts. At least it sure seems like it.

BTW, I can't wait to hear about your bud Druber's trip to SoCal. Sounds like Blvd RR was pretty tough in the 45+!!

Mark
http://marcofanelli.blogspot.com

In every race I've ever been in or witnessed, the guys that had the most "matches" were the guys with the high FTP.

Are we talking about an absolute high FTP, or high FTP relative to weight?

In every race I've ever been in or witnessed, the guys that had the most "matches" were the guys with the high FTP.



Having a high FTP, doesn't necessarily give you more matches. It does, however, mean that there are fewer times in the course of a race that you have to go above your FTP, thus allowing you to save the matches you have. So raising your FTP is obviously a good thing, but I don't I think it exactly addresses BD's issue.

Power Intervals, on short rest, I think would help with your particular issue. My Coach right now has me doing power intervals, (maximal effort at 110-120rpms) 3 minutes on, 3 minutes off. The high rpm drive yours HR sky high. Sets of 6-10 of those I think would help.

Not sure I agree with that last bit. In my experience, intervals in the 30-second to 2-minute range DO help with repeated anaerobic efforts. You're certainly correct that having high FTP helps a ton too, but I think you undergo some different kinds of adaptations if you subject your body to repeated anaerobic efforts. At least it sure seems like it.

BTW, I can't wait to hear about your bud Druber's trip to SoCal. Sounds like Blvd RR was pretty tough in the 45+!!

Mark
http://marcofanelli.blogspot.com

I saw him two weekends ago at my team's indoor TT series. He crushed everyone, obviously. But, not only did he go 410+ INDOORS for ALL THREE TT's he did, he's looking slimmer than I've seen him in quite some time.

I 2nd the FTP is king thought. I have rarely been training my sprint, and it continues to improve while I work on my FTP. The thing that struck me is that my 5th and 6th sprints are now MUCH stronger than they used to be. Same thing with 1m intervals. High quality for all six -- but they still hurt like hell.

Before I started concentrating on my FTP, my repeatability was crap.

Disagree. I have a good FTP (relative to other power), but got burned up hard core every time the field would jump this last weekend. Consistent problem for me, so while FTP clearly matters, I wouldn't say it's king.

In my prime (lol) I was fortunate enough to have been able to do the SUNY Purchase Tues Night sprint rides. They went from about 5 to 7 pm, with maybe 30-45 minutes before and up to an hour of cooling down after.

After 4 to 6 weeks of sprints I started coming around for the rest of the year. At that point I'd feel pretty invincible, in sprints anyway. I could double or triple jump in a sprint, making up to maybe 5 separate efforts in a 1 mile practice sprint. This would include the initial accelerations, perhaps a jump or two to respond to counter-leadouts, and then at least one or two separate jumps in the sprint. I'd contest 10-15 such sprints, one every 7 to 14 minutes. A lap took about 7 minutes, I regularly contested sprints in consecutive laps although normally one would sit out every other lap.

I found that these workouts, with immense motivation to go "just one more time", really helped my repeat effort capability. I sorely lack this aspect in my current racing arsenal. I've searched for a way to regain this for more than 10 years. What I found in similar workouts (my Thursday Night Downtown Sprints with vehicles standing in for a field of riders) is that after I gained a certain amount of fitness I could start working on the repeat effort workouts.

Using cars it was really only two, maybe three jumps, spread out over 500-750 meters, one to get on the car/truck's bumper, another to jump around it, and maybe one to respond to a driver's "sudden acceleration" when they notice me on their bumper.

After one or two sprints I'd be pretty nauseatious (sp?), feel like I can't go anymore. But with enough motivation (a car rolling past me at 35-38 mph, or, the best, a truck rolling by me a mile from my "finish line") I could muster up enough energy to jump once more... and then dig for the effort necessary to stay with the car... and then, to avoid wasting all that effort for nothing, grovel and make a big effort to try and jump past it and throw my bike at my goal line.

What surprised me is that, after a couple weeks of once-a-week sprints, once I got to the "man do I feel ill" state (1-5 sprints), I could do an additional 1-2 hours of sprints, maybe 5-10-15 sprints.

I found that each year I'd go through the same pattern. First I'd be too conservative with the gears, staying in a low gear, maybe a 53x13 or 14. Then, when I started getting cocky, I'd start over gearing, popping it into the 12 way too soon and bogging down. Finally I'd rip out a nice sprint, not over gearing, usually in the 13, breaking through my speed barrier of approx 38-40 mph. Then I'd spend the rest of the summer doing sprint workouts, the first couple jumps of each workout essentially replaying the "too low, too high, just right" gear selections, then spending the rest of them trying to get the next gear (12 or 11) to turn over as quickly as I could turn over the 13.

I really think such sprint drills are extremely helpful for many reasons. Group ride sprints are excellent for developing sprint tactics. Any multiple sprint workout is great for the physical demands repeated 100% efforts put on a racer. The SUNY sprints ended after about 2 years where a guy would sometimes show up with beer or other treats as sprint prizes. He was not interested in doing the sprints, but he enjoyed watching the sprints a lot.

a repost but this is a typical Thursday Night Downtown Sprint but it's during non-dark hours:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yYVNScVS6bM
It's a bit shorter than a normal one but do that 10 or 15 times and you'll be able to make repeated efforts in a more race like setting.

cdr

my Thursday Night Downtown Sprints with vehicles standing in for a field of riders

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yYVNScVS6bM


You. Rock.

In every race I've ever been in or witnessed, the guys that had the most "matches" were the guys with the high FTP.

High FTP=high recovery rate.
High recovery rate=ready to go sooner, harder.

Anaerobic work will enable you to push a higher maximum wattage during an attack; the 1min burst to make your initial gap. It won't help you gain repeatability.

OP - Don't know if this helps or not, but I agree with Duke, more or less. I have a high FTP relative to my Anaerobic levels; and have been getting tested a lot lately for an altitude study I'm in. The people doing the testing remarked about how quickly I recovered from harder work.

I never thought that repeated high-output work was a strength of mine, but they did.

What I learned from the team's clinic this past weekend is that I have a good "jump", but not very good repeatability. In other words, the critique I received indicated that I need to increase the number of "matches" in my book.

What are some thoughts on improving the repeatability of VO2max/anaerobic efforts?
edit: The comments came following a drill on how to bridge across to a break. I got a good jump to get some separation from the pack, and was able to hold enough power to bridge up to the break, but only had 2-3 of these efforts in my legs.

Have you specifically trained these areas yet in this training season? If not, then you've got to take the critique with a grain of salt.

Overall, I'm not sure what the answer to the repeatability riddle is, but know that it's something I actually can count as a strength (my matches dont burn that long, but I've got a good # of them) ... not sure why but it's a great question, I look forward to seeing more thoughts on this.

Have you specifically trained these areas yet in this training season? If not, then you've got to take the critique with a grain of salt.

No. One grain? ok, I can handle that. But not two.

Disagree. I have a good FTP (relative to other power), but got burned up hard core every time the field would jump this last weekend. Consistent problem for me, so while FTP clearly matters, I wouldn't say it's king.

Well, to be an effective king, you must treat your kingdom well. FTP's court consists of neuromuscular power, anaerobic capacity, VO2Max. How has the rest of your kingdom been treated so far this season? ;)

My take is that you already can do more of these, you just don't because they hurt more than the first few and you don't believe you can. The mind is very powerful, don't underestimate it.

For example when I joined my current team I started doing an intense hill climb workout with guys that outclass me at everything cycling. The first few workouts I would spill my guts on every climb trying to keep up with these guys - going into the pain cave way deeper than ever before. If I had just gone by my past training, and by how my legs felt, I would never have believed that I could finish the workout with them. I would have guessed that I had maybe 6-7 of these efforts in my legs when in reality I had closer to 16.

Sure it took a lot of motivation, risk of damaged pride, little nausea, and a whole lot of stubbornness but now I KNOW I can do way more than I ever thought possible. My central governor learned a lesson that day... when you feel like crap and the pace turns up just know you can do it. Ignore Guido, Dick wears the pants when it comes to my training.

I forgot about Dick and Guido.... until now.

I probably had more breakout efforts in me, but opening one up would have entailed me vomiting. Is it beneficial to push yourself to the point of regurgitation?

I believe the FTP-is-king bit, my sprint is usually pretty much the same. How I feel after the sprint usually depends on how I felt before the sprint, and if my FTP is higher, I usually feel better and can recover more quickly.

I forgot about Dick and Guido.... until now.

I probably had more breakout efforts in me, but opening one up would have entailed me vomiting. Is it beneficial to push yourself to the point of regurgitation?

On occasion. besides you might not chuck, you just will feel like it.

Two guys spewed on that ride over the course of last summer, but I bet almost everyone felt like it at some point.

Are we talking about an absolute high FTP, or high FTP relative to weight?

Sorry to repeat, but I'm still curious about this question.

^^^^ FTP relative to where your curve rests in the profile chart. For myself, my FTP used to be 9 rows below my 5s power. Now it's 6 or 7 (haven't tested in a while). I'm not trying to do this by inhibiting the other columns, but I've really been focusing on the FTP.

Regarding W/kg, this is obviously important, but I we're taking about developing the numerator here, not hte denominator. Losing weight will not develop your recovery for anaerobic capacity efforts.

Losing weight will not develop your recovery for anaerobic capacity efforts.

Actually it might, if the layer of subcutaneous tissue is thinner you will dissipate heat faster, and heat buildup is one of the major performance limiters when doing extended or repeated near maximal efforts.

Actually it might, if the layer of subcutaneous tissue is thinner you will dissipate heat faster, and heat buildup is one of the major performance limiters when doing extended or repeated near maximal efforts.

Yeah, I was thinking about that as you posted. You know what I mean! :)

Actually it might, if the layer of subcutaneous tissue is thinner you will dissipate heat faster, and heat buildup is one of the major performance limiters when doing extended or repeated near maximal efforts.

I've actually been thinking about this on and off for the past couple of months. I think I'll start a new thread on it.

In every race I've ever been in or witnessed, the guys that had the most "matches" were the guys with the high FTP.

High FTP=high recovery rate.
High recovery rate=ready to go sooner, harder.

Anaerobic work will enable you to push a higher maximum wattage during an attack; the 1min burst to make your initial gap. It won't help you gain repeatability.


I have a low FTP *mid range CAT 4 according to the w/kg chart* but several 1 minute matches to burn in a race. So either I havent done enough FTP intervals to raise my FTP or im a recovery freak.

I guess with a sprinter's profile, your matches look brighter (as a % of FTP). I wonder if this can make it look like a rider has used more matches.