We've been contemplating replacing our 14 year old Burley Duet for some time now. (as you might have ascertained from my posts over the last 1 1/2 years).
We've committed to due Everest Challenge this year in the tandem division, so we're actually going to pull the trigger this time. Definitely going to be a Co-Motion. But several questions remain:
1) Macchiato, or Robusta.
At a team weight of 350 (and hopefully less by time for EC), I'm a little concerned about the stiffness of the open frame design. But the thought of a 24lb pound tandem is quite appealing.
2) Disc v. Caliper Brake.
I'd prefer to go with just calipers for weight, aesthetics and convenience. But I also want the ability to haul the bike down from 60mph quickly and with confidence. I think I'll ge them to build it with the frame mount for a disc, so I'll have the option to add a dis if needed.
3) Campagnolo Record v Dura Ace.
I know the debate back and forth. Are there any unique considerations between the two when it comes to Tandems? I'm leaning toward Dura Ace, in part because the $550 difference seems excessive. (particularly considering the Campagnolo kit, just gets you Record Brifters, derailleurs, and brakes, but uses the same cranksets). However, I like the ability to spec a standard road cassette with a 29 with Campy.
4) The all important question, [SIZE="3"]what two colors for the fade paint job?
Thoughts?
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
1) Robusta... given your team weight. However, as noted in the previous thread on Co-Motion sizing, I would strongly suggest talking with Gary Forman at Co-Motion about your requirements and expectations as this is a significant expenditure. If they're confident that a Macchiatto will meet your expectations, then why not. They are definitely full-on race frames with the shortest chain stays I've ever seen on a non-custom time-trial tandem. Definitely make contact with current owners to ascertain their team weights and impressions of their Macchiatto's... there are a couple here and a few others who frequent the Hobbes list.
2) Good call. Always keep your brake options open by specifying both rim and disc mounts.
3) Use the same shifters that you use on your single bike to keep things simple and intuitive (period).
If you prefer / use Campy, know that Campy shifters and/or rear derailleurs can be used with a Shimano rear derailleur and/or rear hub and cassettes using any one of several configurations. Our tandem has Campy Ergo 10 shifters and rear derailleur and uses a JTek Shiftmate to allow the use of either Shimano 9 (12x32t) or 10 (12x27t) speed cassettes. Others use Campy with a Shimano long-cage rear derailleur and Shimano cassettes via a different Jtek shiftmate or using an alternative cable routing at the rear derailleur's pinch bolt (See Hubbub.com's Website article entitled Shimergo)
4) Any two that don't create an ugly color in the transition / fade zone. In fact, I used silver as an intermediate color on both of our Ericksons to make the color transitions more subtle and to preclude any undesireable colors. I also prefer fades to 'flow' with the frame's geometry and that go from light to dark to mimic the look of an object in motion... a really fast object in motion.
masiman
3) +1 for what you ride on your single.
If you want/have Campy, Chorus is not a bad option. I understand if you are not interested in that route. It has not been economically sound, but I have always waited to save the little bit extra to buy (Super) Record. I would have easily been happy with the step down, but I'm okay with that illogic choice to spend up. Gruppo price difference is ~$400 but I do not know what that difference would be if Crank (and BB?) are not part of the swap. No major differences that I know of between Record and Chorus except weight and finish. I think functional and material differences start showing up at the Centaur and Veloce level (less carbon, der. dumping).
I think the bike will be very nice. Post any updates.
tandem_dude
My wife and I rode a Robusta years ago and are waiting for our Macchiato to be built. I spent some time talking with the guys at Co-Motion before settling on the frame and they steered us towards the Macchiato based on team weight (240 lbs) and riding style. I agree with TandemGeek that you should give Co-Motion a call and see what they recommend. You want to make this purchase once and unless you can spend time on both frames comparing them, their input is going to be invaluable.
As for componentry, we went with Campy because that is what I ride with on my single bike. There was no other factor used here other than I prefer how Campy feels to me. The previous Co-Motion had Shimano which performed very well, but I've since become a Campy convert and wanted the shifting familiarity on both bikes.
As for the brakes, again I agree with TandemGeek, keep your options open. We're going with calipers, but we are also a lighter team. On our mountain bike tandem for years we rode with dual V's and only recently added a disc to the front. I certainly noticed an improvement, but it wouldn't be a problem if we switched back. Something else I also consider when it comes to braking, and that is how does the bike perform. If you are having to bring down your speed so that you crawl through corners because the bike doesn't handle well, get all the braking power you can. If the bike handles well, you'll spend less time on the brakes and be more apt to let it run.
zzzwillzzz
4) Any two that don't create an ugly color in the transition / fade zone. In fact, I used silver as an intermediate color on both of our Ericksons to make the color transitions more subtle and to preclude any undesireable colors. I also prefer fades to 'flow' with the frame's geometry and that go from light to dark to mimic the look of an object in motion... a really fast object in motion.+1 on that. the fades that go from top to bottom as opposed to front to back look really great on a tandem frame. most of the fades use colors next to each other on the color wheel like orange to red or yellow to orange to red or two shades of the same color like light green or blue to a darker shed of the same color.
Hermes
2) Disc v. Caliper Brake.
I'd prefer to go with just calipers for weight, aesthetics and convenience. But I also want the ability to haul the bike down from 60mph quickly and with confidence. I think I'll ge them to build it with the frame mount for a disc, so I'll have the option to add a dis if needed.
Thoughts?
Whichever braking combination you choose, here is our experience in the mountains. We do 5 mile plus technical descents down 7% average grades. On our ride to the coast 140 feet / mile of climbing, we significantly wear a set of front Avid brake pads and a set of rear Winzip pads. I believe that Cgallagh told me that on their descent down Mount Diablo 12 miles 6% technical grade, they wore out a new set of Avid pads. We were 285 pound team at the time and they ~300.
Since you did this ride before, you know the course and are in a better position to judge the braking requirements. If the EC has long technical descents with fast acceleration and hard braking, i recommend taking a set of spare pads with you on day one and be prepared to change them out on the road, if required. On the descents I have done on Mount Hamilton, Mount Diablo and Skyline on my single bike, braking and pad wear were not a problem.
We have several teams in the bay area who could do the EC challenge. I think Smooooth and Sassy and Red Rider and Cgallagh should do it to give you a little competition.;) It should be fun...good luck.
We have several teams in the bay area who could do the EC challenge. I think Smooooth and Sassy and Red Rider and Cgallagh should do it to give you a little competition.;) It should be fun...good luck.
No, No, No. The whole idea is to win by default. Actually our goal is to just finish inside the time limit.
merlinextraligh
1)Went ahead and pulled the trigger on the Robusta. Gary at Co-Motion was very helpful. He steered me away from the Macchiato. At a team weight of 350, we're at the edge for the Macchiato. The fact that one of the owners of Co-Motion races on a Robusta, and that Gary is geting a Robusta, convinced me that we'd likely be happier with the ride of the Robusta, although it was hard to overcome the weight weenie impulse pulling me toward the Macchiato.
2)We are getting it built with tabs for Disc Brake, but only putting calipers on for now.
3) Stayed with the Dura Ace group. That way I can swap cassettes with my other Dura Ace bikes, and the brifters will be familiar. Also I thought $500 for Campy when the Campy build was only a partial group was a bit steep.
As for colors, we're going with a top to bottom fade, Sunrise Pearl to Tangelo Pearl. Should be pretty similar to the one on the Co-Motion web page, except the Tangelo will be a bit brighter than the bittersweet.
specbill
Thanks for this thread and for updating us with your final decision. You stepped up big..congrats!
Photo's when you take delivery??
Good luck with the EC...that is one serious bike ride, I know it is a ways off but a ride report on that one would be way cool.
Bill J.
sch
Sounds like your color scheme is similar to our Macchiato. Suspect your bike weight will come
in around 30#, based on our experience. Not sure why there should be an upcharge of $500
for Campy, at least if you spec'd Chorus, the prices are comparable to DA at list. Personally,
using Campy on one bike (centaur) and Ultegra on two other half bikes (older style grips, not
the newer and nicer 10spd brifter form factors) the Campy tends to crimp my hands as the nubbin
riser on the forward aspect doesn't provide quite enough space for my hand size. I like the
way they shift though and they can be repaired. Jtek completely solves the spacing discrepancy
allowing Shimano/SRAM cassettes. Switching between Campy/Shimano bikes results in a few minutes confusion til I readapt to the difference, no big deal, but occasional mis shifts occur, this would be
more annoying on a tandem. I like the clean appearance of the Campy set up with both cables
routed under the bar tape.