Road Cycling - USPS asked to end Postie subsidy.

US Postal Service to end subsidy?


A story in Procycling Magazine.. Some citizens tax study group says the Postal Service subsidizes the US Postal Team budget. See recent Procycling Mag. If true, the story says they subsidize US Postal to the tune of 40 miillion dollars.
How much do you value Lance Armstrong's team? Don't most foreign governments finance sports and arts to some extent. What if it meant we don't have a competitive cycling team to be present throughout the world.
No Lance.? Is that ok? I am sure US Posties get lots of financial support from corporations by the looks of all the ad logo's on their jerseys. How much do you value subsidies for national sport. Does the US National Olympic team get any governmental support.
I for one believe in some governmental support for sport and arts... There is no culture without some subsidy.
By the way, the article went on to say how many other sport activities were subsidized by the US Postal Service.
Maybe their stamp they put out honoring Lance and other posties pays for some of the 40 million expenditure?
So if The U.S. Postal cycling team gets hit, don't forget , a subsidy from the same sources goes to professional football teams.!

Maybe their stamp they put out honoring Lance and other posties pays for some of the 40 million expenditure?

Ummm.. what stamp would that be? I think putting out a stamp honouring Lance and the team would be in violation of the stamp selection criteria.


The U.S. Postal Service and the members of the Citizens' Stamp Advisory Committee (CSAC) have set certain basic criteria used in determining the eligibility of subjects for commemoration on U.S. stamps and stationery. These criteria first were formulated about the time of Postal Recorganization in the early 1970s, and have been refined and expanded grdually since then.

Following are the twelve major areas now guiding subject selection:

1. It is a general policy that U.S. postage stamps and stationary primarily will feature American or American-related subjects.

2. No living person shall be honored by portrayal on U.S. postage.

3. Commemorative stamps or postal stationery items honoring individuals usually will be issued on, or in conjunction with significant anniversaries of their birth, but no postal item will be issued sooner than ten years after the individual's death. The only exception to the ten-year rule is the issuance of stamps honoring deceased U.S. presidents. They may be honored with a memorial stamp on the first birth anniversary following death.

4. Events of historical significance shall be considered for commemoration only on anniversaries in multiples of 50 years.

5. Only events and themes of widespread national appeal and significance will be considered for commemoration. Events of themes of local or regional significance may be recognized by a philatelic or special postal cancellation, which may be arranged through the local postmaster.

6. Stamps or stationery items shall not be issued to honor fraternal, political, sectarian, or service/charitable organizations that exist primarily to solicit and/or distribute funds. Nor shall stamps be issued to honor commercial enterprises or products.

7. Stamps or stationery items shall not be issued to honor cities, towns, municipalities, counties, primary or secondary schools, hospitals, libraries, or similar institutions. Due to the limitations placed on annual postal programs and the vast number of such locales, organizations and institutions in existence, it would be difficult to single out any one for commemoration.

8. Requests for observance of statehood anniversaries will be considered for commemorative postage stamps only at intervals of 50 years from the date of the state's first entry into the Union. Requests for observance of other state-related or regional anniversaries will be considered only as subjects for postal stationery, and again only at intervals of 50 years from the date of the event.

9. Stamps or stationery items shall not be issued to honor religious institutions or individuals whose principal achievements are associated with religious undertakings or beliefs.

10. Stamps or postal stationery items with added values, referred to as "semi-postals," shall not be issued. Due to the vast number of worthy fund-raising organizations in existence, it would be difficult to single out specific ones to receive such revenue. There also is a strong U.S. tradition of private fund-raising for charities, and the administrative costs involved in accounting for sales would tend to negate the revenues derived.

11. Requests for commemoration of significant anniversaries of universities and other institutions of higher education shall be considered only in regard to Historic Preservation Series postal cards featuring an appropriate building on the campus.

12. No stamp shall be considered for issuance if one treating the same subject has been issued in the past ten years. The only exceptions to this rule will be those stamps issued in recognition of traditional themes such as Christmas, U.S. Flag, Express Mail, Love, etc.

Khuron.. Think my memory is correct. You are right. The stamp did not honor LA... Seems there was a stamp printed last summer 2002- It featured the whole Postie team.. It came about about the same time as the 2002 TDF.

Honestly, the USPS sponsorship makes no since. It's almost the same as the US government forming a team to race in the classics.

Did we not wonder why it is the USPS team. Seems appropriate. What is the USPS logo. Come rain, fire or high water- the mail will be delivered. Something like that.
In some large cities the mail is delivered by bike. What is the difference if government supports sport,arts through the government or an agency of the government. Effect is all the same..
Do we not favor supporting, to some extent the US Olympic team.. I think we do, probably not enough. I see no difference between support of a National Olympic team as opposed to the US Posties cycling team. Guess, one difference is they are pros. Do we not want a US National Olympic team..

That Aegis is a work of art. Beautiful. Great componetry.

Technicaly speaking the USPS is not a government agency, it is government supported though. So that is a gray area, where you could say the government is supporting the USPS. So the USPS spent 40 million on the cycling team, how much did they spend on other advertising? Before any decision is made I think all the facts should be shown, basicaly a complete financial report on the USPS. See what is costing money and how much does the USPS bring in as a advertisement?

Actually the US Postal Service is a government agency, but it is self-supported and is not subsidized with tax dollars.

USPS picked up sponsorship of the bicycle team in order to promote their services in a European market. In other words, it's advertising.

I think the stamp in question was the bicycling stamp issued in about 1997 to celebrate the Postal Service's sponsorship of the team. It pictured a generic cyclist.

I think the USPS is getting good value at the moment from the team.

i've lived in three major cities and a few small towns and i don't think i've ever seen the mail being delivered by bike...

i have, however, seen many, many bicycle couriers...but they're not associated with USPS in any way.

at any rate, if the USPS stopped sponsoring the team, i don't think any of those guys would have trouble finding other sponsors. it's not like cycling gets much coverage in the US anyway...

oh yeah, and what value is the USPS getting out of the team anyway? it's not like they need the advertising or anything...they deliver the MAIL. there really isn't much choice in the matter for consumers/citizens if they want to send a simple letter...

trek and their other sponsors, on the other hand, are getting pretty good value out of them.

Khuron.. Think my memory is correct. You are right. The stamp did not honor LA... Seems there was a stamp printed last summer 2002- It featured the whole Postie team.. It came about about the same time as the 2002 TDF.

Arghh! The bastids at my post office looked at me like I had five heads last year when I went in there asking if they had any cycling-related stamps. All they had were silly baseball stamps. :mad:

Do you know if they're reprinting the stamps?

P.S. Thanks for the compliment on the Aegis.

I wonder if someone like Subaru would take up the slack if USPS pulled sponsorship. It looks like they're making good use of Lance's achievements in their advertisements. Hell, I think their commercials sell the LA, the team and Treks better than they sell the cars. :D

Arghh! The bastids at my post office looked at me like I had five heads last year when I went in there asking if they had any cycling-related stamps. All they had were silly baseball stamps. :mad:

Do you know if they're reprinting the stamps?


Someone would surely pick up the franchise if USPS backed out. Subaru would be a good possibility.

I doubt that they will reprint the stamp. I have a framed first day of issue cover above my desk at work. I'll check the details next time I'm in the office.

I believe that there is a $1.00 stamp currently being printed that features an image of a bicycle.

at any rate, if the USPS stopped sponsoring the team, i don't think any of those guys would have trouble finding other sponsors. it's not like cycling gets much coverage in the US anyway...

oh yeah, and what value is the USPS getting out of the team anyway? it's not like they need the advertising or anything...they deliver the MAIL. there really isn't much choice in the matter for consumers/citizens if they want to send a simple letter...


The point of the team sponsorship was to advertise in Europe. I think USPS offers some services overseas.

Also, though the USPS has a virtual monopoly on letter delivery, parcel delivery is another matter. USPS competes directly with companies like UPS and FedEx.

NO USPS does not offer services in other countries they hand over there parcels to the local postal services. They do compete with UPS and all those folks for parcel delivery However they have a huge competitor for the letter service that would be email and that has cut into their money intake in a huge way. Are you sure that it cost $40 million to support the team or that it is our $40 million in tax dollares that helps support the USPS. I really honestly do not think that the USPS should be in the sponsorship business if we keep having to underwrite them. No stamp is going to cover the cost of any sponsorship and I am more than sure that someone will step up to the plate and continue sponsoring the team. I think the US government does not sponsor the Olympic teams that is private donations and comercial sponsorship

US Postal Service to end subsidy?


A story in Procycling Magazine.. Some citizens tax study group says the Postal Service subsidizes the US Postal Team budget. See recent Procycling Mag. If true, the story says they subsidize US Postal to the tune of 40 miillion dollars.


These quacks come out every year. First of all they lie about the amount of money. USPS has NEVER stated how much it spends on the posties so how could these crazys know it's 40 million. These are probably the same Fat so and so's that honk impatiently and hate cyclists in general.
I also believe that USPS has multi-year contracts. Meaning they can't "pull out".
I have seen reports by people involved in pro cycling that they BELIEVE USPS is spending about 40 million over a 6 year contract. Now what percentage of USPS's total budget is 40 million over 6 years? Probably about .002%!!!

End of rant........I feel better now. :D

Fuel for the fire:

http://www.usps.com/news/fyi/latimes_response.htm

http://www.usps.com/news/fyi/wsj_response.htm

and

http://usgovinfo.about.com/blpostalservice.htm

Support of the USPS Cycling Team is a small part of the USPS budget. I am under the impression that USPS wanted to increase public awareness in Europe, and so undertook sponsorship of the team. I don't have documentation for that, however, and may be wrong.

Compared to the taxpayer support of things like Baseball,football stadiums for private clubs( as costly as that is) ; I think support for an Olympic team or National cycling team is a good thing.
Would you be as interested in European professional cycling if all American cyclists raced for European teams.
As to support from Trek, Subaru,etc.. Saturn just dropped its support of the Saturn team. I think most governments of the world support their major sports teams..
If local governments make contributions to things like Little League, I do not see the difference to a Nation supporting The U.S Postal team...
And I do fear, that the support needed to keep the Posties going, without USPS support they would be severely hurt.
And yes, I do wonder about the accuracy of the stated forty million dollars.
And besides without so called USPS subsidies, what would we call the Posties.. I like the name- Posties.

I think it would be great to see some newspaper sponsored teams. Afterall, they're the ones who are famous for using bicycles to deliver their products. :D

As to support from Trek, Subaru,etc.. Saturn just dropped its support of the Saturn team.

i can't say much about subaru or saturn, but trek happens to be a bicycle manufacturer, it would probably be in their best interest to continue sponsoring a bicycle racing team...


If local governments make contributions to things like Little League, I do not see the difference to a Nation supporting The U.S Postal team...

if the US government started supporting one cycling team, they'd have to support ALL the pro cycling teams in the US...on top of that, there would be outcry from other sports sanctioning bodies of more mainstream sports for government support as well...


And yes, I do wonder about the accuracy of the stated forty million dollars.

well...take into account all the people that need to be employed by a cycling team to keep it going:

mechanics (lance has his own personal mechanic), team managers, coaches, soinjiers (or however it's spelled), plus the athletes make some money off of it, you better believe it.

in addition to all the people there are equipment costs...lance alone has like, five bikes, and i'm sure everyone else on the team does too, in addition to that, spare bikes in case of accidents...so we're looking at probably 10 bikes per person on the team, maybe more...a different set of wheels for each bike, spare wheels...SO MANY spare wheels...tires, spare everything...(granted, this is where sponsorship deals come into play, but it's got to cost USPS something for all the equipment...

plus all the travel costs for everyone on the team to and from all the races, all the race vehicles (support cars, support motorcycles, equipment trucks, trailers, whathaveyou...) and you can bet that they don't ship their vehicles overseas, so they probably rent vans and cars and trailers and stuff...and with a team as large as USPS, that adds up...$40mil might be on the high side, but it can't be too much less...


And besides without so called USPS subsidies, what would we call the Posties.. I like the name- Posties.

i for one, really dislike the name "posties." it reminds me of "pasties," which reminds me of old ladies in their underwear for some reason, which is not a good thing to think about...

And besides without so called USPS subsidies, what would we call the Posties.. I like the name- Posties.

I agree. The USPS sponsorship and the unofficial Posties/Postals name lends quite a bit of character to the team much like team names in other US sports. If anything that attribute adds just one more thing the average US citizen can identify with.

i for one, really dislike the name "posties." it reminds me of "pasties," which reminds me of old ladies in their underwear for some reason, which is not a good thing to think about...

I thought pasties were those things that burlesque dancers wore over their nipples. :D That's not to say that conjured up image would be any better. ... Or would it? :D

What the hay... we just need a national team, and whoever can come up to the plate and provide it, all the better for them.

I'm sure out of all the money USPS gets every year, the amount dedicated to the Posties is probably a drop in the bucket. You could do worse things with the money, like buy $25 hammers or $100 toliet seats at the White House... ;)

Koffee

P.S. If people are so concerned, I can drop Tampax a line and see if they're willing to take on Lance and the team. Would that work for all the complainers? ;)

you know, i hear they replace those toilet seats after every use...

I think it's a great idea that the bicycle makers be the sponsers. You could have different teams, Trek, LeMond, Huffy :D

$40 million???? Can anyone support this figure. I say not even close to that. Even without the sponsorship money from the USPS the team easily turns a profit. Salaries for the entire team including mechanics, trainers, fitness personel, etc cannot be more than a million dollars, with the exception of Lance of course. All of the bikes are free as well as helmets clothing and anything else with a logo plastered on the bike or clothing. 10 riders, 5 bikes each at $4000 is $200,000 (free from Trek) plus sponsorship cash means the team is in the black on equiptment.......add Suby, the drug company, Giro....

Hell, you can finance an entire NASCAR team for one year for less than $10 million.

If USPS is supplying the team with $40 million the guy who owns the team must be rollin' in mad cash.

EDIT: I shouldnt post so late....if it is $40 million is probably over the length of the contract...not one season...

Actually the US Postal Service is a government agency, but it is self-supported and is not subsidized with tax dollars.

So what's the problem? If it's not costing tax payers anything, what grounds do they have for complaint. Heck, $40 million is peanuts compared to the amount of money the Australian government puts into subsidising sports people out here.

I think it's a great idea that the bicycle makers be the sponsers. You could have different teams, Trek, LeMond, Huffy :D

... Bianchi... :D

Seriously though. Bicycle makers have sponsored teams in the past. It's more prevalent in the MTB world though.

Schwinn, Specialized, GT, Yeti, Miyata... were some of the winningest teams.

I hail from Michigan.. Maybe Koffee has been to the UP of Michigan . Pasty there is pronounced with a loud A sound. not auh. There Pasty is a meat sandwich which originates from Wales. They are great. Living out in California now, I do miss the Pasty. Trade a burrito for one anyday.
Just some trivia here. Guess the point is, I agree with Khruon.. Posties.. TO me, I tend to somehow associate that word with the Pony Express carriers, who crossed from Kansas City to San Francisco, just before the completion of the trans-continental railroad. I like that association. Hope the rest of the world does. Real Americana... That is part of the reason, I was interested in crossing the Nevada desert( US 50) last year in the OATBRAN tour. Thats where those early 'Posties' traversed.
I think if the Posties got solely money from Bicycle manufactures, as I am sure they get quiet a lot, already; then their budget would be questionable.. I do not think US bicycle manufacturing is all that profitable.
As to the idea of a team named Tampons.? Well, might come in handy, absorbing blood and other liquids, when needed.Might be a funny looking symbol. Can't get too graphic on the jersey. Hate to think what epithets, being associated with a 'tampon,' might ensue.

I hail from Michigan.. Maybe Koffee has been to the UP of Michigan . Pasty there is pronounced with a loud A sound. not auh. There Pasty is a meat sandwich which originates from Wales. They are great. Living out in California now, I do miss the Pasty. Trade a burrito for one anyday.

Same here. I lived for a few years in A^2 and often patroned this one shop in Saline, MI that sold very wonderful pasty. I also have been to the UP and had pastys there. I really do miss them too. Luckily, I end up visiting MI quite often as the company I work for has an office there and we're primarily split between Mountain View, CA and Ann Arbor, MI. My wife is also a Michigander and has family in the SE MI area.

KHuron.. I have often wondered if your given name, here at BF had some kind of word associate with Lake Huron. Well, I was born in Ann Arbor, raised in Ypsilanti and lived for 5 years near Grand Rapids. In fact, two weeks ago, I went back for my annual family trip.. Got to visit Holland area for one day, and saw what appeared to be some great bike trails, adjacent my favorite Lake Michigan.
Anyway, I have often taken back Pasties from that same shop in Saline and tried to sell Californians' of the merits of Pasties. that Saline shop is ok, but not like the one's near L'Anse..L'Anse has the best, anywhere. Have more Rutabagas and onions. But that Saline shop is the only one I am aware of in Washtenaw County.
By the way, one Michiganian transplanted to California; like ourselves, told me that somewhere around Lake Tahoe is a real Pasty shop.
PS..Do any Michigan cycling? I would love to get my bike to either the Leelanau or Keenewaw Peninsulas.. when, I lived in Michigan; I was into running, not cycling-unfortunately.
ps- bet a ride from Ann Arbor to Dexter/Chelsea would be pretty special.

http://www.planetpeloton.com/pro/proteam1.html (This)


Taken from another article: "The USPS spent a total of $48 million on sponsorships, $40,246,107 on cycling alone, between 1996 and 2002."

I remember once hearing how much ONCE spent on their team each year and it was somewhere around 10 million.

Anyway. With our local government trying to get taxpayers to fund a new stadium that isn't even necessary, I don't feel too bad paying for the Posties.

I haven't been able to find out if I am right or not (really haven't spent to much trying to ) but I will bet you that $40 million they are talking about has nothing to do with the team but it is how much we as taxpayers givre to the Postal service every year to keep them a float.

I haven't been able to find out if I am right or not (really haven't spent to much trying to ) but I will bet you that $40 million they are talking about has nothing to do with the team but it is how much we as taxpayers givre to the Postal service every year to keep them a float.

Ngateguy:

The USPS is essentially self-supporting and has posted a profit of approximately $1 billion for the last five years.

The USPS does receive some tax support. The following paragraphs are from the about.com (http://usgovinfo.about.com/blpostalservice.htm) link I posted above.


The USPS does get some taxpayer support. Around $96 billion is budgeted annually by Congress for the "Postal Service Fund." These funds are used to compensate USPS for postage-free mailing for all legally blind persons and for mail-in election ballots sent from US citizens living overseas. A portion of the funds also pays USPS for providing address information to state and local child support enforcement agencies, and for keeping some rural posts offices in operation.

Under federal law, only the Postal Service can handle or charge postage for handling letters. Despite this virtual monopoly worth some $45 billion a year, the law does not require that the Postal Service make a profit -- only break even. Still, the US Postal Service has averaged a profit of over $1 billion per year in each of the last five years. Yet, Postal Service officials argue that they must continue to raise postage at regular intervals in order make up for the increased use of email.


Read the other links that I posted above, too. They talk about USPS's sponsorship of the pro cycling team as legitimate advertising costs.

Regular guy, I will not dispute the tax info you provided but I do know they did not operate in the black for at least the last 3 years and haver rarely operated in the black. Letters alone will not support the post office and they have a lot of competition in the package area and what a lot of people may not realize is that for the most part anything above 1 pound can be shipped cheaper through UPS or Fedex Ground. email as well as fax has cut into their letter business. Next time post a link that can authenticate its accusations with fact. Where is all the profits form the USPS being hidden at? I also do no tbelieve the USPS should be iin the business of sponsership if our tax dollars are needed to run this.

KHuron.. I have often wondered if your given name, here at BF had some kind of word associate with Lake Huron.[/b]

I'm not sure where you're seeing the "R" in my username. :D It's k-h-u-o-n. No "R" in there. ;)



By the way, one Michiganian transplanted to California; like ourselves, told me that somewhere around Lake Tahoe is a real Pasty shop.[/b]

Hmmm... you always hear about those little gems of places you once took for granted. I'm originally from the Chicago area. And I also lived in the Bay Area for a little bit. It was hard finding places that offerred some of my favourite midwestern cuisine. I kept hearing of these secret places that served this and that "just like back home" but I never was able to get around to trying them out. Case in point is a pizza place called Zachary's in Berkeley that is supposed to serve good Chicago style stuffed spinache pizza. Luckily, up here in Seattle, I have found Delfinos which is owned and operated by an ex-Chicago pizzashop owner and is pretty close to my favourite Chicago pizza place... Giordanos. I have yet to find a pasty shop though. :(



PS..Do any Michigan cycling? I would love to get my bike to either the Leelanau or Keenewaw Peninsulas.. when, I lived in Michigan; I was into running, not cycling-unfortunately.[/b]

I have always wanted to cross the Mackinac Bridge for that ride (I forget the name). I keep contemplating taking my bike with me on some of my business trips but I'm scared because I've seen the results of bad baggage handling. What I need is a steel frame travel bike. I end up popping down the west coast to the Bay Area on average once a week for business. That's my commute. And everytime I'm down there, I wish I had my bike. Because of time constraints and shortness of trip, I hop the flight with just carry-on so checking a bike would seriously delay me or force me to arrive at the airport arrive extra early. I catch an 0700 flight as it is and arrive at the airport an hour early nowadays which means getting up at 0500. I need to scrape up some funds to buy another bike that I can just keep in my California office.



ps- bet a ride from Ann Arbor to Dexter/Chelsea would be pretty special.

I used to ride the "scenic route" to Dexter and Chelsea. You know what I'm talking about. It was great to ride during the weekends, but during the weekdays you had idiot drivers taking those blind curves way too fast. Ann Arbor does offer some pretty good riding spots and riding during the early fall was wonderful with all the leaves changing colour. I would love right now to be spending my Sunday morning riding out to the Dexter Cider Mill for some fresh apple cider and cinnamon doughnuts. It's hard to believe that Washington has no cider mills! :(

It's hard to believe that Washington has no cider mills! :(

Oh I know we got 'em I will find one then plan a ride around it :)

Oh I know we got 'em I will find one then plan a ride around it :)

Oh cool! It was an unintended challenge but I'm happy you've picked up the gauntlet. :D I was told that there used to be cider mills all over here but that some kid died from drinking unpastuerised cider (not supposed to give unpastuerised cider to an infant) and they all shut down for fear of lawsuits. However, if you can find one, I'll be most happy. Better do it quick. It's starting to get cold, wet and windy. I woke up to several trees in the greenbelt behind my house snapping from the high winds. Luckily they fell the other way.

Giordanos. I have yet to find a pasty shop though. :(


I have always wanted to cross the Mackinac Bridge for that ride (I forget the name).



MmmmmmmMMmmmmmm...Giordano's pizza.

You can mail order pasties from Pasty Central (http://www.pasty.com). They aren't the best pasties I've ever had, but they are authentic. In fact, they are made by old Yoopers.

The ride is the DALMAC. Great ride. Crossing the bridge is probably the least of its pleasures. That said, crossing the Big Mac is the only thing I've ever done on a bike that impressed my mom.

There is a run/walk across Mackinac Bridge on labor Day. I suspect Bikes are allowed on that same day. As we all know, bikes must cross the bridge via bus, any other day. I think I recall there is a bike ride around Mackinac Island on that same day.
Man, the winds atop the Mackinac Bridge can be awesome. I recall a Hyundai was swept over the bridge on a Fall/winter day about ten years ago. Wonder how bikes would fare?
If you ever find that Pasty shop about the Lake Tahoe area, please remember to let us know.

Man, the winds atop the Mackinac Bridge can be awesome. I recall a Hyundai was swept over the bridge on a Fall/winter day about ten years ago.

I heard it was a Yugo. Same difference I guess. Didn't someone also suspect it was a suicide?

There is a run/walk across Mackinac Bridge on labor Day. I suspect Bikes are allowed on that same day. As we all know, bikes must cross the bridge via bus, any other day. I think I recall there is a bike ride around Mackinac Island on that same day.
Man, the winds atop the Mackinac Bridge can be awesome. I recall a Hyundai was swept over the bridge on a Fall/winter day about ten years ago. Wonder how bikes would fare?
If you ever find that Pasty shop about the Lake Tahoe area, please remember to let us know.

Bikes go over the day before. One lane is closed for them. They go over in three tightly controlled crossings.

If it's too windy, the bridge authority will not allow the bikes to cross.

Khuon.. I know it is starcy stuff, but I miss all the German, Polish, Hungarian food of the midwest. Even Italian is somewhat less common out here. I have had some luck in finding a couple Hungarian restaurants in the Van Nuys section of LA.. South of LA, I know of none.. Our loss.
For work, this year I brought back some smoked Great Lakes White fish, instead of Pasties. That was a treat. I work with lots of fishermen.. Zimmerman's Deli in Ann Arbor has great White Fish.
Guess, what I mean't to indicate about 'Khuon'.. Some kind of Word association test. That is what comes to mind. While back in Michigan last week, I did see a couple of cyclists heading west of Saline, towards Manchester. Itr is just awful how cheated you feel when you see someone heading out on a beautiful ride, on a beautiful day and your bike is no where to be found.. Wish I could have joined them.. The rest of my stay it rained almost every day. Saw no cyclists those days.

For work, this year I brought back some smoked Great Lakes White fish, instead of Pasties. That was a treat. I work with lots of fishermen.. Zimmerman's Deli in Ann Arbor has great White Fish.

You mean Zingerman's? I never bought fish there but I of course loved their sandwiches. I always bring back some from my trips to my A^2 offices. Even before the airlines discontinued meal services, I used to buy travelling food from Zingerman's for the flight. Thus I board the plane with about half-a-dozen very yummy smelling sandwiches... one for the road and the rest for my wife and I to eat at home. You should see the looks of my fellow passengers.


Guess, what I mean't to indicate about 'Khuon'.. Some kind of Word association test. That is what comes to mind. While back in Michigan last week, I did see a couple of cyclists heading west of Saline, towards Manchester. Itr is just awful how cheated you feel when you see someone heading out on a beautiful ride, on a beautiful day and your bike is no where to be found.. Wish I could have joined them.. The rest of my stay it rained almost every day. Saw no cyclists those days.

Yes, I know that feeling. I've said so in previous posts too. Everytime I'm on a business trip and I see people out on bikes, I will get that longing look in my eyes. It's not like when I'm in my car in my home town. Then I can at least go home and hop on my bike. Instead, all I have to look forwards to is a lonely hotel room. Well... at least I can fire up the laptop and log into BikeForums.

NO USPS does not offer services in other countries they hand over there parcels to the local postal services. They do compete with UPS and all those folks for parcel delivery However they have a huge competitor for the letter service that would be email and that has cut into their money intake in a huge way. Are you sure that it cost $40 million to support the team or that it is our $40 million in tax dollares that helps support the USPS. I really honestly do not think that the USPS should be in the sponsorship business if we keep having to underwrite them. No stamp is going to cover the cost of any sponsorship and I am more than sure that someone will step up to the plate and continue sponsoring the team. I think the US government does not sponsor the Olympic teams that is private donations and comercial sponsorship


It's about $5 mill per season for USPS. Might be 40 mill since 1996 when they started all of this. Remember, Lance was with Cofidis when USPS started into cycling. He got to USPS when the Cofidis guys cut Lance loose and also cut his benefits when he was diagnosed. One of a series of great decisions by the leaders at Cofidis cycling.

If USPS takes out TV ads (which they do), is that different than sponsorship? And, by the way, the USPS does not "hand over" packages overseas. They pay for that service. Unless (in Belgium for example where I lived and the gov't handles mail delivery) these other services are doing it for us for free.

Olympians are pros, too. Remember Michael Jordan in the Olympics??? NHL players in the Olympics. Olympic committees get their money from the central Olympic committee, and guess where that money comes from? Corporate sponsorships, donations, etc.

BTW...the overnight delivery offered by USPS is flown by Fed Ex. It was cheaper that way.

BTW...the overnight delivery offered by USPS is flown by Fed Ex. It was cheaper that way.

All the carriers handle the mail airlines too. However it is just on their planes they do not pick it up, process it nor deliver it. and not all of the express mail is handle by fedex. In order to be a carrier the FAA requires you to carry mail.
When I was doing same day air freight we could not get anything out of Houston on a plane before 10Am because of the huge mail facility there.

On subject of Midwest ethnic foods I would love to have a good pirogi again :( the local Catholic Church in our neighborhood used to sell home made ones every friday every once in a while mom wold buy soem for saturday dinner yum!

You can see the 2002 financials here - http://www.usps.com/history/anrpt02/financial.htm

USPS has lost money the last few years, nothing spectacular but still not in the black. 2002 they lost $676 Million (remember though that the USPS takes in revenues of over $60 Billion).

As to sponsorship, look at it in terms of advertising. Sure USPS has spent $40-50M on the bike team, but how many times have we seen Lance wearing a USPS jersey? Read the letters from the USPS about it, they have more than recouped their money, everytime Lance makes the cover of a magazine wearing something that says USPS, or gets a picture in a newspaper, does a Suburu or Comcast or Coke comercial, that is all free advertising for USPS.

Andrew

Losing money is still losing money it doesn't mater what your revenue is so if they have lost money they have not recouped any of their sponsorship money. We as taxpayers have to make up for the loss.

No we don't necessarily just make up the difference. The USPS has been in the black before, by many billions of dollars. That means cash in the bank, that means they don't need "Extra" money to make up for things.

The US G'vt has made a $3.034 Billion contribution for the past 5 (or more) years regardless if they were profitable or not.

Without advertising, they concievably will lose more money.

Andrew

Ajay there is no money in the bank for USPS they have only been in the black a small handful of times in their history Advertising is good, sponsorship should be left to the businesses in this country. I am sort of suprised that a fiscal conservitive is defending what could be a waste of tax dollars.

There's no money in the bank for the USPS? Funny, their balance sheet shows some $2 Billion in the bank and another $50+ Billion in other assets.

In either case, the USPS needs to advertise to be competitive in the market place, otherwise they will lose more money which will require the US taxpayers to pay more money in taxes (or get a rate hike on stamps). Sponsoring USPS bicycling for $40M over the course of 6 years is a good deal for them considering they have more than doubled that investment in exposure over that period of time. In that same period (roughly) of time the USPS's advertising expenditures was $200+ Million. I'd say sponsoring the cycling team has been a good deal for them considering the money spent vs "money" gained.

And again, the US Government has yet to bail out the postal service, they pay a fee to the postal service every year (which is obviously tax payer money), that fee has stayed the same in the past 5 years (which is as far as the balance sheets go) and goes to who knows what (the USPS as mentioned provides a lot of free services to the public, a good deal of that "tax payer" money is obviously ear marked for that).

Andrew