Folding Bikes - 20" offroad

Has anyone swallowed earth on a 20" mtn folder on this forum? I know there are folks that say the wheel size is troublesome off-road, but I'm curious if anyone here has lost teeth because of it. Love the tikit (nothing to say that hasn't been said. Lovely bike and the fold is very clever.) and already thinking about a mountain folder.

Has anyone swallowed earth on a 20" mtn folder on this forum? I know there are folks that say the wheel size is troublesome off-road, but I'm curious if anyone here has lost teeth because of it. Love the tikit (nothing to say that hasn't been said. Lovely bike and the fold is very clever.) and already thinking about a mountain folder.

If you're looking for a 20" folding Mountain bike, This One (http://www.airnimalfoldingbikes.com/M_RhinoWhite.php) is purpose built... I ride a lot on dirt trails/easy mountain runs using a Downtube FS with 8spd hub and Schlumpf Mountain Drive (yielding a 750+% gear range without the dangling bits to catch the brush and limbs).. I know others who get by (and even prefer), by just going with big, aggressive tires on their favorite folder.

I haven't. But, from what I know:

Wheel size per se isn't the problem; look at BMX bikes. The primary issue is frame weakness, in several aspects. The hinge / folding mechanism on most bikes can't take the punishment. Same goes for the handlepost. Plus most folders have a single tube, and thus lack the strength of a diamond tube frame design.

Also, most folders have the wrong geometry for real off-road. Bottom brackets and derailleurs are way too low to do any real off-road.

The only exception I'm aware of is the Pacific Reach Offroad, which is really more a separatable than a folder. Or, if you *really* had the jones, you could put S&S couplers on a steel-frame BMX.

I have been thinking of the same, I plan to make this Otoyo into my MTB

Has anyone swallowed earth on a 20" mtn folder on this forum? I know there are folks that say the wheel size is troublesome off-road, but I'm curious if anyone here has lost teeth because of it. Love the tikit (nothing to say that hasn't been said. Lovely bike and the fold is very clever.) and already thinking about a mountain folder.


I have not yet had a visit to the local maxillofacial surgery from riding a folder off road, but then again, I don't try anything excessive, i.e 2 feet drop-offs.

I simply stuck 20" off-road tyres on my Trek, lowered the pressure and used a 52/16 SS combo (which was too high). I got by, but that's about it.

The Airnimal Rhino is a good bet in the 20" size; Dahon make an off-road folder with larger wheels...

If you're looking for a 20" folding Mountain bike, This One (http://www.airnimalfoldingbikes.com/M_RhinoWhite.php) is purpose built...

That looks mean, but appropriate. I'll see if I can see one up close. Anyone try the BF Llama? No suspension though...

That looks mean, but appropriate. I'll see if I can see one up close. Anyone try the BF Llama? No suspension though...

You can get the BF Gnu. Moreover, there is an Airnimal MTB with 20" wheels.

Has anyone swallowed earth on a 20" mtn folder on this forum? I know there are folks that say the wheel size is troublesome off-road, but I'm curious if anyone here has lost teeth because of it. Love the tikit (nothing to say that hasn't been said. Lovely bike and the fold is very clever.) and already thinking about a mountain folder.

I haven't lost teeth with it, but I did find it to be different than riding with larger wheels. A few years ago I spent an hour riding a Burro Bike (http://www.burrobikes.com/) around the offroad test area at Interbike.

It did fine on most things, but had trouble on any lips (up or down). Most of my offroad riding has been without suspension, so it wasn't the lack of suspension that was hurting.

I haven't lost teeth with it, but I did find it to be different than riding with larger wheels. A few years ago I spent an hour riding a Burro Bike (http://www.burrobikes.com/) around the offroad test area at Interbike.

It did fine on most things, but had trouble on any lips (up or down). Most of my offroad riding has been without suspension, so it wasn't the lack of suspension that was hurting.

What the hell is that? ;)

What size wheels are those Alex? 19" ... do they mean erto 406?

-G

What size wheels are those Alex? 19" ... do they mean erto 406?
-GNope, 19" is a unique size used for Observed Trials.

Nope, 19" is a unique size used for Observed Trials.

Jeez ... just what we need.

What are "Observed Trials"?

EDIT: Just skimmed over this site ... http://www.spiffie.com/trials/index.html.

Found something even better ... http://biketrials.com/intro/what.shtml

You can get the BF Gnu. Moreover, there is an Airnimal MTB with 20" wheels.

I don't know... For $3000 I can get a hell of a non-folding mountain bike that will hop right over the Airnimal and keep going. I think perhaps in this department the fold is not important enough to me to pay the premium for it.

In 1989 I bought an early Alex Moulton ATB [All Terrain Bicycle] which used 20 in/406 tires and rims. Using 2.1inch wide tires off road biking was fun because of the front and rear suspension. The frame was constructed like a bridge with many small diameter tubes intersecting. It really was designed for off road riding. It had strength to spare.

My friends would stop to watch me cross the deep water crossings- mostly underwater pedaling all the way. The smaller wheel size meant that I could not roll over obstacles easily managed by 26 inch wheels. I had to pull up on the handle bars to lift the front wheel over ledges and logs. Once adjusted to this new technique it became automatic. On the first long forty mile back country ride I forgot my gloves but the suspension made them unnecessary.

Unfortunately Moulton stopped making the ATB after two years. Pashley Cycles has been licensed to make the APB- All Purpose Bicycle since the early 1990's.

This is a long way to say that 20 inch/406 wheels work well off road. Give it a try but on a sturdy framed bike.

I don't know... For $3000 I can get a hell of a non-folding mountain bike that will hop right over the Airnimal and keep going. I think perhaps in this department the fold is not important enough to me to pay the premium for it.
+1

There seems to be a huge gap between inexpensive suspension folders (eg Downtube) and ridiculously expensive ones like the Airnimal.

I don't know... For $3000 I can get a hell of a non-folding mountain bike that will hop right over the Airnimal and keep going. I think perhaps in this department the fold is not important enough to me to pay the premium for it.

Sure. No argument with what is important to you. :D

Mind you, I don't even have a MTB. So I really can't judge them well. I would use one for off-road touring as opposed to single-track racing.

Is the Rhino really $3000? :eek:

Sure. No argument with what is important to you. :D

Mind you, I don't even have a MTB. So I really can't judge them well. I would use one for off-road touring as opposed to single-track racing.

Is the Rhino really $3000? :eek:

I know it seems silly to say that after asking, but I had no idea a folding mountain bike would be as much as a really really really really nice mountain bike.

I found the price here. I'm assuming it's representative. The English site shows the price in pounds if you want to do the conversion, but this price likely includes any importation charges:

http://www.electriccyclery.com/catalog/airnimal-rhino-offroad-p-141.html

I haven't lost teeth with it, but I did find it to be different than riding with larger wheels. A few years ago I spent an hour riding a Burro Bike (http://www.burrobikes.com/) around the offroad test area at Interbike.

It did fine on most things, but had trouble on any lips (up or down). Most of my offroad riding has been without suspension, so it wasn't the lack of suspension that was hurting.

These burro things look like a lot of fun... The ski thing is incredible and something I'd love to try out. Wonder how well it works...

Not a folder, but a 20" off-road capable toy.

I know it seems silly to say that after asking, but I had no idea a folding mountain bike would be as much as a really really really really nice mountain bike.

I found the price here. I'm assuming it's representative. The English site shows the price in pounds if you want to do the conversion, but this price likely includes any importation charges:

http://www.electriccyclery.com/catalog/airnimal-rhino-offroad-p-141.html

That does seem pretty steep. I just checked to see whether it had something to do with the exchange rate but it appears not ... http://www.bikefold.com/airnimal_rhino_bike.htm

-G

That does seem pretty steep. I just checked to see whether it had something to do with the exchange rate but it appears not ... http://www.bikefold.com/airnimal_rhino_bike.htm

-G

Especially since there's no way it's better than this bike:

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=33113

which also happens to be a few hundred cheaper...

Especially since there's no way it's better than this bike:

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=33113

which also happens to be a few hundred cheaper...

I'm pretty sure it is better. It's just a matter of defining what a bike needs to do to be better for the application. I'm positive the Airnimal packs faster and smaller than that specialized ...

Unless you are VERY technical and extremely fit, you need nothing more than a Stumjumper.


Keep the change for dates with the chicks. The Stumpjumper is a magnet!

My brompton folds smaller, though...

I'm pretty sure it is better. It's just a matter of defining what a bike needs to do to be better for the application. I'm positive the Airnimal packs faster and smaller than that specialized ...

Understood. I mean if the fold is not priority, which in my case it is not, there are very nice bikes from all the major manufacturers (Specialized, Gary Fisher, Trek...) that could very likely match or outperform the Airnimal bike off-road at the same cost or less. I'd be more likely to try out the small Canondale or the Burro bike for a 20" experience and save a few thousand. I have a tikit that fills the folded role since any travel with bikes wouldn't tend to include off-road adventure. The tikit price is also a lot more reasonable. I do want to try 20" wheels off-road just to satisfy curiousity, just not this $3000 Airnimal contraption because I think the price is unreasonable. Others may find the travel aspect worth the cash.

I know it seems silly to say that after asking, but I had no idea a folding mountain bike would be as much as a really really really really nice mountain bike.

Why are you surprised? Assuming equivalent materials, workmanship, etc, why would incorporating a folding hinge make things any cheaper? The extra design effort, additional metalwork, and limited audience all cost more.

Why are you surprised? Assuming equivalent materials, workmanship, etc, why would incorporating a folding hinge make things any cheaper? The extra design effort, additional metalwork, and limited audience all cost more.

Cheaper, no. Exorbidant, didn't see that coming. Like Jur says, Downtube applies the same principles for far less. I just don't see this bike as a good use of money. Why are you surprised I don't want to pay that much for this bike?

Cheaper, no. Exorbidant, didn't see that coming. Like Jur says, Downtube applies the same principles for far less. I just don't see this bike as a good use of money. Why are you surprised I don't want to pay that much for this bike?

And Walmart applies the same principles as Specialized, Gary Fisher, Trek, etc for far less. Not that I don't think Downtube makes better quality bikes than Walmart, but there's no denying that their frames, while well made, can be a bit on the heavy side and their componentry downright mediocre.

I'm not surprised at all that you wouldn't want to pay that much for the Airnimal. I wouldn't either. However, I can understand why someone might find it worthwhile. Space can be very expensive. Not just in the hull of an airplane, but even on the ground secure parking/storage can be quite exorbitant.

And Walmart applies the same principles as Specialized, Gary Fisher, Trek, etc for far less. Not that I don't think Downtube makes better quality bikes than Walmart, but there's no denying that their frames, while well made, can be a bit on the heavy side and their componentry downright mediocre.

I'm not surprised at all that you wouldn't want to pay that much for the Airnimal. I wouldn't either. However, I can understand why someone might find it worthwhile. Space can be very expensive. Not just in the hull of an airplane, but even on the ground secure parking/storage can be quite exorbitant.

You're right. Some may think it's worth it. I have flown with a full-size mountain before and it wasn't that bad... $120 I think and I picked up the bike box from UPS or FedEx (don't remember). But, finding a spot for it once you're there is a challenge. Still for a few thousand you could rent a storage locker at $30-$50 a month for quite a while.

I can't wait to test my Twenty on some less than smooth surfaces.

One option with the Airnimal is you can buy it frame only then build it to your own spec.
Here's mine, built from a mix of campag road and various MTB bits:



Offroad: on dirt tracks there are no issues, in fact it's a superb ride.
As has already been pointed out on really rough unpredictable surfaces, e.g. rocks hidden under snow, you are more liable to stall than a 26" bike.

It is KILLING me that I can't buy Hooligans in the USA. You can't imagine how badly I want a couple of these. CannondaleUSA says they might add them to the 2009 lineup...

In the meantime... STOP TORMENTING ME! :D


Not a folder, but a 20" off-road capable toy.