Fifty Plus (50+) - Good offer on '07 Madone

Hubby's been bike shopping for me while I earn the money to pay for it. :) Today he stopped into a shop where he got a good offer on a bike for himself -- an '07 Trek Madone 5.2 (Discovery) on sale for $2150. ('08 MSRP is $3679.99) It has a full carbon frame and a mix of Dura Ace and Ultegra parts. He wasn't able to ride it because it was raining. :( The size was 58 (he's 6 feet tall, long legs). He believes it was the Performance model, not the Pro.

We've been researching Madones (thanks to Tom, who mentioned his friends love theirs) and have read nothing but great things about them.

Assuming it fits him.... is this a steal?

My earlier post was regarding the new '08 Madones, which are a significant redesign from the '07 models.

However the '08 models are in demand and are difficult to get more than a trivial discount on. The '07 Madone was a very well respected bike and I believe the 5.2 had a MRSP of $3350. Lance won a TdF on the '06 Madone, which was almost the same bike, so it must be pretty good!

Now from a personal riding experience, I can't say anything as I've never ridden a Madone and even if I did, I'm not in any position to render judgement on it.

Hubby's been bike shopping for me while I earn the money to pay for it. :) Today he stopped into a shop where he got a good offer on a bike for himself -- an '07 Trek Madone 5.2 (Discovery) on sale for $2150. ('08 MSRP is $3679.99) It has a full carbon frame and a mix of Dura Ace and Ultegra parts. He wasn't able to ride it because it was raining. :( The size was 58 (he's 6 feet tall, long legs). He believes it was the Performance model, not the Pro.

We've been researching Madones (thanks to Tom, who mentioned his friends love theirs) and have read nothing but great things about them.

Assuming it fits him.... is this a steal?

Do it!

I rode one last summer -- a friend's bike -- a sweet ride! It helped me see the path to carbon fiber (2 out of 5 bikes in the RR & cgallagh house are CF). But he should ride it before he begins to haggle. See if there's anything comparable on eBay and Craigslist, so he has some bargaining leverage.

And get yourself one, too, while you're at it. :D

Do it!

I rode one last summer -- a friend's bike -- a sweet ride! It helped me see the path to carbon fiber (2 out of 5 bikes in the RR & cgallagh house are CF). But he should ride it before he begins to haggle. See if there's anything comparable on eBay and Craigslist, so he has some bargaining leverage.

And get yourself one, too, while you're at it. :D

That's just what Hubby will be happy to hear. :)

I still want to ride the Roubaix or Ruby in my size so we are scouting around for those bikes. The Roubaix I rode was soooooo smooooooth, and if the Ruby is a better fit then it could be bike heaven for me.

This evening I stopped on my way home and looked at a Cannondale Synapse Fem 3, last year's model marked down to almost $2000.00. Carbon frame, Ultegra and 105 components. No pedals though, and it was raining. :( I also sat on a Trek Pilot 5.0 in a size too small, but the reach felt comfortable for me.

I have a 07 Madone 5.2 standard. I love it and use it daily.

I have also used the next model up. I think 5.5 or so. It is all Dura Ace. The shifting of gears is crisper and it has some subtle features better than my bike. But there is a lot more money here.

I paid $2,300. No regrets, good bike. The tires will not hold up. You need Bontrager Hard-case if you want to do any mileage.
BTW, I have the 58 and I am just a bit over 6 feet. The next size bigger is too big.
Oh, I forgot, the saddle stinks. I use a Terry Touring saddle.

...This evening I stopped on my way home and looked at a Cannondale Synapse Fem 3, last year's model marked down to almost $2000.00. Carbon frame, Ultegra and 105 components. No pedals though, and it was raining. :( I also sat on a Trek Pilot 5.0 in a size too small, but the reach felt comfortable for me.

Hi Yen,

I've heard great things about this bike. Hope it stops raining soon so you can take it for a spin. :)

TruF: About which one -- the Synapse or the Pilot?

Lance won a TdF on the '06 Madone, which was almost the same bike, so it must be pretty good!


Oh, give me a break! Lance could have won the Tour on a frigging Schwinn Varsity, and we all know it!

Scott P
Bend, OR

Hubby's been bike shopping for me while I earn the money to pay for it. :) Today he stopped into a shop where he got a good offer on a bike for himself -- an '07 Trek Madone 5.2 (Discovery) on sale for $2150. ('08 MSRP is $3679.99) It has a full carbon frame and a mix of Dura Ace and Ultegra parts. He wasn't able to ride it because it was raining. :( The size was 58 (he's 6 feet tall, long legs). He believes it was the Performance model, not the Pro.

We've been researching Madones (thanks to Tom, who mentioned his friends love theirs) and have read nothing but great things about them.

Assuming it fits him.... is this a steal?

That is a lot of bike and at a very good price. I don't recall the wheelsets they put on the '07 5.2. If they are the Race X Lites instead of the Race Lites it's even better as they are lighter. However if you're riding mostly rolling terrain the Race Lites are very durable wheels-I have tons of miles on one set I've had for 6 years. If he stepped into a bike like that he should be set for a good long while.

Do you recall which parts were Ultegra and which were DuraAce? I would hope for at least DA shifters (just personal preference) but I bet they are Ultegra.

A 58 should be a very good size for him-unless he has really long legs in relation to this upper torso and arms. The main thing is seeing if they would swap stems if he needs something that is a different length. If I were in the market for a bike and this one was available I'd wouldn't hesitate to take it if it was a good fit.

I ride a 2005 Madone 5.2 and also have a 2004 Trek 5.9 SL which are very similar to the one you're looking at. They are very good, all around road bikes.

That sounds like a good price for that bike, Yen.

I have a Madone 5.0 WSD and I've been very pleased with it. It's light, shifts like a dream and I've had no problems with it since I purchased it over a year ago. The 5.0 is all Ultegra so I can't compare it to the Dura-Ace components on the 5.2. I believe the rear deraileur on the 5.2 is Dura-Ace.

As Will mentioned the Bontrager saddles aren't too comfortable. I've changed to a Specialized saddle on mine. I have two other Trek bikes and the Bontragers have been changed out on them also. Other people have no problem with them but they evidently don't fit my tush:o

If it is the 2007 Madone SL 5.2, then it has a Dura-Ace RD. Info & pic here:

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2007/archive/madonesl52

Under "Colors Available" you can click on the blue/black to see it in that color combo.

That sounds like a good price for that bike, Yen.


As Will mentioned the Bontrager saddles aren't too comfortable. I've changed to a Specialized saddle on mine. I have two other Trek bikes and the Bontragers have been changed out on them also. Other people have no problem with them but they evidently don't fit my tush:o

Never really looked at the treks but in the higher range of bikes- they are something to be proud of and worth having. In fact they do a WSD version so another bike for you to look at. Discount for Bulk Buys?

And I am afraid that I am not a Bontrager fan. It may be the inhouse name for Trekk parts- but I am afraid that I am not keen on anything that has the bontrager name attached to it. And I have to agree about the saddles. Try to get upgrade it before you leave the shop.

Bontrager was an independent bicycle & parts manufacturer that Trek bought out a few years back. That is now their trade name on Trek designed parts. Several of these parts are manufactured under contract by Shimano and SRAM. Just like Shimano and SRAM, they offer a full range of parts, from low to high prices. On the high end consider that many of the parts on Trek's TdF-sponsored race team, the team has finished #1 overall in several recent TdF's, were Bontrager-branded parts.

On the $8200 Trek Madone 6.9 Pro, it has Bontrager-branded wheels, fork, tires, saddle, handlebars, and stem.

Unlike a store-brand line, which is often intended to be a lower-cost off-name line, Trek considers the Bontrager brand to be a first-rate brand name. Worthy of consideration at any price point, for any level of competition.

Bontrager was an independent bicycle & parts manufacturer that Trek bought out a few years back. That is now their trade name on Trek designed parts. Several of these parts are manufactured under contract by Shimano and SRAM. Just like Shimano and SRAM, they offer a full range of parts, from low to high prices. On the high end consider that many of the parts on Trek's TdF-sponsored race team, the team has finished #1 overall in several recent TdF's, were Bontrager-branded parts.

On the $8200 Trek Madone 6.9 Pro, it has Bontrager-branded wheels, fork, tires, saddle, handlebars, and stem.

Unlike a store-brand line, which is often intended to be a lower-cost off-name line, Trek considers the Bontrager brand to be a first-rate brand name. Worthy of consideration at any price point, for any level of competition.

My problem with Bontrager parts is that they are Mediocre parts at high prices. Never owned a trek, except for an old 820, but from mountain biking- Guess who's the mechanic for his mates? Bontager MTB wheels are not good. Saddles uncomfortable- Cranksets flexible- Seat and bar stems heavy- And as for the tyres---Rubbish.

Had a mate who had a Puncture on a ride. Bontrager wheels- We bent the rim trying to get the tyre off- Next week he was back with new Warranty wheels- Tried before the ride and loaned him a pair of wheels. Sent the wheels back to the shop and asked them to get the tyres off. 2 weeks later and a new set of upgraded wheels arrived. 4 weeks later another puncture- Tyres came off the rim with the puncture and a wrecked rim. That was the front wheel. Shop said it was abuse so I took the rear wheel in- let the air out of the tube- and pushed the tyre off the rim with one finger-- No lip on the rim to retain the tyre. We got a set of Mavics to replace them.

Perhaps my experience with Bontrager parts has not been good- or bad luck- but I do not like Bontrager parts. And I dare say there are people out there with the same opinions on Specialised- or Ritchey- or Formula? Formula are another component manufacturer that I rate as highly as Bontrager so it is not a crusade against one Make.

My local trusted LBS owner, who has been extraordinarily candid with me about manufacturers, being quite critical of some of lines and parts that he carries, has told me that over the past couple of years, his experience with Bontrager parts has been extremely positive. Same with SRAM. But much less so with Shimano, especially in their lower to mid-priced components.

I pointed out that many of the tags hanging from his bikes promote that they have Shimano drivetrains and he replied that it sells bikes. But that from his experience in servicing warranties (he owns 4 bike shops and sells hundreds upon hundreds of bikes a year) is that Shimano parts have higher failure rates and he has a more difficult time in getting them to stand behind their warranties. Told me on the bikes that I was looking at that if I got SRAM drivetrain components (X.7 or above) and Bontrager wheelsets, that the odds of me having problems would be much lower.

TruF: About which one -- the Synapse or the Pilot?

Oops! The Feminine.

There is such a wide range of quality and price within the range of any brand of parts, that it is silly to make general claims about all of them based on a few good or bad examples.

I recently took a test ride on a Cannondale Synapse and was favorably impressed by it ... for a road bike. It had a smooth ride, shifted very crisply, handled well. Rode most of the time on the flats, tried a bit down on the hoods but just can't get comfortable there. Stayed out of the drops entirely. Of course riding on the flats presents problems when one wants to shift gears or brake.

Going back to touch on the issue of Bontrager saddles. A number of people in various BF forums have spoken negatively of their saddles. Not everyone, as I have also read positive reviews. But it seems like there are more negatives than normal.

I've followed up on this by stating at three different large Trek stores, "So, I read on the Internet that many people are dissatisfied with your Bontrager saddles." I do this just to see how they react. Each time they have seemed surprised by this and have said that they hear few complaints about the saddles. That when their customers bring bikes back in for service and tuneups, they almost always still have Bontrager saddles on them. This includes, so they say, the road bikes.

Personally, I don't have an opinion on the issue, as I've only ridden on them during test rides. I've found the hybrid saddles reasonably comfortable, but have disliked the road bike saddles. But I dislike all road bike saddles - hard little pointy instruments of pain that they are.

I do find it interesting that there seems to be two different populations of bike riders that do have disparate opinions. I agree with the Trek people that seeing bikes come back in with the original saddles still on them, and having people speak well of the bike, is a valid argument. But then there are so many people here who hate them.

... The size was 58 (he's 6 feet tall, long legs). He believes it was the Performance model, not the Pro. ...Assuming it fits him.... is this a steal?

Got my 05 Madone 5.2 (in the special Red, White & Blue) for $2,000 about 18 months ago. Love the ride.

Your $2,150 is a great price. Not unexpected with the 08 model changes placing them in demand and 07 & earlier as "old" tech.

I would jump at it, BUT my guess is that he needs a 60cm and would find a 58cm a little small.

Going back to touch on the issue of Bontrager saddles. A number of people in various BF forums have spoken negatively of their saddles. Not everyone, as I have also read positive reviews. But it seems like there are more negatives than normal.

I am one that tends to change out the stock saddle for something better. The Madone 5.2 still has the original Bontrager saddle on it, even though I have a choice of other saddles in the spare parts bin.

Hey everyone, thanks so much for your replies.

Hubby rode an '08 Madone 5.2 today, 58cm. He was able to take it for a ride through town, and LOVED it. They took his measurements, put them into the computer, and seemed to determine that the 58 is a good fit for him (his Trek 7500 is a 57, and is plenty big enough). He loves the fit of his Schwinn road bike (an old '72 he's had for years) so he's already accustomed to the feel of a road bike.

At the store where he saw the '07 5.2 yesterday, he said they have 2 size 54, and 2 size 58. Hmmmmmm... one for each of us! :)

I have yet to ride another bike this week due to the rain. He called around for me today and found a Roubaix Elite at two different stores, one is size 54 (the other size is unknown). Also a Roubaix Comp in a 54, and Madones in lots of sizes.

Last night I stood over an '07 Cannondale Synapse Fem Carbon 3, MSRP $2300, on sale for $1840, 53 cm. But it was raining... He said they could probably come down on it further. I also liked that they will fit me on the bike if I buy it there.

The thrill of the hunt!

At the store where he saw the '07 5.2 yesterday, he said they have 2 size 54, and 2 size 58. Hmmmmmm... TWO for each of us! :)
Fixed.

A couple of random observations based on earlier comments in this thread. I bought an '08 Madone 5.5 ("performance" fit) last fall, after riding a 5200 for several years.

1) The bike has Bontrager Racelite wheels, which seem fine, but the factory-built wheels were messed up. Several of the spokes on the front wheel were almost completely loose, and did work completely loose after 100 miles or so. I had to have the wheel re-trued twice in the first couple of weeks.
2) I hated the stock Bontrager saddle. I rode it 20 miles when I first got the bike, and was already sore from it. I swapped it out for the Specialized Toupe which I had been happy with on the 5200.
3) This one is dumb, but annoying. When they taped the bars they didn't insert any tape into the bar ends, but just cut the tape off flush with the ends. Thus the bar caps were very loose, and I lost one somewhere along the line in the first couple of weeks.

Hopefully some of these issues were just early-model run hiccups, and they've ironed the problems out since then.

Other than that I've been extremely happy with the bike, and would be out riding it today if it weren't for the ****** freezing rain that's coming down!

If it is full DA then the price is good if the mix is just an Ultegra FD then that is probably good as well. If it does not have DA brifters, crank and RD then I would probably buy an 08. You can get a brand new 08 Madone with Ultegra SL for about $2,800 around here.

A couple of random observations based on earlier comments in this thread. I bought an '08 Madone 5.5 ("performance" fit) last fall, after riding a 5200 for several years.

3) This one is dumb, but annoying. When they taped the bars they didn't insert any tape into the bar ends, but just cut the tape off flush with the ends. Thus the bar caps were very loose, and I lost one somewhere along the line in the first couple of weeks.


The bars usually come out of the box un-taped (at least the ones I see my LBS working on). They are then taped by the LBS, so it was probably a mechanic or kid who did a poor job.

Also, some of the Treks (Pilots and some others) have the "Bzzz-kill" vibration dampeners in the ends of the handlebars. The bar tape is not tucked inside of that setup, the Bzzz-Kills fit very tight on their own.

Going back to touch on the issue of Bontrager saddles. A number of people in various BF forums have spoken negatively of their saddles. Not everyone, as I have also read positive reviews. But it seems like there are more negatives than normal.
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I do find it interesting that there seems to be two different populations of bike riders that do have disparate opinions. I agree with the Trek people that seeing bikes come back in with the original saddles still on them, and having people speak well of the bike, is a valid argument. But then there are so many people here who hate them.

Tom:
I like to put my experience into this discussion.
I love my Madone 5.2 and used it as is without prejudice. Around here I biked 50 miles/day and had zero complaints and problems.
Going to FL changed that. I started doing 100 miles/day. It took 3-4 days to develop ache in my sit bones which turned into pain. I changed to a Terry Touring saddle and solved that problem same day.

The Bontrager Race Lite tires hold up 2,000 miles. That is OK if you do not bike as I do. It is not OK if you do over 100 miles/day. Continentals and Bontrager Hard Case are much better. Schwalbe also did not hold up.

I think that the Madone is a wonderful bike for a good price and recommend it to anyone. My Son is going to get one soon. The two issues above are not fatal flaws.

Yen:
I may be beating a death horse but I got badly burned and hate to see someone else suffer as I did.

Do not buy a bike frame that is too big. That causes a lot of grief. A little bit too small will not kill you. I hang around some very accomplished bikers. They tend to go down with the frame size and not up. You do not want to reach for the bars and you do not want to sit on the nose of the saddle either. Your knees should be over the crank and not behind.

Thanks everyone.

Will: Funny you should say that. We visited the shop tonight and I sat on a 54cm and 58cm Madone. The 54 felt way too long; my sit bones weren't anywhere near the saddle.:eek: Surprisingly (though not as much after doing some reading tonight), the 58 felt like a shorter reach, probably because the head tube was higher (being a larger bike) and my sit bones were on the saddle, but the geometry felt very aggressive. Then, I asked about Specialized models. I sat on a Specialized Allez, 56cm -- now I could feel the difference between a too-big/aggressive bike (Madone), vs. one that's my size but just needs some stem adjustments (the Allez).

We came home and did some reading about fittings, including the article about proper bike fit at the Rivendell site which says that most shops (and buyers) tend to aim too small. By their fitting chart, I'd ride a 58cm (based on my PBH - pubic bone height, which is 85cm). I'm almost 5'9" and my inseam is 31".http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/article/bike_fit/fit_sizing_position. If we go by the Rivendell site instead of what they tell me at the bike shops, I'm afraid we'll be in a tug of war at the LBS and they'll lose their desire to serve us. Most of the guys say I should be on a 54 or 56 bike.

One LBS owner told me I'm just going to get overwhelmed if I do too much comparing of bikes..... but how else will I know the right bike to get??? I think it is worth my time to compare the geometry of the different bikes, ride different sizes for comparison and to see which one feels best, and pick the one that feels best, has the components I like, hopefully in a color I like.

If it's not raining tomorrow, we'll head for several different shops. It's late here now and my brain hurts....

Yen: I am 5' 9" and also have an inseam of 31" My 4 bikes run from 54cm to 56 being the largest.

You may want to have a professional fitting done by a qualified shop.
There are many qualified systems out there but the one I personally familiar with is the Serotta system.
The technician has to be certified at the Serotta factory and they have more than one level of training.
They first measure you but they then examine your level of flexibity in your back and hamstrings.
If you go this route expect to pay upwards of $200 but the process takes 2-3 hrs.
Bring your riding clothes and esp your shoes as they will have you ride on a trainer and help you set up your cleats and you can try on various saddles.

I hated the Bontrager saddle on my 5.2 Madone and swapped on a Fizik Arione. It's the only upgrade I have done so far. It's a very good bike esp for the price.

That is surprising that the 54 felt longer than the 58 and must be down to set up of the bike. As you say- it could be down to the head tube height- but was this a WSD bike? I have only looked at the Giant site- but their WSD bikes do have a shorter top tube and taller head tube. (link below And click on a bike and look at the geometry) And there is more to a WSD frame than sizing of the frame. Saddles- bar width and brake lever length come to mind as other changes.

And as to the LBS owner saying that looking at too many bikes will confuse you--- When you sit on "THE" bike it will tell you immediately. Unless you find that bike- Don't buy anything else. Idon't have your problems- but My First bike- the OCR- was bought to get me onto Road riding. When I looked at the second bike I tried quite a few. When I sat on Boreas- that was it. Hands fell right- Butt on the saddle perfectly (in fact no Butt pain) Leg length was there and Test ride confirmed everything. Even the fact that it came as a Frame and forks package was ideal as I knew I wanted some unusual speccing and could do it.

And even if it is raining- Get out to the shops. Looking at the bikes- sitting on them and talking to the staff will eliminate or add bikes to your list for later consideration.



http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-US/bikes/women/

Are you comparing a men's 54 vs a men's 58 Madone? I'm assuming yes as they don't make a 58 WSD model.

I've never heard of anyone saying that the bigger bike reach felt shorter. The 58's top tube is about 1.5" longer than the 54's. Which is a pretty good difference.

Did you try a 56 WSD? 56 is considered to be an XL woman's size by most companies, many WSD bikes aren't even made in that large a size. A 58 man's bike is made for a guy of close to 6' tall with typical longer arms of a man. Even a 6' woman would not usually be fit to a 58. That sounds like too large a bike for someone who is 5'9" with a 31" inseam. Especially if your arms are not as long as a typical guy of 5'9" (which is usually the case).

According to the charts I've seen, a women who is 5'9" with an inseam of 31" should be on a 53-54 WSD. I can understand why the bike shops are putting you on that size. Especially if you are telling them that you want to try to keep some weight off of your wrist.

I guess what I'm saying is that if I were you, I would want to be very sure of what I was doing before spending $2000+ on a bike in a size that both the charts and sales people are telling me is too large.

Just found the bike size fitting chart. While people vary all over the place on leg length, arm length, torso length, riding condition, flexibility, etc. Here's what the average person who would ride a 58 man's bike would be:

Height: 5'11"
Inseam: 33.5"-34" (although one can get away with less on a compact frame.)

And their normal top tube length to fit their upper body and arm length is 56.5 cm.

I would suggest trying a Trek WSD 56, Cannondale Synapse Feminine 56, or Specialized Ruby or Dolce 56. Those are intended for women who are taller than you, so those would be good upper end starting points.

The Specialized Allez you tried is a men's bike too, no Allez's are made as WSDs. Although if you have longer arms and broader shoulders, then you might fit a men's bike better.

I could have added this comment about frame sizing. I'm 5'8". On the 5200 I took a 54. The only 5.5 that was available was a 56, so I tried it just for the heck of it, and it seems to fit me perfectly well. Maybe it's the "performance" fit that makes the difference, or the semi-compact frame design of the 08 models.

Thank you for posting your comments. Did anyone read and agree (or disagree) with the Rivendell article? I'm interested in your feedback on that.

Hubby is 6' with long legs. The Rivendell size chart puts him on a 61cm bike. He measured the size of his old Schwinn on which he feels great: 61cm (rounded up slightly). On the other hand his Trek 7500 is a 58 and the seat is raised way up, too high, to fit him. Based on his personal experience with these two bikes and how he feels on the Schwinn, he agrees with the Rivendell chart.

As for me, the jury is still out. I'll wait to see how I fit on various sizes of bikes and I'll pick the one on which I feel "just right".

As for the Madones and the Allez: All 3 of them were men's bikes. I wanted to see how I'd feel on a 56cm so he took down the Allez for me to try. Since I'm not long-armed (not short either) a WSD might be good for me given my desire to not lean too much. However.... and here's another consideration.... I do want to leave open the possibility to lower the stem later if I want to into a more leaning position if my flexibility and strength improve through riding.

It's a beautiful sunny day today and we'll head out in a couple of hours.

At one shop last night, the young man who helped us highly praised their fitter ("awesome"). Another shop has a mechanic who is very particular about making sure a rider fits the bike and will also put me on a trainer and make any necessary adjustments (if I buy the bike there). I'd really prefer a shop that does this type of fitting at the type of purchase to really dial me in. I don't think there's a shop who would tell me they don't care how I fit on the bike, but the shop where I bought my Giant didn't offer anything like that type of a fitting.

Yen

I could have added this comment about frame sizing. I'm 5'8". On the 5200 I took a 54. The only 5.5 that was available was a 56, so I tried it just for the heck of it, and it seems to fit me perfectly well. Maybe it's the "performance" fit that makes the difference, or the semi-compact frame design of the 08 models.

That could be. Or, perhaps it's because you gave a larger frame a try. If you tried only the size you thought you'd ride and they had one in that color, you might never have tried the 56.

You'll find that stores tend to be much more concerned about fitting someone who is buying a $2000 road bike than someone buying a closeout hybrid. A hybrid's geometry has a wider fit range, with its sloped top tube and adjustable stem.

Rivendell's size chart can be a bit tricky. It can vary from bike to bike. A 56 Saluki has a top tube of 57cm. A 56 Rambouillet has a top tube of 56cm. A 57 Legolas has a top tube of 56.5cm.

For example on one of his own pages, Grant writes:

"I/Grant have a PBH of 85 and ride a 58 Saluki, a 59 A. Homer Hilsen, a 56 Atlantis with Albatross bars, and I'm getting a 52 Bombadil."

That site isn't always careful about providing information for women. Some of those bikes are sized for men and it could be problematic to follow only what he has written to determine a size. If he sized you in person, it might be different that what his site would seem to recommend. It would normally go that a women with a PBH of 85 would have shorter arms than a man with the same 85 PBH. If so, then that would most likely result in them being fit to different sized bikes.

Have you found any shops that had one of these?

http://www.bikecomfort.com/

Most of them will give you a quick 5-10 minute body scan and measurement printout for free. But it isn't all that useful unless you pay them to use it to professionally fit you.

It's pretty neat. I have a printout with my measurements.

Tom: No, I haven't seen that yet, or at least not shown to us. They all say that they have a way of taking our measurements and fitting us to the bike at the time of purchase. My preference is a shop that will also take a measurement or two while I'm test riding, before I buy, rather than just stand there and let us guess.

I have to admit that I feel intimidated every time we go to a shop. I am trying to educate myself as much as possible so I will be (and appear) knowledgeable and keep them on their toes, so they won't see us as just hybrid-riders-turned-wannabee-roadies and look down their nose at us. We take this very seriously and don't want to be anything but what we are -- cyclists who want the right bike for US.

Thank you for posting your comments. Did anyone read and agree (or disagree) with the Rivendell article? I'm interested in your feedback on that.

Yen

The Rivendell fitting formula on their web site emphasizes sit bone height as the primary measurement from which all else follows. I guess I don't see how that formula applies as strongly to compact-like frames which is what the Madone sorta is. Also, the reach of the bike (mainly defined by the top tube length and fine-tuned using the stem) is extremely important for attaining the comfortable ride you are after. If you don't get this in the ball park--particularly if the tt is too long--then the bike can never be comfortable for you.

In my case, my legs are slightly longer in proportion to my torso compared to the average male. That means that I end up going with a smaller stock designed-for-men frame in order to get the reach just right. This would also be typical for an average female fitting on a stock male bike.

I would just add that, at least for the Specialized lineup, that "WSD" = women specific designs are almost the same as men's designs re-labeled one size up. So, comparing the main triangle measurements of a 54 cm Ruby (WSD) to a 52 cm Roubaix (men's design) the tt is 537mm and the st is 480mm with the seat tube angle 74 degrees on both!

Tom: No, I haven't seen that yet, or at least not shown to us. They all say that they have a way of taking our measurements and fitting us to the bike at the time of purchase. My preference is a shop that will also take a measurement or two while I'm test riding, before I buy, rather than just stand there and let us guess.

I have to admit that I feel intimidated every time we go to a shop. I am trying to educate myself as much as possible so I will be (and appear) knowledgeable and keep them on their toes, so they won't see us as just hybrid-riders-turned-wannabee-roadies and look down their nose at us. We take this very seriously and don't want to be anything but what we are -- cyclists who want the right bike for US.

How about going with an experienced friend or club member who is recognized as knowledgeable and has an existing relationship with a seriously good LBS. If you come up here to NoCal then we have LBS's that will put you on a "FitCycle" which has so many diffent adjustments it will make your head swim and can be adjusted exactly right for you while you are riding (on a trainer-like device in the store). It is best to find such an LBS close to you if possible.

Hey everyone, thanks so much for your replies.

Hubby rode an '08 Madone 5.2 today, 58cm. He was able to take it for a ride through town, and LOVED it. They took his measurements, put them into the computer, and seemed to determine that the 58 is a good fit for him (his Trek 7500 is a 57, and is plenty big enough). He loves the fit of his Schwinn road bike (an old '72 he's had for years) so he's already accustomed to the feel of a road bike.

At the store where he saw the '07 5.2 yesterday, he said they have 2 size 54, and 2 size 58. Hmmmmmm... one for each of us! :)

I have yet to ride another bike this week due to the rain. He called around for me today and found a Roubaix Elite at two different stores, one is size 54 (the other size is unknown). Also a Roubaix Comp in a 54, and Madones in lots of sizes.

Last night I stood over an '07 Cannondale Synapse Fem Carbon 3, MSRP $2300, on sale for $1840, 53 cm. But it was raining... He said they could probably come down on it further. I also liked that they will fit me on the bike if I buy it there.

The thrill of the hunt!

Yen, have you looked at Georgena Terry bikes? She pretty much started the "special for us women" thing, before Trek, Spec, Giant, and the rest jumped on. They have an active line-up of road bikes. They sell from their website and from stores around the country. Worth looking into! My wife loves Terry's clothing, and if their attention to detail in cycling shorts for women is any indication, the bikes should be very good, too.

They don't list your bullhorn option, but if you happen to have a Terry dealer in your area, you can work it out, or (like Mrs. Road Fan does), just get your nice buddy at home to help you out.

Road Fan

A couple of random observations based on earlier comments in this thread. I bought an '08 Madone 5.5 ("performance" fit) last fall, after riding a 5200 for several years.

1) The bike has Bontrager Racelite wheels, which seem fine, but the factory-built wheels were messed up. Several of the spokes on the front wheel were almost completely loose, and did work completely loose after 100 miles or so. I had to have the wheel re-trued twice in the first couple of weeks.
2) I hated the stock Bontrager saddle. I rode it 20 miles when I first got the bike, and was already sore from it. I swapped it out for the Specialized Toupe which I had been happy with on the 5200.
3) This one is dumb, but annoying. When they taped the bars they didn't insert any tape into the bar ends, but just cut the tape off flush with the ends. Thus the bar caps were very loose, and I lost one somewhere along the line in the first couple of weeks.

Hopefully some of these issues were just early-model run hiccups, and they've ironed the problems out since then.

Other than that I've been extremely happy with the bike, and would be out riding it today if it weren't for the ****** freezing rain that's coming down!

I don't buy tht it's an early model issue! Those Trek factories have been building bikes since the '70s, you'd think they'd have the skills available to launch a $2500-$3500 product.

Thanks everyone.

Will: Funny you should say that. We visited the shop tonight and I sat on a 54cm and 58cm Madone. The 54 felt way too long; my sit bones weren't anywhere near the saddle.:eek: Surprisingly (though not as much after doing some reading tonight), the 58 felt like a shorter reach, probably because the head tube was higher (being a larger bike) and my sit bones were on the saddle, but the geometry felt very aggressive. Then, I asked about Specialized models. I sat on a Specialized Allez, 56cm -- now I could feel the difference between a too-big/aggressive bike (Madone), vs. one that's my size but just needs some stem adjustments (the Allez).

We came home and did some reading about fittings, including the article about proper bike fit at the Rivendell site which says that most shops (and buyers) tend to aim too small. By their fitting chart, I'd ride a 58cm (based on my PBH - pubic bone height, which is 85cm). I'm almost 5'9" and my inseam is 31".http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/article/bike_fit/fit_sizing_position. If we go by the Rivendell site instead of what they tell me at the bike shops, I'm afraid we'll be in a tug of war at the LBS and they'll lose their desire to serve us. Most of the guys say I should be on a 54 or 56 bike.

One LBS owner told me I'm just going to get overwhelmed if I do too much comparing of bikes..... but how else will I know the right bike to get??? I think it is worth my time to compare the geometry of the different bikes, ride different sizes for comparison and to see which one feels best, and pick the one that feels best, has the components I like, hopefully in a color I like.

If it's not raining tomorrow, we'll head for several different shops. It's late here now and my brain hurts....

This is probably the most complicated subject in biking. I agree with Gerry Chan about getting a professional fitting done. Especially with our older bones and joints, it's important to have the bike adapting to you rather than vice-versa. Take for example your experience where your sit bones were too far forward. The real critical issue in fore-aft is where your knees want to be, for your most efficient pedalling. I feel and my fitter agrees that your butt wants to take a position (and it will after say 20 minutes of riding) where your pedalling has its best efficiency. For some people (I am one) this posiiton has your knees over the pedal spindle (KOPS). It is not however a strong rule that applies to every one. For me I need a seat positioned to meet my sit bones at the proper height and proviidng support for that pedalling posiiton. After that the reach (top tube, 'bar height, stem extension are worked out.

A lot of people ride and love Rivendells, and their sizing has worked for them. But I think what's on their site is the company's philosophy, and sizing methodology for their bikes, not a generally applicable method of sizing and fitting.

I have had professional fitting done for one bike, and the results were excellent. The method was not Serotta, but I would recommend seeing if you can buy from a shop that uses Serotta's method and has a highly-certified and experienced practitioner, especially considering your hand issue. Shops that are good at this will usually do a very thorough fitting free with a new bike.

In retrospect, I'm not sure we chose well with Mrs. Road Fan's shop and fitter.

Road Fan

I'll pitch in if it's okay!

I have two Treks that are the aggressive road models and they are really very different in sizes. One is a 58 and the other is a 62. Yen, I can relate to how the smaller bike felt longer. I had the same initial feeling with my 58-I had been riding a 62 for a few years and I was really surprised that the 58 would feel that way.

I think you're own to something around the head tube. Plus, the other thing is what you mentioned related to your husband-on the smaller bike (58 for me) the seat sits up a lot higher from the top tube. In fact I'm maxed out on how far out I can extend the seat post and could actually stand for it to be a little higher that what it is. I'm wondering if the saddle being higher to the bars made it feel longer-it did for me anyway.

I've been professionally fitted so I know what my dimensions need to be. I took those and made adjustments to the stems and seat posts to give me the dimensions I need. However, even after flipping the stem to cut down on some of the drop from the saddle to the bars on the 58 it is still about an inch lower than the 62.

Both bikes are fitted well enough to where I can ride either one for 6+ hours and feel just as comfortable on one as the other. However because the bars are a little higher on the 62 I probably prefer it for just all round comfort.

If I were to do it all over, I'd probably go with a 60. It keeps the bars a little higher and puts me in a more comfortable range for the seat post. But I've found you can ride different sized frames if they are fitted correctly to you.

Good luck on your search!

I took advantage of our improving weather, it was 28 & sunny today, to go out and ride a couple of bikes to reconfirm my own fit measurement estimates. Rode a Trek 7.6 FX 17.5" for the fourth time in 18 months, but the first time in several months. Also rode a Trek 4500 18" mountain bike, which has measurements very similar to some of the mountain bike steel frames that I'm considering.

The rides were a success as they did confirm that I have pretty much zero'ed in on what fits me. Both bikes were quite comfortable. I expected the slightly longer top tube of the 4500 to be close to the upper end of my comfort range and that's pretty much what it felt like ... although I might be able to deal with a few more mm's.

Also re-confirmed that I don't like 175mm crank arms, which I already knew.

I think I'm there as far as fit goes.

Boy my brain is tired.

We went to several different shops today within about 20 miles from home. I rode a Specialized Sequoia, a few Roubaix, and a couple of Rubys. Oh, and a very expensive S-Works :love: (just to try the frame size).

The geometry of the Sequoia was very comfortable, but I want the carbon frame of the Roubaix or the Ruby. Two of the shops do a comprehensive fitting on a trainer, and I'd be happy to buy from either shop. One charges extra for the fitting but is much closer to home, and the other is an independent shop about 16 miles from home and does not charge extra for the fitting. I like both shops very much.

I felt comfortable on the 56cm Roubaix and I thought the only decision left was which one. However, the fitter at the last shop strongly feels that a 56 Ruby (basically, WSD 54 Roubaix) would be best for me after taking a measurement of my shoulder width and listening to my need for wrist comfort.

We then came home and did a little more research after dinner. Another contender that I forgot to ask about at the big-chain store is the Cannondale Synapse Feminine 5 (the only Feminine with a triple) which has a carbon frame geometry very close to the Ruby 56. I will call them tomorrow to ask for their price on the Synapse.

I believe I'm down two 2 choices now: The Ruby Comp Triple, or the Synapse Feminine 5.

Are there any other bikes in this class with a similar comfort geometry that I should consider? I am very close to making my decision and I want to consider all my options.

I have a lot to sleep on tonight.................

Also re-confirmed that I don't like 175mm crank arms, which I already knew.


Tom, exactly how did you confirm that? How would I know if I need a larger or smaller crank size unless the difference is obvious?

Yen, have you looked at Georgena Terry bikes? She pretty much started the "special for us women" thing, before Trek, Spec, Giant, and the rest jumped on. They have an active line-up of road bikes. They sell from their website and from stores around the country. Worth looking into! My wife loves Terry's clothing, and if their attention to detail in cycling shorts for women is any indication, the bikes should be very good, too.

They don't list your bullhorn option, but if you happen to have a Terry dealer in your area, you can work it out, or (like Mrs. Road Fan does), just get your nice buddy at home to help you out.

Road Fan

No, I have not considered Terry, but thank you for mentioning it. I haven't tried the clothing either, so thanks for the tip on that too. :) I'll add Terry to the list.

Oh, about the bullhorns.... every shop (with one exception) acted like swaping the drop bars for bullhorns is a no-brainer. The one exception was totally puzzled at the idea of putting the shifters and brakes on the bullhorns, and another shop said my hands would be even further out. If this is true, then why would the other shops act like this is no issue at all?!???

You'll feel better after sleeping on it. Sometimes the shopping and decision-making just aren't fun! I don't know about you, but when it gets to feeling a bit overwhelming, I don't make my best decisions.