Touring - Tektro Oryx canti brakes

Hi all,

I'm building up a 26" wheeled touring rig from a vintage Bridgestone. It came with Dia Compe 983 canti brakes, but I'm wanting to upgrade with good modern components. I think I like the Tektro Oryx cantis, but does anyone have any experience and input on these stoppers before I buy a set? If not the Oryx, what should I be looking at? BTW, will be using road-type levers.

Thanks,

i would recommend against the oryx. i have them on my surly lht with paul canti levers. they just don't stop well. it takes a pretty good effort to do a stoppie or even lock the rear wheel (when the bike is unloaded). i haven't tried new pads, but that'll probably be my next step. i'm tempted to try the CR720, atleast on the front wheel.

Get the Shimano's.

i would recommend against the oryx. i have them on my surly lht with paul canti levers. they just don't stop well. it takes a pretty good effort to do a stoppie or even lock the rear wheel (when the bike is unloaded). i haven't tried new pads, but that'll probably be my next step. i'm tempted to try the CR720, atleast on the front wheel.

Thanks Fueled. That's just the kind of input I'm looking for. They may look great, but they've gotta stop the bike! I hope some others have some additional thoughts on the matter.

Thanks,

The Oryx work much better with KoolStops than what they are provided with when purchased. KS don't need as much toe-in and wear better, seem to have better modulation and need less lever pressure.

do you have a particular model of koolstop to recommend? the tektro pads that the brakes come with are clearly not the best.

is there any advantage to a wider brake like the tekro CR720 or the paul neo-retro? i assume there is a leverage advantage, but is there anything else i'm missing (besides the tendency for a nicer brake to be stiffer)?

"particular model of koolstop to recommend"

Am using the Mountain Salmon (http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakeshoes.html#mountain) though mine have different logo I think. Your LBS should have them also.

I'm finding the salmon are fine all round except more grabby or chattery if rim is dirty. So keeping rims clean of chain lube helps.

I haven't tried the dual compound.

The Tektro Oryx cantilever brakes are about as good as other modern cantilevers, but harder to set up because of the old fashioned yoke and staddle cable. They are, BTW, the same brake as the Crane Creek cantillevers. If you use these brakes, it might take a lot of time to get them set up 100%. There is a huge difference in braking power if the pads hit the rim to soon or too late in their arc. But they can and will work.

I'd look hard at getting the Shimano BR550 cantilevers-- way cheaper than the Pauls (very nice brakes), don't squeal like the Avids (I hate these), easier to set up than the Tektros. Plus they have a nice sliver finish.

I'd also think about getting new pads for the Dia Compe 983 cantis on the bike and using those. I honestly think that cantilever brakes haven't got any more stopping power in the last 30 years. So if your low on money, go get new Kool stop pads for your old brakes and mess with them awhile. If you can't get them dailed in, order these brakes.

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=6351

These are the older Shimano canti brakes-- they work fine and are dirt cheap. Be prepared to mess with them a while to get them set up however :)

Hi all,

I'm building up a 26" wheeled touring rig from a vintage Bridgestone. It came with Dia Compe 983 canti brakes, but I'm wanting to upgrade with good modern components. I think I like the Tektro Oryx cantis, but does anyone have any experience and input on these stoppers before I buy a set? If not the Oryx, what should I be looking at? BTW, will be using road-type levers.

Thanks,
Nothing wrong with the Tektro Oryx cantis except the pads. I am very happy with mine. I don't find them particularly hard to adjust.

Edit: I forgot to mention... I think the Kool Stop black pads are fine and even preferred over the salmon ones unless you live in a wet climate where they are a bit better.

Nothing wrong with the Tektro Oryx cantis except the pads. I am very happy with mine. I don't find them particularly hard to adjust.

This is my experience as well. Just put a set on a 1983 Specialized Expedition -- easy to set up, stop better for me than the old Shimanos IMHO (both have Koolstop pads), and can adjust toe-in.

. . .I'd look hard at getting the Shimano BR550 cantilevers-- way cheaper than the Pauls (very nice brakes), don't squeal like the Avids (I hate these), easier to set up than the Tektros. Plus they have a nice sliver finish. . .

Thanks tacomee,

I want to look at the BR550's. Money is not an issue, but I'm not putting out for the Pauls. I do have a set of beautiful NOS Suntour XC Pro cantis that I was going to put on my '83 Expedition. They have a gorgeous silver finish and a good reputation (from what I've read), but I have never personally used them. They're still in the box.

If I go with the Oryx I can see that the consensus is to go ahead and get Koolstops all around. Or should I go with the XC Pros? Or the Br550s?

Decisions, decisions.

Next comes the derailleurs.

Thanks tacomee,

I want to look at the BR550's. Money is not an issue, but I'm not putting out for the Pauls. I do have a set of beautiful NOS Suntour XC Pro cantis that I was going to put on my '83 Expedition. They have a gorgeous silver finish and a good reputation (from what I've read), but I have never personally used them. They're still in the box.

If I go with the Oryx I can see that the consensus is to go ahead and get Koolstops all around. Or should I go with the XC Pros? Or the Br550s?

Decisions, decisions.

Next comes the derailleurs.
I would go with the XC pros if I already had them. They are very pretty and I bet they work well too, although I don't have first hand experience with them. You can always swap them out later if you don't like them.

What kind of levers are you using? Are they V-brake compatible? If your levers are not v-brake compatible and you are trying to save money, then keep your old brakes, switch to Kool Stop pads and shorten the cable yoke to increase braking power. I see no reason to switch from one type of canti brakes to another unless the lever arm of the new one you are looking at is longer.

If on the other hand if your levers are v-brake compatible, go with v-brakes. They are much easier to adjust and have far more stopping power. Also have the side benefit of not sticking out so far on the sides.

Traditional cantilever brakes (lever arm out to the side)and v-brakes (lever arm straight up) are both cantilever brakes, its just that v-brakes have a much longer lever arm, hence need levers that can pull more cable. More leverage, more braking power, with more control.

i have the paul's on my thorn there brilliant they look class easy to set up they come with coolstop pads

What kind of levers are you using? Are they V-brake compatible? If your levers are not v-brake compatible and you are trying to save money, then keep your old brakes, switch to Kool Stop pads and shorten the cable yoke to increase braking power. I see no reason to switch from one type of canti brakes to another unless the lever arm of the new one you are looking at is longer.

If on the other hand if your levers are v-brake compatible, go with v-brakes. They are much easier to adjust and have far more stopping power. Also have the side benefit of not sticking out so far on the sides.

Traditional cantilever brakes (lever arm out to the side)and v-brakes (lever arm straight up) are both cantilever brakes, its just that v-brakes have a much longer lever arm, hence need levers that can pull more cable. More leverage, more braking power, with more control.

In the orginal post I said that I would be "using road-type levers". Actually, they are Shimano aero levers that are pulling the original Shimano 983 cantis. They're real nice levers.

I'm not sure where anyone got the idea that money was one of the major concerns. That is not part of the original post. Actually, I shared with Tacomee that money is not the issue, but that I still don't want to spring for the Paul brakes. But, I do want something that is nice looking and functional. I really don't want to keep the 983 brakes even though they actually work just fine. One of the reasons for wanting to switch out the 983 brakes is just what you stated--they are of the type that stick out so far and they are somewhat pitted. A more compact design, but still traditional cantilever, has a cleaner look, shorter straddle cable, and perhaps more braking power. But, I won't be going with v-brakes.

Now, antokelly wants to tempt me with the Pauls. Yes, they're brilliant! If I were building up a new, high-end rig, that might be the way I'd go. But, the Bridgestone that I'm building up is from the early '90s, and although very nice, doesn't need the Pauls. Even though I want the bike to look great, I plan to use it touring a lot of dirt and fire roads (not single track type riding), and perhaps in Asia. Those sweet Pauls would be overkill.

Thanks,

"particular model of koolstop to recommend"


Am using the Mountain Salmon

+1

I have the Nashbar rebranded Tektro cantilever brakes and replaced the front pad with the KoolStop Salmon (will be replacing the rear pad eventually). Stopping power seems fine to me while touring using he new pads.

One recommendation made above was to use the older cantilever brakes with new pads. I have several makes and models of older cantilever brakes and I have found that the new Tektro cantilever brakes to be much easier to adjust -- far less fiddling to get the pads in the right replace. I'll not use older cantilever brakes again because of the adjustment factor.

bwgride hits the nail on the head-- I'm pretty sure the older cantilever brakes are about as good as the new ones if you add the Kool Stop pads. But there are harder to dial in right. My favorite canti is the new Shimano BR550-- I don't think it's any better than other models of cantis, it's just really easy to set up and keep running.

I do miss all that *cold forging* that the MacFacs took to get to work right :)

One last thing-- if you can't get the braking power out of your cantilevers, check the housing for flexing and think about levers with a better mechcanical advantage. Newer levers are better.

list of cantis used:
- paul neo retro-light, sexy, great stopping power with ks pads. expensive, hardware corroded from wet 'cross conditions, too wide to use with panniers and might catch your heal if you have big feet or a really small frame.
- cr720-equal to the Pauls in look and power. not easy to get equal modulation from both sides, too wide to use with panniers and might catch your heal if you have big feet or a really small frame.
- oryx-easiest of all to set up, nice looking in black or silver, very inexpensive($9 wholesale, $15 on ebay). pads that they come with are mediocre, stopping power with KS is better but still not as good as Pauls or CR720.
- current version shimano canti-i had no positive experiences with these other than that they were free. they were on my commuter bike and they squealed, corroded, and required much more hand strength to operate than any of the others.

As a disclaimer, I have minimal touring experience so I cannot speak to the performance of these brakes while touring although I have towed a BOB while using the Oryx and intend to do so when I do the TransAm this summer. Most of my experience with cantis comes from 'cross racing, road training, and commuting.

i'm looking for some tips on setting up my cantis, actually. so far i've found the oryxs to be weak. I've worked extensively with v-brakes, disc brakes, and road caliper brakes, and i've been able to set up my cantis passably but i would like to get them dialed.
Would shortening the straddle cable help?
What about a wider "yoke"?
At what point in the arc should the pads be hitting the rim?

I use Park Tool's instructions (http://parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=19) to be useful in setting up cantis. Also, so you understand why you're doing what you're doing, read your bible (http://sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html).

The Oryx brakes have decent stopping power, but I had a lot of problems with grit contaminating the pivots. The grit made the brakes work poorly (kind of a gritty feel to the braking action), and once, after riding in salty conditions, the rear brakes actually seized up from corrosion in the pivots.

I have since replaced my front Oryx brakes with Pauls, and have been really happy with them. They have a lot of stopping power, and the mechanism is sealed with o-rings, so I don't have to worry about contamination. I still use the Oryx brakes on the rear; it just doesn't make sense to spring for the pauls because I almost never use my rear brake.

I have Shimano BR-550s on another bike and I prefer those to the Oryx. They have better seals, and stopping power is a little better.

Regardless of which brakes you get, be sure to get kool stop pads. I prefer the salmon MTN flavor.

Edit: I am an all weather commuter, so in my case the Oryx brakes are operating in extreme conditions. You might not have issues with grit and corrosion if you don't ride much in the rain/salt/sand.

I have the Oryx on the back and Tektro CR720 on the front. The CR720s are the easiest brakes to set up that I 've ever had and can be found for $21. The Oryx are decent but I find a difficult to set up. I plan to replace them for that reason, some time.

it looks like my primary problem is that my straddle cable is too long and my cable yoke too high. do wider cable yokes/carriers allow you to run your yoke lower and still clear fenders/ tires? whats the reasoning here?

I just installed the Tektro Oryx cantis on my LHT. I didn't put a lot of effort into dialing them in, but they stop at least as well as the V-Brakes I used to have on my MTBs and much better than the cantis I used on my MTBs in the 80s and early 90s. I can easily do a front wheel stand with them and lock the rear wheel at will. Modulation is good too.

Because of my experiences with cantis years ago, I was nervous about using them on my LHT, but I didn't want to replace my brake levers in order to use V-Brakes. The Oryx cantis are much better than any cantis I've used before (including various Diacompe and Sachs models).

Chris

i think my problems may have had something to do with the pads not having been broken in. i can do stoppies and front wheel pivots reasonably well now. i guess cantis will just never compare to the really nice mechanical discs and hydros i've used on mountain bikes.

"particular model of koolstop to recommend"

Am using the Mountain Salmon (http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakeshoes.html#mountain) though mine have different logo I think. Your LBS should have them also.

I'm finding the salmon are fine all round except more grabby or chattery if rim is dirty. So keeping rims clean of chain lube helps.

I am loving those brake pads also, w/ my tektro oryxes. Installed 2 Sundays ago. Took a few days of tweaking to get everything just exactly perfect (different width; there is a spacer on the KS's that seems to be fixed in place, but it was mobile, and on the other side of the arm, on the tektro pads). Somewhere between grit in the mechanism and metal fatigue on the spring, I wound up moving the non-drive-side spring up to the highest hole on the fork to ensure that the arm/lever would snap back (release the wheel) when I released the brake lever.

I'm not sure where anyone got the idea that money was one of the major concerns. That is not part of the original post. Actually, I shared with Tacomee that money is not the issue, but that I still don't want to spring for the Paul brakes. But, I do want something that is nice looking and functional. I really don't want to keep the 983 brakes even though they actually work just fine. One of the reasons for wanting to switch out the 983 brakes is just what you stated--they are of the type that stick out so far and they are somewhat pitted. A more compact design, but still traditional cantilever, has a cleaner look, shorter straddle cable, and perhaps more braking power. But, I won't be going with v-brakes.
Thanks,

well if money's not really an object maybe you can test some brakes that I've been thinking about - the ird cafam (http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=11676&category=1592). They're not that spendy and they look great but who knows how they work? get some and let us know!
And thanks in advance.
Dan

Overall, I think your best bet is too find the manufacturers choice for your bike and run those. I have never riden a "good" bike from a bike shop floor that was impossible to stop or had massive problems with heel strike or wheel removal. If you were specing a Surly LHT would your lawyers let you fit brakes that just flat didn't work, and your accounting department wouldn't let you fit brakes that cost what Pauls do. Keep it simple. Conversely while everyone here is probably giving great advice, brakes on Touring bikes are a total system and you will probably not get the same results just following someone else's experience with different background components but the same brakes.

In your particular case that would mean getting new brakes if you want to that are the geometric twin of your current 983s.



". I honestly think that cantilever brakes haven't got any more stopping power in the last 30 years"

True enough except where self-energizing brakes are concerned. I have had great luck with the fronts and the backs. I have always used basic black rubber, which is a re-supply plus, and doesn't get coaught on the fork arms. I think they do just what tourers using drops need them to do which is bear down with minimal lever input.

One thing I like about the older brakes is their clunky adjustible shoes. I like being able to set the cable height then the arm angle then the shoe projection all independant of each other. It may not look as clean but it is easier to work with if you run up against any adjustment issues.

Thanks for all the input and wisdom on the topic. You'll probably shoot me after all this, but I tried the NOS Suntour XC Pros yesterday that I had in the cupboard (waiting to be put on my '83 Expedition), and they looked and felt fantastic on the Bridgestone. (I hope the Expedition isn't jealous! Since the Exp is 25 years old this year I'll have to get her something real nice.) The XC Pros set up very easily and they have a top shelf silver finish. They're also of the same era as the B'stone, so I suppose that's another plus.

Next I want to upgrade the derailleurs, but that'll be for another thread. (Shimano XT or SRAM?)

Thanks again,

i read the park tool stuff and decided to swap the conical spacers on my break pad posts around, putting the larger of the two on the inside of the break arm. i also lowered the cable yoke. it helped a lot. now i just have to worry about fitting fenders.

I tried the NOS Suntour XC Pros yesterday that I had in the cupboard (waiting to be put on my '83 Expedition), and they looked and felt fantastic on the Bridgestone.

Ted (more for the benefit of others) --

I have a set of OOS (old old stock) -- i.e. original -- Shimano cantis that came on my 1983 Expedition, for those who just can't do without the look and feel of the manufacturer's selection 25 years ago. Two downsides: (1) no cable yoke, just the arms, pads and parts, and (2) this older design cannot be set for toe-in. The upside? Free to a good home, FOB Davis, California!