Unsafe Commuters??

RonH

Well fall is here ( :crash: :crash: ) meaning "comfortable" temperatures and I've noticed an increase in the number of bike commuters. Unfortunately most of them do not wear helmets nor do they have any reflective tape on their clothing, backpack, or bike (other than spoke-mounted reflectors). Too often I see them riding recklessly or doing something dangerous.

I hope that someday they'll get hooked on commuting regularly and pick up some safe riding tips and some common sense.

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Merriwether

What? No helmets!!?? The b*stards! I'm getting angry just thinking about it...

closetbiker

Originally posted by RonH
I've noticed an increase in the number of bike commuters ... often I see them riding recklessly or doing something dangerous.

I hope that someday they'll... pick up some safe riding tips and some common sense.

as long as drivers drive safe and cyclists ride safely, we'll all be fine.

;) (it's as simple as that)

mrfix

i also see many of the commuters you speak of riding on the wrong side of the street. they are a hazard to us as well as everyone else. They give us all a bad reputation.

caloso

Originally posted by mrfix
i also see many of the commuters you speak of riding on the wrong side of the street. they are a hazard to us as well as everyone else. They give us all a bad reputation.

For awhile I was yelling at these Darwin Award nominees. Now I just keep pedaling. I've decided to adopt a policy of attraction, not promotion, and I'll just set a good example which they are free to emulate or disregard.

Idiots.

Pete Clark

Unfortunately, bikes are widely considered "toys" in the US. So many of us get no usable safety instruction on how to operate a bicycle as a vehicle. Hence, our lack of lights, helmets, proper handling on the road in traffic, etc., etc.

No wonder cycling gets a bad rap for being, "dangerous."

"Oh, I was travelling against traffic (in the gutter, of course) so I could be safer and see cars coming in case I had to get out of the way. I crashed into the curb--I'll never go out there again, there are too many idiots on the road!"

Chris L

Originally posted by mrfix
i also see many of the commuters you speak of riding on the wrong side of the street. they are a hazard to us as well as everyone else. They give us all a bad reputation.

Why does this "bad reputation" thing keep coming up? I've posed these questions before and I'll pose them again:

1. Why is it only minority groups (such as cyclists, although there are plenty of other examples) who get the old "you are responsible for what others in that group do"? I mean, let's be honest here, does anyone ever lecture a driver running a red light (something they do frequently around here) about "giving all drivers a bad name?". If not, can someone explain to me why cyclists should put up with it?

2. For those who are going to say "but it happens anyway" in response to point 1, can I just ask why we should really care? Think about this, if a driver can't tell the difference between a law-abiding cyclist such as myself and a law-breaking cyclist, is there opinion really worth considering? They've basically demonstrated that they either lack any knowledge of the road rules themselves, or lack the basic visual and mental comprehension skills to distinguish between cyclists. Either way, I won't be losing any sleep over their opinion.

By all means, have a whinge about having to take evasive action to avoid these idiots. I agree, that is a pain in the backside, but spare me the old "they give us all a bad name" crap. Frankly, I couldn't care what someone I have no intention of impressing thinks of my name.

Chris L

Originally posted by Pete Clark
Unfortunately, bikes are widely considered "toys" in the US. So many of us get no usable safety instruction on how to operate a bicycle as a vehicle. Hence, our lack of lights, helmets, proper handling on the road in traffic, etc., etc.

No wonder cycling gets a bad rap for being, "dangerous."

Again, I have to ask the question of why there is no education for cyclists. Is it because there just aren't enough cyclists killed each year to justify it? While we're asking that question, we might also ask ourselves why things such as helmets and lights don't come standard with a bike. I mean, is there anywhere in the world where it's even possible to buy a car that does not come fitted with seatbelts and lights as standard?

The bicycle industry needs some new marketers methinks.

ngateguy

Originally posted by Pete Clark
"Oh, I was travelling against traffic (in the gutter, of course) so I could be safer and see cars coming in case I had to get out of the way. I crashed into the curb--I'll never go out there again, there are too many idiots on the road!"

It might not really be a bad thing that they aren't going to ride in the street again. People like that shouldn't be allowed to. I have a theroy that those people who pull out of driveways with out looking or generaly drive around with there heads up ther *****es are the ones you see riding bikes the wrong way down the stree, running red lights, and generally ignaring all traffic laws and safety rules.

John E

Chris L

When I encounter a wrong-way cyclist head-on, I try to force him/her uncomfortably close to the curb, while saying, "Wrong way!" Because these clowns can endanger lawful vehicular cyclists significantly, and because law enforcement rarely reprimands them, it is up to the rest of us to educate them.

Again, why is it up to us? Law enforcement (around here at least) rarely reprimands drivers who speed or run red lights, yet I don't see too many people lining up to educate them. Sure, wrong way cyclists are a pain in the butt, but if you handle the situation correctly and calmly they're highly unlikely to cause any significant issues. I say, let Darwinism take care of them.

LittleBigMan

When I encounter a wrong-way cyclist head-on, I try to force him/her uncomfortably close to the curb, while saying, "Wrong way!" Because these clowns can endanger lawful vehicular cyclists significantly, and because law enforcement rarely reprimands them, it is up to the rest of us to educate them.

What's worse than a wrong-way cyclist? An unlit wrong-way cyclist at night!
John, I had read about a female cyclist who was actually killed in a head-on collision with an unlit, wrong-way cyclist at night.

randya

I'm with Chris on this, if the media wants to generalize from a few idiots to all cyclists, who gives a crap? If you ride safely, and so do our buddies, that's the best you can do. No reason to lose sleep or agonize over some know-nothing's opinion. Remember what the say about opinions--like A-holes, everyone's got one....No one is saying in the media that all drivers are ******s because X percent speed / run lights / whatever. I agree legal lights should be standard on all new bikes; I also strongly recommend a rear view mirror; helmets also recommended but optional.

mrfix

"who gives a crap" Well, nobody untill a really aggravated motorist intentionally opens his car door into an oncomming cyclist because he just finished dealing with the guy going the wrong way in front of him. As far as the bad wrap thing goes I don't think I was clear as to what I meant. Personnally I don't give two SH**s what anyone thinks at any time, We have to ride out there every morning with a bunch of impatient motorist that would rather we not be there. The guy on the bike going the wrong way, getting in the way of the legal cyclist and the motorist and holding his line no matter what, causing you to go out in the lane to avoid hitting him is the cause of a lot of ill feeling toward us on bicycles and he is making our accepance much more difficult.

closetbiker

Again, I have to ask the question of why there is no education for cyclists.

In my area, we have extensive education for cyclists.

Police programs for elementary school kids, community group courses, optional training for adults (that is being attempted to be avalible in high school for kids), drivers examination tests includes cycling questions, local law enforcement bike squads, organized advocacy groups promoting safe cycling, but we still get the same amount of bozo's doing the same stupid things on their bikes that they have been doing even before all the educational effort has been made these last 20 years.

Now there have been many cyclists that have benefited from this education and they do ride properly, it's just that there is a large group of people that will not believe that cycling is something that has a place on the roads with cars. If bikes don't belong, therefore, no rules apply to them.

It's a cultural thing. Bozo's don't believe bikes belong on the road and act accordingly. To themselves, they're just cheating (to themselves) a bit by riding a bike on the road. I'm sure these are the same guys who will yell at you to get off the road when you're riding on the right side of the road and to get on the sidewalk.

RonH

In my area, we have extensive education for cyclists.

Now there have been many cyclists that have benefited from this education and they do ride properly
Around here there are many organizations that provide the "opportunity" for cyclists to become educated but they have to ask.

Unfortunately buying a bicycle is like buying a VCR. Many people buy them but VERY FEW learn how to correctly operate them or learn about it's many features.

Educating a cyclist to ride correctly and safely is an even harder trick to pull off. It seems that most cyclists aren't even aware that there are local bike clubs and organizations that can provide the opportunity to learn. :(
Example: I have a neighbor who has been riding for many years and has done bike tours in Ireland and Holland. Yet she was not even aware that the starting point for two weekly group rides is less than half a mile from her house. She was unaware of any bike clubs and organizations right here in Atlanta. (I guess I'm not doing my job. :o )

closetbiker

Unfortunately buying a bicycle is like buying a VCR. Many people buy them but VERY FEW learn how to correctly operate them or learn about it's many features.

Educating a cyclist to ride correctly and safely is an even harder trick to pull off.

But this is my point. If they have a drivers licence, they already know how to ride the bike properly. They follow the same rules.

Cultural bias says roads are for cars. In Europe, bikes are part of the culture and they have less problems with cycling because they are an accepted part of transportation and are respected as such. In North America, there are more conflicts because many don't accept bikes as part of the transportation system.

Didn't we have a thread, not so long ago, about how one of the most effective ways to make cycling safer was to have more cyclists on the road? I've always thought this because we become more "normal" and drivers learn to deal with us, instead of trying to "eliminate" us.

ngateguy

But this is my point. If they have a drivers licence, they already know how to ride the bike properly. They follow the same rules.

Thats not really true at least not here bikes and the legal rights and responsibilities are not covered in any drivers education programs or in the states information. A lot of people are not aware of what cyclists can and cannot do.

closetbiker

If they have a drivers licence... they follow the same rules.

Thats not really true at least not here ...

I'm not sure I understand.

Are you saying:

a) cyclists that have drivers licences don't know that they have the same rights and responsiblities on a bike as in a car

or,

b) it's not true that a cultural bias keeps motorists acceptance of cyclists on the road at bay?

ngateguy

I was talking about A, B is very true

LittleBigMan

Cultural bias says roads are for cars. In Europe, bikes are part of the culture and they have less problems with cycling because they are an accepted part of transportation and are respected as such. In North America, there are more conflicts because many don't accept bikes as part of the transportation system.

Didn't we have a thread, not so long ago, about how one of the most effective ways to make cycling safer was to have more cyclists on the road? I've always thought this because we become more "normal" and drivers learn to deal with us, instead of trying to "eliminate" us.
Not only that, but also an economic bias. Remember the Golden Rule: "Those that have the gold make the rules."

closetbiker

I was talking about A, B is very true

I'd say A is partly because of B and partly because

Not only that, but also an economic bias

there's a lot of money to be made for the automotive interests if they can keep everyone off of bikes for transportation needs and keep them in cars.

It's good for these narrow interests, but on the whole, it makes more sense to spend money where it works best in the long run. Traffic jams, accidents and pollution costs everyone too much. Good health, smooth movement of citizens and clean air benefits everyone.

These types of riders as metioned at the start of this post need to understand that bikes belong, and benefit everyone IF they are used responsibly (and that means No wrong way riding).

-- I should also add that I think someone who starts out commuting on a bike and partakes of behavior such as riding on the wrong side of the road, without lights, not obeying signs, etc., will learn soon enough that close calls and collisions will happen. If he/she learns and starts to ride properly those close calls and collisions disappear! I believe most, unfortunately, don't make that connection and then pack in cycling because it's "too dangerous"

gonesh9

I have to say, the more I commute, the more safe I have become. My bike is now adorned with several reflective stickers, and I wear a bright yellow jacket. I now stop at every red light and stop sign. At first I didn't want to look TOO safe, because it would mean that cycling is inherently dangerous. I thought it would be a better promotion for bicycling to show that anyone can do it, it's safe, and easy.

Now that I've logged thousands of road miles, I've come to realize that my safety is more important than trying to purvey cycling as a harmless activity. I want to be as visible as I feel necessary because there really are some bad drivers out there. I have also come to realize that it is not my job to make everyone else ride as safely as I do. I do feel that the best I can do is be safe myself, and lead by example. I would be happy to help educate people if they ask me for advice, but I am not responsible for any other cyclist.

randya

Drivers are in need of education on sharing the road safely with other users at least as much, and probably more so, than cyclists are in need of education on cycling 'properly'.

Motorists with an 'I own the road' attitude are the most dangerous people on the road today.

RonH

But this is my point. If they have a drivers licence, they already know how to ride the bike properly. They follow the same rules.
From what I've observed and been told, many people learned to ride a bike as a kid and were taught that a bike should be ridden as though the rider were a pedestrian - facing oncoming traffic.

Most states don't ask questions related to bicycling on the driver's license exam. That's one of the things the local bicycling advocacy groups are working to change.