Bike levy ‘idiotic’

[craigdurkee]

armer wants to introduce bike levies and on-road costs for cyclists.

He wants every rider on the roads to pay a registration fee.

“For far too long motorists have said I pay my registration fees to use the roads and cyclists get on having paid nothing for the privilege and slow me down,” Mr Farmer said.

“I believe the true way forward is to charge a small fee right across the board.

“The administration could be done through the cycling shops for every cycle sold to people over a certain age.”

rest of article here (http://bicyclecommuter.net/2008/02/05/bike-levy-idiotic/)

[StrangeWill]

Sure, we'll pay per-weight compared to vehicles, so thats like $0.40.

[Allister]

Wish him luck. It's never worked anywhere else it's been tried, but you never know.

[UmneyDurak]

So if I already have a car I'll be "taxed" twice?

[classic1]

Is that the same Pat Farmer who used to run from Sydney to Melbourne at 6km/h holding up traffic for miles? :rolleyes: Isn't he National Party or Liberal? Weren't they just unelected? Lolz.

[Pepper Grinder]

I'm more than willing to pay a gasoline tax for my bike. I'm also willing to pay a vehicle fee by the lb as long as all vehicles are charged the same per lb. fee. This should be fun.

[unkchunk]

I'm more than willing to pay a gasoline tax for my bike. I'm also willing to pay a vehicle fee by the lb as long as all vehicles are charged the same per lb. fee. This should be fun.

Count me in too. I mean after all, fair is fair. I don't see what's wrong with say an annual dollar per vehicle pound fee.

[Allister]

Is that the same Pat Farmer who used to run from Sydney to Melbourne at 6km/h holding up traffic for miles? :rolleyes: Isn't he National Party or Liberal? Weren't they just unelected? Lolz.

Liberal apparently - not in power.

Federal member - no real say over state controlled roads and registration.

Shadow minister for Youth and Sport - that really has nothing to do with on-road charges.

I'm not getting out the credit card just yet.

[maddyfish]

I see nothing wrong with, and even some great benefits to, a $1 per pound per year tax.
My Orbea $18, my neighbors HUGE cadillac SUV, about $6000/year, sounds fair.

[andrelam]

Sure, we'll pay per-weight compared to vehicles, so thats like $0.40.

We are also restricted from using many of the highways, so therefore you need to cut our cost by an other 50% so I'll pay my $0.20. The stamp and envelope will cost three times as much as the actual fee:D

André

[harleyfrog]

Okay, let me get this straight. If we are talking about an across the board per pound rate, let's look at the numbers. Assuming the lowest possible how amount available: one penny per pound (granted, kilos would be more fun ;) ). To make things easier, we will use the manufacturer's claimed curb weight (no sense in taxing cargo, which will vary too much). From that we get the following:

Vehicle: Hummer H2
Curb Weight: 6,614 lbs
Total Tax: $66.14

Vehicle: Toyota Tundra
Curb Weight: 5,520 lbs
Total Tax: $55.20

Vehicle: Toyota Sequoia
Curb Weight: 6,030 lbs
Total Tax: $60.30

Vehicle: Toyota Prius
Curb Weight: 2,932 lbs
Total Tax $29.32

Vehicle: Chevrolet Silverado 2WD, regular cab, standard box
Curb Weight: 4,453 lbs
Total Tax: $44.53

Vehicle: Chevrolet Suburban, 2WD, half-ton
Curb Weight: 5,608 lbs
Total Tax: $56.08

Vehicle: Cannondale Bad Boy
Curb Weight: 27 lbs
Total Tax: $0.27


Yep, looks fair to me. :D

[genec]

So if I already have a car I'll be "taxed" twice?

Well if you have more than one car, you pay more than one registration.

Don't worry, this won't send you to the poor farm.

[Dchiefransom]

It's not the fee, but attaching the full size license plate to the back of the bike that will get most folks ire up.

[iltb-2]

It's not the fee, but attaching the full size license plate to the back of the bike that will get most folks ire up.

Wait til "those folks" think of the extra grams!:eek: The aerodynamic drag! Yikes, the horror!:)

[harleyfrog]

It's not the fee, but attaching the full size license plate to the back of the bike that will get most folks ire up.

How about this: NO CRBN

:D

[LittleBigMan]

“I believe the true way forward is to charge a small fee right across the board."
I think that's a great idea. Everyone pays for the impact their vehicle has, not only on the road we all use, but on the air we all breathe. Zero-emission vehicles users should not have to pay anything, and neither should vehicles too light to cause damage or wear to the road.

:D

[mconlonx]

I wouldn't mind paying a nominal, annual fee just for when people say that you shouldn't be on the road or why aren't we paying our fair share. "Actually, this is a registered vehicle. Here's the card that said I paid my road-use fee. Any other complaints?" Besides, as road users, contributing something to traffic and road wear, no matter how minimal, why wouldn't it be fair.

To put it another way: if the revolution happened tomorrow and all of a sudden 25% of the population got on bikes to commute, where is that 25% drop in road fees going to come from to maintain the roads we share?

[syn0n]

It's not the fee, but attaching the full size license plate to the back of the bike that will get most folks ire up.
There is a solution:

http://i30.tinypic.com/wmbihx.jpg

I wouldn't mind something like that on my roadbike, honestly. Nobody would be able to say bikes can't be on the road if they're regestered vehicles.

[Pat]

I'm more than willing to pay a gasoline tax for my bike. I'm also willing to pay a vehicle fee by the lb as long as all vehicles are charged the same per lb. fee. This should be fun.

I am all for this. In facts, I propose a $1 per lb annual fee for ALL VEHICLES. Take that, you SUVS!!!

[dhofmann]

Instead of charging the fee based on weight, let's charge it based on how much damage the vehicle does to the road. Since a 22,400-lb axle load causes 6.4 times as much road damage as an 18,000-lb load (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,818683,00.html) despite being only 24% heavier, then imagine how much more damage an automobile does per pound than a bicyclist.

[bizzz111]

if you think bicycle fees will make the auto drivers suddenly shut the hell up about cyclists......keep dreaming.

[UmneyDurak]

Well if you have more than one car, you pay more than one registration.

Don't worry, this won't send you to the poor farm.

I am a grad student. I am already there. ;)

[skinnyone]

There is a solution:

http://i30.tinypic.com/wmbihx.jpg

I wouldn't mind something like that on my roadbike, honestly. Nobody would be able to say bikes can't be on the road if they're regestered vehicles.

That would increase the drag co-eff by a good 3%.. do not want..

[unkchunk]

To make things easier, we will use the manufacturer's claimed curb weight

Nah nah nah. This is better. All vehicles get weighed on a scale. As a special bonus for cagers they all get a free complementary fill up before they get weighed. What do you think? It's pretty good huh.

Okay here's the punch line. Figuring a gallon of gas costs about $3.00/gallon now, and gas weighs about 5.8 lbs/gallon minimum, that's a net profit to the state of... let's see, subtract and carry the seven... ahh, 2 dollars and 80 cents per gallon of "free gas". That's assuming we're going with the dollar per pound of vehicle weight fee of course.

________________________________________________________________
Unk "just figuring a new way to screw cagers out of an extra 20 bucks or so" Chunk

[StrangeWill]

Nah nah nah. This is better. All vehicles get weighed on a scale. As a special bonus for cagers they all get a free complementary fill up before they get weighed. What do you think? It's pretty good huh.

Okay here's the punch line. Figuring a gallon of gas costs about $3.00/gallon now, and gas weighs about 5.8 lbs/gallon minimum, that's a net profit to the state of... let's see, subtract and carry the seven... ahh, 2 dollars and 80 cents per gallon of "free gas". That's assuming we're going with the dollar per pound of vehicle weight fee of course.

________________________________________________________________
Unk "just figuring a new way to screw cagers out of an extra 20 bucks or so" Chunk

Curb weight always seems heavier than true weight.

[Allister]

So, if it is a nominal charge as mooted above, hands up who thinks it'll raise enough money to build a bikelane on every new road as our mate Pat suggests?

These suggestions seem to pop up every now and again from people with various level of influence. I haven't seen anyone making these proposals suggest an actual figure for the charge yet. Seems to me they lose interest when they do the actual maths. I reckon Farmer hasn't gotten around to doing them yet. You'd really think people would check the figures before shooting their mouth off in public, but that's politicians for you.

[CommuterRun]

I think these things always die when somebody figures out the fees collected won't pay the administrative costs.

Personally, I think if I had to live with something like this, I would always be using every exception to the "as far right as practicable" law. Instead of only when I deem it necessary in relation to my safety and that of other road users.

[StephenH]

I was reading here a while back that all the facilities for cyclists in the Netherlands had been financed by taxing cyclists. Of course, at the time, maybe they encouraging cycling so much as accommodating it.

[Tude]

cool - but only if I get a cool license plate (abnormally light weight too) for my bike.

Ya know - I've been so blasted by some "friends" and drivers and some others about this freakin fact that "we" don't pay for use on the road while THEY do and yet we "think" (BS, BTW) we have total rights to the road when we don't "pay" for it ...


Ugh. I'm sure some of my ugly taxes go into the insightly streets around my house - but - FAH - can't teach a total unbeliever about things they don't want to hear (yeah, buddy - we have rights to the road).


While I would prefer not to incur any extra costs - and I personally think it would be hard to administer this charge, etc - and would probably a PITA to prosecute, etc -- but I'm almost to the point where I say fine. If I can get that stupid driver who on purpose cut me off and swayed into me just so their 5 yr old daughter could roll down the passenger window (no seatbelt, huh) so this kid could yell the saying their parents planted in them of "GET OFF THE ROAD AND RIDE ON THE SIDEWALK" ... well ... I'd give in.

So FINE! - do it if it pleases you! Do charge me the (hopefully) small amount for using that road - my goodness my skinny little road tire must do soooo much damage that I should share in the repair .... and UGH - my mtb - well ... yes I do ride the stairs downtown plus dodge some main side streets by jumping some curbs and, GASP, riding over some city grass. Tsk Tsk. So fine I'll pay for that and use for your roads, if it makes the never ending jerks just lessen a fraction - it would be great.

Sometimes I get tired of fighting for my rights to be on the road. Tired of talking to people and inspiring them to try riding again (and I have inspired people as I've seen them come back to my festival/exposition booths the next year and greet me with a huge SMILE and say they bought a bike and have been riding because of me - and yes I've heard that a few times - have a pretty good return rate of some people who like to pick my brain as I'm there for them - mostly women - to ask questions of what to wear, etc - till they gain confidence). Sigh.

But I'll still keep doing it, I've actually hit some people who have come to see me repeatedly - and with other members of the family - who are now riding - and they're all smiling and ... sometimes it's just may that one person you inspired that keeps you going and understanding why you (I) think the way I do and keep pushing ... :)

[iltb-2]

Ya know - I've been so blasted by some "friends" and drivers and some others about this freakin fact that "we" don't pay for use on the road while THEY do and yet we "think" (BS, BTW) we have total rights to the road when we don't "pay" for it ...
Dat's strange! I just turned 61, been cycling all my life and never had anyone say a word to me about whether cyclists do or do not pay for use of the road. Never read about it anywhere either except on BF. Of course I never Googled for it either so that I could get riled up over someone, somewhere making stupid freakin comments about this stupid freakin fact.

[EnigManiac]

Registration fees don't pay for roads...at least not here in Canada. Municipal taxes do. Highways are paid for by provincial and federal taxes, the revenue of which is partially garnered from gasoline and other automotive-related taxes, but those routes already exclude bicycles, so cyclists should not have to pay for them. I ride exclusively on municipal roads and I pay property taxes that build and maintain those roads. Considering how much my equal right to my roads is respected and how little of the road I both require and am granted, I pay far more than I should.

With all due respect to blow-hard motorists with the misguided and inaccurate perception that licensing, registration and gas taxes pay for roads in our cities and towns, I suggest they consider how much damage they do to the roads, how much maintenance and replacement of surface and signage is required because of their accidents, how many resources are required when they collide and how much those resources financially impact the community. Our police department commands the largest share of the municipal budget, after all, and the police spend more time and money on HTA enforcement, traffic control and management and other car-related matters than anything else. Petty, imbittered motorists might also consider the overwhelming cost of environmental damage they inflict. If they have any brain at all, they would conclude they don't pay nearly enough and that bicyclists are the last ones on earth who should be paying EXTRA for the privelege of using the roads.

[thplmn72]

What about us people who don't ride on the rode. We need to pay too.

Every time I here Levy I think Bush must have broke it. It's his fault you know.

[unkchunk]

Curb weight always seems heavier than true weight.

Okay, you win. I looked it up and "curb weight" includes a full tank of fuel.

_______________________________________
Unk "It was a beautiful dream will it lasted" Chunk

[JusticeZero]

It gets better. Actually, road damage is related to, iirc, weight of vehicle SQUARED divided by wheels.

[StrangeWill]

It gets better. Actually, road damage is related to, iirc, weight of vehicle SQUARED divided by wheels.
Sounds possibly right, however I think a more accurate measurement would be like the surface area of a wheel and the load that is on it.

[slagjumper]

China recently repealed bicycle licensing. I'd support the license if they also charged hummer and large engine premiums.

I think that in the US, as far as federal improvements are concerned-- they allready require the building of bike facilities-

"Mr Farmer said that in return for the registration fee the Government would make sure there was a designated bike lane for every new road that was built."

[iltb-2]

I'd support the license if they also charged hummer and large engine premiums.
Hummer premiums? How come? Whatz next? :eek:

[wagathon]

Would it really make you feel better if the government simply said, e.g., "We just thought of another way to transfer wealth from the population--that's YOU--to the government. YOU elected the politicians that want this money and already have it spent so ... get over it."

:)

[ckeizer77]

I thought taxes paid for roads? I pay taxes already.

[Allister]

Registration fees don't pay for roads...at least not here in Canada. Municipal taxes do. Highways are paid for by provincial and federal taxes, the revenue of which is partially garnered from gasoline and other automotive-related taxes, but those routes already exclude bicycles, so cyclists should not have to pay for them. I ride exclusively on municipal roads and I pay property taxes that build and maintain those roads. Considering how much my equal right to my roads is respected and how little of the road I both require and am granted, I pay far more than I should.

With all due respect to blow-hard motorists with the misguided and inaccurate perception that licensing, registration and gas taxes pay for roads in our cities and towns, I suggest they consider how much damage they do to the roads, how much maintenance and replacement of surface and signage is required because of their accidents, how many resources are required when they collide and how much those resources financially impact the community. Our police department commands the largest share of the municipal budget, after all, and the police spend more time and money on HTA enforcement, traffic control and management and other car-related matters than anything else. Petty, imbittered motorists might also consider the overwhelming cost of environmental damage they inflict. If they have any brain at all, they would conclude they don't pay nearly enough and that bicyclists are the last ones on earth who should be paying EXTRA for the privelege of using the roads.

That's all perfectly reasonable, and would probably sway anyone against ever suggesting bike registration, if such proposals were ever based in reason. Sure, they may dress them up with all sorts of reasonable sounding arguments, but at their heart they are nothing but pure petulance - "I have to pay, why don't they, WAAAAAHHH!"