Road Bike Racing - Bianchi furious at Ullrich's departure

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Dannihilator
10-06-03, 02:02 PM
Taken from www.cyclingnews.com

"Bianchi furious at Ullrich's departure
The sudden departure of Jan Ullrich back to Team Telekom has caused an angry reaction from Team Bianchi, which had counted on keeping the German for 2004. The future of the Dutch registered team without Ullrich is now very much up in the air.

"This has big consequences for us," said team manager Jacques Hanegraaf to AD. "I first have to talk with the sponsors for this changes everything. Ullrich was the reason why they put money into our team. It's a question of how much the team is worth without Jan Ullrich. That must become clear in the coming weeks."

Team Bianchi was formed out of the ashes of Team Coast, which collapsed earlier this year due to financial reasons. The team contested the Tour de France, where a rejuvenated Ullrich came the closest he has since 1997 of winning the Tour, eventually finishing second behind Lance Armstrong. Shortly after the Tour, Telekom renewed its interest in Der Jan, eventually convincing him to sign last weekend.

"I find it at the very least a little strange that Telekom approached Jan for a contract after the Tour," added Hanegraaf. "We had everything ready here for Jan, we have brought him back to the top and then this happens."

From Bianchi, Ullrich is also taking Tobias Steinhauser, Andrea Korff and Rudy Pevenage back to Telekom, although Pevenage will have to play a role as Ullrich's personal advisor rather than as a team director. "

A possible rivalry between Team Bianchi and Telekon in the making?


Laggard
10-06-03, 02:54 PM
Perhaps Bianchi should have given better support to Ulrich.

Vino's the one that is really hurt by this transaction.

Telekom looks to be pretty darn strong next year.

pinky
10-06-03, 02:57 PM
Rivalry? Who else is Bianchi going to sign that will allow them to compete with Telekom's squad? Wonder how much of Ulrich's leaving has to do with the final TT in the TdF when he kept trying to get the coach's car to back off?


SirSpinsalot
10-06-03, 04:07 PM
Why would a business become enraged over a smart business decision. Ullrich will need the stregnth of a team like Telecom to beat Lance. Small chance of Bianchi becoming a serious team by next TDF.

georgesnatcher
10-06-03, 04:49 PM
The Telekom you see today is not the Telekom you will see tomorrow. Yeah, Zabel will stay but what about the rest of the stars/leaders? Do you really think that Vinokourov, Evans, Botero etc will be water carriers for Ullrich?

roadbuzz
10-06-03, 06:34 PM
Perhaps Bianchi should have given better support to Ulrich.
No fair!

Under the circumstances that the team was formed, I don't think they can be faulted. Remember, they had to sell the ranch just to get Ullrich. They were scarcely able to put together sponsorship in what time they had. Coast had a pretty decent stable, but after the second suspension, the unpaid riders couldn't possibly justify staying aboard the burning ship. Ultimately, it was so late in the season, Bianchi would have been hard pressed to do better than they did. If anyone is to blame, it's Jan... he had offers to ride for much stronger teams, albeit not for the amount of money he wanted. Remember, too, that at the time he was a pig in a poke.

SamDaBikinMan
10-06-03, 08:09 PM
Ullrich is a ****ing traitor. After the strings that were pulled and all the juggling acts to get Bianchi team going and be invited to the tour he up and jumps ship. What a useless sack of $h!t. I really hope Lance burns him and his team up and grinds their bones into dust next year.

I was beginning to admire Ulrich but now want his @ss nailed to the cross for treason. He must be a descendant of some major Nazi family.

Hopefully the good riders will leave Telecom for other teams where they can compete for their own position and leave Jan with a bunch of pack fodder that can barely hang in the peloton.

TriDevil
10-06-03, 09:40 PM
In case you didnt notice, that seemed to be the group of riders Jan was riding with in the tour. How many times do you recall seeing another celeste jersey pulling Jan or covering attacks? As I count, zero. Hell, they didnt even warn him about some of the turns, remember the final time trial crash? You are basically faulting him for going to a team that will better help him accomplish his goal of dethroning armstrong. You would rather him stay on a team with sub-par help just so he honors some imaginary pact with bianchi? Team Telekom isnt now assigned to death because Jan is back. He is hardly going to be riding in every race telekom enters, trying to take sprints from zabel or hindering vino in the classics and such. I see it more as a Postal setup. Top men who do their own thing but come July its all work for one man. I say Jan made the smart decision and one that is probably making LA sweat just a little.

Ba-Dg-Er
10-07-03, 12:35 AM
Ullrich is a ****ing traitor. After the strings that were pulled and all the juggling acts to get Bianchi team going and be invited to the tour he up and jumps ship. What a useless sack of $h!t. I really hope Lance burns him and his team up and grinds their bones into dust next year.

I was beginning to admire Ulrich but now want his @ss nailed to the cross for treason. He must be a descendant of some major Nazi family.

Hopefully the good riders will leave Telecom for other teams where they can compete for their own position and leave Jan with a bunch of pack fodder that can barely hang in the peloton.

Cycling is a team sport and Bianchi proved to be a weak team so Ullrich made a career minded decision.

The same could be said for any other athlete that leaves a weak team for a stronger one, or even an employee who leaves a company that hired him/her with no experience and goes on to a bigger better company and uses that experience.

Lance would do the same thing if Postal didn't offer him the support they do. Any rider would. Settle down.

chaztrip
10-07-03, 05:35 AM
Rivalry? Who else is Bianchi going to sign that will allow them to compete with Telekom's squad? Wonder how much of Ulrich's leaving has to do with the final TT in the TdF when he kept trying to get the coach's car to back off?


Did I miss this? Did Ulrich ever say anything about this?

Laggard
10-07-03, 08:01 AM
I don't think he ever mentioned the team car that was 10 feet off his rear wheel. I think he's got too much class to publicly ***** about his team.

It was obvious though that he didn't have the best director in the peloton nor did he have the strongest team support. Not being told about a dangerous corner was but one example of this. On the other hand, Lance did the course before the TT and knew about it. Jan didn't. And I don't quite know who if anyone told him to attack on the 2nd to last climb on stage 15 in the TDF. It may have been his own idea or it may have been the directors. The fact that Jan is not know for being the greatest tactical rider leads me to believe the former.

georgesnatcher
10-07-03, 08:54 AM
If I'm not mistaken the person trying to give Jan a prostate exam with the car during the TT was Pevenage. Strange, if that was an issue why is he taking him to Telekom? :eek:

Laggard
10-07-03, 09:00 AM
I can't belive that "bit*h" is a censored word on this board.

~LongRider~
10-07-03, 03:33 PM
I was beginning to admire Ulrich but now want his @ss nailed to the cross for treason. He must be a descendant of some major Nazi family.

.

Many of us had Nazi family members. My last name is (Ruge) by the way. Thats the equivalent of (Smith), in german. :D I fail to recognize the significance of that? Jan wants to win. With a stronger team, who can deny that he could have won last TDF? He is doing what he feels is right for him. Telekom is more the traitor. They are a traitor to the current team. Ulrich will change everything there. I would love to see them work it out, where they could keep the top riders that are there currently. I dont see that happening though.

VegasCyclist
10-07-03, 06:32 PM
IMHO Jan has to go his own way, and if he can live with himself after he leaves a team which really worked hard to get something together for the TDF then I guess he can go. Telekom (which I thought was going to be called t-mobile from now on?) will be a strong team no doubt, however my question is if Bianchi will even remain a team for next year? who knows.... all sports have controversy I guess :o

Ba-Dg-Er
10-07-03, 06:41 PM
And I am certain Bianchi as a sponsor got no benefit from crowds of people seeing him on their bike and wearing their jerseys. A number of people purchased Bianchi jerseys and perhaps even bikes due to their exposure in the Tour de France this year. This is all that could truly be expected of Jan and he did the team and the sponsors proud with his performance.

Bianchi has secured nothing since the end of the Tour and could have easily fell into the same pit that Coast did this year. Then where would he have been. This was a smart business and career move no matter how you look at it, and no one has any right to be upset because in Jan's shoes anyone would have done the same thing.

Grampy™
10-07-03, 09:11 PM
Ullrich is a ****ing traitor. After the strings that were pulled and all the juggling acts to get Bianchi team going and be invited to the tour he up and jumps ship. What a useless sack of $h!t. I really hope Lance burns him and his team up and grinds their bones into dust next year.

I was beginning to admire Ulrich but now want his @ss nailed to the cross for treason. He must be a descendant of some major Nazi family.

Hopefully the good riders will leave Telecom for other teams where they can compete for their own position and leave Jan with a bunch of pack fodder that can barely hang in the peloton.


I'm not sure I'd put it quite this harshly, but agree in principle. It's part of the "Team Leader's" responsibility to Make the team strong. Imho. Not look for a strong team and jump ship.

Last April/May/June who wanted Jan? Bianchi bailed his posterior out, he should show some loyalty.

Revenig
10-08-03, 12:47 AM
With the addition of Ullrich, won't this bring added stress to T-Mobile to work hard on the flat stages for Zabel and then turn around and work hard for Ullrich in the mountain stages? I've only watched four Grand Tours so far and I'm wondering which teams have or had a successful GC contender and a successful sprinter at the same time?

roadwarrior
10-08-03, 05:34 AM
Cycling is a team sport and Bianchi proved to be a weak team so Ullrich made a career minded decision.

The same could be said for any other athlete that leaves a weak team for a stronger one, or even an employee who leaves a company that hired him/her with no experience and goes on to a bigger better company and uses that experience.

Lance would do the same thing if Postal didn't offer him the support they do. Any rider would. Settle down.


When Michael Schumacher went to Ferarri, Ferarri had not won a world championship in over 20 years. Michael was offered the opportunity to select who he wanted around him to develop the team, then develop the cars and engines, then go win.

Ullrich may have had that opportunity with Bianchi. How about building the team up rather than running off? Some people are not leaders, but just really good riders.

Lance and Bruyneel decide who rides for Postal. "The support" you refer to is mostly Lance deciding who gets on the team. Lance controls a lot of what goes on there and his efforts provide a lot of jobs. It is not magic. And since Lance wins, lots of companies want to provide sponsorship to help so that they can sign the best riders. Like Coast rider Beltran.

Who would you rather ride for? Armstrong or Ullrich?

See the difference? There is a reason why some riders seem to be on the lower steps of the podium most of the time when it counts.

BTW...I suspect that, if not for Bianchi, Ullrich would be eating strudel and looking like Jabba the Hut.

Funny how Telekom was not interested when Jan was in trouble. Hopefully, he can make it through the off-season, intact.

roadwarrior
10-08-03, 05:40 AM
Bianchi has secured nothing since the end of the Tour

Neither has Postal.

Hopefully, you are not putting them in the same boat.

The issue is that Lance puts his team together and wins. Jan goes where the money is, hopes for the best with the team and watches Lance win.

One controls his environment.

One is controlled by his environment.

See the difference?

chaztrip
10-08-03, 07:10 AM
Ok so Jan goes where the money is? Forgive as I am not as keen to this sport as some.. but did not his team let him down in some respects Like the ITT and not telling him about the conditions?? and the coach/manager? is it really all about the money for Jan? or is REALLY trying to win?

I think with all the offseason moves here Tyler moving and Jan to try and "better their chances" is just going to motivate Lance all that much more. I say Lance still wins next year

Ba-Dg-Er
10-08-03, 10:33 AM
Neither has Postal.


They aready have a solid team and sponsers secured .... Lance has built that over the years. Certainly Ullrich could have stayed with Bianchi and tried the same thing and maybe he should have since Telekom dumped him last year. But the fact is that Bianchi could have ended their sponsorship just as Coast did and I think Ullrich felt he had more security with a tried and true team like Telekom.

georgesnatcher
10-08-03, 10:44 AM
I think Jan just wants to be with a German team. I can't blame him, makes sense to me. When Jan originally left Telekom everyone said he's going to CSC, wrong. He went to Coast, which at least at that time was a German team. When Coast imploded he was left with an Italian sponsor, a German registered team and mainly Spanish riders. Now he returns to Telekom/T-Mobile. What does he have? What he wanted all along, a German team, a German sponsor, and a lot of German riders.

lotek
10-08-03, 01:00 PM
but did not his team let him down in some respects Like the ITT and not telling him about the conditions?? and the coach/manager?
And who was in the car behind Jan? Rudy Pevanage who he is dragging around
to every team he goes to. The team didn't let Jan down in the ITT, the Director
Sportif (Pevenage?) knew who had fallen and where.
The difference here is pretty clear, Lance got up and drove the course with
Bruyneel, Jan slept in and watched a video of the course (while eating strudel
und Schnitzel und lots of wurst? :D ). as stated above one controls his environment one is controlled by it.
Jan
Marty

Ba-Dg-Er
10-08-03, 05:24 PM
From CyclingNews ...

Der Jan is back in the fold

After spending a year out of competition and a year riding for another team, Jan Ullrich has returned to the team where he spent almost the entire length of his career: Team Telekom, which will be renamed T-Mobile in 2004. The 1997 Tour winner and reigning Olympic champion closed a three year deal on Saturday reported to be worth €2.5 million a year. But it wasn't just the money that attracted Jan back to the Telekom fold - the security and strength of the big budget German team were of equal importance, as Ullrich wants to have everything in order for his assault on next year's Tour de France and beyond.

At a press conference in Bonn today, Ullrich answered journalists' questions and discussed his future goals. The deciding factor on his return to Telekom? "Actually I've finished second in the Tour de France too often," laughed Ullrich. "Jokes aside, I really want to tackle the next few years properly, and for that I simply need a team that supports me and can motivate me as well. Now I have the strongest team in the world behind me. I am certain that my return to Telekom was the correct thing to do.

Ullrich didn't consider this year wasted however. "I needed the trip to Coast and Bianchi to mature," he said. "I wanted to do things differently than 2002, to experience new things and perhaps to broaden my horizons. The step was crucially important for me. Now I see cycling with completely different eyes and know that I can win the Tour again."

Ullrich believes that it will be easy to fit in with his former teammates, especially Erik Zabel and Alexandre Vinokourov "who have always asked me when I'm coming back. I don't think there will be any problems in future because I have the feeling that the boys are happy to have me back in the ranks. In the Tour, we will be even more unpredictable for Lance Armstrong, because we have several people who can threaten him. I think he'll have to change his tactics a bit. That's a big advantage for us."

Speaking of the Tour, it's not the only thing on Ullrich's mind for 2004. "I also have the Olympic Games in Athens in focus. There I want to defend the gold medal I won three years ago in the road race in Sydney. Those that know me, know I am always in top form in the weeks after the Tour."

As for his new team director Walter Godefroot, Ullrich said that "Walter always believed in me and left the door open. That meant a lot to me." Also, "My girlfriend Gaby stood fully behind me. She has also had a tough time and is now happy that we have security in the next three years."

The future is not yet clear for Jan's mentor for the past nine years Rudy Pevenage, who has been offered a contract by Jan as a personal advisor, but not formal position within T-Mobile. "Everyone knows that I have collaborated with him well for nine years and he has also had a big share in my successes. Rudy must now decide whether he wants to go further."

roadwarrior
10-09-03, 04:03 AM
No, he does not have the strongest team in the world behind him, unless there was a coup and he is now riding as Lance's domestique. The team that won two of the three grand tours this year is the strongest team. Jan's new team could not support Vino in the last Tour.

And how long before Vinokourov and Botero fly out of Telekom? Think Vino's gonna ride as Jan's flunky??? Botero? Julich's contract's up this year...Vino's going to ride for three years as a domestique? Uh huh..

and the Pevanage comment is right on...Jan keeps lugging around the same group everywhere he goes...it's almost getting funny.

chewa
10-09-03, 04:21 AM
I think he's done the right thing. With a better team behind him JU would have won the TdF this year and I hope he realises his dream next year.

As to all the comments about his eating, well just how incredible is it that a guy who can let himself go is still (one of )the (two) best bike riders in the world

ParamountScapin
10-09-03, 04:36 AM
Hey, Chewa - you can't post things like that. This is LA's forum.

Just kidding (of course).

Will be very interesting to see what Vino and Botero do. Can't see them hanging around, either.

I almost went out and bought a Bianchi this summer just to support their team. While not a big JU fan, I thought what Bianchi did was good for the sport. But pro teams seem to be dropping like flys. I don't blame JU. He may well have won the TdF with a more professionally run team. But that may have been his team-mates rather than the operation of the team. Just don't understand the personnel baggage he hauls around (Pevenage). But that is his business.

Go LANCE!!! Six in a row!

lotek
10-09-03, 07:11 AM
I REALLY want to see Bianchi succeed as a team.
Its an old, established marque with a rich history. I'm surprized that they couldn't find cosponsors given they had JU, and a credible 2nd place in the tour.
JU would do well to read ParamountScapin's sig line (no not the paranoia thing, although its true). Pevanage
is the albatros around JU's neck.
I'd be proud to ride a Bianchi, specifically a 1975 - 1980 specialissima!

Marty

EastCoast
10-09-03, 07:29 AM
I'm a Bianchi owner and purchased the Bianchi Team jersey and bibs, but Jan has to look out for himself. I will miss him not wearing the Bianchi green, but I truely understand he must do what's best for himself.

Walter
10-09-03, 12:18 PM
Does seem to be a bit of a me too Lance thread doesn't it?

T-Mobile with JU is a very strong team and can be competetive the entire season fom the Classics to the GTs and that makes them pretty near unique. They're the only team, it seems, except USPS with the $ to sign the riders it needs/wants and that's crucial. How many TdFs does LA win w/o people like Heras? This past year Beltran was [/I]the[I] difference. That was money well spent and who can blame JU if he wants to go to a team willing/able to do the same.

I'm more than a bit hopeful of a JU win next summer, all of the LA cheerleading is a tad old.

roadwarrior
10-10-03, 05:30 AM
Does seem to be a bit of a me too Lance thread doesn't it?

T-Mobile with JU is a very strong team and can be competetive the entire season fom the Classics to the GTs and that makes them pretty near unique. They're the only team, it seems, except USPS with the $ to sign the riders it needs/wants and that's crucial. How many TdFs does LA win w/o people like Heras? This past year Beltran was [/I]the[I] difference. That was money well spent and who can blame JU if he wants to go to a team willing/able to do the same.

I'm more than a bit hopeful of a JU win next summer, all of the LA cheerleading is a tad old.

uhhhh...that's why they call it a "team" sport with "team" tactics.

And, no, it was Rubiera that was the difference with Beltran helping him. Heras had a health issue, but still fininshed the race. But he was not himself. So with an injured Armstrong and a sick Heras, the team was still strong enough to win.

But on Luz Ardiden, and in the final time trial, it was Lance who made the ultimate difference. Because that's what a leader does. And that's how you get good riders to want to sign on with your team. Becasue they know they can work their asses off because the leader is a winner.

~LongRider~
10-10-03, 08:32 AM
In the past, Jan's commitment to training had been suspect. Why would good rider's want to run support for someone that doesnt even try their hardest? Last year, things changed, and Jan put forth the effort. Lance has put forth that level of effort his entire career.

Alex33
10-10-03, 09:18 AM
One thing that will be interesting to watch is how Telekom/T-Mobile will "spread the wealth" among the grand tours. They have a lot of GC contenders on their roster already and they'll probably want to participate in more than just the TdF.

I assume Zabel and Ullrich are the obvious first choices for TdF, but would they pile on the same roster Vino, Cadel Evans, Botero and Paolo Salvodelli? What about a couple of guys to lead out Zabel for sprint finishes (granted, he doesn't seem to need a big train like Cipo)? What about guys who will keep a high tempo on the flats or chase breakaways (like Hincapie)? What about solid guys to help on the TTT (like Ekimov)?

I hate to keep referring back to Postal, but over the past few years they're the team that seemed to find the right balance of climbers, TT specialists and good overall domestiques. Of course, one of the key parts is that the only focus is on the overall win for only one member (LA), they don't worry about stage wins.

chewa
10-10-03, 09:34 AM
I'm just amazed about how a thread about JU can feature so much of LA!!

SamDaBikinMan
10-10-03, 09:59 AM
I'm just amazed about how a thread about JU can feature so much of LA!!

Probably because the past years of JU's racing has been chasing (unsuccesfully) LA and seeing a lot of LA's rear end.

JU is defined by his chase of LA. He will be defined by it for a long time to come as well. All the hype about JU's fitness level during TDF's only to continue to trail behind LA. I love it when I hear commentators make claim that Jan is the strongest rider in the peloton or is at his best ever only to be beaten again and again by Lance.

Jan should become a domestique for Vino or Botero.

roadwarrior
10-10-03, 02:15 PM
Probably because the past years of JU's racing has been chasing (unsuccesfully) LA and seeing a lot of LA's rear end.

JU is defined by his chase of LA. He will be defined by it for a long time to come as well. All the hype about JU's fitness level during TDF's only to continue to trail behind LA. I love it when I hear commentators make claim that Jan is the strongest rider in the peloton or is at his best ever only to be beaten again and again by Lance.

Jan should become a domestique for Vino or Botero.

Sam...quoting from Rick Reilly, "They should have buried Lance Armstrong this time. They laid him out like a yard sale on a Pyrenees road. Had him sick, white mouthed and dizzy. Had him riding in the weeds, riding borrowed bikes and cracked bikes. Hell, once they had him CARRYING his bike. Had him scabbed and swollen, hip throbbing, saddle sores mounting, out of water and luck and hope.
But they didn't bury him. Couldn't."

"And this was Armstrong's great, great win in that he still wound up best, even at his worst. This was his Michael Jordan, Game 5, Salt Lake City, food poisoning. This was the year that Armstrong beat them aching, beat them dumb, beat them unlucky.
They won't get him like this again."

"So, no they didn't bury him. Lance Armstrong once had 14 tumors in him and a 40% chance to live. If cancer can't bury him, a bunch of guys in Lycra shorts have no chance."

After his 1999 win, I was at a dinner and reception and I had a chance to speak with Lance. I asked him about Sestriere, the effort in the cold and rain. He told me that after chemo, bike racing is nothing.
Perspective.

Only nine more months until the trip to #6 begins.

brent_dube
10-10-03, 03:08 PM
Probably because the past years of JU's racing has been chasing (unsuccesfully) LA and seeing a lot of LA's rear end.

JU is defined by his chase of LA. He will be defined by it for a long time to come as well. All the hype about JU's fitness level during TDF's only to continue to trail behind LA. I love it when I hear commentators make claim that Jan is the strongest rider in the peloton or is at his best ever only to be beaten again and again by Lance.

Jan should become a domestique for Vino or Botero.

Jan is the strongest rider. I guess the only race you watch is the TDF. In any other race, Lance wouldnt stand a chance against JU. JU is a better all round rider.

I say this and I'm a big LA fan.


With the addition of Ullrich, won't this bring added stress to T-Mobile to work hard on the flat stages for Zabel and then turn around and work hard for Ullrich in the mountain stages? I've only watched four Grand Tours so far and I'm wondering which teams have or had a successful GC contender and a successful sprinter at the same time?

although times have changed... the team did the same thing with Zabel and Ullrich sucessfully in the past.

SamDaBikinMan
10-10-03, 06:12 PM
Jan is the strongest rider. I guess the only race you watch is the TDF. In any other race, Lance wouldnt stand a chance against JU. JU is a better all round rider.

I say this and I'm a big LA fan.



Listen to what you are saying. JU is the strongest but cannot beat Lance in the most prestigious race of the year. I am sure if you asked JU which race he most wanted to win it would be the TDF without a doubt.

Jan Races into form for the tour, Lance focuses his training and races a few select before the tour. It is nothing more than two different ways of preparing for the biggest bike race of all.

IF JU is the strongest then Lance would have been stopped already by him. Lance regularly beats Jan at what is considered Jans speciality, the ITT.

What more evidence do you need?

roadwarrior
10-11-03, 04:01 AM
Jan is the strongest rider. I guess the only race you watch is the TDF. In any other race, Lance wouldnt stand a chance against JU. JU is a better all round rider.

This is a very good example of what Sherlock Holmes was referring to when he said, "Everybody sees, but few perceive."

Ullrich, head to head has only beaten Lance once in the ITT.

Has Ullrich ever beaten Lance up a mountain?

Please tell us how your statement is correct? Evidence???

Walter
10-11-03, 06:42 AM
I hesitate to point this out to someone who has a Nike ad as their signature but there was an Olympic Road Race a few years back.....

However, I would not argue that JU is a better overall rider as I believe that LA has shown himself to be better on several occasions now. With a better team this year might have been different for JU but that's speculation.

LA is in the position due to his stature and his team sponsors that his "season" can be and is the TdF. Riding primarily for US sponsors that makes sense. The TdF is the only bike race widely known in the US. Now there's absolutely no doubt that LA is dominant in France but for other riders riding for other sponsors they don't have the option to structure their season the way LA does.

My pick for the best rider in 2003? Bettini. He's won in May and he might jut win in October.

shokhead
10-11-03, 07:12 AM
Isnt this getting old yet?Hell its almost time for the 04 TDF.Get over it.LA won so everybody move on.

Laggard
10-11-03, 09:48 AM
Isnt this getting old yet?.

Watch what you say. I posted the same thing once (after 4 pages of "did Jan wait?") and was nearly ripped to shreds.

Anyway, as someone already said, Bettini is the best bike racer in the world right now. Or maybe I'm just stuck back in the time when you raced from February to October.

brent_dube
10-11-03, 10:05 AM
Has Ullrich ever beaten Lance up a mountain?


stage 16, year 2000. Stage 13, this year...

~LongRider~
10-11-03, 02:32 PM
So Ullrich is 2 for ????????????????? on mountains. :D I dont think that is a good argument. I bet if they raced to a bag of amphedrine, Ullrich would win. :D

Piratello
10-13-03, 03:45 AM
I didnīt believe the rumours that Ullrich was planning to go back.
And I donīt know if this is a good decision, he didnīt leave for nothing and I think this year was good to him.
On the other side I can understand that he couldnīt need this kind of insecurity Bianchi seems to have provided him.
So letīs just wait and see.

By the way, please stop that nazi-paranoia.

Cheers,
Marcus

georgesnatcher
10-13-03, 05:31 AM
I think Jan left Telekom originally for two reasons. One, Pevenage was being forced out. Two, he was upset at being publically hung out to dry by the sponsor and the team.
Now why is he going back? He wants to win the TDF. He would never do that with Bianchi. They are not strong enough. He wants to ride for a German team. Why not Gerolsteiner? They are not strong enough to win the TDF.
The big thing here to me is Jan wants to win the Tour. The number of teams he can do this with is very limited. That he came close with Bianchi is a testament to what a great rider he is. Imagine if he had been with Telekom this year.

SamDaBikinMan
10-13-03, 07:26 AM
The big thing here to me is Jan wants to win the Tour. The number of teams he can do this with is very limited. That he came close with Bianchi is a testament to what a great rider he is. Imagine if he had been with Telekom this year.

Telecom could not win it before with him. Why now? They have too many mavericks, they split the work up between Zabel and whoever the GC contender is and that weakens them. They need to concert the effort on one goal.

I will admit that with undivided focus of the team Jan probably can win. But will this happen on Telecom?

georgesnatcher
10-13-03, 09:01 AM
Before Telekom had their attention split between two goals in theTDF. The first was the GC. The second was the points competition. If you look at the results since Riis first won the Tour they have a remarkable record. A win or podium finish and/or the green jersey every year.
Now, Zabel has not won the green jersey for two years.It would seem that Telekom has to realize that those days are over. Where do you think their emphasis will be now? I think the only thing they will be looking at is getting the GC.

Ba-Dg-Er
10-29-03, 10:57 PM
From CyclingNews:

Ullrich's transfer could cost him

Jan Ullrich's transfer from Team Bianchi to the Telekom cycling team could cost him €600,000 in lost salary, German newspaper Bild reports. Ullrich, who signed a contract worth approximately €1.7 million this year, has allegedly not been paid by Bianchi since August, and there has already been threatening correspondence between Ullrich and Bianchi team manager Jacques Hanegraaf. If Ullrich isn't paid until December 31, 2003, he will effectively lose €600,000.

"It's incredible that there have been money problems around Jan for the entire season," said Telekom's spokesman Olaf Ludwig to Bild. "First in Coast, now in Bianchi. There's never been such a thing like that."

Team Bianchi is reportedly taking legal action against Ullrich and Telekom, after Ullrich was presented with his new team on October 23. According to Ludwig, "If a rider leaves us, he can be presented in his new team, but certainly not be seen in the jersey of his new employer in photos."