Bicycle Mechanics - Ceramic bearings whiny post

I found on http://www.bocabearings.com/main1.aspx?p=product&id=1928&n=3/16IN-C_SI3N4_GR.5_BALLS_(EA.) that replacement ceramic ball bearings are incredibly expensive! Almost $4 a ball, and there are 12 on each side of a Bontrager hub. That's $96 a wheel.

I am hoping they come down in price at some point. I see now why only the real weight weenies would want to upgrade to ceramic bearings. They are the only ones that can afford to spend that kind of money on balls.

What is the point of my post? None really, just whining. I can never afford the really cool tech. Grease and metal it'll have to be for the time being.

I guess I should have looked a little closer. Cost is actually closer to $36 a wheel for Shimano 105/Dura Ace.

http://www.bocabearings.com/main1.aspx?p=ProductDetailKitSearch&id=1928&pgid=14

Did you calculate the overall weight savings in grams then convert it to ounces?

If so, you could be a true weight weenie...

"They are the only ones that can afford to spend that kind of money on balls." QUOTE.


We are not going to go there are we!


Regards,
J T

(ROTFLMAO)

I spent more than that on my balls...


Then again, that saves me $200K/kid. :D

There are sources less expensive than Boca.

http://www.vxb.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?

I've purchased from them and can speak for their service. It's very good, in my experience.

Fairie dust is expensive too, and about as useful.

Fairie dust is expensive too, and about as useful.

Ceramic bearings sprinkled with Fairy dust will save you 17.5 seconds over a 40kmTT.

Fairie dust is expensive too, and about as useful.

As much as I love bicycle technology...I can't disagree.

The cost/benefit ratio for ceramic bearings just isn't there yet, even figuring that they are rated to last 5X longer.

I look at bearings much like chains: Run decent quality gear and replace it more often rather than buy expensive gear and wait longer than you should due to the prohibitive replacement cost. Unless you're at the top percentile of pro racing, the benefits are negligible, if not immeasurable.

I can agree with the whining on this one, but not because I can't afford it. I'll whine because the people who can afford these things (or other high-tech, useless things) have more money than sense while I have to build my bike as cheap as possible out of the used parts bin.

Nobody said it was fair though. I like my $250 Trek 710 better than I would like a $2000 CF anything, because I put it together myself.

"I'll whine because the people who can afford these things (or other high-tech, useless things) have more money than sense" QUOTE.


I suppose one may 'lump', computers during the '80's/'90's into what you have to say?

Regards,
J T

Ceramic bearings sprinkled with Fairy dust will save you 17.5 seconds over a 40kmTT.
The Fairy Dust alone will save 17.49 of those seconds.

"I'll whine because the people who can afford these things (or other high-tech, useless things) have more money than sense" QUOTE.


I suppose one may 'lump', computers during the '80's/'90's into what you have to say?

Regards,
J T

Note that I said "useless." That doesn't really apply to computers even in the 80s, definitely not in the 90s.

I was really only speaking to inappropriate and expensive bike components. Ceramic ball bearings are not necessary in any bike component (no high heat, no high speed, no high loads), and weight savings are going to be minimal at best. You will lose far more weight in sweat over the course of a ride than you can ever save in bearing material.

Ceramic ball bearings are not necessary in any bike component (no high heat, no high speed, no high loads), and weight savings are going to be minimal at best. You will lose far more weight in sweat over the course of a ride than you can ever save in bearing material.

Couple that with the fact that the weight is at the hub and not rotational weight.

Be careful with that Faerie Dust: It just made the UCI's banned substances list.

Grease and metal it'll have to be for the time being.

Surprisingly enough, that's all they had for many years of bike racing.

I thought the main advantages of ceramic was less friction, smoother running and longer life?

I thought the main advantages of ceramic was less friction, smoother running and longer life?
Those are the claimed advantages. The actual differences in bicycle use are so tiny as to be insignificant. The only real and measurable difference is the tremendous cost penalty.

I used to use Boca's ceramic bearings when I raced R/C cars at a competitive national level. These cars were electronically timed to the 1/100 of a second per lap. There was absolutely no difference in lap times between ceramic bearings and steel bearings. They also did not last longer. One slip into the outer wall and you needed 2 new right front bearings.

all right now, let's all stop the damm whinning, all of you know that if you REALLY want these nice ceramic bearings for your bikes you can afford them, now stop and think if you really want it you will save up for it. and i will tell you that i have ceramic bearings on all of my bikes and they are worth every penny.
you will be able to go faster with less effort and coast much longer.
i used syn grease with Slick 50 to lube all of the bearings.
i have ceramic bearings throughout the entire drivetrain of my bikes including the pedals and derailuer pulleys.

all right now, let's all stop the damm whinning, all of you know that if you REALLY want these nice ceramic bearings for your bikes you can afford them, now stop and think if you really want it you will save up for it. and i will tell you that i have ceramic bearings on all of my bikes and they are worth every penny.
you will be able to go faster with less effort and coast much longer.
i used syn grease with Slick 50 to lube all of the bearings.
i have ceramic bearings throughout the entire drivetrain of my bikes including the pedals and derailuer pulleys.
Some people need the boost...whether it be actual or placebo.

Hmmm, they could just be fairy dust :)

"There was a measurable drag difference between ceramic bearings and steel bearings when we tested unloaded wheels, but the difference was small enough that we could not measure it on a loaded wheel."

http://www.hedcycling.com/wheels/ceramicbearings.php

And once again, as in every other ceramic bearing thread on this forum, everyone compares hybrid ceramic bearings to steel bearings in their discussion. Why not make the leap to a full ceramic bearing and see what difference they might make. For one thing, they require no lubrication whatsoever, so with the same low-drag seal used on the hybrid bearings, would have zip for internal resistance. For pure racing use, they could be run with no seals at all, maybe just a shield. Some full ceramics used in the bottom bracket should provide additional benefit. Someone like HED needs to put some of them in a wheel and do the measurements. Every little bit of drag adds up. ;)

As much trouble as the manufacturers are going to, to reduce drag through aerodynamics, one would think that effort would spill over into every other facet of resistance encountered, also.

None of this would probably make any difference to anyone other than a pro, but to one of them, I would think every little increment would be a plus.

I have Delft glazed ceramic bearings decorated with miniature scenes from historic bicycle races.

Makes all the difference climbing Mt. Clemens!*





--
*Michigan joke

I have a set of full ceramic bearings sitting at the shop waiting to go into a Cannondale SI BB, and the difference between the normal steel bearing and the ceramic just off the bike is huge. I can already guess that there will be a definite difference, something I have not seen in the dozens of Hybrid ceramics I have installed into countless BB's and wheels. Also, compare a Zipp ceramic to an Enduro bearing, and you will feel the difference. Worth the price? Doubt that. Advantage? Very small, but possible. If you're out there racing to win, it might be a good option- if you're not, save your money for something else!!

None of this would probably make any difference to anyone other than a pro, but to one of them, I would think every little increment would be a plus.
Aerodynamic improvements are measurable and significant. Bike bearings contribute so little to total energy absorbtion that even major "improvements" are insignificant. Ceramic bearings are a marketing triumph and a physical waste of money.

In my drivetrain, I have a wheel that is mounted rather low. To solve the resulting water related problems I went with a ceramic bearing and just loved its operation. In other situations, I suppose it is a choice a person can make. If funds are low, getting ceramic bearings certainly may seem a frivolous proposition. For someone with substantial funds, however, the cost of bearings, whether steel or ceramic, may be marginal. I do not see why not going then with the higher quality.

In my drivetrain, I have a wheel that is mounted rather low.

You've peaked my curiosity. How is your wheel mounted any lower than the typical one?

I do not see why not going then with the higher quality.

You are assuming that ((higher cost) == (higher quality)).

It don't.

You've peaked my curiosity. How is your wheel mounted any lower than the typical one?

I have an idler wheel, mounted low, that increases my gear capacity. When the bearing gets stuck, the wheel erodes the axle on which it is mounted. The movement on the axle must be permitted to let the wheel shift in the lateral direction.

You are assuming that ((higher cost) == (higher quality)).

It don't.

You are assuming what I am assuming. I have both ceramic and steel bearings, can mount either and compare how a wheel rotates with one type or the other. Otherwise, I have already experienced rust in the steel bearings, irrespectively of the sealing which was there.

The Fairy Dust alone will save 17.49 of those seconds.

Does anyone know an online source for this? Is it UCI legal?

As per above, no it is not UCI legal. And we got your IP address, so funny business.

Otherwise, I have already experienced rust in the steel bearings, irrespectively of the sealing which was there.

So what's to prevent the steel race from rusting?

So what's to prevent the steel race from rusting?

Faerie dust ;)

So what's to prevent the steel race from rusting?

Less vulnerable surface fewer potential problems. Mine are, anyway, fully ceramic.

Someone's been snorting faerie dust...

Someone's been snorting faerie dust...

Admission is the first step to solving a problem...

Admission is the first step to solving a problem...

I thought denial was the first stage??? :rolleyes:

Chief

"Admission is the first step to solving a problem... " QUOTE.

"I thought denial was the first stage???" QUOTE.


I disagree with the both of you, and that's my last word!

(ROTFLMAO)

Regards,
J T

so has anyone used ceramics in Bontrager wheels? If so what size bearings did you have to purchase? thanks

I was reading an old Winning mag form about '94, in which was a Tune ceramic bottom bracket for $2000!!!! MAybe it was a misprint :p

A sumthing-sumthing born every minute.

I can agree with the whining on this one, but not because I can't afford it. I'll whine because the people who can afford these things (or other high-tech, useless things) have more money than sense while I have to build my bike as cheap as possible out of the used parts bin.

Nobody said it was fair though. I like my $250 Trek 710 better than I would like a $2000 CF anything, because I put it together myself.

I can't complain about folks with more $ than sense. Heck, that's who I buy my (used) parts from!

"A 2006 Dura-Ace rear derailleur for $7 becasue you just spent megabucks on a 2008 Dura-Ace set-up? Sure!"

They are just an example of how nominal the gains per dollar get when you are out on the margins. bk

Ceramic bearings are for racing, especially stuff like track racing where every .1s and every watt counts. In that respect, ceramic bearings are a CHEAP upgrade.

They have their uses.