Advocacy & Safety - How big a problem are motorists in your road cycling?

How big a problem are motorists in your road cycling?

The ones causing problems or the ones who arent ?

Practically none, I've been lucky I guess, or this site skews reality under a steamroller. Maybe a few minor things but nothing even worth mentioning.

hmm , without any motorists running interference bicycling would definetly be more enjoyable.

are they problems? just the problem ones. See them every week, pretty much. The bicycling author and experienced bike messenger Robert Hurst averages motorist 'trouble' about once every eight hours on average.

hmm , without any motorists running interference bicycling would definetly be more enjoyable.

are they problems? just the problem ones. See them every week, pretty much. The bicycling author and experienced bike messenger Robert Hurst averages motorist 'trouble' about once every eight hours on average.

Not biased in the least.... except for they're known for their horribly dangerous riding.

Not a big issue. Share the road. I tend to give a little and they tend to do the same.

I've never gotten hassled by motorists on my rides. Then again, I ride mostly in an area where you can ride 2-3 abreast without a problem, and in a college town where bikes abound. I guess it also helps that I'm a tiny girl on a tiny folder. The only beeps and comments I've gotten are of the "hello," "hey baby," or "what bike is that?" type.

Well, I'm a pedestrian, cyclist, car driver, van driver, one-time motorcyclist.

Too many people, aided and abetted by the right-wing gutter press, get the misguided notion that all of the above classes of road user are mutually exclusive and regard each other practically as alien species.

The reality is that most of us are all or most of the above at some time or other.

My answer to whatever the problem is, is to encourage as many backsides on saddles as possible, and get them to discover the joys of cycling for themselves.

Bikes get flats. Roads have cars. That's life. No problem, no choice.
Life is what you make it.

Maybe that's what HH is thinking? Just like..... What else can you learn to avoid an accident? as opposed to, "There was nothing I could do." That's all I think HH is trying to say when he asks about accidents.
Nothing to be defensive about. .............. *Asks Serge to borrow flame suit!*

Bikes get flats. Roads have cars. That's life. No problem, no choice.
Life is what you make it.

Maybe that's what HH is thinking? Just like..... What else can you learn to avoid an accident? as opposed to, "There was nothing I could do." That's all I think HH is trying to say when he asks about accidents.
Nothing to be defensive about. .............. *Asks Serge to borrow flame suit!*
Exactly! I'm heartened every time someone indicates he understands what I'm trying to convey. Sometimes I start thinking the contrarians actually have a point, but then a post like this shows that they do not. Thank you.

As close to no problem at all as I can imagine. 3 problems total in 18 years of cycling.

Not biased in the least.... except for they're known for their horribly dangerous riding.

actually, strangewill, experienced bike messengers are statistically some of the safest bicyclists on the road today.

I'm NOT a messenger, and I interact with distracted or downright malicious motorists on a weekly basis.

Without motorists, there would be very little 'problem' for bicyclists on the roads. ERGO, motorists ARE the most pressing 'problem' when bicycling.

I think this whole 'problem' language is dishonest and skews this thread to the pedantic few who have dranken the 'vcist' "what problems? koolaid" of curbhugger john forester's road engineering prejudice.

"A significant problem now and then; but doesn't inhibit me."

Actually, I think it's a half-step lower than that. What I would call significant is a situation where I feel my or another road users safety is deliberately jeopardized. This is rare for me, but it does happen on occasion.

Another view on significant circumstances are exemplified by the woman who stopped to chat as I was waiting at a stop sign for her to pass by so I could turn left. I had some plants that had been discarded by the golf course, that I had temporarily potted, on my Burley Flatbed.

"Hi, I see you almost everyday when I leave for work. I'm a nurse up in Tallahassee. Do you live here?" Pointing to the gated community that separates holes 6 & 7 from the rest of the course.

"Hi, no, I live over off Lower Bridge Road. I do maintenance here on the golf course." <"who is this that wants to start a conversation in the middle of an intersection?">

"Wow, how far is that?"

"From here, it's about 7 miles."

"I see you all the time. Are you the man who tows the canoe with a bicycle?"

"Yes, that's me." <"right now I'm just a man who wants to go home from work.">

"You must be in great shape from riding all the time."
This conversation went on a little longer.

This kind of thing also sometimes happens when I have the canoe in tow and stop at a convenience store.

Normally something shouted from a motor vehicle comes across as unintelligible gibberish. Unlike the time I had the canoe in tow and clearly heard, "DUDE! YOU ROCK!!"

And I never have been able to understand how people who never ride, think my riding is a great thing. At least that's what they tell me. Haven't been able to wrap my mind around; if my riding is so great, why aren't they doing it?

But any of these positive reinforcers are for more significant than some jerk that just wants to prove they're a jerk so they can use their car to run away. :)

Bikes get flats. Roads have cars. That's life. No problem, no choice.
Life is what you make it.

Maybe that's what HH is thinking? Just like..... What else can you learn to avoid an accident? as opposed to, "There was nothing I could do." That's all I think HH is trying to say when he asks about accidents.
Nothing to be defensive about. .............. *Asks Serge to borrow flame suit!*

I think nearly all motor vehicle/bicycle crashes can be avoided by the cyclist, even when the motorist is solely at fault, if the situation/circumstances leading up to the crash are clearly understood.

Exactly! I'm heartened every time someone indicates he understands what I'm trying to convey. Sometimes I start thinking the contrarians actually have a point, but then a post like this shows that they do not. Thank you.

Mate, I do that after every crash or dodgy interaction I have with a motorist. Sometimes, and this may shock you, I come to the considered conclusion that there was, indeed, nothing I could've done. That's what you fail to ever, ever understand.

If we're talking about thick-headedness, take a look at your own behaviour, Serge. It's not because I have an 'anti-motorist chip on my shoulder', or 'ride childishly', just the simple fact that no matter how good my attitude it, there's plenty of others out there with ****ty attitides, and it's ineveitable that I'll encounter them from time to time. You even admit that in similar situations you've had yourself, but even then, when someone else says it, you start grilling them about what they could've done differently, and deny any statements that nothing could've been done outright.

<waits for yet another "I never said..." post :rolleyes:>

I think nearly all motor vehicle/bicycle crashes can be avoided by the cyclist, even when the motorist is solely at fault, if the situation/circumstances leading up to the crash are clearly understood.

'Nearly all' being the operative term there.

And I never have been able to understand how people who never ride, think my riding is a great thing. At least that's what they tell me. Haven't been able to wrap my mind around; if my riding is so great, why aren't they doing it?


I think it's great that some people care for the elderly and disabled, but I'm not prepared to do it myself.

I'm guessing they think it's great that you are doing it, but not great enough for them to do it themselves.

'Nearly all' being the operative term there.

Yes, while there is no way to plan for every possible contingency, most of the risks can be mitigated. But to do that we need all the details of a crash or close call.

On the Northside of Chicago (Lincoln Park / Lakeview), it's horrible. Especially on the weekend nights. We have bike lanes, but taxis and other cars routinely pull into them to pick people up. They do so without warning so frequently that if I'm riding next to one, I nearly get squished between them and parked cars every effing time. I've taken to kicking fenders to wake the drivers up. It seems to work.

People also NEVER look out their driver door when hopping out. That really drives me nuts because if I were larger than a bike, I could easily snap their leg and door off in one fell swoop. Instead, I'm in danger of getting doored unless I stay sharp. It's also pretty bad when they are driving in the bike lane looking for parking spots at like 5 mph.

A lot of these idiots also try turning around in the middle of the street blocking my path and that of the cars on both sides of the road. I usually just maneuver around and make them wait an additional 1.5 seconds, but it sure pisses them off when I can squeeze between places they can't.

I barely tip cab drivers any more because I know eventually one of them is eventually going to nail me. The only things I can do are stay extremely sharp on these roads, wear my helmet, and try to stay in the car lane as much as possible. The bike lanes are dangerous because drivers don't respect them.

I think nearly all motor vehicle/bicycle crashes can be avoided by the cyclist, even when the motorist is solely at fault, if the situation/circumstances leading up to the crash are clearly understood.

'Nearly all' being the operative term there.
Of course. And I've never said anything contrary to that. Note how everything I've been saying falls out logically from this premise.

The implications of that are that only a small percentage of the crashes resulting in 40,000 U.S. deaths per year are not preventable/avoidable by either one of the parties involved, and that only a small percentage of the 800 cyclist deaths per year are not preventable/avoidable by the cyclist.

This is why I think the cycling community should focus on improving cyclist behavior - that's where all the low-lying fruit lies, especially all of the fruit that's in our orchard. All of the fruit with respect to improving driver behavior is in another orchard where we can't pick at all, yet we seem to spend all of our time and energy yelling at "them" to pick up their fruit (without regard to whether it's low lying or not), and ignoring all of the fruit picking (advocating for and providing cyclist education in order to improve cyclist behavior) in our own orchard.

On the Northside of Chicago (Lincoln Park / Lakeview), it's horrible. Especially on the weekend nights. We have bike lanes, but taxis and other cars routinely pull into them to pick people up. They do so without warning so frequently that if I'm riding next to one, I nearly get squished between them and parked cars every effing time. I've taken to kicking fenders to wake the drivers up. It seems to work.

People also NEVER look out their driver door when hopping out. That really drives me nuts because if I were larger than a bike, I could easily snap their leg and door off in one fell swoop. Instead, I'm in danger of getting doored unless I stay sharp. It's also pretty bad when they are driving in the bike lane looking for parking spots at like 5 mph.
A good habit to develop is to stay out of door zones (the space into which doors might open), period. That means tracking no closer than about 5 feet from the cars.



A lot of these idiots also try turning around in the middle of the street blocking my path and that of the cars on both sides of the road. I usually just maneuver around and make them wait an additional 1.5 seconds, but it sure pisses them off when I can squeeze between places they can't.

I barely tip cab drivers any more because I know eventually one of them is eventually going to nail me. The only things I can do are stay extremely sharp on these roads, wear my helmet, and try to stay in the car lane as much as possible. The bike lanes are dangerous because drivers don't respect them.
Now that's experience talking.

curhugger .

?????He hugs dogs? What on earth does that mean? Have you come up with another cute little name???

Gene, how did you vote in this poll?

In Miami, the road rage capital of the US, at least one car a week f@cks with me. Buzz pass, "get the f@ck off the road", runs me down and blares the horn while driving a few feet away from my rear wheel, etc, etc.

I try to avoid traffic as much as possible and will not do certain rides at certain times because of the danger.

How big a problem are motorists in your road cycling?Good job on this poll; I am very interested in the outcome.

...as for me, as Air said it to me best, "you hate traffic like I hate headwinds!"

I know it's unrealistic to expect a separation between cars and cyclists for most commuters and recreational riders here; in fact, there is such experience here that for most, it does not matter.

Riding in other parts of the country where there are actual bike lanes where people actually don't park in, block them, drive in them and then door people in would let me change my choice to a less extreme choice, but I have to base it on my experiences in NYC.

I voted "not a problem at all" because it's closer than that than to "a minor problem now and then..." My past 4 days of commuting have yielded 2 happy horn tooters, 1 very excited woman offering words of encouragement when I pulled right as the lane widened and waved her by (she was behind me for a little while prior to that), 1 horn honker, and one "these roads are for driving, not cycling" (she was following the horn honker). All the rest of my encounters were the normal no-comment type. My usual commute is just encounters of the no-comment type.

Of course. And I've never said ...

Right on cue.

Usually, I have my most trouble with motorists is when I ride a new commute route or haven't used a route in a considerably long time, and the motorists are not accustom to bicyclists on that peticular route. Eventually the motorists get used to me, and the commute route generally settles down to a routine of an angry motorist venting their ire once in a while.

Where I live ... in a very redneck part of the country ... drivers and vehicles are rarely a problem. I could probably count on one hand the number of times I'm honked at or yelled at (in an angry sort of way) during the course of a year.

Most of the time, despite the fact that I'm riding on the wide shoulders in this area, drivers pull way out around me to give me lots of room. And many of them wave at me in a positive fashion. If I happen to stop in a town, and a driver pulls up at the convenience store or grocery store where I am, chances are we'll converse in a pleasant way about the weather, road conditions, how fast (or slow) I'm riding etc., and they'll go off wishing me a good ride.

The situation isn't 100% perfect, but it certainly isn't a problem at all. :)

I think nearly all motor vehicle/bicycle crashes can be avoided by the cyclist, even when the motorist is solely at fault, if the situation/circumstances leading up to the crash are clearly understood.
Tell that to the families of Cece Krone, Larry Mahr, or Ken Kifer.

Riding in other parts of the country where there are actual bike lanes where people actually don't park in, block them, drive in them and then door people in would let me change my choice to a less extreme choice, but I have to base it on my experiences in NYC.

Around here, (Dallas) we have no designated bike lanes at all. We rarely have curbside parking. What we do have is narrow right hand lanes, which really means that we have 8' to 12'* bike lanes on every arterial street! :p It is the ideal road configuration for cyclists in my opinion.

I get honked at about every fifth ride (Hey, it's Texas and I'm wearing Lycra for goodness sakes! :p) but I only felt threatened twice last year in 6,700 miles.

*By actual measurement. Before I measured them I estimated they were much wider.

I haven't had any "real" problems - a few moron teenage yellers, and a guy that pulled out in front of me, necessitating a hard stop. It's nothing compared to my car commute.

I can't relate to a single answer so I voted "other". Sure, I could have voted "A minor problem now and then", but that's only because like most cyclists, I choose where I will or won't ride. Motorists will endanger and/or hassle cyclists more on some roads (and under some conditions) than on others. Anyone who says otherwise either only rides in ideal conditions, or is just lying to themselves.

I also could have voted "By far the biggest problem" because If motorists are not the biggest problem to cyclists, then what is? Nothing else comes close in my mind. But because you added "something MUST be done" I couldn't vote for that either. I accept the roads for what they are, and do what I have to do to keep myself safe.

If more motorists drove like me, Genec, and probably a few others here, then I could easily vote "Not a problem at all", but they don't. The reality of our roads is that most drivers are more concerned with getting there as fast as they can, while talking on the phone, than they are with not getting in a wreck. This includes wrecks with cyclists.

For cyclists that don't have a clue about how to ride safely in traffic, cyclist training is the answer. For most everyone here, motorist training would be MUCH more beneficial.

I would say 30% of my solo rides end up having someone yell at me, often intentionally swerving at me also. Been hit with a mirror, had some guy get right behind me and blast me with is air horn (I know who he is too, but no proof as far as police are concerned).

I rarely ride on busy roads, avoid it if at all possible. My favorite roads are 2 lane, lightly-traveled 40 mph type roads. Even though most lanes are too narrow to share at all (even dangerously), I still have far fewer angry responses if I keep to the right. 99% of cars will still get over to the other lane either way, but if I "take the lane" it really seems to get people mad. Neighborhood roads (30 mph) fare much better, but don't go anywhere.

What I find interesting is that most people who let me know they have a problem with me were with no or little other traffic and I didn't slow them at all. Even happens when I am keeping up with traffic

The Roadies mostly seem to stick to some faster HWY's with big shoulders. Seems like it would really suck with all the noise and the roads to get there are suicidal in my eyes. Anyone who rides where I ride is normally a kid on the sidewalk, a poor immigrant looking person (often riding against traffic and/or on sidewalk) and the odd (rare) hippy-type person (probably closer to what I fit into). The later reports the same thing as me.

One of the hippy types also has a donkey/cart combo. He goes much slower with it, and obviously takes the lane, but says he has never had a problem using it on the same roads he regularly gets hassled on while cycling.

I also could have voted "By far the biggest problem" because If motorists are not the biggest problem to cyclists, then what is? Nothing else comes close in my mind.


Weather. Weather, by far, is the biggest problem to me when I'm cycling.

Next up would probably be lack of services. The towns here are so far apart, and don't necessarily have grocery stores or restaurants, so it is quite conceivable I could be out in the middle of nowhere and be out of water or food, if I'm not very careful.

And then there are mechanical difficulties. These, fortunately, are not that frequent, but they happen. They happen more often than traffic difficulties.

Dogs and other wildlife would also be in there ahead of traffic difficulties.

And physical ailments, such as knee pain or shoulder pain or numb hands happen way more frequently that traffic difficulties.

Traffic wouldn't even make top 5.

I think nearly all motor vehicle/bicycle crashes can be avoided by the cyclist, even when the motorist is solely at fault, if the situation/circumstances leading up to the crash are clearly understood.

Tell that to the families of Cece Krone, Larry Mahr, or Ken Kifer.
Why would you want CommuterRun or anyone else to do that?

The fact that the point that buying lottery tickets is a waste of money would probably sound silly to a 10 million dollar winner does not invalidate the point.

Similarly, the fact that the point that most car-bike crashes can be avoided by the cyclist would be painful and pointless to make to the family of fatal car-bike crash victim does not invalidate the point.

Around here, (Dallas) we have no designated bike lanes at all. We rarely have curbside parking. What we do have is narrow right hand lanes, which really means that we have 8' to 12'* bike lanes on every arterial street! :p It is the ideal road configuration for cyclists in my opinion.

I get honked at about every fifth ride (Hey, it's Texas and I'm wearing Lycra for goodness sakes! :p) but I only felt threatened twice last year in 6,700 miles.

*By actual measurement. Before I measured them I estimated they were much wider.
I agree about the narrow right hand lanes being the ideal road configuration for cyclists.

8' lanes - that's really narrow. Vehicles in CA (like most states I thought) can be up to 8.5' wide, so that's surprising. Aren't city buses and trucks 8.5' wide?

Depends where I am at. In California, harrassment was a significant problem. I normally had wide bike lanes, So I feel I was well within my rights and not in their way. But, maybe once a month I'd get verbally or physically harassed. I recall two ocassions where I could have been hurt or killed. One most definitely tried to push me off the road, by swerving to the right and knocking me down. Witnesses agreed. / In Europe motorists harassment of cyclists is almost unheard of. Yet, the way some Europeans drive, in same areas all near feel intimidated. Cyclists and anyone in close proxity.

Tell that to the families of Cece Krone, Larry Mahr, or Ken Kifer.

Why would I?

Cases in point. Thank you, John.

Around here, (Dallas) we have no designated bike lanes at all. We rarely have curbside parking. What we do have is narrow right hand lanes, which really means that we have 8' to 12'* bike lanes on every arterial street! :p It is the ideal road configuration for cyclists in my opinion.

I get honked at about every fifth ride (Hey, it's Texas and I'm wearing Lycra for goodness sakes! :p) but I only felt threatened twice last year in 6,700 miles.

*By actual measurement. Before I measured them I estimated they were much wider.

I absolutely agree. I think the best bicycle facilities are just what you describe. Narrow multiple lanes give the cyclist the entire right lane, by virtue of the fact that it is too narrow to share, and motorists have another same direction lane in which to pass.

This is an excellent poll and ought to stay up for a few weeks to get a good feel for how bad the situation actually is for this community.

I accept the roads for what they are, and do what I have to do to keep myself safe. ... As do I, but for me, part of "keeping myself safe" is to advocate for enhanced accountability for motorists. We can speak up and make a difference, as MADD and other organizations have.

depends on where you ride. it's worse if you ride on the arterials, better if you ride on the side streets. but some don't have that option.

HH was real interested in my vote here... well I voted "A significant problem now and then; but doesn't inhibit me."

The bottom line is that I can and do go anywhere I want on a bike (in fact I tend to think in terms of bike accesses to get to places in town, rather than freeway accesses)... but I do find the actions of poor and misguided drivers irritating... as it really takes so little effort to do things right.

I take the little extra effort to drive friendly, and bike smart... and I find it quite annoying when others selfishly abuse my rights, and fail to show me the same courtesy.

It takes a bit more effort to do things right... and if we all extended ourselves in this manner, the general environment would be far nicer out there for everybody.

Think globally, act locally. Bike smart, drive friendly. It's your choice.

Wash DC is not bike friendly. Actually,drivers don't like each other any more than bikes,but at least cars have protection from other cars.

I'm not going to trade flames,but I think it would be interesting if HH moved to DC,or at least commuted here for a month or so.

Tell that to the families of Cece Krone, Larry Mahr, or Ken Kifer.
Just because you're going to try to do some emotional backstabbing doesn't mean he's wrong. To be exact almost every accident can be avoided if one of the parties was just paying a little more attention (even if it's above the accepted "norm" of observing whats around you), regardless of method of transportation.

The purpose of this poll is for HH to further obfuscate the debate between HH and his urban cycling critics by narrowly defining a certain type of cycling, e.g. ''road cycling", as practiced by weekend recreational riders, and then erroneously extrapolating these results to urban cycling. sorry, but road cycling and urban cycling are two entirely different sets of cycling circumstances with different types of motorist-cyclist interactions.

I voted "not a problem at all" because it's closer than that than to "a minor problem now and then..." My past 4 days of commuting have yielded 2 happy horn tooters, 1 very excited woman offering words of encouragement when I pulled right as the lane widened and waved her by (she was behind me for a little while prior to that), 1 horn honker, and one "these roads are for driving, not cycling" (she was following the horn honker). All the rest of my encounters were the normal no-comment type. My usual commute is just encounters of the no-comment type.

Joe what do you think is the cause or nature of those that give you the "these roads are for driving, not cycling" communications...

Why do you feel they might feel this way?

wait a minute-- in this poll, is road cycling the same as urban cycling or commuting or utility cycling??

Joe what do you think is the cause or nature of those that give you the "these roads are for driving, not cycling" communications...

Why do you feel they might feel this way?

Believe it or not, some people just feel that way, regardless of how you ride your bike, mainly due to their impatience.

It's amazing what you learn just standing around and talking to people, instead of assuming you're some sort of psychologist that can explain how lane positioning can change a person's outlook entirely (assuming thats what the "advocate" types usually rant about here).


wait a minute-- in this poll, is road cycling the same as urban cycling or commuting or utility cycling??
Road == paved surface for driving?

I dunno thats what I figure.

I'd figure that those types of cycling would be subsets of road cycling.