Road Bike Racing - Softpedaling vs Coasting.

Soft pedaling vs coasting; That pretty much sums it up. I was taught to never coast - to always keep the legs turning over.

The reasons I was given were that the motion kept the muscles contracting slightly and aided in pumping out the lactic acid. Also, it takes less energy to accelerate the legs if they are already in motion, thereby saving energy over a period of hours.

I have no data to back any of these assertions up and lets ignore any power meter issues for the moment.

It has always worked for me so regardless of what I'm told now it's far too late for me to change. It might help the youngin's though.

Smoke em' if ya got em' (That means "Discuss").

Well, all the data that I've seen (mostly from the Wattage forum, and in various training books) advocates pedaling as little as possible.

I soft pedal because it makes me a lot smoother in a paceline or pack.

I soft pedal because it makes me a lot smoother in a paceline or pack.

If I'm alone I just coast, but in a pack I also keep pedaling if I'm in the front. If I'm not in the front, I do whatever keeps me on the wheel in front of me, which usually is just coasting.

In a long RR, I'll coast a lot. I do this to allow myself to stretch out on the bike. If it's very hot, and I'm working too much my calves and quads will start to cramp. Standing on the pedals and dropping my heels seems to help with the calf cramps. Unclipping and shaking out one leg at a time helps with the quads. It also spends less energy, which ideally gives me more gas to attack/sprint.

In a crit, I don't have to worry about cramping up - so I like to keep the legs moving to better respond to surges.

I seem to have the most options on this in between hill repeats. I've tried soft-pedaling the whole way down, and coasting the whole way down. I've never detected a difference performance (like a power fall-off over repeats). Mostly, I mix it up. Some soft pedal with some coasting.

Not much data though.

In a long RR, I'll coast a lot. I do this to allow myself to stretch out on the bike. If it's very hot, and I'm working too much my calves and quads will start to cramp.

That's my point. Soft pedaling will help with cramps (me, too) and stretching is fine. it doesn't count as coasting (IMHO) as it has a specific purpose/benefit.

I still feel soft pedaling is more energy efficient in the long run.

Well, all the data that I've seen (mostly from the Wattage forum, and in various training books) advocates pedaling as little as possible.
Yeah, I mentioned in the OP that I'd like to skip this point for now but since you brought it up...

Coasting is easier to understand if you are looking at it from a pure "power meter" standpoint, but, in the real world, there are other factors that come into play. An analogy to make my point:

The guy who introduced me to my wife was a major league pitcher in another life. Now he is a scout for the Cubs. One day at the batting cages he suggested that I rock my bat back and forth because it is easier to accelerate the bat if it is already moving as opposed to holding it completely still.

I was told, years ago, that it was more energy efficient to accelerated the legs if they were already turning over. What my baseball friend told me seemed to support this.

So if coasting and soft pedaling consume the same overall amount of energy to produce equal wattage yet soft pedaling yields additional performance benefits, wouldn't soft pedaling be the preferential technique?

Again, I have no data to back up my assertions. I'd like to see some, either way.

There are times for each. You should be able to feel when each is appropriate. I currently lack the motivation and ability to describe how.

In a paceline or pack the act of coasting does a couple of things.
1) It's like brake lights to the people behind you. They see you coast and they assume you're hitting your brakes. Mostly this is an involuntary reaction that is quickly corrected but passes back through the line for about 5 people creating gaps.
2) You slow a little. The amount of power applied in softpedaling goes somewhere. If you remove that power you will slow down and if the person behind you will notice.

Either way, coaster cause problems in pacelines. If all you are concerned about is your own energy expenditure then by all means coast- but don't be surprised if people get angry at you. To paraphrase a recent comment by a pro- the easiest thing for a cyclist to do is to go into a ditch.

+1 for previous post: if you coast in a pack when you come up a little fast on someones tail you will end up yoyoing back and forth off the wheel in front of you: too close(coast)-too far(make up distance)- too close- you get the drift

+1 for previous post: if you coast in a pack when you come up a little fast on someones tail you will end up yoyoing back and forth off the wheel in front of you: too close(coast)-too far(make up distance)- too close- you get the drift

While your point is certainly correct, the OP is discussing the physiological implications. He's an equivalent Cat 1 racer in Taiwan. Plenty of pack skilz.

I seem to have the most options on this in between hill repeats. I've tried soft-pedaling the whole way down, and coasting the whole way down. I've never detected a difference performance (like a power fall-off over repeats). Mostly, I mix it up. Some soft pedal with some coasting.

Hill repeats would be a great way to do a comparative test. Good idea.

So you haven't noticed any power fall-off with either, how about your output on the last 1 or 2 repeats? Any difference? Do your legs feel any fresher at the beginning of each repeat if you have soft pedaled the descent? Are the descents long enough to make a difference? How long would your total workout be? We're talking about a very minor difference here where the benefit is accumulative so time is important.

Hill repeats would be a great way to do a comparative test. Good idea.

So you haven't noticed any power fall-off with either, how about your output on the last 1 or 2 repeats? Any difference? Do your legs feel any fresher at the beginning of each repeat if you have soft pedaled the descent? Are the descents long enough to make a difference? How long would your total workout be? We're talking about a very minor difference here where the benefit is accumulative so time is important.

Legs feel better if I just coast. Power progression through the workout seems to be independent of pedaling or not on the descent. These are 5:15 climbs. Descents range from 2:20 to 4:00 depending on pedaling, tucking, and wind (changes during workout). Descent time is actually a big variable. I don't generally take out recovery time between repeats. I hammer to the top, turn around, brake hard at the bottom and get to climbing again. So, having a 1:40 variance in descent time will impact my recovery.

I should try taking 4:00 between the repeats, varying coasting vs. soft pedaling one week to the next, and see if the power and RPE behaves differently.

I actually think that 1:00 intervals would be a good way to test this, but I never just coast between those because I'm not using the same hill over and over. Hill repeats are a unique opportunity to test this.

Legs feel better if I just coast. Power progression through the workout seems to be independent of pedaling or not on the descent. These are 5:15 climbs. Descents range from 2:20 to 4:00 depending on pedaling, tucking, and wind (changes during workout). Descent time is actually a big variable. I don't generally take out recovery time between repeats. I hammer to the top, turn around, brake hard at the bottom and get to climbing again. So, having a 1:40 variance in descent time will impact my recovery.

I should try taking 4:00 between the repeats, varying coasting vs. soft pedaling one week to the next, and see if the power and RPE behaves differently.

I actually think that 1:00 intervals would be a good way to test this, but I never just coast between those because I'm not using the same hill over and over. Hill repeats are a unique opportunity to test this.

Interesting. I wonder how much the duration of the climb/descent would be a factor?

The last few days I've been doing 30-40 minute climbs (high cadence for 10 minute, 20 minute SST, high cadence over the top) and the descents are a solid 15-20 minutes. They're technical so I alternate between being on top of the 12 or 13 and spinning it or soft pedaling. For me, under these conditions, I really feel soft pedaling helps.

Doing 1:00 climbs with shorter rest are a different animal.

I wonder why you feel fresher from coasting? Is this specific to you or would this be true for most people? I'm pretty convinced of what works for me. I wonder if your body adapts to whichever you do and so that is what will work for you or if there is a clear, definitive answer that would apply to all?

The truth damn it! I want the truth!

I've definitely felt fresher after coasting down between repeats. And WR, I putz around at the base of the climb to have an even recovery time between...

Edit, they are 5 minute climb repeats.

pick your preference, not going to go any faster one way or the other..

I suspect that if there is any difference, it will vary between individuals. Some may get more benefit from coasting while others see better results from soft pedaling.

It's not as technical of answer as you're looking for I think.

I've read/heard that by soft pedaling you'll keep blood flow through your legs, so your body keeps working on the lactic acid built up in your legs (even if it's a low amount). If you just coast, your legs stop pumping and loose some priority for blood flow.

I used to just coast and stretch/relax but now I try to soft pedal to keep the blood flowing and replenishing my legs.

Good question/nice thread, even if nothing definitive emerges...

Not that this is necessarily logical (and I believe someone typed something similar):
- when riding on my own, I coast,
- when riding with others/pack, I try to keep the legs turning.
Also, not sure this matters in calibrating people's various responses, I find that spinning high and staying supple is advantageous (for me) most of the time.

One factor in this discussion is the question of what promotes faster recovery between efforts. I have read two papers (one a review, representing this conclusion as the consensus opinion) showing that if there is less than 2-3 minutes between efforts, doing nothing is best. But if the recovery period (be it active or passive) is longer than 3 minutes that light work to maintain blood-flow is best as far as performance in the next effort. So in a simplified situation of one hard efforts followed by a rest period and then another effort, the time frame should decide whether to softpedal or coast.

However, this is far from answering the overarching questions and has limited applicability to actual riding/racing situations.

That said, I softpedal. Was taught that way, and it seems to work fine for me.

I tend to coast down short hills and rollers, but do a mixture of coasting and soft pedaling down anything that takes more than a couple of minutes. To me it seems like my legs stay warmer that way. I only really notice a difference if it is a 15 or 20 minute descent. If I get to the bottom of one of those after coasting the whole thing, my legs feel really tight.

In a pack or paceline, I'll usually try to keep the legs turning over, but this is more a matter modulating my effort and speed instead of accelerating than coasting repeatedly.

One factor in this discussion is the question of what promotes faster recovery between efforts. I have read two papers (one a review, representing this conclusion as the consensus opinion) showing that if there is less than 2-3 minutes between efforts, doing nothing is best. But if the recovery period (be it active or passive) is longer than 3 minutes that light work to maintain blood-flow is best as far as performance in the next effort. So in a simplified situation of one hard efforts followed by a rest period and then another effort, the time frame should decide whether to softpedal or coast.

However, this is far from answering the overarching questions and has limited applicability to actual riding/racing situations.

That said, I softpedal. Was taught that way, and it seems to work fine for me.

This addresses my question fairly well. Earlier, I wondered if time (recovery) was a factor. This may indeed be then case, then.

I think it depends on the kinds of racing/training you do but I do believe it has practical applications.

Do you happen to have links to these reviews?

Soft pedaling vs coasting; That pretty much sums it up. I was taught to never coast - to always keep the legs turning over.

+1 to "It Depends." In a road race, I'd probably be coasting. A crit or TT, I'd be keeping the pawls engaged as much as possible.

Can't find the review article, but here is the first hit I found that supports the idea that active recovery is only helpful in a slightly longer term:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/u2x04k642382w845/

I've heard that pedaling with no resistance, helps the legs recover because your flushing out the lactic acid because your muscles are doing little work, yet the blood is still flowing to them. However, I'm not sure if this applies to softpedaling as well.

I've heard that pedaling with no resistance, helps the legs recover because your flushing out the lactic acid because your muscles are doing little work, yet the blood is still flowing to them. However, I'm not sure if this applies to softpedaling as well.

I've heard that before too, but it never really made much sense to me. If my legs are pumped from a VO2 effort, there's plenty of blood flow there if I'm static or moving.

Actually skeletal muscle contraction is one of the main mechanisms for venous blood return. This is know as the muscle pump.

So Bob is right on.
I do this all the time in racing and find it helpful. Sometimes I'll even reverse freewheel just to keep things moving.

In training I try to pedal as much as possible and strive to minimize any coasting. I'll pedal against my brakes coming to lights, descents, drafts etc. This really helps to maximize training time and keep the average power where I want it.