Road Bike Racing - Dropping road bars gradually

Have you guys tried it this way? I dropped the stem of my Six13 one spacer, which is only about 1/8", and while it feels fine on the hoods and tops, I can feel the difference in the drops. I'd like to drop it another spacer eventually. That seems to me the way to do it - gradually, to give your body a chance to adjust.

Any experience with this? I think the drop from my saddle to the bar tops is about 4" now, I'd like to increase it a little bit. I kind of like the new position on the bike, more aggressive, still quite comfortable on the top of the bars....

I did the same method, plus took some yoga/pilates to increase my flexibility. I run no spacers now.

spacers are so fred

I've done the same thing.

Keeping my hams and back stretched and strengthening my core really seemed to help as well.

You should see the drop on KP's bike. It's like the friggin Hillary Step.

Careful Pcad. I did the same thing last year but ended up with a lower back issue. I found that the "lower" drop was not worth the potential damage to my back. It is not the gradual lowering or the steady riding that whacks the back it is the sudden burst of power in races or training that puts the strain on the back. By the time it occurs it is too late and you have to take time off to heal.

I weighed the cost benefit and left the spacers in and the drop comfortable. Have not had an issue since.

Yeah slowly drop a spacer at a time while working on your flexibility. You can always go back up if you feel you went down too early.

Thats what I did soon found out that my (then) current stem had too much rise so I changed to a flatter 17 degree, then found out that I could go lower and ended up with a custom frame (along with other geometry changes)

You should see the drop on KP's bike. It's like the friggin Hillary Step.

He also twenty years younger than me. There should be some sort of age based calculation for the drops.

if age = X then Drop =Y (+flex%) / racing Cat

spacers are so fred

someone should tell ekimov he's a fred.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/tour04/tech/tourbikes2/CN-TDF04-Eki_Trek01.jpg

I usually raise my bars when doing winter mileage and then begin creeping them back down so I'm in a more aggressive position once the season begins. This gives my back a break for the long hours done in the winter and by the time the first important race rolls around I am good to go.

someone should tell ekimov he's a fred.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/tour04/tech/tourbikes2/CN-TDF04-Eki_Trek01.jpg

Hey, my bike setup looks like that.

The greatest moment of my life was watching Eki finish in the top 5 in his final TdF TT @ age 40. God that was just awesome beyond awesome.

someone should tell ekimov he's a fred.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/tour04/tech/tourbikes2/CN-TDF04-Eki_Trek01.jpg

I guarantee a lot of folk here would, if they really didn't know who he was.

Have you guys tried it this way? I dropped the stem of my Six13 one spacer, which is only about 1/8", and while it feels fine on the hoods and tops, I can feel the difference in the drops. I'd like to drop it another spacer eventually. That seems to me the way to do it - gradually, to give your body a chance to adjust.

Any experience with this? I think the drop from my saddle to the bar tops is about 4" now, I'd like to increase it a little bit. I kind of like the new position on the bike, more aggressive, still quite comfortable on the top of the bars....

You have it exactly right. Don't rush each step. Do plenty of stretching. It also depends on how long a typical ride is. You might need to start with shorter rides and raise the mileage slowly too. Warm up carefully.

gradually doing it while at the same time working on flexibility is the way to go.

I tried last year, but after a few weeks developed back issues that were worsening and fredded my bike back up with spacers. I have grotesquely poor flexibility, combined with short legs relative to torso, so spacers are essential for my bike setup. I hate the way they look, but so what.

I have started doing it that way, and I have found my headset seems to have some vertical play. How do you get rid of that? Just tightening down the screw on top more?

I used to keep on lowering my bars a spacer at a time, then angled the bars down so the drops were parallel with the ground. This effectively made the reach longer which made me go to a shorter stem.

After getting fit, I've got 0 spacers underneath the un-flipped Ritchey 120mm stem, and two on top.

I did the same thing with my seat.... I had notoriously low seat height (beginner), and just left it that way. Once I realized it, I slowly raised it little by little over time. Hasn't seemed to effect my back.

OK, what's 'stretching'?

Now that you have a powertap use that with your changes. I have good flexability and have run no spacers but keep about 2cm of spacers under the stem which seems to be the happy medium for power in all positions.

Yeah, pcad, work on the stretching, and only lose spacers when you feel like you "want" to be lower. Don't go into it with a goal for a certain drop or number of spacers.

When I did this, I did some aggressive stretching for two weeks (only 5 minutes/day), and I became quite limber. Then I started tweaking my position a spacer at a time.

I also found that when I got lower, my stem felt too long. So I got a shorter one.


I have started doing it that way, and I have found my headset seems to have some vertical play. How do you get rid of that? Just tightening down the screw on top more?

You need to adjust your headset. http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=65



Headset Adjustment - Threadless Type
Threadless headsets work on the same principal as threaded headsets. The bearing races need to press against the bearings. The bolt in the top cap will put pressure on the stem, which presses on washers below the stem, which press on the bearing races, which press against the bearings.

NOTE: The cap and bolt at the top of the stem do not secure the stem onto the steering column. The bolt or bolts on the side of the stem keep the stem from moving once the adjustment is made. The cap is used for bearing adjustment only.
Begin by removing the adjusting bolt in the center of the steering column. Next, remove the top cap. There may be a star-shaped nut or other fittings inside the steering column. The bolt threads into this fitting and pulls on the fork against the headset bearing surfaces, which acts to tighten the adjustment. Note the height of the steering column relative to the stem. It should be about 3mm (1/8") below the level of the stem. The stem needs to press down on the spacers in order to adjust the bearings. If the steering column is level with the top of the stem, another spacer is needed below the stem.

1. Remove bolt and top cap to inspect steering column. Lubricate adjusting bolt and re-install cap and bolt by hand only. DO NOT TIGHTEN.
2. Loosen stem bolt(s) that secure stem to the steering column. Lubricate these bolts if they are dry. NOTE: DO NOT LUBRICATE INSIDE STEM OR ON STEERING COLUMN SURFACE.
3. Wiggle the stem side to side to see that it is loose. If the stem is jammed or rusted frozen to the steering column, no adjustment can be made.
4. Align stem straight to wheel and gently secure the top bolt. Stop when any resistance is felt.
5. Tighten stem bolt(s).
6. Check for play by pulling back and forth on fork. Turn the handlebars in different directions while checking for play. There may be play at this early setting. Use care when grabbing suspension forks, because the legs may have play. Grab upper portion of fork.
7. To adjust bearings, LOOSEN STEM BOLT(S).
8. Turn adjusting bolt in center cap only 1/8th turn clockwise.
9. Secure stem bolts, check for play again.
10. Repeat adjustments as above until play disappears. Remember to loosen stem bolts before turning adjusting bolt in cap.
11. Check alignment of stem and tighten stem binder bolts fully.

NOTE: Another test of play is to place the bike on ground and grab the front brake tightly. Press downward on the handlebars and rock the bike forward and back. A knocking sensation may indicate a loose headset. In effect this does the same thing as grabbing and pulling on the fork. However, play in the brake caliper arms may also cause a knocking. Front suspension forks may also have play in the legs, which can cause a knocking.If the adjustment seems very tight, there may be other problems in the headset. Bearing surfaces may be worn out, or the ball bearing retainers may be upside down, or a seal may be improperly aligned. If play always seems present no matter the adjustment, the steering column may be too long for the stem and top cap. Add spacers beneath stem in this case.
Bearing Adjustment and "Feel"
Bearing surfaces are made from hardened steel. The surfaces are cut typically by grinding. Round ball bearings roll on the curved surface of the cup and cone. Even the highest quality bearing surfaces will have slight grinding marks. In the left image below is a high quality cone magnifed two hundred times. Notice the parallel marks from the grinding stone. Also note a slight pit from wear. The right hand image is a bearing magnifed the same amount. It does show some surface marking, but is generally smoother than the cone or cup. Bearing surface smoothness will vary between manufacturers and between models. Some bearing system will simply "feel" smoother because they are smoother. This is why it is difficult to adjust by using a subjective feeling of smoothness. Generally, adjust bearings for the loosest setting that has no knocking or play, regardless of this relative smoothness.

Thanks waterrockets. I think this is a good time to use my Zinn and the art of road bike maintenance book as well. I guess I should have consulted that first.

I usually raise my bars when doing winter mileage and then begin creeping them back down so I'm in a more aggressive position once the season begins. This gives my back a break for the long hours done in the winter and by the time the first important race rolls around I am good to go.

Amen. 1/4 inch up once MTB racing starts in the fall. 1/8 inch down when intervals start. 1/8 inch when racing starts


Stretching is certainly a great idea, but I would advise specific strength exercises for the lower back even more than stretching.

I love 2manybikes posts so much. I want a welsh corgi.

I love 2manybikes posts so much. I want a welsh corgi.

Bailey is the Pcad of dogs.........



.http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6770/hpim8708oa3.jpg

Stretching is certainly a great idea, but I would advise specific strength exercises for the lower back even more than stretching.

Yep, tons of core strength and a flat back (hips rotated forward) will make it possible to be comfortable in a lower position.

Bailey is the Pcad of dogs.........



.http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6770/hpim8708oa3.jpg



Best in show this year was a Beagle (http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org).

http://www.curewitz.com/WrenSite_DancingSnoopy.jpg

I think the drop from my saddle to the bar tops is about 4" now, I'd like to increase it a little bit.
I personally think anything more than about 4" is utterly useless. My bars are at 2.5" and I can get my back perfectly flat. These people riding with huge drops are compensating for the fact that they forget to bend their elbows... or they think it makes their bike look cool.

Yep, tons of core strength and a flat back (hips rotated forward) will make it possible to be comfortable in a lower position.

I've been aggressive about working on my core strength this winter. Last weekend I put on new bars/stem (old & new same angle: 84/6). This time I decided to revisit position. Slid the saddle forward an inch (newish saddle too) and viola'! I could feel my hips rotate into a comfortable position despite it being lower.

How that pans out with a few hours on the road is another question. Previously it killed me right between the shoulder blades after an hour.

And yes, all the talk about 'flipping it' may well induce a number folks to make their bike look cooler with asinine drops. Probably the same folks wearing parachute pants in the day.

Drop it all at once. No stretching, no acclimating. In fact, get a sweaty warm up on the rollers indoors, and then immediately go out in the snow, underdressed and hammer in the newly dropped position.

Oh, and if on the very rare off-chance that a back problem should arise, you have my number (now accepting new patients!! :) )

I lower my bars for two, well three reasons:

1. I find myself wishing the bars were lower when I sprint. This is the main reason since I focus on the sprint.
2. I look in a mirror while I'm on the trainer and realize even in the drops my back is nowhere near flat.
3. My legs don't hit my stomach as hard as they did.

If you don't "need" to drop the bars then it's probably not necessary, no matter what the drop is or isn't. If you need to drop the bars I'd do it all at once in a controlled environment, see what happens, and test from there. If you need to drop the bars it'll feel much, much better. If it doesn't then you're forcing it.

When I gained weight and went through a period of back problems, I raised the bars significantly and went to a longer frame. About 3-4 cm higher and 3 cm longer. Probably about the same distance to the bars, just not as low.

I worked on core strength, did stomach and back exercises, went to a chiropractor for about a year, and lost some weight. I bought an adjustable stem, dropped my bars about 3-4 cm (in the process "shortening" the stem), and felt fine. I bought a different size frame to fit me correctly, use 13 or 14 cm stems. This was the strongest I felt in the last 7-10 years I think, except, I hope, now.

After 2-3 years, I felt the need to go lower. I was a bit more fit. I also went to shorter cranks so my knees didn't come up quite as high. I have a 1 cm shorter headtube now and feel comfy on that (same TT and stem).

Each time I dropped the bars all at once.

To a point lower bars allow you to recruit your glutes much, much earlier. You can experiment on a trainer by watching your leg flex as you bend your back further down, or by placing a hand on your leg and feeling when the muscle contracts. A more acute angle between your torso and your legs allows you to recruit the big muscles earlier. You compromise by adjusting for breathing, comfort, and rideability (too much weight on hands will cause premature tingles, neck cramps, and double vision when you look up - I know because that's how I rode for a while).

Lower bars help my sprint significantly. I really use my glutes when I sprint, apparently, since I can't sprint if I don't have my back in a very acute angle to my legs.

cdr

I personally think anything more than about 4" is utterly useless. My bars are at 2.5" and I can get my back perfectly flat. These people riding with huge drops are compensating for the fact that they forget to bend their elbows... or they think it makes their bike look cool.

This is with only about a 3" drop. Whenever I'm in pictures in a group I always seem to be the lowest...

http://www.photoscene.com/kimandsteve/images/1746.jpg

Drop it all at once. No stretching, no acclimating. In fact, get a sweaty warm up on the rollers indoors, and then immediately go out in the snow, underdressed and hammer in the newly dropped position.

Oh, and if on the very rare off-chance that a back problem should arise, you have my number (now accepting new patients!! :) )

It is bad enough that you regularly go out and crush unsuspecting fellow racers with your massive guads. Now you pile on with uncalled for humiliation and degradation on BF.

At long last you have embarked upon the serpentine path to Pcad Cycling Zen. The longest journey begins with a single step my scary fast weenie friend.

Stretching is certainly a great idea, but I would advise specific strength exercises for the lower back even more than stretching.


Yep, tons of core strength and a flat back (hips rotated forward) will make it possible to be comfortable in a lower position.

Exactly what exersizes would be recomended.

I personally think anything more than about 4" is utterly useless. My bars are at 2.5" and I can get my back perfectly flat. These people riding with huge drops are compensating for the fact that they forget to bend their elbows... or they think it makes their bike look cool.

Don't forget that different people are shaped differently. I'm running 5" of drop on my bike, which is just enough to get my back flat.

Don't forget that different people are shaped differently. I'm running 5" of drop on my bike, which is just enough to get my back flat.

Same. Long arms and very flexible. Take Levi Leipheimer on the other hand; his arms are so short he gets flat on his TT bike with maybe two or so inches of drop.

Yeah I have 14cm of drop (or 5.5 inches). Zero spacers & 14cm stem. Not a problem.

Don't forget that different people are shaped differently. I'm running 5" of drop on my bike, which is just enough to get my back flat.
Fair enough. I just figured longer arms would have a longer stem to take care of it, but I'm sure there are always exceptions. I'm the exception to frame sizing myself, having to run large frames just to get the correct saddle position.

its not just about drop, its about reach/length. Some of you whackers riding around with your knuckles scraping on the road would have been better off getting a longer headstem IMO.

its not just about drop, its about reach/length. Some of you whackers riding around with your knuckles scraping on the road would have been better off getting a longer headstem IMO.

I'll have you know that having my knuckles scraping on the road has shaved 23g off my fingers.

As I lower my stem, I find that my saddle presses more and more into the taint/soft tissue, and this is not good (duh). It also seems that the flatter my back is, and therefore the more my hips rotate forward, the more this undesirable pressure builds on the nether regions. Also, my legs are now hitting my chest, which seems to be an uncomfortable and inefficient thing (and at 192cm and 32" waist, I don't have much stomach to lose).

How does one compensate for this... i run 175 cranks?

thanks,

-L

As I lower my stem, I find that my saddle presses more and more into the taint/soft tissue, and this is not good (duh). It also seems that the flatter my back is, and therefore the more my hips rotate forward, the more this undesirable pressure builds on the nether regions. Also, my legs are now hitting my chest, which seems to be an uncomfortable and inefficient thing (and at 192cm and 32" waist, I don't have much stomach to lose).

How does one compensate for this... i run 175 cranks?

thanks,

-L

I handled that with the flexibility. I can get down there without rolling my hips forward much.

Dropped my bars by another spacer last night. Did my 2x20 with it like that. Still feels great. No soreness, still comfortable.

May drop another spacer next week.

Dropped my bars by another spacer last night. Did my 2x20 with it like that. Still feels great. No soreness, still comfortable.

May drop another spacer next week.

The back problems I think people are talking about don't happen after 1 or 2 rides. They are accumulative injuries. Discs takes months or years to deteriorate or get crush, squished or otherwise moved out of place. Nerve compression likewise. That's the biggest problem with these types of injuries. It takes so long that when the symptoms show up it is difficult to trace it back to the root cause.

Make changes slow and easy.

umd is the baddest ass lookin dude here on a race bike. It is better to look like a pro than to ride like a pro. That is Pcad's #1 Rule of Cycling.

Who cares about anything else?

As I lower my stem, I find that my saddle presses more and more into the taint/soft tissue, and this is not good (duh). It also seems that the flatter my back is, and therefore the more my hips rotate forward, the more this undesirable pressure builds on the nether regions. Also, my legs are now hitting my chest, which seems to be an uncomfortable and inefficient thing (and at 192cm and 32" waist, I don't have much stomach to lose).

How does one compensate for this... i run 175 cranks?

thanks,

-L
HTFU. That's how.

Seriously, though, try arching your back. They used to say a flat back was best, but now people are saying arching your back is more aero. Either way, arching a little works for me now that I have a gut.

I handled that with the flexibility. I can get down there without rolling my hips forward much.

Ever hear of the "water spilling out of a bowl" theory?

umd is the baddest ass lookin dude here on a race bike. It is better to look like a pro than to ride like a pro. That is Pcad's #1 Rule of Cycling.

Who cares about anything else?

Yep... Always best to look like a pro and surge to the front right before you hit a turn with the photo guy.

Exactly what exersizes would be recomended.?

Deadlifts. Always more deadlifts.

And getting to the level where you can deep-knee-bend squat a decent amount, however you get there.

Ever hear of the "water spilling out of a bowl" theory?

I haven't. Please enlighten me.

Basically, you want your hips rotated downward a little bit so that your "lap", if it held a bowl of water, would be spilling the water out. It's a power/efficiency thing.