Southern California - OC Register Article...

What Word in 'Bike Lane' Don't Drivers Understand?

http://www.ocregister.com/sports/david-whiting-orange-1979972-county-road

Edited to add...the comments on OC Register's site are already predictable. :(

I love the comments that imply that "trying to avoid life-threatening injury" is "whining."

How long until someone posts "ride on the sidewalk?"

Drivers are [sometimes] idiots. Then again, i too am disappointed when i see the occasional idiot cyclist out on the road too...

I still think both sides are trying to tell each other to use their senses (both common and perceptual) so they don't have to... :(

At the risk of ending up in A&S, I would love to see curb separation of bike lanes in certain places where it's appropriate - regular commuter routes downtown, as an example. Unfortunately, that's not where the most significant safety issues appear to be.

It's not practical (or desirable) to have bike lane separation in all areas, but if they put a bike lane curb in through the Sepulveda pass or on the PCH through Malibu, I'd be all for it. I love those long stretches of bike lane in OC and SD counties (can't remember the exact location - there's one between Dana Point and San Clemente, I think?)

I attended traffic school last fall because, um , err, well the speed limit is just too low in some places far from bike lanes, like the 73 toll road... Anyway, it was interesting to me that two people in the class reported that they were there because they were cited for driving cars in bike lanes. I was pleased that there was some enforcement activity in that regard, but dismayed at the attitude of those two drivers, and a large portion of the class, that these were BS tickets that should never be issued. The class instructor did a good job of pointing out that a car can only enter a bike lane 200 feet before a turn and then must merge with bicycle traffic.

Over the years, I've spent a lot of time riding bicycles and motorcycles on the public highways and no matter the laws or enforcement, there is no substitute for staying aware and not taking unneccessary risks.

It's not practical (or desirable) to have bike lane separation in all areas, but if they put a bike lane curb in through the Sepulveda pass or on the PCH through Malibu, I'd be all for it. I love those long stretches of bike lane in OC and SD counties (can't remember the exact location - there's one between Dana Point and San Clemente, I think?)

+1 Sepulveda could use one for sure although I still wouldn't go on it at rush hour peak times. Too many crazy drivers on that particular stretch up and out of the valley.

Wow tons of stupidity in those comments. My favorite
"cotoequestrienn wrote:
Most of the cyclists I encounter these days have an attitude that they have the right of way, even if not in a bike lane. Drivers now have to drive defensively to avoid these biking morons. Especially those that travel in packs. They usually never stay in their lane but ride side by side and take up whole car lanes. Their arrogance is astounding, considering they put their lives on the line. Makes me want to just mow them down sometimes."

Damn those cyclists that force poor motorists to drive responsibly! :rolleyes:
I am pretty sure most people in OC have no clue what the rules of the road actually are. Getting drivers license here is a joke.

How long until someone posts "ride on the sidewalk?"

Funny you should mention that. I spoke to the Santa Ana Police Department's Instructor who teaches bicycle safety in elementary schools in Santa Ana. When I asked what he felt would be a safe route from Placentia to an intersection on Fairview just south of Santa Ana he responded:

:eek: "You should ride on the sidewalk." :eek:

So, even within the police departments comprehension of the "law" or "code" leaves a lot to be desired. The California Highway Patrol will focus on the HOV lanes to make sure that no one is driving with only one passenger and the fines are daunting. Why can't the police departments begin to enforce existing law with regard to bicycle lanes? I just don't get it!

Wow tons of stupidity in those comments. My favorite
"cotoequestrienn wrote:
Most of the cyclists I encounter these days have an attitude that they have the right of way, even if not in a bike lane. Drivers now have to drive defensively to avoid these biking morons. Especially those that travel in packs. They usually never stay in their lane but ride side by side and take up whole car lanes. Their arrogance is astounding, considering they put their lives on the line. Makes me want to just mow them down sometimes."

Damn those cyclists that force poor motorists to drive responsibly! :rolleyes:
I am pretty sure most people in OC have no clue what the rules of the road actually are. Getting drivers license here is a joke.

Come on though, with our bikes that weigh "ounces" and their cars that weigh tons, we just aren't using any common sense. We should all ride on paths. ;)

A ton of ignorance, but I do have to agree with the attitude that some cyclists have. I've ridden with enough people to witness an awful lot of bad/inconsiderate/illegal riding habits. Blowing through busy intersections, cutting across lanes without signaling their intention, turning left without the right of way.

It never excuses putting someone's safety at risk, but cyclists need to also be aware of the bad perceptions motorists have because of breaking laws ourselves. Educating motorists of what rights cyclists have to the road goes a lot further when cyclists are similarly following the laws.

(and yes, I know we're almost all motorists/cyclists, I'm really referring to those people who are motorists but aren't cyclists)

A ton of ignorance, but I do have to agree with the attitude that some cyclists have. I've ridden with enough people to witness an awful lot of bad/inconsiderate/illegal riding habits. Blowing through busy intersections, cutting across lanes without signaling their intention, turning left without the right of way.

It never excuses putting someone's safety at risk, but cyclists need to also be aware of the bad perceptions motorists have because of breaking laws ourselves. Educating motorists of what rights cyclists have to the road goes a lot further when cyclists are similarly following the laws.

(and yes, I know we're almost all motorists/cyclists, I'm really referring to those people who are motorists but aren't cyclists)


Exactly. Follow all the same traffic rules when you ride. Keeps you predictible and safer and won't give the people around you a legit reason to get pissed off at you (or cyclists in general).

UmneDurak

Add to that a giant contingent of motorists that do not have a license or insurance, let alone having taken a driving test, there should be a lot for motorists and cyclists to be concerned about.

A friend of mine is a CHP Officer and has told me to avoid certain parts of OC on Friday and Saturday evenings due to a high number of DUI's.

Do we have the obligation to report offending motorists who are infringing on bike lanes as if we would a drunk driver?

Could we, like the author in the OC Register, stake out an area that is known to have problems and document it for the local police department and ask that they have their motor officers target the area.

How much is the fine for crossing over into a bike lane?

Joel, I do understand that some cyclists make us look bad and then some motorists lump all of us into one category. That is exactly why I try to acknowledge each person that makes eye contact with me, throw a wave out to those that slow down and wait behind me instead of cut me off, etc. I guess I hold hope that if I let them know that they did the right thing and I appreciate it, that they will remember my acknowledgement and continue to drive safely around cyclists.

Joel, I do understand that some cyclists make us look bad and then some motorists lump all of us into one category. That is exactly why I try to acknowledge each person that makes eye contact with me, throw a wave out to those that slow down and wait behind me instead of cut me off, etc. I guess I hold hope that if I let them know that they did the right thing and I appreciate it, that they will remember my acknowledgement and continue to drive safely around cyclists.
Totally - how many studies have shown that positive reinforcement of good behavior is far more effective than punishing unwanted behavior? :)

A&S is full of this stuff, and it'll never end.

I personally think bike lanes are the worst invention in the history of cycling.
They institutionalize the "inferiority" of cyclists in the eyes of most motorists.
Most drivers seem to think that cyclist don't actually have equal rights to the road and
bike lanes reinforce that idea. I've actually had people tell me I'm not "allowed" to ride a particular road
because there's no bike lane. How the hell do convince them?

If you really want to p*ss off some driver remind them that they have no "right" to drive, that it's
a privledge granted by the state and it can be taken away. A cyclist on the other hand has
a constititional right to use public roads, no license required.

A&S is full of this stuff, and it'll never end.
A&S scares me...

A&S is full of this stuff, and it'll never end.

I personally think bike lanes are the worst invention in the history of cycling.
They institutionalize the "inferiority" of cyclists in the eyes of most motorists.
Most drivers seem to think that cyclist don't actually have equal rights to the road and
bike lanes reinforce that idea. I've actually had people tell me I'm not "allowed" to ride a particular road
because there's no bike lane. How the hell do convince them?

If you really want to p*ss off some driver remind them that they have no "right" to drive, that it's
a privledge granted by the state and it can be taken away. A cyclist on the other hand has
a constititional right to use public roads, no license required.

I understand your point Cassave. Bike lanes are a catch-22. Personally, I love when you're in a bike lane and then it suddenly disappears in a somewhat precarious spot (like traffic merging in from the right) and then it reappears a little bit down the road. It's those times that I think...why bother making a bike lane in the first place? Not because I don't know how to negotiate the situation, but because I think it confuses motorists.

Clearly, I was at fault for actually paying attention to that driver's turn signal.:rolleyes:

Yeah, there's no way to win with some people.
If you ride predictably and practice (I hate this term) Vehicular Cycling,
you'll be in traffic, in left turn lanes, in the same places a car would be in the same
circumstance and drivers will think you're out of place and should be on the sidewalk.
If you stay in your place and play gutter bunny in some bikelane they'll just cut you off
if they need to be where you are.

Ride like you're bloody invisible and everyone is out to kill you.
Personally I'm VERY aggressive in traffic and I don't hesitate to take my right of way
and make maneuvers cars can't, but only AFTER I make eye contact and let them know what
my intentions are.

When I'm in a car with someone who drifts into the bike lane (kinda easy to do because in my area they are wide as heck), I tell them, "but what if I was in the lane and you hit me?"

They never do it again. Well, not when I'm around anyway. :p

A ton of ignorance, but I do have to agree with the attitude that some cyclists have. I've ridden with enough people to witness an awful lot of bad/inconsiderate/illegal riding habits. Blowing through busy intersections, cutting across lanes without signaling their intention, turning left without the right of way.

It never excuses putting someone's safety at risk, but cyclists need to also be aware of the bad perceptions motorists have because of breaking laws ourselves. Educating motorists of what rights cyclists have to the road goes a lot further when cyclists are similarly following the laws.

(and yes, I know we're almost all motorists/cyclists, I'm really referring to those people who are motorists but aren't cyclists)


+1. Very well said.

everytime i ride with a group and someone does something stupid, say the same thing: that's why everyone hates us.

everytime i ride with a group and someone does something stupid, say the same thing: that's why everyone hates us.

I totally agree Jason. I see it all the time.I was on my way to the train station to pick up George after work tonight and as soon as I turned onto Alton, I watched this guy blow FOUR different lights in that many blocks before he cut across into the left lane and blew that one too. I was thisclose to saying something to him at the train station when I got there, but then I would have had to leave my car in the unloading zone unattended. :p

My point is, you're right...I see it all the time and it sucks for those of us that do obey the traffic laws and are courteous and "safe" cyclists.

I actually was wondering today if an article like this and the ensuing comments do more harm than good for us.

I actually was wondering today if an article like this and the ensuing comments do more harm than good for us.
I don't think enough people read it to make a difference one way or another (especially the comments on the website).

It's not just bike lanes that are ignored. I don't know how many times I've seen motorists cross into carpool lanes when they aren't supposed to, take turns out of sequence, and just drive like they haven't got a clue.

The world and OC in particular is filled with the wrong kind of people. The comments are ludicrous, especially the idiots who believe that we should just ride bike trails... that is the equivalent of telling people that they shouldn't share a freeway with a semi because he is so much bigger than them in their puny car.. The best thing for cowards is to stay home, be scared and if you have to venture out just stick to country roads where there are less semi trucks... completely lame and astoundingly stupid logic.

I actually was wondering today if an article like this and the ensuing comments do more harm than good for us.
I don't think there's a large population reading the comments, but there's probably a lot more people reading the print article. Based on this and his previous cycling articles, I believe the writer is well-meaning and trying to increase awareness. But in my view, it backfires in part because he focuses on the wrong issues and makes cycling seem much more risky than it is.

For this specific case of drivers crossing into the bike lane on a curve on Santiago Canyon, his "experiment" is a joke because he's not making a comparison with and without cyclists at the curve when drivers are passing. He doesn't consider a driver might be a bit sloppy with the turn if sees a clear road ahead, yet if that same driver sees cyclists ahead he's going to be much more careful when making the turn. Not that being sloppy on the turn is acceptable or excusable, but if one's going to write an article about motorists and bike lanes, there's a lot of other points that would be higher up on my list (drivers not knowing how to make right turns across the bike lane, some bad bike lane designs, the debris that gathers in them, etc.).

Well, they did quote that psychotic 3F bike club mark warrick creep, so it at least harmed the credibility of the article.

More of warrick's garbage: warrick weirdness (http://www.george-gonzalez.info/)

Public roads are public spaces. Everyone has a right to them, but certain restrictions apply.

Unfortunately, the only people who really understand this is the cycling community.

The only thing I can think of that would change this is to have more education in this area during the written portion of the drivers license examination. Not only to explain cyclists rights to motorists, but so that people understand why they can't drive a car without proper insurance, etc.

The only thing I can think of that would change this is to have more education in this area during the written portion of the drivers license examination. Not only to explain cyclists rights to motorists, but so that people understand why they can't drive a car without proper insurance, etc.

I've often thought that same thing myself.

the state would never pay that much to make one segment of the population a little safer.

Thanks very much for reading, sharing and discussing. Maybe through incremental awareness we can save a few lives along the way. Here's a link to more columns, including cycling.
http://www.ocregister.com/section/david-whitingpeople-and-1545642-places/
If you're interested in a weekly note about the latest column toss me an email. All address are confidential. Trying to build an Outdoors Community here and discussions are just the start. I'm at dwhiting@ocregister.com

Thanks very much for reading, sharing and discussing. Maybe through incremental awareness we can save a few lives along the way. Here's a link to more columns, including cycling.
http://www.ocregister.com/section/david-whitingpeople-and-1545642-places/
If you're interested in a weekly note about the latest column toss me an email. All address are confidential. Trying to build an Outdoors Community here and discussions are just the start. I'm at dwhiting@ocregister.com

Welcome to Bike Forums!

I'm enjoying reading Brandy's calm, level-headed comments on the article vs. trolls that would give Ovoleg a run for his money... they ignore the topic (ie. safe driving) and have turned it into a vent session for everything about bicycles that annoys them.

Just sent a note to David. I'd love to see something that explores WHY there seems to be such an "anti-cyclist" feeling in certain areas. While I certainly get the occasional honk or rude comment, it's few and far between in the areas I ride (mostly LA and Ventura counties). It seems to happen with much more regularity in Riverside or Orange County.

I'd love to see something that explores WHY there seems to be such an "anti-cyclist" feeling in certain areas. While I certainly get the occasional honk or rude comment, it's few and far between in the areas I ride (mostly LA and Ventura counties). It seems to happen with much more regularity in Riverside or Orange County.

+1

Joel, I was thinking the same thing. In my area (South Bay/PV) I find most motorists to be very accommodating and respectful on the road. Although I've heard (secondhand) of a few bad instances, I've never personally felt threatened or in danger when I ride.

On the other hand, I've only ridden solo in Orange County/Huntington Beach once and I couldn't believe the amount of abuse heaped upon me from drivers. I had teenagers in an SUV swerve towards me while I was in the bike lane, someone rolled down their window and threw a cup of juice on me, and another guy went out of his way to call me the c-word. Did I just pick the wrong day???

I'm not sure why it's so different. I thought it could be that people in the South Bay/Westside are more used to high-density living, plus its so crammed there (with so many stop signs/lights) that no one can expect to drive at any significant speed anyway. We certainly don't have the wide open spaces + high traffic speeds of OC.

Having logged almost 50 hours of riding here in Orange County in January, I have to be honest and say that I don't encounter a whole lot of verbal hostility. An occassional honking of the horn, yes, but that's it. What I do encounter is inattentive or ignorant drivers putting me in danger by turning in front of me or passing too closely...or stopping in the bike lane to talk on their phones or let passengers out. Love that last one. Grrrrrrrrr.

I'm enjoying reading Brandy's calm, level-headed comments on the article vs. trolls that would give Ovoleg a run for his money... they ignore the topic (ie. safe driving) and have turned it into a vent session for everything about bicycles that annoys them.

Thanks Joel. It's hard to bite my tongue when most of the arguments are so illogical.

Welcome to Bike Forums!

+1 Welcome. :) I read your article and the comments in this thread and think it a good discussion (minus one or two off-handed remarks).

Thanks for checking out the column. Some are under the impression this is a one-time deal. It's not. Please stay tuned for many, many more. Or check out some of more than 150 columns I've written on cyclists, racing, safety, etc. I'm also building out this site to help build an O.C. Outdoors community: http://www.ocregister.com/section/david-whitingpeople-and-1545642-places/