Classic & Vintage - Help with AMAZING Bianchi

Hi guys,

I love this forum and this is my first post. I was wondering if you could help me find out a bit more about my Bianchi Bike frame. I have what I believe is an Edoardo Bianchi X-4. I think it is late 80's or early 90's. EVERYTHING is campagnolo...the crankset, derailleurs, brakes, headset... I think this was probably a very high end bike as the name BIANCHI is engraved in the frame in various places. The frame itself is in excellent condition with the beautiful celeste paintjob. I also think that the entire frame was chromed before they painted it. The tubing says columbus superbutted TSX. It also says that it was made in italy. I took a bunch of photos and posted them on flickr. http://flickr.com/photos/maddiepants/sets/72157603898716143/

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2329/2260306507_0afb0c8c1b.jpg?v=0

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2069/2260306877_0786042c99.jpg?v=0

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2262/2260300453_df68ab1955.jpg?v=0



I removed the derailleurs and gear shifters and turned it into a single speed, but I have kept all of the parts. If this bike is actually valuable, I will put them back on to keep it as complete as possible. ANY more info on the bike would be greatly appreciated! I am especially interested in the year, and whether or not this was a custom built frame for a team (there is a small cliff bar sticker on the top tube).

Thanks again,

Eric

Get rid of the hideous puke green thing, send it to me I'll pay the shipping and put it out of its misery :D

Haha, nice try :p


Get rid of the hideous puke green thing, send it to me I'll pay the shipping and put it out of its misery :D

Nice photo shoot almost beats S.I. latest shoot. Those world champion rings say 86 87, so basically your looking at an 88 or 89 possibly. That a very nice bike,

Thanks! That is what I was thinking too... It seems that I can't find much information on 88-89 bianchi bikes. I would love to see how this bike looked when it's 100% original. Any idea how much it is worth or how much it would have cost back then?


Nice photo shoot almost beats S.I. latest shoot. Those world champion rings say 86 87, so basically your looking at an 88 or 89 possibly. That a very nice bike,

Definately high-end, definately valuable and definately a trez-kewl single speed! You must be flying with that gear ratio you have.

Might be some useful info here (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=334642&highlight=)

Thanks Iowegian! It seems like the components in the other thread are exactly the same as on my bike. I think that I have a gem of a bike sitting here. I paid $250 for it!

I am pretty sure that this gear ratio is going to be hard on the knees... 53 x 16t. I have a feeling that I'll be switching to the inner ring 42t pretty soon. I just don't want to remove the crankset because I think it's amazing! Chicago is pretty flat though, so I'll give it a try as soon as it stops friggin snowing!



Definately high-end, definately valuable and definately a trez-kewl single speed! You must be flying with that gear ratio you have.

Might be some useful info here (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=334642&highlight=)

I would clean it up, and clean up the parts you took off, and put them back on. Then I would use that bike as my "nice" bike for fair weather road riding, and if it were very comfortable, long distance riding. I would also go get a relatively not-as-nice fixy for everyday city commuting.

I think that's probably what I am going to end up doing. I don't want this beauty to get too dinged up. I need new pedals for it too, do you know what kind were most likely on it originally? Thanks!

we need pics of the parts please. I see super record brake calipers (late model 1984/5-1987) and I would bet that is a C-record cranks, I can tell by the profile of the arms... though it could be CdA...

That is a very beautiful bike as for as much as I like ss/fg bikes... this isn't one of them.

Great find.

Wow, I just noticed you resurrected an old thread about components off this bike, it is C-record with pantoed super record calipers. You are very lucky, you must build it back up geared, you could sell it and buy a sweet track bike with the profits I am sure.

Here are some more pics of the parts. For all 50 pics, go to: http://flickr.com/photos/maddiepants...7603898716143/

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2313/2261359466_91209a6290.jpg?v=0

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2137/2260566949_ca3fa578e6.jpg?v=0 The black is just electrical tape to keep all of the parts together.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2327/2260565105_bd66837d02.jpg?v=0

Thanks for all of your comments guys!! I love uncovering the history of this amazing bike! Please keep em coming.

I still say send it to me. I might even put on some nice Schwinn derailleurs with some kewl steel rims:) Not gonna work is it? Well keep me in mind

haha:D

beautiful, quite a valuable bike and components set you have.

Thank you! I am extremely excited. Do you have a ballpark value for this bike or components? Can you tell me anything else about the bike or components? I kind of feel like I am at antiques roadshow and brought in something pretty valuable.


beautiful, quite a valuable bike and components set you have.

The value is...





(drum roll please)






More than I would spend!

That is however as detailed as I can get on pricing for that particular bike.

However, I can admire a beautiful bike!

I am not a fan of Bianchi's celeste color, but that is one beautiful bike, and I wouildn't change a thing (once you get the components back on it).

Great find! Thanks for sharing it with us!

I held my breath during that "drum roll" :D

Anyone else out there that can tell me a little bit more about the bike?

we`d need tons of pictures of the bike and all the parts on it and then we`d still wouldn`t be able to give you a much better estimate than....

$800-2000... big range.. it mostly depends on condition, and based on the components it looks well used.. so figure closer to the $800 mark... clean it and overhaul it and take a whole bunch of nice photos and get back to us... but if you are not selling it than don`t worry about it, enjoy it for it`s awesomeness.

Thanks cyclotoine, I probably won't sell it. Any advice on what to use to clean it up? I'll definitely take more pics as I go along.

Do you guys agree that it is probably a Bianchi X-4 from the late 80's? I wonder if there are any catalogues with this bike in it...

Fixed gear is not my thing, but I can at least understand why someone might want it. Freewheeling single speed, on the other hand, makes no sense whatsoever, because the original geared configuration can do everything it can, and much more. Put the derailleurs and shifters back on it and leave it in the same gear all the time, if you really want to.

It is a very nice frame!

I am pretty sure that this gear ratio is going to be hard on the knees... 53 x 16t. I have a feeling that I'll be switching to the inner ring 42t pretty soon.

Yes, 53X16 will be a very hard gear to push. 42X16 is a good combo for starting out on SS/fixed.

Thanks! I will put them back on once I get them all nice and polished up. I guess the main reason why I wanted to just make it a single speed is because every time I tried to change gears, the chain would come off. Then one time I was riding and accidently moved the shifter and the chain came off again... Probably something easily fixed with a tune up, but I was riding it in one gear anyway and thought that I could shed a few pounds by removing the gear system.

This was before I realized that I had a pretty rare bike on my hands! :rolleyes:


Fixed gear is not my thing, but I can at least understand why someone might want it. Freewheeling single speed, on the other hand, makes no sense whatsoever, because the original geared configuration can do everything it can, and much more. Put the derailleurs and shifters back on it and leave it in the same gear all the time, if you really want to.

It is a very nice frame!

kerosene or penetrating oil are both good cleaning agents, it is best to completely disassemble and clean everything and then reassemble. Warm soapy water and a tooth brush works too. Most of the parts are anodized so you won't be doing any real polishing, just clean it up and it will look nice, be careful if you take the Rear derailleur apart, there are loose ball bearings in the pulleys... Rear derailleur rebuilds are probably my favorite thing to do.

Thanks to everyone for their comments and advice. Is there anything I can do to help figure out the year, and model of this bike? Anything that I can take pictures of to help clarify things? Any bianchi experts out there? Any Websites that could lead me on the right (bike) trail?

Thanks again!

-Eric

if it is an X4 from the mid '80's, it is valuable. Next to the Centenario, the rarest of the Bianchi's from the later part of the century. Very valuable. All of the parts should match the panto on the shifters, but may have been replaced later. The frame looks very much like an X4. Your linkie doesn't work.

what does the columbus sticker say?

what does the columbus sticker say?

It's a TSX tubeset. Very nice.

Sorry about the broken link... I fixed it... http://flickr.com/photos/maddiepants...7603898716143/

All of the parts have the same panto on them. You will see that they all have the same campagnolo etching and Bianchi X-4 on the cranks, shifters, and brake calipers.

On the columbus sticker it says: TUBI SPECIALI SUPERBUTTED, then there's the picture of the dove, and below that it says "Acciaio CroMo Cyclex TSX ELICA CONTINUA. You can see it on one of the pictures in the flickr site, (hopefully the link works this time).

You seem to know a bit about this bike, is there anything else you can tell me about it? I think its from the late 80's because it has a sticker that says campione del mondo colorado springs 1986-1987.

Thank you so much for the information!


if it is an X4 from the mid '80's, it is valuable. Next to the Centenario, the rarest of the Bianchi's from the later part of the century. Very valuable. All of the parts should match the panto on the shifters, but may have been replaced later. The frame looks very much like an X4. Your linkie doesn't work.

what does the columbus sticker say?

Fixed gear is not my thing, but I can at least understand why someone might want it. Freewheeling single speed, on the other hand, makes no sense whatsoever, because the original geared configuration can do everything it can, and much more. Put the derailleurs and shifters back on it and leave it in the same gear all the time, if you really want to.

It is a very nice frame!

+1

Man, why does that have to be a fixie :(

Honestly, you could do so much better for a fixie if you sold that bike. Or just turn it back to geared form and ride it. I bet it'll ride beautifully. If the condition of that frame is good and you give it an amazing cleaning and overhaul, you could probably get atleast a grand for it. If not set the reserve on an auction to a grand and see what happens.

That way you can get a fixed gear that you can treat as a non track only fixed gear i.e. not worry about it. It's a beautiful bike, and I'm really glad you're riding it, but why not just stick to geared?

(Says the kid building up an 84 trek 760 with 10 speed campy centaur shifters, veloce RD, compact crank, and shimano wheels, while possibly keeping or ebaying the suntour superbe parts. /shill anyone want to buy the superbe stuff? /end shill)

Haven't ridden it as a single speed yet ;) I rode it geared all last summer (but usually kept it on one gear because the chain would come off if i didn't switch exactly right) and just decided to play around with it about a week ago. My itchin' to play around caused me to try to do more research on the bike and now I am going to just clean up all of the components and pop 'em back on. I realize now that this is not the bike to convert :) Now I want to find out how to restore it. Any idea of what kind of pedals would have been on it when it was brand new?

I've been collecting the odd bike here and there for at least 20 years - (30+ bikes). If I had your bike in my collection I would regard it as being in the top 3 (with another Bianchi). I have always wanted a Bianchi just like yours - you've got a great vintage bike.

I'm no expert but I don't think TSX tubing was available back when the Bianchi X4 was around. To me it looks like the frame is a new TSX frame (I used to own one like this) but paired up with an old Bianchi fork and campy c-record components. Some of the things which make the frame look more modern than the rest of the parts/fork is the font of the Bianchi decal, the signature decal on the top tube, the internal rear derailleur cable that enters on the bottom of the chainstay, the internal rear brake cable, the semi-sloping dropouts. I wonder if the BB is english threaded like how mine used to be???

I saved this from a earler post when doing a research on a Cinelli - if this is truely the date of TSX then "bititan" may have point that the time frame between the frame and parts don't add up. Just confirming his point. mw



"s70rguy
OK, so after more research, I can answer my own question:

Columbus TSX is "superbutted" CrMo with continuous helical reinforcements.
It was an improvement on the SLX tubing, but was quickly replaced by the
Columbus PRX ribbed tubing.

I assume I couldn't find much info because it was a short-lived tubing line,
sort of an interim stage between SLX and PRX.

I'm still trying to find the date range that this tubing was in production,
so I can pin down the vintage of my Guerciotti.

This is what I know about TSX tubing. It is made of Cyclex steel, like SP, SL, MS, SPX, SLX and, indeed, PRX tubing; the last ones were Neuron and Brain (a Cyclex Cromo combo). In the development of better steels by Columbus, Cyclex was superseded by Nivacrom steel: MAX, EL, EL/OS, Genius, Nemo and Zona tubing. After Nivacrom came Thermacrom steel: Foco and Ultrafoco tubing.
TSX and PRX were the last developments of Cyclex steel, PRX being the most sophisticated. Now I have never seen a frame built with PRX tubing, but I have seen a fair number of TSX ones. I would say TSX is far more popular than PRX.
I would date a TSX frame to '91 or '92.

Hope this helps."

Hey all thanks for the info! Check this out: http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/my_bianchi/algentin.htm

http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/my_bianchi/RIM000211.jpg

http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/my_bianchi/RIM211.jpg

This dude in japan has a TON of bianchi bikes and it seems that on his list he has a couple of X-4's and he has a specialissima X-4 which apparently was only made for argentina or something like that. But as you can see in the picture, the frame has the exact same script on the seat stays, the same engraved Bianchi logos on the side and the engraved logo on the head. His bike has black accents though.

I think that these two bikes are definitely in the same family... I wish i could see a picture of a regular x-4 and not this argentine special edition

Any thoughts on this?

This guy's site is pretty comprehensive! He's got old catalogues up too.

Thanks!

-Eric

Just a general observation that his bike is SLX which sort of fits with the correct timeline and yours is TSX which doesn't unless the production spans into 1991 or 1992

Check this out: http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/my_bianchi/my%20bianchi%20bicycles.htm

This guy has a list of all his bianchi bikes, and he apparently has a 1991 and 1992 Bianchi X-4. Is that the timeframe when TSX was used? I have a feeling that mine is a 91 or 92. I don't think they made X-4's in 1993 did they? Unfortunately, he doesn't have pictures posted of his x-4's. I emailed him to see if he would be so kind as to take some pics and email me. I hope he does.

Man we are getting so CLOSE here!


Just a general observation that his bike is SLX which sort of fits with the correct timeline and yours is TSX which doesn't unless the production spans into 1991 or 1992

well the rear derailleur you have dates at latest to 1988. Look on the inside of the derailleur parallelogram on the back of the front plate (so on the other side from the shield logo) there is a 2 digit date code. also check the back of the cranks for the 2 digit date code in a square.

It is my belief that the following is true for late 80s campagnolo...

11- 1985
22 - 1986
33 (or 31?) - 1987
41 - 1988
51 - 1989

The 90s things changed and I haven't seen many codes though last night I saw a post c-record but still c-record profile/shape crank with the code A2. This is a long shot but... A0-1990 A1-1991 A2-1992?

Inside the square of both the derailleur and the cranks it says "21".

It might be hard to see, but I took a picture of it:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2332/2263760644_fe078f61bf.jpg?v=0


What do you think?

Inside the square of both the derailleur and the cranks it says "21".

It might be hard to see, but I took a picture of it:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2332/2263760644_fe078f61bf.jpg?v=0


What do you think?

Well 21... hmmm maybe the 11,22 and 33 was a super record only thing, that would make sense

so 21,31,41 etc... would mean 1986,1987,1988 respectively... so it looks like a 1986 component date which according to some does not coincide with TSX introduction, but the components would seem original and perhaps the components were a year late due to the need of pantographing and such which might mean the bike is an 86/87 there have been anomalies in dating before...

I found this chart on 1989 Columbus tubing. They had TSX in 1989... i wonder if they had it in '88 as well? Maybe only for custom frames or something?

http://equusbicycle.com/bike/columbus/columbuschart.htm

Cyclotoine, I think you'd like this site I found. It has a lot of nice pictures of campy components. It's in japanese though.

http://www1.ocn.ne.jp/~campa/

Cyclotoine, I think you'd like this site I found. It has a lot of nice pictures of campy components. It's in japanese though.

http://www1.ocn.ne.jp/~campa/

Yes it is a good site. I also have every campagnolo catalog in PDF starting with number 12 - 1953.

That's awesome! Anyway, I appreciate all of the info you provided. It seems that it is possible that the bike was made just when they first started introducing TSX tubing and stopped making those specific campy parts. 88 or 89 perhaps?

I strongly believe that the components date to 1986. The front derailleur and cranks, seatpost etc all remained the same into the early 90s. The rear derailleur changed in 1989. Making this one no later than 1989, but as I said I still think 1986. In support of this you have late model super record calipers (also used with cobalto brakeset but with a different center nut - big deal eh?). No one knows for sure when these brakes ceased production but it is generally believed that that date is 1987 which is the last year of production of super record. So I will say I firmly believe you bike can be no later than 1987 or MAYBE 1988. For bianchi to have offered this bike past that date they would have had to hang onto old stock parts to outfit the bike. An impossibility today but not impossible back then, though still unlikely.

That sounds quite reasonable to me. Unless anyone else has any new nuggets of info to toss into the pot, 1987 (or maybe 88) seems the likely year in which this bike was born. Now I need to find someone who has one of these bikes that is 100% complete and in tact... Or a catalogue perhaps?

I am begining to think - parts from one era x4 - hung on a x4 frame from another era. We still need to confirm frame production 1986 -1989 or to 1991.
Maybe something happened to the orginal frame and parts swaped out to a different frame. I agree with Cyclotoine's dating of the parts though, but erick you are intending to ride this or are you intending to sell when you establish some sort of provenance. You may never get to all of your answers, not to imped your research though this has een fun.

I am begining to think - parts from one era x4 - hung on a x4 frame from another era. We still need to confirm frame production 1986 -1989 or to 1991.
Maybe something happened to the orginal frame and parts swaped out to a different frame. I agree with Cyclotoine's dating of the parts though, but erick you are intending to ride this or are you intending to sell when you establish some sort of provenance. You may never get to all of your answers, not to imped your research though this has een fun.

vosyer- you may very well be right. Although it seems weird to me that someone would take a complete component set and stick it on a same model frame, but different year. Then again there have been crazier things done to bikes.

I definitely intend to ride this bike and not sell it... (unless someone offers me something i can't refuse) In anycase, I LOVE it. Doing all this research on the bike has been incredibly fun and I hope to learn more. There has to me more Bianchi x-4's out there as well people who know about a lot about them. This has seriously been the most fun I've ever had with a bike.