Touring - How to deal with bears on tour?

We will be riding through a couple thousand miles of bear country on our upcoming tour and I've been researching this for a couple days. How do you deal with bears on tour? What do you store your food in? What if there are no trees around to hang it in?

Nancy: From the info I've gathered, the most important thing to practice is the safety triangle. Eat in one area, store your food another, and sleep in the third. Most importantly, if there is a visible wind, cook in the most downwind point.

With respect to trees, or lack thereof, there are some products that supposedly are bear proof. I can't remember the exact name, it's like bear can, bear barrel, or something like that.

Have you asked that question on CgoaB? I'm thinking Jeff's or Terrence's journal may have a little info considering their routes.

I think bear bangers and bear spray would be in order as well. I've only toured BC/Alberta with a small, naval air horn; but never had to use it. It always hung off my handlebar bag and I kept it with me when I was in my hammock.

Good luck with your trip.

Dave

We will be riding through a couple thousand miles of bear country on our upcoming tour and I've been researching this for a couple days. How do you deal with bears on tour? What do you store your food in? What if there are no trees around to hang it in?

G'day Nancy.

Having done the Deadhorse to Calgary and beyond trip, I can tell you that living (camping) in bear country is an interesting experience. Joanne and I looked at the bear barrels but figured they were not big enough, and were too heavy for carrying enough food (15 days from Deadhorse to Fairbanks) for extended cycle touring.

We had our food in the Bob trailer (only) and used to follow this routine:
1. when not in campgrounds, we used to cook and eat in a clear area where we could see around us for a reasonable distance to avoid surprises, and then ride a few kilometres away to camp;
2. when in campgrounds, follow the laid down rules in the campground and if possible cook away from the tent, then store the food in their lockers if provided;
3. if no lockers were available or when not in a campground, we would remove the bob trailer from the trikes and take it a good distance away from the tent and leave it in the bush. That way, the worst that could happen was that we'd lose our food and have to get some help to get some more, or ride to where we could with empty fuel tanks.
4. we hung our food once using the metal frame over the gate to the pipeline but other than that we always utilised the method at point 3.

We were lucky and never had any problem, nor lost any food to bears or other critters, but you never know what will happen. For my 2c worth, there is no fool proof way, and using the best known methods that seem appropriate at the time is probably the best.

Hope that helps.

Regards

Andrew & Joanne

Everything the first two posts said pretty much summed it up. The things I would add are that Brears view lubrication products ie chain lube and the like as dessert. If you want some great pictures spray a lot on right before bedtime and watch them lick it off your chain. ( ok, not really a good idea), avoid any campsites near salmon streams, and more and more campsites are adding food lockers, at least around here. At least worth asking about.

Store not only food, but anything that is aromatic such as soaps, shampoos, sunscreen and the like NOT in your tent. And don't put your panniers that carry this stuff in your tent either.

If there is a mid-air pulley system available, use it. If there are bear-proof lockers, use them. If there is a neighbour's car, and the neighbour is amenable, use it (better to have the bear break into the vehicle than your occupied tent).

If there is a tree with a branch about 20 feet above the ground, this is a good time to practice your upward throws -- start early in the evening, because there is a chance darkness will fall before you get the rope over. Writing of rope, make sure you have some. And not some of that really thin curtain sashcord that you've acquired because it's light and useful, but some reasonably heavy stuff -- because if you try to pull up several full panniers of food and aromatic material, you will find it almost impossible with thin cord. Plus you will need a reasonably heavy object (in direct proportion to the diameter of the rope you're using -- ie, the thicker the rope, the bigger the weighty object needs to be) to weight the end of the said rope and ensure you have a fighting chance of getting the rope over the limb before darkness.

Also... wear your helmet, and make sure the loose end of the rope is attached to something, or you will be repeating this whole exercise again as the tail disappears upward and over the limb only to fall to back earth with the weighted end next to it.

Been there, done all (and I mean ALL) that.

Oh... and make sure the limb is (a) not dead and rotten and (b) is thick enough for the weight of the panniers. Because, we've also had a limb come down, too... as darkness fell with it.

Try to plan your campsites at parks campgrounds where there are other people about, and particularly parks staff. Watch the bulletin boards at these campgrounds for warnings of bear activity in the area.

Pick up the literature provided by the parks and follow it.

You also have the additional problem, I understand, of bringing a dog with you... and that can be bad news in bear country. Basically, keep it under lock and key (well, a leash at least), especially if it has a predisposition to running off and yapping madly while you opine that the dog control lessons haven't worked.

Don't become complacent, and in particular, watch your children (and the dog) and their behaviour in this sort of country. Impress on them that playing with bears is NOT a good idea at any time. It's a deadly, winner-take-all game and bears are sore losers... and equally, sore winners.

Keep your distance from bear activity. Don't try to get the "good close-up" photographic shot.

Find out when mating and cubbing seasons are because mother bears are very protective of their young -- never, ever get in between a mother and babies because you could be at death's door. Run in the other direction.

Plus, if you ever consider riding at dawn or twilight, think wolves. They hunt in packs, and I know of an instance where a cyclist was picked up by a motorist after the driver noticed a pack of wolves tracking the rider along a main highway in the Rockies in Alberta. According to one of my close sources (sitting right next to me, in fact :D ) says the wolf problem is escalating in Alberta to the point that farmers want the ban on shooting them to be lifted. We've passed them in a motor vehicle at dusk as they have wandered along the side of the road. It was the first time Machka had seen wolves like that... she initially thought they were coyotes, but they were way too big.

Which way are you going through Canada?

This is the Parks Canada site which might provide you with some useful info on your trip through Canada in general. http://www.pc.gc.ca/index_e.asp

And here is the part of the site that talks about bears:
http://www.pc.gc.ca/docs/v-g/oursnoir-blackbear/index_e.asp
http://www.pc.gc.ca/docs/pc/guide/nature/nature02_e.asp

Depending on where you are, there are several animals which you might have to keep an eye out for ... bears (I've seen lots of these), wolves (as Rowan mentioned above), cougars (I've seen one on a ride), and elk. In general, if you keep your distance and respect the fact that this is their home, not yours, it's OK.

You might find this interesting as well ... it's about the cougars here in Canada:
http://www.canadiangeographic.ca/Magazine/mj04/indepth/default.asp

We once did a bike tour, camping thing; with the wifes and non cyclists, driving behind as sag. About Crater lake the bears at night sounded worrisome. First night we camped in a tent on the ground. Second night we put our sleeping bags within the camper shell and kept the gate closed. Those bears were more worrisome than downtown America on frightnight.

Do bring one of those small Japanese wind chimes. The ones that are a piece of metal shaped like a frog or fish. If a bear comes by while you are in your tent, calmly ring the bell and maybe he will go away. If you are outside the tent, ring the bell, calmly, while backing away. This is what I used while kayaking the Inside Passage (solo) and if it didn't save my life, it at least caused the bears to temporarily go off a little and give me time to retreat. You are not scaring the bear, you are negotiating with him. As for the food, remember that bears have a sense of smell that is beyond our imagining. Never, like ever, have food in or near the tent. Keep yourself and your clothes from smelling of food as well. I would recommend against having anything on hand that would involve force or threat against the bear. In my opinion, that would be foolish in the highest degree.

First a notice I photographed in Joy, Alaska while cycling the Dalton Highway: http://www.mvermeulen.com/dalton/big/overview_04.jpg

I've done what others have done, in keeping my food and bicycle parked away from where I was sleeping. Some campgrounds had lockers but one in the Yukon Territory (between Haines & Haines Junction) didn't have lockers when I visited. I briefly thought about keeping my panniers in one of the bear-proof trash cans but decided against it under risk of having them accidentally get thrown away. That evening something slashed open a pannier and spent a good amount of effort trying to get into a plastic jar of peanut butter. I suspect it was a bear but not 100% certain. Safety pins are useful to have to hold the pannier back together.

When cycling across the US/Canadian border, I've had Canadian border agents ask me if I was bringing in "any weapons" including asking if I was bringing in bear spray. I never had bear spray with me but I sometimes got a mixed message from those border agents of "do not bring bear spray across the border" with a "you may be crazy to cycle in the Yukon without bear spray...". Personally, I don't particularly want to get close enough to bears to have to worry about bear spray.

Thanks for your thoughts everyone!! We are definitely planning to do the triangle thing - and will keep all food/smelly stuff in one Bob trailer. This oughtta be interesting!!

As an avid camper who has lost many tents, coolers, food and clothing to bears I can say this.
Hang you food or keep it in a locker.
But beware, bears are very persistant and will rumage for hours until chased off. Even if you have no food.
I watched a black bear for nearly an hour (from my Land Cruiser) in Duck Mountain Park as it tore my campsite to bits. There was no food at all in the site but that didn't seem to bother the bear.
The SERM officer later shot this bear.

There is no "cubbing season" as mentioned above. The cubs stay with the sow for 3 years or so.

What about bug spray? That's pretty smelly stuff, but I can't help but think it will be essential for us to use it - and that means it'll get in the tent and sleeping bags.

You WILL need bug spray up here, but I have never had a problem with it. I'd STRONGLY advise that you keep some of the hardcore very unnatural unhealthy stuff around as there will be those times ( read 100% deet) We use the avon product skin so soft the rest of the time as it seems a lot easier on the skin for continual use.

I was thinking about this, and I have not tried it, and it is gross, but it might work, too. Bears have a great sense of smell, and when they forage, they track like dogs, using scent to find food. So, if something smelled bad/inedible, the bear probably wouldn't touch it. What smells bad/inedible? Dog doo. You use two containers, an inner, clean container to hold the food/scented stuff, and an outside layer, like a garbage bag, that you slather the outside of with dog doo(or maybe modern science can make something that smells just like dog doo to a dog). The bear comes around, sniffs the outer bag, thinks that it is full of sh*t, and goes away.

Yes, it is gross, but I've never heard of bears raiding outhouses.

Hmmm... interesting idea John!! I'll have to think about that one!

Some great advice above about camping with bears. It squares with my experience.

Ursack, Bearikade and others make bear resistant bags and barrels. They have a limited capacity and only the most expensive-Bearikade- are at all light in weight but they are very effective.

The Ursack is made of kevlar or similar and does keep small critters from spoiling your food as well. It has been my default hanging or ground food bag for years without a problem.

One item that I have found useful in Alaska, BC and Alberta bear country while touring is ammonia in a spray bottle or bowl. I have had Alaska Brown and Grizzly bears approach my camp sniffing around my tent until they found small bowls and sponges filled with a bit of ammonia near the tent. They did not seem to like this intense smell and departed the area snorting. No guarantees just anecdotes of my experience but you might find it useful.

I was thinking about this, and I have not tried it, and it is gross, but it might work, too. Bears have a great sense of smell, and when they forage, they track like dogs, using scent to find food. So, if something smelled bad/inedible, the bear probably wouldn't touch it. What smells bad/inedible? Dog doo. You use two containers, an inner, clean container to hold the food/scented stuff, and an outside layer, like a garbage bag, that you slather the outside of with dog doo(or maybe modern science can make something that smells just like dog doo to a dog). The bear comes around, sniffs the outer bag, thinks that it is full of sh*t, and goes away.

Yes, it is gross, but I've never heard of bears raiding outhouses.

I've seen bears sniffing/pawing and eating dog crap. In fact many of the northern campgrounds warn dog owners of this pronlem.
You need something like OC spray to get rid of a bear.

I was reading about the Ursack the other day - but I'm thinking we would need 3 or 4 of them to fit all the food we'll need to the four of us! Are they worth it?

I have had more than my fair share of bear encounters when bike touring across Canada. I always made dinner on the way to my campsite for the night. I mostly wild camped and had fires at night.

Remember that bears also like toothpaste.

If you have a pocket knife don't bring that in the tent with you if you used to to prep food, unless you clean it first.

Bears are also attracted to sweet scents like flowery body wash and soaps. So don't keep that with you.

Keep a hand flare with you in your tent, in case a bear gets curious.

Keep a fox 40 whistle with you and an air horn. I sometimes worry about pepper spray, pissing an angry bear off that is not too happy with you does not seem like a good idea.

Make sure guy lines do not make it easy for a bear to get caught up and drag you and your tent into the woods.

An easy way to hang heavy bags high up in trees is to use #550 paracord and attached to a small pulley and throw it over a high branch that is no where near your camp site. Lower the pulley to the ground and run a rope through it with your gear attached and hoist it into the tree.
Black bears can climb trees, so make sure that you hang your gear far enough out on the branch that they can't reach it.

Some people have said bears can't run downhill, they can and in most cases it will be faster than you could bike down it.

Learn what bear sign is.

Bears a curious and opportunists and probably want nothing to do with you. That being said bears do not tend to know much about statistics.

The biggest threat to you is not bears, it is biting insects like mosquitoes and deer tics that carry lyme disease.

Be noisy when you get into camp, chances are if the bear knows you are there it will do its best to avoid you.

Smells are stronger when it is raining, and my encounters where a bear has come into my camp have been when it was raining. The rain also makes it harder for animals to hear you, so it is easier to surprise bears when it is raining.

If there is no way to hang your food then chances are that the rodents will make a meal out of your food if it is not secure. That is a guarantee.

Most of all be careful and don't let bear paranoia ruin your trip, because it will be an awesome experience.

There is no "cubbing season" as mentioned above. The cubs stay with the sow for 3 years or so.


The point is ... if you see a cub, walk away from the cub, never walk toward the cub. Living next to the mountains here, I hear the stories ... some tourist sees the cub and thinks, "Oh, how cute" and rushes over to take a picture of or with the little teddy bear ................. and next thing they know, mamma bear is coming to get them.

The point is ... if you see a cub, walk away from the cub, never walk toward the cub. Living next to the mountains here, I hear the stories ... some tourist sees the cub and thinks, "Oh, how cute" and rushes over to take a picture of or with the little teddy bear ................. and next thing they know, mamma bear is coming to get them.

Yup. Mama bear wants nobody near her cubs. Unfortunately, people often stumble upon the cubs first but making some noise can help out as the cubs can be shy of noise.

With two kids, making noise shouldn't be a problem. The kids will in heaven - for the first time ever we'll be encouraging them to make tons of noise!!

With two kids, making noise shouldn't be a problem. The kids will in heaven - for the first time ever we'll be encouraging them to make tons of noise!!

Just make sure you keep your kids and dog within sight at all times.

Will do - for sure!!

Counter Assault Bear Deterrent Spray - 290 Gram (http://www.rei.com/product/722005)

Carry and do not be afraid to use the Bear Deterrent Spray. I was reading an article recently and where there were dangerous human / bear encounters and the spray was used there were no injuries. All of the above advice is great.

Make lots of noise, put bells on your bikes and persons. REI has Bear Bells (http://www.rei.com/product/721998)

I'm not sure if this is appropriate for this day and age, but some 35 years ago I took a motorcycle camping trip through Canadian bear country. At the first camp site we went to, the Ranger asked us if we had bug spray. We answered that we didn't and inquired if the mosquitoes were that bad. Not the mosquitoes the Ranger replied, it was the bears. With that he asked us to dismount and he sprayed our motorcycle seats with bug spray. He explained that the bears had been known to rip apart motorcycle seats because of the salt deposits (or so they suspected).

Zagnut

Another article from Parks Canada

http://www.pc.gc.ca/pn-np/ab/banff/visit/visit12_E.asp

"Bear attacks are uncommon. Wild animals generally prefer to avoid people and bears are no exception. Most encounters between bears and people occur when the bear's natural avoidance behaviour shifts to aggression because of the following factors:

-- You surprise them.
-- They are protecting young or food.
-- They follow food and food-like odours to you.
-- Your dog provokes an attack.
-- The bear you encounter is habituated to people and has lost its natural fear."

The article also shows how to set up your campsite.

That's interesing about hte salt deposits!! Never heard of that, but it makes sense.

There are some good books on the subject. Some of them have recent research results.

I've had a number of encounters, and can share what I've noticed from them:

Bears can be very, very persistent, especially once they have located food, or a likely food source. Most pepper spray manufacturers fail to mention the fact that a high percentage of bears will return to try again, within minutes after they have been sprayed.

Also, they have a peculiar tolerance for pain. I've seen bears dig up hornets' nests to get at the larvae. These types of hornets are extremely aggressive when threatened, and their bites are quite painful (swelling and pain lasts for about a week, in my experience). The bears tolerate being stung numerous times (these colonies of ground-dwelling hornets often contain upwards of a hundred thousand hornets), just to get at the larvae, for some protein.

Then they will do it again and again, with other hornets' nests. They will go through an area, doing one after another.

*******
They are foragers, and they are good at it.

They have good memories. If they have found food at a certain site, they will often return. This includes berry patches, campsites, compost heaps, backpacks, various containers, and other places and prospects they have come to associate with food.

They are extremely food-driven.

I've toured among them for long periods, and have watched them return multiple times to a certain site to check to see if there is more food for them. I recently tracked one in the snow; it left very clear traces (perfect prints in the snow), of its journey from spot to spot, looking for food.

Although they often use their senses of smell, they also very often use their memories. They return to sites (and objects) that have been fruitful before -- even when there is no food present, and no food smells.

*******
They sample gear, and not just for the salt. I've had various unsalted (and food-smells-free) gear 'sampled' by bears. They are looking for food. They have learned that food can often be found inside human-made containers.

So if there is something that looks or feels as if there might be food inside, they will often just open it up to see.

*******
Their claws are like crowbars. They can peel open a car door or trunk without difficulty. I've seen them peel back siding and steel doors to get inside.

If they can't hook their claws into anything (or into some gap or onto some edge), and can't sink their teeth in, it helps to prevent their success at getting inside. Bear canisters take advantage of this in their designs.

*******
Their senses of smell are -- so the researchers say -- even more acute (by far, it is claimed) than dogs'. They are even more acute than bloodhounds' that can track a human being for many miles, days after the person has traveled that way.

They can smell what is inside a tin can [this from several bear experts (I wasn't sure about this; but it has been repeatedly claimed by people who have a lot of experience with them)].

You can watch them using their senses of smell. They sniff the air and 'feel' it with their nostrils. They utilize that sense a great deal (along with memories) in locating food sources. The way their nostrils move as they search through the air, and the look in their eyes... -- you can see them 'feeling out,' very sensitively, what is in the air.

*******
They are especially ravenous during the weeks leading up to hibernation.

*******
They often move very quietly through the woods. One caught me sleeping -- it was sniffing my breath when it woke me with the humid air it was exhaling. They are sometimes careful not to step on twigs; they will choose their foot placements, and when they are on their familiar rounds (some of them make daily rounds of their foraging sites), they will use the same foot placements day after day, to avoid making noise among the leaves and twigs.

They are more intelligent than most people imagine. Whenever I've looked at them face-to-face, I am always struck by the look in their eyes. It's almost as if one is looking at a human being inside there, behind the eyes.

*******
Metals clanging against metals make sounds that are often off-putting to them.

*******
Food residues should be scrupulously avoided on gear, tents, campsite and sleeping breath, clothing, etc.

*******
In recent years, rangers have utilized some hazing techniques that have been quite effective.

*******
Have a safe and happy, wonderful trip.:)

They also have some strong tendencies of curiosity. I've had them locate where I am sleeping, and then stop and look, and just stare for quite a while. Some of them seem to have very little fear. One even went to sleep nearby.

I just get some ice and chill them in an insulated grocery bag.










Oops, thought you said beers! Ahhh......bears, .............................run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are some good books on the subject. Some of them have recent research results.

I've had a number of encounters, and can share what I've noticed from them:

Where and when were these encounters? What kind of bears were they? Or were these "literary" encounters? Most of what you've told us here can be found by looking up a few bear sites on the internet, like this one, for example:
http://www.bear.org/Black/Sign/Bear_Sign.html
http://www.bear.org/




I recently tracked one in the snow; it left very clear traces (perfect prints in the snow), of its journey from spot to spot, looking for food.

Don't bears hibernate in the winter? It's a rare bear that would be out at this time of year in North America ... they usually emerge in April or May.




They often move very quietly through the woods. One caught me sleeping -- it was sniffing my breath when it woke me with the humid air it was exhaling.

Bad dream?



They are more intelligent than most people imagine. Whenever I've looked at them face-to-face, I am always struck by the look in their eyes. It's almost as if one is looking at a human being inside there, behind the eyes.

Uh-huh. Another bad dream?

Where and when were these encounters? What kind of bears were they? Or were these "literary" encounters? Most of what you've told us here can be found by looking up a few bear sites on the internet, like this one, for example:
http://www.bear.org/Black/Sign/Bear_Sign.html
http://www.bear.org/




Don't bears hibernate in the winter? It's a rare bear that would be out at this time of year in North America ... they usually emerge in April or May.




Bad dream?




Uh-huh. Another bad dream?

Time for me to go back to the woods.
Spring time is bear hunting season. The best rugs come from an early spring bear..............

Though bears hibernate through the winter, they can and do leave their den in search of food; though how common of an occurance that is, I'm not sure. Considering the time of year that you'll be that far north, it's a non-issue. They'll be active.

As an animal lover, I can understand why you'd want to take along your dog. I love dogs too. But, honestly, I wouldn't take mine along (if I had one). I know that this can/could be a tough decision, but one has to think about what's best for the dog in this scenario. That being said, it's an individual decision. And you've probably thought long and hard about it. Go with your gut instinct.

Where and when were these encounters? What kind of bears were they? Or were these "literary" encounters? Most of what you've told us here can be found by looking up a few bear sites on the internet, like this one, for example:
http://www.bear.org/Black/Sign/Bear_Sign.html
http://www.bear.org/




Don't bears hibernate in the winter? It's a rare bear that would be out at this time of year in North America ... they usually emerge in April or May.




Bad dream?




Uh-huh. Another bad dream?

Bears here have been coming out earlier, ( and why not it's 39 F outside my door in South Central Alaska right now) but yea, trust me, this is either a bear dream or fantasy. Been living around bears for a long time in both rural and urban Alaska, and this description is way over the top.

no doubt. Niles' fantastic accolades sounds like the fella Werner Herzog did the bear film about.

I've seen at least a dozen bear close up over the years - the feeling you get encountering a bear is quite unique in my opinion. a true predator/prey reaction hard wired into the human psyche.No one - with the exception of a few wacked out bear researchers - is able to sit and calmly gaze into their eyes in a wilderness setting.

I HAVE seen a bear on the snow though. Bear will get up in the winter, they're not true hibernators like some other mammals.

I exercise almost paranoid application of the classic kitchen-sleep-storage Camp Triangle and extreme dilligence with toiletries and day food when in grizzly country. I've inadverdently camped next to problem Grizzly relocation areas before -that kept me sleeping lightly no matter how dilligent!


Some people go to the length of having separate clothes you cook and eat in that you leave with your food storage but that could get problematic.

Have you considered contacting Ursack and seeing if they'd make you a bigger bear sack that would fit the bob trailer? This would be pretty cool way of keeping your food out of harms way at treeless campsites. I have read mixed results on the Ursack though.

Definetly learn the two rope hang bag method- it works a lot better in marginal forest cover than a single bear cord.

You are either really careful or you become breakfast, lunch and dinner all rolled into one. Alaska Tourer lives in prime Bear country. Just spend some time fly fishing a river south of Anchorage and share it with any number of grizzlies (brown bears - not so brown, blond, or ????). If they want your salmon they will come and get it and not get much argument from me. Get chased off a stream in Central California by a black bear sow with two cubs. Or how about being chased into a restroom - closest thing to me in Yellowstone with solid walls and a door by a bear with two triangle tags - one each ear.
He had already ripped apart a pop up camper, broken into a car and thrashed someone's camp site and cooler. I just happened to run into him on the way to the bathroom.

I have a healthy respect for bears in their territory. If my memory serves me correctly, Moose actually injure more people in Alaska than bears. Probably because they slide over the hood and in through the front window on impact with a car. Or is it the "Turons" - Tourists that insist on getting a picture with that slow moving Moose who is shedding their winter coat and starving from just barely surviving winter. They are not the warm and cozy type of creatures that take well to being loved on or photographed up close and personal.

Please take every precaution possible when traveling in Bear Territory by bike or on foot. I personally believe that there are probably better web sites for Bear Information than bikeforums.net.

Let's just say that my respect borders on a healthy fear when it comes to bears! Particularly when I am not armed with something that will actually drop one in it's tracks, which almost doesn't exist. So, short of that follow the rules stated earlier in this thread, carry Bear Pepper Spray and be careful.

Experience can be what you get when you don't get what you want! You really don't want to be able to tell a "Bear Story"!

...it's funny, moose ARE just as dangerous, but don't evoke the same visceral reaction as a bear encounter unless the moose charges you!

I suspect we'll be in the "paranoid about the triangle" camp as well!!

...it's funny, moose ARE just as dangerous, but don't evoke the same visceral reaction as a bear encounter unless the moose charges you!

[[BUMP]] I know, I know, don't tell me, it's a really old thread. But...

I'd like to hear more about moose. Just as dangerous as bears? Is this hyperbole? Don't get me wrong; I'm not challenging you. I'm genuinely interested.

Moose can charge you. A friend of mine works in Jasper and last time I talked to him, he had hundreds of bear encounters and was charged once by an angry mother. But out of a couple dozen moose encounters, he was charged half the time. I've never seen an angry moose though. I've had close encounter with bears and never had a problem except for a stolen food bag. The bear ate the coffee and bite into the pressurized fuel bottle. :p

The best protection against bears is to go out with someone who's slower than you. BTW, I've seen a black bear climb up a poplar tree. It ran up that tree faster than I can run on flat terrain.

[[BUMP]] I know, I know, don't tell me, it's a really old thread. But...

I'd like to hear more about moose. Just as dangerous as bears? Is this hyperbole? Don't get me wrong; I'm not challenging you. I'm genuinely interested.

Moose are prey animals. If you've interacted with any sort of livestock (cows, sheep, alpaca, llamas etc), you have a *bit* of a baseline. Moose do not herd or live in family groups the way most livestock does, and they don't have the kind of social dominance structure humans expect. Like all prey animals, they are easily startled, and react badly when startled.

They also can weigh as much as a car.

That means I want nothing to do with a moose. Ever. I am much smaller than they are, and ever so squishable if the moose is scared... and because I am not a plant, the moose is scared of me.

You may want to break the bears you are concerned with into species, terrain, and disturbed vs. undisturbed type. The ones we get out East, in large numbers are very skitish. I have been living part of the year on our NB farm for 50 years. Their spoor is all over the place, including under first floor bedroom windows. I have never seen one. Obviously they are partially nocturnal, but not exclusively. I never really worried about them at all, until I got small children. Children are like bait, though realistically I have not heard of an attack story, it's just one of those things that as a parent I'm not completely indiferent to.

I don't live out west, but have seen most of my bears out there. Animals seem to spread out in accordance with the expanding season. Tactics for the spring hunt include indentifying fields that they eat grass in to restore digestive capacity, and later berry fields. Behaviour in parks will be afected by humans. It may be that they have a daily routine that includes a beading area and feeding areas with the latter in around human food sources. Etc...

I would recomend reading or at least scanning some hunting books or articles in your library. One hunting trick is to suspend used "napkins". Indeed sex baits of various kinds are bottled from source animals like rabbits. It doesn't have to be species specific to be an attractant. That is more a deep cover baiting thing though.

In parks you may well encounter staff as you enter. Asking them about local bear spotings, and about bear habits would be worthwhile. Ask them about species, density, rut, where the bears are concentrated, or randomly distributed, what their food sources are for the time you are there, where they tend to bed. What times they travel, what kind of terrain they cover, what their spoor looks like given food prefereces; keep an eye on lunar cycles; be aware that animal may be on roads after rains; ask about any areas that are prone to bear car contact. Most animals are easily patterned, though often non-hunters don't know including "wildlife" folks. Also wildlife folks may know tons but have different periods of interest. They might have an active interests in dens but relatively little interest in another period. So asking about their programs etc... can give you an idea of whether they know the bear movements or are purely reactive.

When in parks normally the bear human backcountry info is fairly limited. One hears that bears were met on a given trail, or perhaps a trail was closed. But it's just as possible they were met leaving a food source they may not return to for 12 months. It may be helpful to have a slightly larger perspective.

Keep in mind that people eat thousands more bear in a given year, at least Black bear, than they ever eat us. We are a natural predator of bears not the reverse. A key feature to a predatory approach is to look in a lot more focused way, and keep situational awareness. I tend to treat trails as speed contests, either because in mountains one needs to keep ahead of conditions, or just for the fun of walking fast. But if you are walking in an area with possible life threatening animals in it, and you aren't even armed with a stick, you really need to slow down, and keep your pace to what you can reasonably cover with decent awareness. One will see more and different stuff. That's a good plan if you are concerned, I should have said. If you are happy with the percentages then don't sweat it.

The proper response in bear country is to be armed. Practically as a toruist, crossing in and out of jurisdictions, and in and out of parks, it would not be feasible. Also it tends to reduce contacts to shoot and no shoot situations which is not much fun for anyone.

The main danger with moose is the rut. The boys can be very agressive, and they are big and well armed. At other times of the year they will move to you, but I haven't seen serious agression, and most of the time they are moving in the opposite direction.

Bear bells? from REI?, you better not have sheep in your country if you are going to use them.

Black bears are probably the easiest to make going away they often listen more when humans talk to them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFGwX-BjHX8

I will just add my two cents. You are going to have the most problems with bears in places where scavengers bears already know there is food. Basically anyplace that there is a lot of people camping and free garbage, aka campgrounds and state parks. Scavenger bears are the ones that can't hold onto their own territory, and so they live on the margins between humans and the wild. If you camp on empty crown land you will most likely be on the territory of a more dominant well established bear that will stay away from humans. Most bears instinctively keep out of sight You would only likely see regular wild bears sniffing around if it was a particularly harsh season, and they were starving hungry, or if you surprise them near a stream or clearing.

This is all in reference to black bears which are the most common. I would think the same principles would apply to grizzlies, the only difference being that they are twice as big and more aggressive.

If you come face to face with a black bear, make yourself big, and make a lot of noise. If you have a bicycle turn it sideways to increase your size. If you have a jacket raise your arms up and open it to increase your size. I wouldn't try outrunning a bear, even on a bicycle unless it was a really good downhill stretch.

Studies have shown that black bear feces consisted mostly of berries while Grizzly feces contained little bells and smelled like pepper.

I rode the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route this summer, and can vouch for the Ursack! You'll want to read the directions, but I carried several days of backpacker meals plus other stuff & it seals up in the so-called "scent-proof" baggies just fine.

You can find bear spray with the right kind of sticker (approved by EPA) to get it over the border. Or buy a can on the north side. Some have even printed up their own stickers but that might be illegal.

I'm laughing at the description of getting your bear rope over the tree limb - sometimes it does feel like a comedy act! Car campers in the other sites must've gotten a kick out of it, like who let the ******** child out to play with rocks?

In two months on the trail I had no problems. So either I'm lucky or it works?

[[BUMP]] I know, I know, don't tell me, it's a really old thread. But...

I'd like to hear more about moose. Just as dangerous as bears? Is this hyperbole? Don't get me wrong; I'm not challenging you. I'm genuinely interested.

Yes, sometimes more so! Moose are huge and fast ...if one charges you, you could be seriously injured.

BTW - for some reason some Americans and Europeans confuse moose and elk ... they call both moose and elk "moose", but there is a big difference between the two.

The medium-sized animals with pointy horns that frequent Jasper are "elk". These travel in packs and are known to charge people. They are usually a beige/brown in color.

The large animals with dished horns that travel alone are "moose". They are usually a very dark brown, sometimes almost black in color.

edit: nevermind.