Southern California - Pasadena // RoseBowl circuit // Tuesdays & Thursdays

...opening a thread on this... :D

SO.... :D

What's the deal with this? :D
Are the rides picking up again? :D
What will be the situation, in this year of 2008 (v. Gregorian) now that the City of Pasadena (CoP) went all manic with the ride's size. Will we be seeing the CoP order their COPs to keep post along the circuit? :D:D

...and who will be most OCP? :D
...and how fast do you expect to get dropped? :eek:

I always get dropped on lap #2 (for the most part). Been the case since 1994. :p

It starts up after daylight savings goes into effect, I think.

Enough negativity... it will start in 3 weeks with DST. it should be o.k. There are more people walking in the buffer zone\ going in the wrong direction than ever.As long as they continue to do nothing to enforce that i dont see how they can hassle us... see you out there.!

Enough negativity... it will start in 3 weeks with DST. it should be o.k. There are more people walking in the buffer zone\ going in the wrong direction than ever.As long as they continue to do nothing to enforce that i dont see how they can hassle us... see you out there.!

Great! I can't wait. Or rather, I can... but really, I look forward to it.
(and my post was not intended to be negative)

Enough negativity... it will start in 3 weeks with DST. it should be o.k. There are more people walking in the buffer zone\ going in the wrong direction than ever.As long as they continue to do nothing to enforce that i dont see how they can hassle us... see you out there.!
I was considering going out there during one of these rides to walk in the opposite direction with a video camera making commentary on the pedestrians going the wrong direction and in the buffer zone, and pointing out how the front riders in the peleton call out any obstacles, riders, dogs, etc. so the pack can avoid it. My commentary will be loud enough for anyone I'm talking about to hear it, too. "Note the number of pedestrians walking in the buffer zone instead of in the pedestrian lane" ... "Note the runner going right over the painted arrow clearly indicating that he should be going in the other direction, which would allow him to see any approaching vehicles much better"

I was considering going out there during one of these rides to walk in the opposite direction with a video camera making commentary on the pedestrians going the wrong direction and in the buffer zone, and pointing out how the front riders in the peleton call out any obstacles, riders, dogs, etc. so the pack can avoid it. My commentary will be loud enough for anyone I'm talking about to hear it, too. "Note the number of pedestrians walking in the buffer zone instead of in the pedestrian lane" ... "Note the runner going right over the painted arrow clearly indicating that he should be going in the other direction, which would allow him to see any approaching vehicles much better"

You're such a school teacher. :rolleyes::p:D

It does start up after daylight savings time. The buffer zone has reduced the amount of road we have as walkers now feel the buffer zone means now they can walk in the buffer zone AND in the road. I think I will continue to avoid the ride.

urbanknight, you should really do that. It would bring to light that the whole thing isn't just one sided. In order to be "safe" everyone who uses the space needs to proceed with caution...

as above..that would be good to do..!

I'm just curious as to what goes on at the RoseBowl circuit. Is this some kind of an organized training event? Or is it that cyclists typically start showing up to train after DST because of the more pleasant weather and lighting conditions?




urbanknight, you should really do that. It would bring to light that the whole thing isn't just one sided. In order to be "safe" everyone who uses the space needs to proceed with caution...

Haha, I could actually see this happening. I think it'd be funny to have a guy with a mic and a pole following around while someone else has a camera taking footage of urbanknight "spreading the word."

I'm just curious as to what goes on at the RoseBowl circuit. Is this some kind of an organized training event? Or is it that cyclists typically start showing up to train after DST because of the more pleasant weather and lighting conditions?It's a non-organized training race.

"Race" because speeds rarely fall below 25mph, hitting 40mph on the back stretch along the clubhouse and 28mph on the climb up West Dr. Yes...ouch!

"Non-organized" probably because of liability issues: no club wants to lay claim as director/organizer. Riders have just showed up at 5:55pm for the past 30, 40, 50 years or whatever and did a bit of a race. 10 laps. About 30-ish miles. 1 hour and 10 minutes and it's done. This "non-organized" status is contributing to whether Pasadena shuts it down or not. They don't know who to deal with. No one steps forward.

This might help. (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=380788)

It's a non-organized training race.

"Race" because speeds rarely fall below 25mph, hitting 40mph on the back stretch along the clubhouse and 28mph on the climb up West Dr. Yes...ouch!

"Non-organized" probably because of liability issues: no club wants to lay claim as director/organizer. Riders have just showed up at 5:55pm for the past 30, 40, 50 years or whatever and did a bit of a race. 10 laps. About 30-ish miles. 1 hour and 10 minutes and it's done. This "non-organized" status is contributing to whether Pasadena shuts it down or not. They don't know who to deal with. No one steps forward.

Good to know; thanks for the warning...now I know to stay out of the way. :D Maybe I'll go for a jog and be a spectator since I've never really seen a cycling event in person.

Good to know; thanks for the warning...now I know to stay out of the way. :D Maybe I'll go for a jog and be a spectator since I've never really seen a cycling event in person.

Tony, it's best to steer clear of riding over there when the peloton is on, and if you do jog, please stay inside the white lines! (many pedestrians don't, which is the main concern). I don't like to be out there when those boys are flying around, but I do like to watch them for a couple of laps (then I hightail it up and out of the bowl and into the canyons as I don't want to be in their way, nor do I want to end up under a man's wheel - a man, maybe, but without the bike attached to him. :p). Of course, my reasons for watching it will not be your reasons, but you can enjoy nonetheless. :D

I think that buffer zone needs to have some symbols painted in it like a pedestrian w/ slash thru it and a cycle w/ slash thru it. It really needs to be made crystal clear that that is a buffer zone. Right now, it's just going to be another 'situation' brewing.
I've seen many pedestrians use it as an excuse to walk further out and also some cyclists thinking it is a bike lane (which it does look like). I'm sure many cars think it's a bike lane too.

If you jump into the Rose Bowl ride (time change is when it starts and ends), stay in the front 1/3rd of the pack. It's smoother and safer. The false flat is a good place to practice jumps out of the pack and intervals.

They need to replace that buffer zone with a soft physical barrier.

I honestly can't wait for the ride to start again.

Tony, it's best to steer clear of riding over there when the peloton is on, and if you do jog, please stay inside the white lines! (many pedestrians don't, which is the main concern). I don't like to be out there when those boys are flying around, but I do like to watch them for a couple of laps (then I hightail it up and out of the bowl and into the canyons as I don't want to be in their way, nor do I want to end up under a man's wheel - a man, maybe, but without the bike attached to him. :p). Of course, my reasons for watching it will not be your reasons, but you can enjoy nonetheless. :D

Haha, no joke. I'd be too afraid to ride my bike through there let alone walk/jog in the buffer zone.



They need to replace that buffer zone with a soft physical barrier.

+1, but I really like cruiserhead's idea of painted icons on the floor. It leaves little room for error unless the instigating pedestrians/cyclists are morons.

+1, but I really like cruiserhead's idea of painted icons on the floor. It leaves little room for error unless the instigating pedestrians/cyclists are morons.

Bingo

but I really like cruiserhead's idea of painted icons on the floor.

Pedestrian's direction of travel painted in large arrows are ignored. What makes you think they'll obey these icons? :)

Pedestrian's direction of travel painted in large arrows are ignored. What makes you think they're obey these icons? :)

When I was there on Saturday, a group of four were spread out going against the arrows across the white line. I just went around them, as they were gabbing and didn't even hear my "on your left!" said in a very nasty tone.

Pedestrian's direction of travel painted in large arrows are ignored. What makes you think they'll obey these icons? :)

I'd happily pay a couple extra bucks in tax money annually to hire a goon squad with mild tazers to reinforce the rules. ;)

When I was there on Saturday, a group of four were spread out going against the arrows across the white line. I just went around them, as they were gabbing and didn't even hear my "on your left!" said in a very nasty tone.

I've considered spitting on them, or heading right into them. They'll move. Keep doing it with each lap, they'll get the message.

I'm in a no-bullsh*t-from-morons mood these days.

I've considered spitting on them, or heading right into them. They'll move. Keep doing it with each lap, they'll get the message.

I'm in a no-bullsh*t-from-morons mood these days.

They don't move for single riders, but they do for the peloton.

I know you racers are into weight savings, but I was thinking you should consider this:

I'm sure it'll get the point across. :devil:D:

At 30mph you shouldn't be riding in the bike lane. And you shouldn't be anywhere near walkers, joggers, strollers, soccer games, or slower cyclists for that matter. Would you drive a car at 30mph three feet away from a little kid on a bike? You are travelling at general traffic speeds and should be using the general traffic lanes going in the right direction for general traffic. At that's generally where the peloton runs, at least the times I have been there. The problems that have occured on those instances have been with automobiles or sketchy riding.

I'd happily pay a couple extra bucks in tax money annually to hire a goon squad with mild tazers to reinforce the rules. ;)

I'm surprised that a couple clubs and/or shops haven't joined forces to pay for a couple traffic cops to help run the show -- in conjunction with the city, of course. Not really that expensive, would ensure the ride lives on, and improve communications/relations between bikers and everyone else.

I ridden it only about 5 or 6 times last year. I never once saw someone riding in the buffer OR walking lanes. When someone did try to pass on the inside (coming within about 3 feet of those lines) they were scolded pretty well by the rest of the pack. We do use the general traffic lanes and we most certainly do not slow down traffic.

BTW, the one thing the pack does that it holds all responsibility for is "swarming" a vehicle as it waits to turn. All other things the pack is accused of doing must give equal responsibility to pedestrians/walkers/strollers. Of course, the complaints that have created the mess to shut it down have--interestingly enough--come from the golfers (at least according to the Sheriff, or his office), those whom the pack never seems to interfere with.

Didn't we have a whole thread on this before? Sigh.

Not that I care and personally if the peloton is back, yeah...but, it's been dissected over and over again. The subject of the pedestrians and their habit of not following the law, however, is a real concern for anyone riding over there, be it in a pack, solo or driving an automobile.

Yeah, we did. I just figured people were asking questions because maybe they missed it first time around. Sorry. :)

Yeah, we did. I just figured people were asking questions because maybe they missed it first time around. Sorry. :)

Oh, that wasn't aimed at you, Mark, or anyone in particular! :o I just meant that the discussion has been had and had and had (and besides, I'm in here talking about it too! :p).

I didn't start this thread to necessarily churn up the muck again (although it was probably a given considering the circumstances). :rolleyes: My intention, dear Mary, is that there's a thread for this weekly ride ...uh....race.... much like the Montrose Ride has a thread. :D

I didn't start this thread to necessarily churn up the muck again (although it was probably a given considering the circumstances). My intention, dear Mary, is that there's a thread for this weekly ride ...uh....race.... much like the Montrose Ride has a thread.

Alex, I said nothing about your thread. I was referring to ALL of us starting the talk again about the peloton and who complained, etc. I was actually inferring that we don't go into that again since there is already a thread on that topic.

Jesus, you are so defensive about every little thing on here. It's an internet forum. Sorry, you don't feel like you're in some "in" crowd, but you don't need to get so pissed at every little post that you think it a criticism of you.

Alex, I said nothing about your thread. I was referring to ALL of us starting the talk again about the peloton and who complained, etc. I was actually inferring that we don't go into that again since there is already a thread on that topic.

Jesus, you are so defensive about every little thing on here. It's an internet forum. Sorry, you don't feel like your in some "in" crowd, but you don't need to get so pissed at every little post that you think it a criticism of you.

Man, I wish there'd be a forum that had sounds instead of text... I wasn't pissed (and I'm not pissed)... so... ummm... perhaps if I added a few smiles in there?

(and I'm not being sarcastic about the smiles either... I mean, how else can I convey that I'm not pissed, but trying to explain myself without sounding pissed?)

(and how do I convey that I'm not being defensive, but just trying to convey clearly without sounding pissed?)

(and how do I convey that without sounding pissed?)

writing is futile... i'm giving up..... ugh... :(

Okay, I'm going back and adding smiley faces in my old posts so I don't sound pissed. :D

(and I'm not being sarcastic in adding the smiley faces - I'm genuinely trying to convey genuine speech... you know... through text... that is 1's and 0's sent across the internets.... yeah.... :D)

(that wasn't sarcasm, either!! :D)

EDIT: ADDED :D and other emoticons to my posts.

Man, I wish there'd be a forum that had sounds instead of text... I wasn't pissed (and I'm not pissed)... so... ummm... perhaps if I added a few smiles in there?

(and I'm not being sarcastic about the smiles either... I mean, how else can I convey that I'm not pissed, but trying to explain myself without sounding pissed?)

(and how do I convey that I'm not being defensive, but just trying to convey clearly without sounding pissed?)

(and how do I convey that without sounding pissed?)

writing is futile... i'm giving up..... ugh... :(

I don't know, except that I received three different PMs from members asking me why the anger with you (so, I'm not the only one who interpreted that post the way I did). So, maybe smilies would work? I use them myself so people know when I'm kidding, etc.

The smiley is a powerful tool.

Thanks for letting me know that people were/are concerned.

^^^^ that sentence was said in a very kind, open tone and is in no way intended to be interpreted as angry, nor sarcastic, nor anything negative. Please don't project an opinion if you don't know me in person. ;) I wouldn't do that to you.

More fiber, maybe?











The smiley is a powerful tool.

urbanknight, you should really do that. It would bring to light that the whole thing isn't just one sided. In order to be "safe" everyone who uses the space needs to proceed with caution...
The intention would be to mail a DVD to the city hall so they can see that the problem is multifaceted. I'm honestly not sure if it would do good or if it would harm the cause.


They need to replace that buffer zone with a soft physical barrier.
Agreed. I always wondered why they didn't just put some of those plastic reflector posts or something. It would make more of a statement than an arrow. If you think signs mean ANYTHING to people these days, stand outside of a Home Depot EXIT door (marked with 10" high letters) and see how many people walk IN.


I've considered spitting on them, or heading right into them. They'll move. Keep doing it with each lap, they'll get the message.

I'm in a no-bullsh*t-from-morons mood these days.
Spitting on them would be assault, and if you play chicken with every moron out there, you're bound to lose once.


I'm surprised that a couple clubs and/or shops haven't joined forces to pay for a couple traffic cops to help run the show -- in conjunction with the city, of course. Not really that expensive, would ensure the ride lives on, and improve communications/relations between bikers and everyone else.
Hiring traffic cops would require someone to step up and be responsible for it. I would love to see someone pull a permit to have a once a week training series, but I don't think the city would approve it anyway.


We do use the general traffic lanes and we most certainly do not slow down traffic.
Actually, the first half of the first lap is frequently done at about 8-10 mph and does hold up vehicles for about 5-8 minutes. The riders use the entire width of the lane and sometimes even go over into the opposing traffic lane. What's worse is they heckle any car that tries to go around them, especially if they can't get past the pack before encountering a car head on. That's the one thing I'd like to see change. Riders can warm up on their own, so when they start it should be a brisk pace from the gun.

So where along the loop is the 'start' if you're saying that people do a warm-up for the first half of the first lap? :D Is the start at 5:55p, sharp? :D or does it all casually swarm together like flocks of birds at sunset in Saharan Africa? :D

(i'm thinking of a specific phenomena of a particular species of bird that, collectively, forms mass movements beyond belief in coordination, but i can't recall the species name right now, sorry!)

(this post contains no sarcasm, no negative tonality, and no projection. my questions and tone is genuine.)

this is for insurance: :D

I don't think physical barriers (pylons, flex posts) are practical with all the events and traffic re-routing they do.
Maybe bots dots on both sides of the 'buffer zone' but then someone would sue the city for twisting their ankle or causing an unsafe situation- you know they would.

I think just post information signs all over the parking areas saying "Look-this is where you walk. This is where no one goes. This is where cyclists go."
And then the icons w/ slashes thru them painted at regular intervals in the 'buffer zone'...

It takes all the misunderstanding away, it becomes very easy to follow the law and very difficult to ignore it... well, that's just something I think about as I do laps around the Bowl sometimes ;)

So where along the loop is the 'start' if you're saying that people do a warm-up for the first half of the first lap? :D Is the start at 5:55p, sharp? :D or does it all casually swarm together like flocks of birds at sunset in Saharan Africa? :D

There is a painted "start/finish" line shortly after the third fire hydrant after Aliso Canyon. The "start", however, does actually gradually collect people, but most of them start together at the southwest corner, which makes a full 50-100 person group from that corner all the way up to the northeast corner when they finally start picking up the pace.



I think just post information signs all over the parking areas saying "Look-this is where you walk. This is where no one goes. This is where cyclists go."
And then the icons w/ slashes thru them painted at regular intervals in the 'buffer zone'...

It takes all the misunderstanding away, it becomes very easy to follow the law and very difficult to ignore it... well, that's just something I think about as I do laps around the Bowl sometimes ;)
There are already signs every 50' or so that state that you are near a golf course and that you assume all risks associated with that, yet I still saw a lady yelling at a golfer because ball almost hit her. She clearly didn't understand that golf is a game, and if human error wasn't involved, everybody would get an 18 and there would be no winner.

You're probably right about the bots dots, sadly. It doesn't even matter that the person would have to admit to walking/jogging in the no walking/jogging/cycling/living zone to have injured him/herself.

The buffer zone can be filled in with the OP's avatar, but with less black lines, and maybe the 'no cycling' and 'no pedestrian' sign every 100 meters or so.

The buffer zone can be filled in with the OP's avatarThat will make people dizzy and will cause accidents.

One more element to add character to the ride. :D

I still saw a lady yelling at a golfer because ball almost hit her.


I just say, "Nice shot, Tiger!" which, I think, is the equivalent of a stranger yelling, "Go Lance!" :p

Actually, the first half of the first lap is frequently done at about 8-10 mph and does hold up vehicles for about 5-8 minutes. The riders use the entire width of the lane and sometimes even go over into the opposing traffic lane. What's worse is they heckle any car that tries to go around them, especially if they can't get past the pack before encountering a car head on. That's the one thing I'd like to see change. Riders can warm up on their own, so when they start it should be a brisk pace from the gun.

True enough. I guess I was thinking after we had started racing speed.

I remember one time, a woman yelled and honked as she passed by--- only to go into the parking lot 50 meters away! I was by myself, coasting.
She parks just by the entry! and gets out of the car (obviously dressed to jog or walk) So I said "what's the problem?" and she started cussing and swearing saying "why don't you f-n bikers stay in the bike lane?"

I was kind of amused, kind of surprised (she was a pretty, waspy brunette), "there is no bike lane, that is for pedestrians only. Nice language to be using around kids..." She wakes out of her rage and looks at the woman and kid staring at her. She gets back into her car and leaves... but I know she is probably a vocal opponent of cyclists now. Spurned on by her shame... ;) The kid and I shrug and I go off again, another day at the Bowl!

Usually it's not that bad!