General Cycling Discussion - Riding in Japan

So this is the new thread that I said that I would post after leaving the other post in Introductions.

I thought I would call it "Riding in Kanto," but then I thought I should start it more broad.

Pucci and The Fixer seemed to have opinions about nice rides in Hakone. With autumn upon us, this sounds like a nice time to see the leaves change color. However, doing 100km through the mountains on my scruffy Hard Rock seems a bit daunting. Any good alternatives for those of us who are gravitationally challenged?

Also, anyone know of any good off-road trails? Naturally, ease of access by train has to be part of the equation.

- Jeff

That's funny. The Similar Threads should another thread called Riding in Japan from 6 months ago. Maybe I should have titled it "Riding in Kanto" after all. :)

If you are ever going to cycle in Northern Tohoku let me know. Some real good rides up here, especially if you like hills. How strong is the cycling community there, other than the abudant mama-cherry bikes

Ohaio Gozaimas! When I was in Okinawa we used to do a ride that headed out northeast of Okinawa Shi through Gushikawa and then crossed the ocean (on a road built up off the shallows) and went out to a couple of islands. There were a few good hills crossing the first island and a cool bridge going to the second island. Kinda fun to go island hopping on a bicycle.
Cruising around the souther end of the island was cool too (going through Itoman, Gushkami, and Yonabaru).
Probably not anybody riding in Okinawa on this board though.

If you are ever going to cycle in Northern Tohoku let me know. Some real good rides up here, especially if you like hills

I've been up that way on business a couple times, but it must get mighty chilly in the winter. What do you do when it gets so cold?


How strong is the cycling community there, other than the abudant mama-cherry bikes

If you mean Tokyo, I am not really the person to ask. It looks like rjtokyo has been pretty involved with pulling together folks.

I have always been more of the solitary commuter type. On weekends, I rode to places that I can reach from home (about a 15km radius). However, I just got a bike bag so that I can carry the bike on a train. I have not done this in quite a few years so I am looking forward to it.

From what I can tell by visiting local shops, there is quite a strong community for Japanese. Don't know about the foreign cycling community.

- Jeff

Probably not anybody riding in Okinawa on this board though.

Not for lack of wishing, though. :)

I had Okinawa on the brain for a while since I wanted to dive Ishigaki. Never thought about it for cycling, though...

- Jeff

Chilly weather, that started about 2 weeks ago. When winter hits I sorely miss central heating. Well in Akita-ken there is one kick ass LBS. Best I've since in comparison to Joker lbs in tokyo and a few in morioka and sendai. The community foreign and local is pretty strong. In the chokai classic there were over 450 finishers in the full road bike race. Not including the those who didn't meet the time limits, or the MTN bikers. or the half course racers.

I was stationed in the Kanto Plains twice, once from 1968 to 1970 and again from 1976 to 1979. Absolutely loved it! Met and married my wife during the first tour.

Most of the roads are about a Toyota and a half wide, how you gonna ride on them? The trucks were scary enough in a Toyopet wagon. I don't think I would have the guts to ride in that area.

I would have to find some trails, if they exist.

Good luck. And if you're ever in Ofuna, say Hi to my Mother-in-Law!

Most of the roads are about a Toyota and a half wide, how you gonna ride on them? The trucks were scary enough in a Toyopet wagon. I don't think I would have the guts to ride in that area.

In the city, the two things that scares me are: when I am riding in traffic and a bus or truck passes me as I am trying to pass a bus (don't realize how big them tires are when until you see them spinning right next to you); taxi drivers who open their doors in the middle of the street (Japanese cabs have automatic doors so you never know when one might fly open). In more open areas, I am constantly scanning for escape routes so if something happens, I can bail off the street- this is when I am glad that I am on fat tires. :)

I am not a particularly aggressive rider, but it does take a certain mindset to ride in Tokyo and I avoid riding the sidewalks.


I would have to find some trails, if they exist.

I just got a bike bag so I intend to take my ride on the train and find some. I have seen a couple good books (in Japanese) on rides around Tokyo. I think I will probably pick one up.

- Jeff

Chilly weather, that started about 2 weeks ago. When winter hits I sorely miss central heating.

Yeah. My wife's parents live in the mountains in Gumma. Her father is a bit old-fashioned so he uses charcoal in the hori-kotasu. Makes your feet smell a bit like a barbecue, but it feels nice... until you get out and realize that the rest of the house is hovering right above freezing. I have woken up there before and seen my breath.


Well in Akita-ken there is one kick ass LBS. Best I've since in comparison to Joker lbs in tokyo and a few in morioka and sendai.

I like Joker and have found a couple other friendly shops around my area as well.

I am quite impressed that there are so many good shops around. When I lived in Japan the first time, there were not as many shops and I made the mistake of taking my bike to a very local guy who only looked at me with disdain for having a mountain bike.

- Jeff

Joker was a nice store, but the staff seemed rude. Maybe I came on a bad day. But here we mainly have full 2 lane roads. Yet the only escape routes I have are into the gajin-traps(eat you alive drainage ditch). Most drivers are really polite, never had an issue. Sometimes the trucks tend to pass you real real realllllll close.

The best is when the ojisans and obasans, and the little kids yell ganbatte

My house is a traditional japanese style. During summer if you open up all the sliding doors, you feel like you are living on a porch. We also get a fairly common problem of roofs collapsing under the snow load.

Chilly weather, that started about 2 weeks ago. When winter hits I sorely miss central heating. Well in Akita-ken there is one kick ass LBS. Best I've since in comparison to Joker lbs in tokyo and a few in morioka and sendai. The community foreign and local is pretty strong. In the chokai classic there were over 450 finishers in the full road bike race. Not including the those who didn't meet the time limits, or the MTN bikers. or the half course racers.

I've always wanted to do Chokai bit it's just too far away from Tokyo :(

The biggest of the hill-climb classics is Norikura with 4,000 riders! I guess we can say there's a health bike culture here. The problem is the police, who simply will not grant permission for open road racing or centuries. Even the Tour of Japan which is on the World Cup circuit is not a proper road race, but rather a series of criteriums in different reagions.

Of well, the mountains are always there and the leaves are turning...

[QUOTE=anikuma]Joker was a nice store, but the staff seemed rude. Maybe I came on a bad day.

Here are my votes for the best bike shops in Japan (sorry, I',m road biased...)

Sagami Cycle Center in Yokohama
Uemura Parts in Osaka and on the Web

Joker was a nice store, but the staff seemed rude. Maybe I came on a bad day.
I have had good and bad days with them. Once was in between, the guy was very helpful, but did not seem too happy about it. :) I found the staff at their "Joker Mania" shop down the street a bit more friendly, but it's a bit more jammed. I have also been to their sister shop in Ikebukuro, Galaxy. Their staff has been even more hit and miss, but they got tons of stuff.


Here are my votes for the best bike shops in Japan (sorry, I',m road biased...)

Sagami Cycle Center in Yokohama
Uemura Parts in Osaka and on the Web

Where in Yokohama is Sagami Cycle Center? I would not mind checking it out if I was in that part of town, but it is a bit out of my way since I live near Shinjuku.

Yeah, it seems like most shops tend to be MTB centric. I guess that's where their business is and with the limited space, they tend towards what sells.

Ever ordered anything online from Cycle Base Asahi?
http://www.cb-asahi.co.jp/
They seem to have a pretty impressive catalog. It is comparable to online catalogs that I have seen anywhere.

I also found a very friendly shop near Naka Meguro Station called Nukaya. They call themselves "USA Bicycle Shop Nukaya" and it is pretty much off-road centric, but they seemed like nice folks. The only thing is that the place is really small so if you are looking for something specific you are better off asking first.

- Jeff

I have had good and bad days with them. Once was in between, the guy was very helpful, but did not seem too happy about it. :) I found the staff at their "Joker Mania" shop down the street a bit more friendly, but it's a bit more jammed. I have also been to their sister shop in Ikebukuro, Galaxy. Their staff has been even more hit and miss, but they got tons of stuff.



Where in Yokohama is Sagami Cycle Center? I would not mind checking it out if I was in that part of town, but it is a bit out of my way since I live near Shinjuku.

Yeah, it seems like most shops tend to be MTB centric. I guess that's where their business is and with the limited space, they tend towards what sells.

Ever ordered anything online from Cycle Base Asahi?
http://www.cb-asahi.co.jp/
They seem to have a pretty impressive catalog. It is comparable to online catalogs that I have seen anywhere.

I also found a very friendly shop near Naka Meguro Station called Nukaya. They call themselves "USA Bicycle Shop Nukaya" and it is pretty much off-road centric, but they seemed like nice folks. The only thing is that the place is really small so if you are looking for something specific you are better off asking first.

- Jeff

Jeff,

Sagami Cycle is in Mitsukyo - Really out of the way, but one of the best road bike shops in the world. Cycle Base Asahi has a big catalog, but sells at list price, which is pretty insane. Uemura's catalog is full of bargains http://www.uemura-cyc.com/home.html

In Tokyo, try Narushima Friend in Sendagaya for a real hard-core road shop with high-end stock at low prices.

Sagami Cycle is in Mitsukyo - Really out of the way, but one of the best road bike shops in the world.

Once I have a road bike, this place would be on my list. Alas, I may not have one until I return to LA... :(


In Tokyo, try Narushima Friend in Sendagaya for a real hard-core road shop with high-end stock at low prices.

I love these names. I live not far from Shinjuku so Sendagaya is close, I can see riding out to check it out even if it just to browse.

Thanks for the advice. Who knows, maybe I can convince my wife to let me get one more bike. I don't know where we would put it, though...

BTW, any advice on good sources in Japan for used bikes? It should be someplace where I can actually touch and feel the bike.

- Jeff

Toki, love your Avatar, is that Backus D? A vitamin drink?

Ribobitan D desu yo........exactly what it says on the bottle.... ;)

...exactly what it says on the bottle.... ;)

Obviously the picture I see must not be as legible as the picture you see... :rolleyes:

Obviously the picture I see must not be as legible as the picture you see... :rolleyes:I had to really squint my eyes to read Katakana on that tiny label on my tiny monitor. ... :)

George

Ribobitan D desu yo........exactly what it says on the bottle.... ;)

Hey, Man, isn't that the stuff Japanese businessmen drink to shake off hang-overs?

Hey, Man, isn't that the stuff Japanese businessmen drink to shake off hang-overs?

I was thinking the same thing, Koreans use it too for the same reason and as a pick-me-up.

Hey, Man, isn't that the stuff Japanese businessmen drink to shake off hang-overs?You can say that..... so after pushing pencils for 14 hours, they'll drink til 2am, get wasted, walk to the train station, hop on the train, retreive their bicycles from the station parking lot, and finally stumble into their tiny apartments at 4am... Get up at 530am, get back on the bike, and to the train station....

George

ugh salaryman life, wouldn't wish that on anyone.....
but there is debate about how much work do they actually do. I know the custom that staying late at work, foresaking family, shows that you are a good employee. Which usually means streching your work so it taker all 10-12 hours to do, rather than just eight hours. plus no time to ride

ugh salaryman life, wouldn't wish that on anyone.....
but there is debate about how much work do they actually do. I know the custom that staying late at work, foresaking family, shows that you are a good employee. Which usually means streching your work so it taker all 10-12 hours to do, rather than just eight hours. plus no time to ride

This is for sure. I worked at a Japanese company in Japan as an intern. The guys would goof off a lot - smoking, drinking coffee, horsing around. They LOOKED busy, but they really didn't hussle. At the end of the day, I said, "hey, let's go get some drinks", and the reply was, "no, we have work to do". I suggested that they had been mosey-poking all day and asked what could possibly be so important now at the end of the day. One of the senior fellows finally pulled me aside and explained that they got paid time and a half after 5:00 PM and that nobody could leave before the manager anyway.

Most workers in the big cities have such small apartments to go home to anyway, being at work is probably a relief. Imagine going home to an apartment that has less total square footage than many USA living rooms. Besides yourself, you have a wife and two kids scrunched around a table that has four sides with exactly enough space for one person per side. If every person at the table put their legs straight, two people would be pushed out. To that add a TV, clothes, a cupboard, miscellaneous stuff, and pretty soon you don't have enough room to take more than two steps without bumping into something or somebody. God bless the Japanese for their tolerence and patience.

One thing that did always impress me was that Japanese business men can go out to drink, smoke, sing, and stay out late. They can get absolutely fried and you are sure that there is no way they will be at work the next day. However, When you arrive at the office in the morning Voila! There they are as perky as a chipmunk ready to get right back to work.

I don't know if it is the vitamins, genetics, or samurai spirit, but Japanese businessmen can really tough it out.

was the samuri a warrior, or later just a thug!? Sorry deeply debated question

was the samuri a warrior, or later just a thug!? Sorry deeply debated question

The samurai was a bureaucrat in fancy dress.

a thug with a fancy dress and a shiny sword........

mike, i know what you mean about those apartments. Luckily I live in the inaka. I guess a problem in many cities lately are empty apartments. Maybe time to knock down some walls and offer people some bigger places to live.

mike, i know what you mean about those apartments. Luckily I live in the inaka. I guess a problem in many cities lately are empty apartments. Maybe time to knock down some walls and offer people some bigger places to live.

That's interesting. I always thought that there was a lot more building going on in Japan (especially Tokyo), than could possibly be used by the population. Once I read that the building boom of the 1980's and early 1990's had taken on an unwarranted momentum and that there are now more empty rooms than there are people in Tokyo.

This must be the case because even the poorest Chinese family has more living space than their Japanese cousins. An interesting thing is that the Japanese people I knew in the early 1980's who enjoyed the biggest economic boom years in world history, today live in the same beehive apartments as they did before the boom. Their lifestyles did not improve one single bit with the exception that their apartments are now more cramped with designer clothes and purses. Perhaps some folks have cars that were less common twenty years ago. Besides that, it must be a sobering realization for many Japanese that, after the smoke clears, very little progress was made for all the efforts put forth.

What a curious phenominon indeed.

An interesting thing is that the Japanese people I knew in the early 1980's who enjoyed the biggest economic boom years in world history, today live in the same beehive apartments as they did before the boom.

It's actually quite simple. Japanese people enjoy pain. :)
I can go on for hours on this one, but since it is painful and I am not really Japanese (by lineage only), I will defer.

By the way, Japanese Energy Drinks are basically small carbonated concocations that contain plenty of vitamins, ginsing, caffiene, and nicotine. We got a case of this Ribovitan D from one of our suppliers as a summer gift. Being in the games industry here, the case was gone very quickly. There is a powerful mint gum here with nicotine and caffeine too.

Lastly, hardest working people people in Japan might be the sales guys. After all, all those late nights are often counted as Meals and Entertainment. :)

- Jeff

It's actually quite simple. Japanese people enjoy pain. :)

- Jeff

Quite true......and in Japanese it's called "GAMAN".......
Even immediately following that big earthquake in Kansai 8 yrs ago the Japanese were very reluctant to accept foreign help/aid......"SHOGANAI"....
Everything in Japan seems to be "shoganai" if things just don't go right....
Unfortunately, I carry that element in my blood...

George

Unfortunately, I carry that element in my blood...

George

Boku mo!

Boku mo!
Hey Paul.....are you a 'happa' like me???

George

Hey Paul.....are you a 'happa' like me???

George


Don't think I know that one. I learned Japanese in Okinawa though so perhaps they don't use that term down there? Or maybe it is just that I am way out of practice! (I know I need to practice but am too shy/embarrassed to actually try and engage someone in conversaition that I know is Japanese).

It's actually quite simple. Japanese people enjoy pain. :)


Cyclists enjoy pain. C'mon admit it's true.

"Happa" is a Japanese slang for half breed and only pretains to one being half Japanese only.....

George

the whole pain thing and many other issues western people have with japan seem to stem from Zen Budishm, and the hodge podge mixture of other faiths.....according to an american turned zen-priest. defiantely a funny country, nice to stay here for awhile, but i couldn't bring myself to raise a family here.

the whole pain thing and many other issues western people have with japan seem to stem from Zen Budishm, and the hodge podge mixture of other faiths

I vote for the hodge podge part. There is a simple patience in Zen Buddhism (the aforementioned GAMAN), but Japanese sometimes go out of their way to feel pain (if it hurts, it must be good for you). Even the Japanese admit that they like standing in long lines...

And, anikuma, you are getting more of the "real deal". Everything in Tokyo is schizophrenic. I only get the pure unadulterated weirdness when I visit my in-laws out in the mountains of Gumma, but in some ways, I like it better.


defiantely a funny country, nice to stay here for awhile, but i couldn't bring myself to raise a family here.

I suppose that if I really wanted to settle here, I could, but I would do it different. I would probably not live near Shinjuku where I do now and I would have to get car only so I could get my bike out into the country. :)

Right now, I just look forward next year when I can enjoy the SoCal weather.

- Jeff

"Happa" is a Japanese slang for half breed and only pretains to one being half Japanese only.....

George


I learned that as nisei. Down in Okinawa I think they use the term hafu as well but I think the term nisei is generally more polite. Always good to learn more tango!

I learned that as nisei. Down in Okinawa I think they use the term hafu as well but I think the term nisei is generally more polite. Always good to learn more tango!
Yeah. I hear "ha-fu" in Japan. I think "ha-ppa" is more the Hawaiian equivalent, but being "ni-kkei", I don't know if I really know what is correct. "Nisei" literally means second generation. Nowadays most people are "san-sei" or "yon-sei" (3rd and 4th gen respectively). I like to say that I am "two and a half generation" to throw people off. :)

The new accepted PC term seems to be "bi-racial" or "bi-cultural". A friend of mine calls his kids "doubles" instead of "halfs".

BTW, to clarify any misunderstanding. I don't dislike Japan for being weird. I was just thinking about it overnight, but the pain thing does have another upside. There tends to be a higher level of social reponsibility here because people are willing to "just deal with it". I dropped my wallet once on a busy street and when I went to the Police Box to report it lost, it was waiting for me! Someone had taken the time to walk over to the police box which was blocks away!

Of course, it was not in Shinjuku. An acquaintance of mine actually had her purse stolen while she was there. I would have not had as much luck there...

- Jeff

That much is true, living in the inaka...we get a steady diet of natto! I do like the inaka better, than the cities. The people here, are very cool, laid back. I don't get all the staring and gajin-da stuff. That usually happens in cities of all places. I knew the inaka-jin were cool when i stopped at a mom and pop grocery store on a 100km ride. Sporting the cycling fashion, and the old ladies who saw me, didn't even blink. They just asked where i was going and wished me luck. it was very cool.

I'm also moving next year. Either to upstate NY or Ontario. Back to university.

I totally agree with you on the weirdness toki, and some of the basic good manners that still exist. Though, little kids have tired to break into my house before. Shogakko students just really curious about the english teachers house.

The only thing that really grinds me about japan is the depiction of women in Manga, and basically how they are treated. I'm not trying to generalize. But some on their manga is real horrifiying. I think that Waseda university gang **** issue is just the tip of the iceberg.

Not saying anywhere else is any better, but sometimes........


Dave

Hey fellow cyclists in Japan. tokyo2wheeler and I (rjtokyo) are doing a ride around Mt. Fuji next Saturday, 11/1. Anyone want to join us? I was over there this past Tuesday and the leaves are starting to turn; should be just right around the 1st. We've got cabins to stay at Friday night at Yamanaka Ko, take off about 6am on Saturday, ride around Kawaguchi Ko, and then the loop around Fuji San. Total about 120km. One big climb (14.4km) on the south side; lots of wide open roads!! What do you think?? :D

We're starting to do rides like these about once a month. If you want to be on the info list let me know. Let's go ride!!

Hey fellow cyclists in Japan. tokyo2wheeler and I (rjtokyo) are doing a ride around Mt. Fuji next Saturday, 11/1. Anyone want to join us? I was over there this past Tuesday and the leaves are starting to turn; should be just right around the 1st. We've got cabins to stay at Friday night at Yamanaka Ko, take off about 6am on Saturday, ride around Kawaguchi Ko, and then the loop around Fuji San. Total about 120km. One big climb (14.4km) on the south side; lots of wide open roads!! What do you think?? :D

We're starting to do rides like these about once a month. If you want to be on the info list let me know. Let's go ride!!

Sounds like a nice ride. I rode to Hinazuru pass in Yamanashi (between Akikawa and Tsuru this Sunday and the leaves are just staring to turn.

Overnights are difficult for me but keep posting your rides. Maybe we will get together sometime.

I rode to Hinazuru pass in Yamanashi (between Akikawa and Tsuru this Sunday and the leaves are just staring to turn.

Sounds like a nice section pucci. Did you come up from Tsuru? We'll be just west of there on Saturday.


Overnights are difficult for me but keep posting your rides. Maybe we will get together sometime.

In case it's still an option, we've changed the trip to just a day ride. Drive in from Tokyo and start the ride around 8am from Shirataki Falls, then do the southern climb while we're still fresh, loop through Yamanaka Ko, around Kawaguchi Ko, then finish back at Shirataki probably around 4pm or so.

Good idea about posting the rides. If something matches your schedule that would be great!

Sounds like a nice section pucci. Did you come up from Tsuru? We'll be just west of there on Saturday.

We rode from Yokohama and turned back at the top of Hinazuru Pass. Came to a bit over 140 kms. The first section up to Sagami-ko is terrible, but from there it is all country roads. There is a really nice wooded climb along the undeveloped side of Sagami-ko that leads to Fujino. You wouldn't believe it is the other side of the same lake - no dump trucks, no love hotels, no swan boats.


In case it's still an option, we've changed the trip to just a day ride. Drive in from Tokyo and start the ride around 8am from Shirataki Falls, then do the southern climb while we're still fresh, loop through Yamanaka Ko, around Kawaguchi Ko, then finish back at Shirataki probably around 4pm or so.

This weekend is looking very tricky, but keep posting.

"Happa" is a Japanese slang for half breed and only pretains to one being half Japanese only.....

George

I was never one to get all wrapped up in political correctness, but I always felt that the term "half-breed" was very insulting.

It seems from some of the posts that George (the Fixer) is multi-cultural Japanese American, but still he uses this term.

Are other Japanese-Americans using the term half-breed to refer to multi-cultural people these days? I must be way out of touch.