Hello everyone, I am new to the folding bike community and this forum. I am trying to do some research and decide which bike would be best for me. I have my eye on the Dahon Curve D3 and the Speed P8, but my real question/concern is what is the differences between riding 16" wheels vs 20" wheels or a "commuter" folder vs a "touring" folder.
I am looking to commute on my bike, and this would be an 18 mile round trip run from my house to my office. (queens to manhattan in NYC). From what I've read, either size wheel would get the job done comfortably (but please correct me if I'm wrong!). I would also like to use the bike for longer weekend trips - say in the 25-35 mile range. Here are some of my questions:
1) What are the disadvantages of riding a bike like the Curve or another 16" bike for longer distances?
Does it become uncomfortable? Is it inefficient and too fatiguing? Or is it fine but a 20" just does the job better.
2) If a 20" is better for longer distances, how much better is it? Would 25-35 miles be fine but 50-100 would be pushing it? (I know this is all relative to what kind of shape you're in, but I'm just looking for approximations).
3) I am 5.9" @ 190 pounds. Should this have any bearing on my decision?
4) How do 16" wheels vs 20" wheels differ on off-road or, should I say, less-than-perfect pavement (because nyc has some mighty big pot holes)?
I look at these bikes and they're like the little machines that could. I know they're ideal for commuting, but I see that Curve D3 and I think, "Man, it would be fun to take a long (but leisurely) ride on that thing." But maybe that's not the case, and I should be looking at a 20" like the Speed P8. Thanks for your help!
invisiblehand
02-13-08, 01:47 PM
Hello everyone, I am new to the folding bike community and this forum. I am trying to do some research and decide which bike would be best for me. I have my eye on the Dahon Curve D3 and the Speed P8, but my real question/concern is what is the differences between riding 16" wheels vs 20" wheels or a "commuter" folder vs a "touring" folder.
I am looking to commute on my bike, and this would be an 18 mile round trip run from my house to my office. (queens to manhattan in NYC). From what I've read, either size wheel would get the job done comfortably (but please correct me if I'm wrong!). I would also like to use the bike for longer weekend trips - say in the 25-35 mile range. Here are some of my questions:
1) What are the disadvantages of riding a bike like the Curve or another 16" bike for longer distances?
Does it become uncomfortable? Is it inefficient and too fatiguing? Or is it fine but a 20" just does the job better.
2) If a 20" is better for longer distances, how much better is it? Would 25-35 miles be fine but 50-100 would be pushing it? (I know this is all relative to what kind of shape you're in, but I'm just looking for approximations).
3) I am 5.9" @ 190 pounds. Should this have any bearing on my decision?
4) How do 16" wheels vs 20" wheels differ on off-road or, should I say, less-than-perfect pavement (because nyc has some mighty big pot holes)?
I look at these bikes and they're like the little machines that could. I know they're ideal for commuting, but I see that Curve D3 and I think, "Man, it would be fun to take a long (but leisurely) ride on that thing." But maybe that's not the case, and I should be looking at a 20" like the Speed P8. Thanks for your help!
While there are many opinions on the forum -- a quick search will find the old threads -- I think that the general opinion is that the larger wheel will handle imperfections and perform better. However, there are a lot of other factor which come into play and the difference that wheel size makes is probably small.
Small wheels are considerably stronger than 26"+ wheels ... so I would not worry about your weight. Test ride the bikes and make sure that they fit well. If so, I think that you can do leisurely rides with either bike and be happy with them. There are people that do century rides with their folding bikes. In general, anecdotally writing, almost all of the people doing so are riding a 20" wheel bike. But every now and then we hear about someone on a Brompton riding in a century.
I would focus on how compact the fold is, what your needs are in this dimension, whether you need to carry stuff on a regular basis, and how well the bike accomplishes this before worrying about wheel size.
LittlePixel
02-13-08, 02:26 PM
4) How do 16" wheels vs 20" wheels differ on off-road or, should I say, less-than-perfect pavement (because nyc has some mighty big pot holes)?
I feel a diagram coming on!
http://www.littlepixel.info/twenty/wheels.gif
Put simply - smaller wheels are more easily swallowed by potholes increasing the 'stop dead and fly over the bars' posibilities when riding. A bigger percentage of the wheel will decend into the hole making it more jarring than with a larger wheel. Also, because the amount of tyre that has descended into the hole is larger, the exit angle for the tyre is steeper making it more likely to lose momentum/stop dead than ride over the hole.
But as can be seen by the diagram, 406 wheels actually don't fare that much better than 349s. A little bit. A measureable bit, but still not an awful lot.
I rode my Brompton in NYC this holidays (I'm a brit) and have seen the potholes of which you speak! I managed to avoid them but there were a few close shaves and they really weren't that different to the one replicated above.
With this equation in mind you can also easily see that any smaller bumps/uneveness on the paving is also exaggerated the smaller a wheel gets, so shock absorbtion, whether that is in gel gloves, a suspension handlepost, susp forks or susp hub are also things that become more attractive the smaller the wheel, especially for longer rides.
Note: percentages / angles are estimated :)
And of note - even a 700c wheel won't always save you:
http://www.ananova.com/images/web/277699.jpg
jur
02-13-08, 02:47 PM
LP - do you actually ride through potholes occasionally? I understand that one would normally steer around them. And what is the shape and size of those holes?
Here in Oz potholes might take 2 forms, one where the covering layer of bitumen has been eroded away to expose lower layers, so the worts case profile of the hole is squarish and perhaps an inch deep at most. The other type is rare and is where all of the bitumen has been eroded away exposing the gravel under layer wich likewise would erode away, leaving a deep pothole with steep edges. You hit one of those, it's game over.
LittlePixel
02-13-08, 02:52 PM
Jur - refresh your browser- I updated the image a bit!
I don't ride into these sort of holes (well I try not to) but it illustrates the greater imperative to avoid potholes on smaller wheels and also helps illustrate how small wheels eccentuate road 'noise' on less than glass-like surfaces...
Speedo
02-13-08, 03:31 PM
LP - do you actually ride through potholes occasionally? I understand that one would normally steer around them. And what is the shape and size of those holes?
Ah to live in a temperate zone beyond the reach of the freeze-and-thaw cycle.
Here near the coast in beautiful New England we get a lot of weather variability. In the past week we've had rain, snow, daytime temperatures up around 45F, and daytime temperatures around 10F. With all the water and thaws followed by hard freezes, any flaw in the pavement will lead to a pothole by spring. This time of year the roads are beginning to look like the lunar landscape. Crews will be out in the spring to fill them in, but until then it can get kind of rough.
I can steer around all of the pot holes that I know about. So, for example, on my commute I can dodge the worst of the potholes easily. But there are always new potholes, and every once in a while I get taken by surprise. On roads that I don't ride regularly I have to be vigilant. I can avoid most potholes, but every once in a while I hit one. I'm sorry to say that on some stretches of road, there ceases to be a clear path, and you've just got to ride through it.
On the commuter with big tires, it's a bump. On a fast bike with high pressure tires it can be jarring. On the BF with 20 inch tires it can be quite a bang. I'm a little concerned with how the Tikit will do with 16 inch wheels.
Speedo
jur
02-13-08, 03:37 PM
And of note - even a 700c wheel won't always save you:
http://www.ananova.com/images/web/277699.jpg
Heh heh, that must be why he is using a parachute! :D
rhm
02-14-08, 06:15 AM
Dantesays, I ride in Manhattan and occasionally down to Brooklyn College or over the Queensborough Bridge to the Hunterspoint Ave LIRR station all on my Downtube Mini, which is pretty similar to a Dahon Curve. I have not had any problems to speak of. I'm a little taller and a little lighter than you.
A couple of notes to LittlePixel's graphic:
1. Curve &co have 305 mm rims, even smaller than Brompton's 349's. This does not make much (or any?) practical difference if you keep the Curve's Big Apple tires, which are very nice.
2. That pothole was specially designed to swallow 16" wheels. Real NYC potholes are designed to swallow... well, let's not go there.
dantesays
02-14-08, 09:14 AM
Thanks for the feedback everyone. LittlePixel, great graphic. Rhm, yeah, some of our potholes would be called ditches in most cities. I'm not too concerned with the big ones; it's those borderline ones that I currently ride my mountainbike over without any thought that I'm thinking about. But overall, it looks like 20" and 16" are not worlds apart and I'll just need to get used to the feel of smaller wheels either way.
Dahon.Steve
02-14-08, 07:16 PM
Thanks for the feedback everyone. LittlePixel, great graphic. Rhm, yeah, some of our potholes would be called ditches in most cities. I'm not too concerned with the big ones; it's those borderline ones that I currently ride my mountainbike over without any thought that I'm thinking about. But overall, it looks like 20" and 16" are not worlds apart and I'll just need to get used to the feel of smaller wheels either way.
If there's no need to board the inside of a bus, then buy a 20' inch folder. It's faster, handles better and takes bumps and road abrasions better than a 16' inch wheel folder. At night, if your lights aren't bright enough to see the road, you'll be fishing for potholes.