Road Bike Racing - Question on a solo effort

Let's say I know the course of an up and coming road race pretty well and I know what the average speeds usually are on the course, but I'm not real sure I can sustain the maximum effort to hold that speed continually. Should I try it anyway?

I know I can probably maintain the effort for at least half the race (or a little more), but I'm not sure I can do it for the whole thing. Should I always wait until someone else goes?

I know this may sound like a dumb question. But how does one know when to attack and hold off the competition for a whole race? I've been in races where guys have done this and it worked. I've seen guys who have done it and popped miserably, and get swallowed up with miles to go - never to recover. Has anyone here done this and it worked? What goes off in your head to say, "Yes, this is it. I'm going and F it anyway. No matter what happens."

What goes off in your head to say, "Yes, this is it. I'm going and F it anyway. No matter what happens."

Commit to the cause. You can't halfass a breakaway. I put it out of my mind that it probably won't work, and hit it.

Don't worry about trying to hold average race speeds solo in training - people who can regularly do that are racing in the wrong category...just use power/hr/pe to gauge your effort. In a race situation - you just need to get a feel for your own abilities, try to read a pack, and read other riders. It's still a crap shoot, but I know I'd rather pop having ridden so hard that I'm dizzy, nauseous and halfway conscious than never to have tried at all.

I won a race in a solo break. I was out for about an hour and 20 minutes. it was a 6 lap race of ~9 or so miles each. The course was really windy and had really steep, short, rolling hills. My teammate attacked about a half a lap in, and was being reeled in during a really bad headwind section about halfway through the third lap and popped. He was finally caught as we made a 90 degree right turn. I attacked into the crosswind right after my teammate came back and stayed away for the rest of the race. Thats the only race I've ever won.

I'll start by saying up front, I've never been successful in holding off the field during a long or any solo breakaway, I'm just not cut from that cloth, but I've tried lots.

I dont think there's a cut and dry answer to your question. Every race plays out differently. Early moves usually dont work unless they have a well represented team(s) in them and strong riders driving it, but sometimes they do. At the Cat 3/4 level of racing, in my observation, it isnt the 1st move that sticks, nor is it typically the 2nd, 3rd, or whatever move, it's the one that happens after the field has been stretched a few times, people are gasping/starting to look around, and someone from a bigger better represented team goes.

These are the answers I need.

Going hard in a race and going hard by yourself on a training ride are two different things. Try it in a group ride sometime....I dunno, for me I've found I can push much harder and longer when I have competition around me versus just a hard ride by myself. Just get a really good jump, otherwise you'll just be towing the entire field behind you.

Going hard in a race and going hard by yourself on a training ride are two different things. Try it in a group ride sometime....I dunno, for me I've found I can push much harder and longer when I have competition around me versus just a hard ride by myself. Just get a really good jump, otherwise you'll just be towing the entire field behind you.

+1

How many times have I tried to attack off the front of the pack, only to look back and realise that all I've managed to do is increase the pace of the bunch by 3-4 mph :rolleyes:

If you're going to go, then GO. After about 30 seconds, take a quick glance back. If you have a gap, then keep going; if not, then ease up, because you're not going to get away.

Are you telegraphing your intentions for this Sat. in Sanford?

Are you telegraphing your intentions for this Sat. in Sanford?

No. By all means no.

The only two times I've been successful with a breakaway (sprinter's profile), I collaborated with a friend. I initiated, he came with me, and we worked together. Try to set up your pairing so one of you has a decent 1-minute jump, so you can get away without completely burying yourselves (then you bury yourselves ;)).

This year I'm hoping I've got the FTP to make something stick sometime.

Going hard in a race and going hard by yourself on a training ride are two different things. Try it in a group ride sometime....I dunno, for me I've found I can push much harder and longer when I have competition around me versus just a hard ride by myself. Just get a really good jump, otherwise you'll just be towing the entire field behind you.

I have done that too.

When I looked back, it seemed like we actually picked up extra riders. Totally sucked it and blew up magnificently.

When you attack, friggin ATTACK. Jump from a couple wheels back and HIT IT. Don't mistake ATTACKING with lifting the pace. One is hard and heavy, the other slow and gradual.

I've won or podiumed several races on solo breaks. Know:

-Few solo breaks work
-No solo break will work without absolute full commitment
-No solo break will work if you don't have TT depth
-Your field and the horsepower within before trying
-There is nothing like looking back, zipping up, and crossing with hands raised

IMHO if you try 20 of these a season, and one sticks, it's worth it.

Do you have team mates that are willing or able to control the pack for you?

Whenever I've been successful in a break, it's because there are sympathetic riders behind me in the pack :o It's called team work.

I've won or podiumed several races on solo breaks. Know:

-Few solo breaks work
-No solo break will work without absolute full commitment
-No solo break will work if you don't have TT depth
-Your field and the horsepower within before trying
-There is nothing like looking back, zipping up, and crossing with hands raised

IMHO if you try 20 of these a season, and one sticks, it's worth it.

I can only dream... of being on that guy's wheel :)

I guess I've had solo victories before, but I wait until about 100 meters out to launch. No time to zip up :D

Do you have team mates that are willing or able to control the pack for you?

Whenever I've been successful in a break, it's because there are sympathetic riders behind me in the pack :o It's called team work.


Not sure about team mates yet. Most of my team is Cat 3 or better.

Boo, me for being the new kid (uh, old guy).

Not sure about team mates yet. Most of my team is Cat 3 or better.

Boo, me for being the new kid (uh, old guy).

From what I've seen, there are two ways to be successful in the 4's; have team mates, or be talented enough to ride away from everyone. I've found the first method to be more realistic :)

From what I've seen...have team mates, or be talented enough to ride away from everyone.

Once they figure out the latter, it really helps to have the former. If you've shown you're strong enough to stay away the leash tends to tighten, you need to pick your spots more carefully.

Or just keep firing away until something sticks.

Did I mention that few of these work?

From what I've seen, there are two ways to be successful in the 4's; have team mates, or be talented enough to ride away from everyone. I've found the first method to be more realistic :)

Well, to totally embarrass myself, I'm a 5 right now. I'll be a cat 4 within a few more races. That's why I'm going at it hard in a few weeks. I think I have 2 maybe 3 races to move up. I've got 6 scheduled within a month. I want to prove myself by winning something, not just doing a certain number of races.

be gentle :o

I can only dream... of being on that guy's wheel :)

I spent most of last season getting pipped at the line by GWHBNAH, so heck, jump on.


I want to prove myself by winning something, not just doing a certain number of races.

You mean you're not content to sprint for 6th?

Good on ya.

sub, I am a 5 too, and within the next month I have at least 4, if not 7 training "races".

at some of them, I will probably spectacularly explode because I plan to attack off the front just to see if I can. I probably can't, but why not try?

I've won or podiumed several races on solo breaks. Know:

-Few solo breaks work
-No solo break will work without absolute full commitment
-No solo break will work if you don't have TT depth
-Your field and the horsepower within before trying
-There is nothing like looking back, zipping up, and crossing with hands raised

IMHO if you try 20 of these a season, and one sticks, it's worth it.

+1

I can only dream... of being on that guy's wheel :)

I guess I've had solo victories before, but I wait until about 100 meters out to launch. No time to zip up :D

My longest for a win is a little under 1K.:) No zip but did get the hands up, was way clear thru the last turn and got to look back and see my leadout (a notorious yelling BF poster) doing the same. Get goosebumps thinkin about it.

I don't think there is a cerebral way around this question, its a gut feel kind of thing. If you think you got it that day go for it. What have you got to loose???

nice thread.

It sounds like the perfect time to try your breakaway tactics, SUB. Hit it hard and keep scraping bottom.

My advice: Read Krabbe's "The Rider" , highlight your favorite passages and tape the most inspiring one to your handlebars... that's worth at least 10 watts!!

good luck.


-L

I won one of my races solo off the front last year. It was on the last lap of 7km laps, just after a climb going into a really twisty descent. I took off to bridge to another attacker, only to find him gasping, so I attacked off him and they never caught me. One could descend faster than the 15 or so folks in the final group.

I 'pushed off' the front in two other races of importance to me knowing I was feeling good and wanting to thin the pack. These weren't really attacks and I didn't bury myself to hold off the field. I just simply got off the front and held a good steady tempo sub threshold.

Both were wet/rainy days and large fields were dangerous. I had no teammates for either of these and took 2nd in the first race, and won the second one. There are loads of reasons to get off the front - winning (or helping a teammate win) is part of all of them, but it's not the only reason to get off the front.

Oh.. I also attacked hard in two other races in groups of 7-8 riders only to blow up nicely and come in 7th and 8th. Basically to echo RacerEx, know your field and know what you've got in you. The basic strengths are "go from 3-5 minutes out," "go from 20+ minutes out (TT style)," or plan on sprinting. Each of them are a gamble at the end of the day - just seems the further out you attack from, the more folks will see if the gamble didn't work. But it's fun to attack :)

So I wonder what the longest successful breakaway people have done here?

I've been in winning breaks from 26-28 miles out, and although I wasn't part of it saw a 2 man, 50 mile break in a 3/4 race last year.

Attack and try and catch the pack not paying attention. Making a break stick is more luck than power, if the pack wants to bring you back they will. If you can get teammates to help great, but if two or three teams want to bring you back your done. If you get away and win though enjoy it because it usually will only happen once and everyone remembers you.

Make your attack count. You have to put the gap in.

Don't look back once you have put the gap in. You loose seconds doing it. Concentrate on your effort, not what is going on behind you.

Don't hold back once you are out there. Its all or nothing.

A teammate went solo for 42 of 44 miles in a collegiate C's race last year. From what I heard, he attacked and nobody was remotely interested in chasing him down. I think he won by about 10 minutes. He didn't have amazing fitness or anything, the field just let him go.

I have a teammate who attacked early and won in a Collegiate B crit last year. It was a two-man breakaway, but must have felt like a solo bc his co-attacker took no pulls whatsoever after the halfway point. Fortunately said co-attacker was from a very strong team. Anyway it was remarkable because my teammate is not the TT-type at all, much more of a climber-- he just went all-out and got lucky.

Rule #1- You can't have any fear. Don't think about the distance to the finish, how much its going to hurt, or what happens if you get caught.

Many years ago I was in the winning break (4 then 3 then 2 riders) that stayed away for 98km. I had team mates working for me and I left nothing in the tank. I finished 2nd after towing my breakaway partner for several kms and having him jump around me for the win. A-hole.

Two years ago I was in a 5 man break that stayed away for 60km. It was windy as all get out and I swore, after each pull, that I was about to get dropped. Because of a team mates habitual lateness, I didn't get a chance to eat enough and ran out of juice about 10km out. My breakaway partners spotted it and started to attack me. Bastages. I got 4th.

Last year I did a solo break that was about 40km in heavy rain and wind. It was technically longer but I caught the race in front of mine and jumped in for the last lap. That one I won.

Give it a go. It can really help down the line to know what kind of effort is actually involved. When you go, it HAS TO BE 100%. Jump and stay on top of it for a few minutes. Then settle and recover slightly. Once your HR is back down to a sustainable level meter your effort so you can go the distance. This is a hard skill to master. You need to try it sometime so why not now?

Many years ago I was in the winning break (4 then 3 then 2 riders) that stayed away for 98km. I had team mates working for me and I left nothing in the tank. I finished 2nd after towing my breakaway partner for several kms and having him jump around me for the win. A-hole.

Two years ago I was in a 5 man break that stayed away for 60km. It was windy as all get out and I swore, after each pull, that I was about to get dropped. Because of a team mates habitual lateness, I didn't get a chance to eat enough and ran out of juice about 10km out. My breakaway partners spotted it and started to attack me. Bastages. I got 4th.

Last year I did a solo break that was about 40km in heavy rain and wind. It was technically longer but I caught the race in front of mine and jumped in for the last lap. That one I won.

Give it a go. It can really help down the line to know what kind of effort is actually involved. When you go, it HAS TO BE 100%. Jump and stay on top of it for a few minutes. Then settle and recover slightly. Once your HR is back down to a sustainable level meter your effort so you can go the distance. This is a hard skill to master. You need to try it sometime so why not now?

So you can do this? Some of these events have races one right after the next. If I jump and get away, I could catch a race ahead of mine and hold on without getting called out?

So you can do this? Some of these events have races one right after the next. If I jump and get away, I could catch a race ahead of mine and hold on without getting called out?

Not under USCF rules.

3B5. Taking pace or assistance from any outside means is
forbidden, including holding on to a motor vehicle or taking
pace from riders in a different race that is concurrently on the
same course [relegation or disqualification].

Not under USCF rules.

Hmmm. So you basically ride alone? Either behind the next group or make your way around them as well - holding an adequate cushion?

...or just let a gap open a couple hundred meters before the finish and pray the officials don't notice.

Awesome thread guy's. Wish I had something constructive to add. If anyone has any questions about going to soon or pulling the pack around so you can look good in the pictures than ask away :)

So you can do this? Some of these events have races one right after the next. If I jump and get away, I could catch a race ahead of mine and hold on without getting called out?

You can't do this in NA. When I did it I caught the race officials out a bit. Since there were 2 races on the course at the same time they were spread a bit thin. Also it was raining really hard. Think Tropics. Once I went around the follow car and jumped into the middle of the bunch they just couldn't be bothered to fish me out again.

I wasn't even listed on the results because they thought I had been dropped and had been caught by the other group. Some guys I knew in the first race went to the organizer with a photographer from a magazine who had been on a camera bike and showed him pictures of me going off the front, riding alone and then catching the other race. They changed the results after that.

The whole point was that it can be done. I have even more stories of being in a break that goes nowhere. The thing is it is useful to understand what the effort really feels like, even if you fail (which, in reality, is what will happen most of the time). But if you never try it, never really commit to it, you'll never know the pain of the effort and the satisfaction of pulling it off. I mean, I've done tons of races I barely remember or don't remember at all anymore, but I sure as heck remember the ones that worked.

If you are going to do it, I have always found that the group will let you go if it is early enough. Wait until there have been a few attacks and counter someone else's strong move. The group just might be willing to let you go. If you wait too late in the race a strong attack appears more dangerous and will usually be chased.

Also, in the lower cats, there are lots of dunderheads who will chase for no reason but won't work when it makes sense. You need to catch these guys when they are more inclined to take a breather. So, another good reason to go as a counter move to a string of attacks or accelerations.

In the end you have nothing to lose and experience to gain. Plus, even if you get caught, it might show you what you are really capable of when being chased as opposed to training. You might surprise yourself.

Good luck and commit, commit, commit.

So I wonder what the longest successful breakaway people have done here?

I've been in winning breaks from 26-28 miles out, and although I wasn't part of it saw a 2 man, 50 mile break in a 3/4 race last year.

Let's see, last year I won Michael Murad RR out of a 32-mile two-man break. I won Cape Fear out of a solo eight-mile move. And I failed to win or get second in a 28-mile two-man break at Rock Hill (the two of us got seriously swarmed in the last 20 meters coming to the line- but man, we tried hard for that one).

Snuff, which race was the 50 mile break in?

I did a two man, 58 miler at Hood last year. Got caught then flatted.

Longest Solo was 5 miles out.

26-28 miles with snuffleupagus and two others. Long straight road with a turnaround on at each end. Kinda spooky being able to see the peleton behind ya.

Haha, yeah. It's MUCH easier to pull it off if they can't see you.

Let's see, last year I won Michael Murad RR out of a 32-mile two-man break. I won Cape Fear out of a solo eight-mile move. And I failed to win or get second in a 28-mile two-man break at Rock Hill (the two of us got seriously swarmed in the last 20 meters coming to the line- but man, we tried hard for that one).

Snuff, which race was the 50 mile break in?

The 50 miler was Mark W and Steve N at the Tour de Moore.

esammuli: I was in that race -- yelling at my teammates (and the rest of the pack) to chase. No one would do anything. Some minor paceline disruptions by ucla riders made it impossible to get the rest of the pack to organize. I don't think any of them had a clue what was actually going on.

No better time to attack blindly than the 5's. Upgrade credits happen either way and it's a lot more fun to try to get away.

esammuli: I was in that race -- yelling at my teammates (and the rest of the pack) to chase. No one would do anything. Some minor paceline disruptions by ucla riders made it impossible to get the rest of the pack to organize. I don't think any of them had a clue what was actually going on.

It was fun to watch. The B's were tooling around at the beginning of the race and Jordan passed us. At first the other B's thought it was an attack. It took a while to convince them it was one of our C's way off the front.

My longest for a win is a little under 1K.:) No zip but did get the hands up, was way clear thru the last turn and got to look back and see my leadout (a notorious yelling BF poster) doing the same. Get goosebumps thinkin about it.

I don't think there is a cerebral way around this question, its a gut feel kind of thing. If you think you got it that day go for it. What have you got to loose???

I've heard a rumor...but is it true that you can be disqualified for a victory salute? (In some races).

The 50 miler was Mark W and Steve N at the Tour de Moore.

Yep, that figures. Hey, for a laugh about early breaks, take a look at this gallery (http://velophotos.phanfare.com/album/553909/778225#imageID=37129359). It's last weekend's race at OCS. Skip to the page with pictures 161-200 and run through the pictures from the start of the 1/2/3 race. You'll see a whole bunch of me sitting out in front of the pack- I launched one of your suicide attacks, but nobody joined me. I was up there for almost 15 minutes before a few guys finally came up to me; then we lapped the field. I'd give a better link so you wouldn't have to find the right point in the gallery, but the site doesn't seem to allow it.

I've heard a rumor...but is it true that you can be disqualified for a victory salute? (In some races).

Technically you are required, I believe, to cross the line with both hands on your handlebars. Obviously this isn't strictly enforced, but if you were to salute and cause a dangerous situation as a result, stricter officials might have a problem with it. If you're coming across solo with no one near, they typically don't care.

It also makes it more difficult for the camera to catch your number, so if there's any doubt about that, it's not worth it.