Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - BROOKS Website

As I've seen many of you are interested in Brooks Saddles, I start a new thread to discuss the content of our website. We are planning to restyle it, so I'd like to get suggestions from you on the things you like and those you don't like of the current pages.
We'd like the website to be more interactive, what do you think of sections like the "People and Their Stories"? Should we have a section for videos from "Brooks Cyclists"? What about a specific section on signle speed and fixed gear?

Andrea

Marketing Manager
BROOKS ENGLAND LDT.
www.brooksengland.com

"It is not the name of Brooks which makes the saddle good,
but the saddle and its excellence which makes the name supreme."
(J.B. Brooks, 1912)

no more all-flash, please. awesome splash page, though. keep that.
and it would be cool to have the bike on the homepage not be a pink conversion.

The picture on the home page changes once a month and we choose pictures which cyclists post on the "People and Their Stories" section of our website. If you have a good picture please post it!
Andrea

pwned.

Should I Make a Flash Site? Flash Website Flowchart.

http://www.thegooglecache.com/flash-website-flowchart.jpg

:D Seriously though. Flash is horrible. I would much rather read bare bones, Sheldonesque html than wait for a million stupid sounds and animations to play so i can look at the content.

Any of you ever check out Condor Cycles' website? They build one of the most interesting lines of bikes that I've ever come across---commuter/ audax/winter bikes that can take racks and 28s with fenders, plus lots of them have fun, fast, race-like geometry---but the site is an almost unclickable flash butchery.

I love Brooks saddles, even the old vinyl mattress saddle that came with my Raleigh. I do not like Flash. I prefer the older Brooks website without Flash to the new one. Velo-orange.com, Rivbikes.com, or yes, Sheldon brown's webpages are much nicer on the eyes than Flash.

I love Brooks saddles, even the old vinyl mattress saddle that came with my Raleigh. I do not like Flash. I prefer the older Brooks website without Flash to the new one. Velo-orange.com, Rivbikes.com, or yes, Sheldon brown's webpages are much nicer on the eyes than Flash.

The one thing I dislike about rivbikes is that awful pop-up product info box, where the main screen goes into shadow. Basically, anything like that where you have to watch a pointless animation load for five seconds (and where a non-standard browser like opera, firefox or Safari may hang up or crash) makes it frustrating and difficult to gather information from a website.

Yeah, VO have their site just about nailed; it works just about as quickly and simply as Harris' and it looks a little slicker.

I agree with you on the rivbikes pop-up window; I'd like it even better if I could Look at the product AND read about it at the same time.

I love the brooks website.

and it would be cool to have the bike on the homepage not be a pink conversion.

That bike is owned by a BikeForums member.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=390195

Just sayin'....:) .

East Hill

funny, this came up recently on DCfixed

"So, Brooks totally stole that picture from my friend Luke's (HelluvaStella) flickr page. I'm not sure if it is still up, but that is kind of weak for the company to just swipe a picture.

Still pretty cool that his bike was up on their site though."

I ride Brooks.

I ride Brooks.

http://www.sp2.at/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/celebrate.jpg

funny, this came up recently on DCfixed

"So, Brooks totally stole that picture from my friend Luke's (HelluvaStella) flickr page. I'm not sure if it is still up, but that is kind of weak for the company to just swipe a picture.

Still pretty cool that his bike was up on their site though."

They didn't steal the picture! Luke/ Helluva sent the pic to them in response to a call for pics to use on the front page. Then he actually *forgot* about it, later noticed the pic was up, and proceeded to sorta-kinda accuse brooks of taking the picture without permission on an international cycling message board. Unbelievable eh? I hope he's sorry. :D :P

Oh! Reedreeder! I see what you did there.

They didn't steal the picture! Luke/ Helluva sent the pic to them in response to a call for pics to use on the front page. Then he actually *forgot* about it, later noticed the pic was up, and proceeded to sorta-kinda accuse brooks of taking the picture without permission on an international cycling message board. Unbelievable eh? I hope he's sorry. :D :P

Oh! Reedreeder! I see what you did there.

The nice thing is, all that got straightened out, and now a representative for Brooks is a member, and he is asking how people feel about the Brooks website. Andrea is a great guy! Give him some suggestions :D .

A nice ending to the story :) .

East Hill

Brooks devotee here as well.

Also a despiser of all things Flash, particularly all-Flash sites. Frankly, I've never bothered to look at your web site because of this. Obviously I can't speak for all SS / FG riders, but we're a philosophically simple lot: one gear is all you need, right? Apply that philosophy to a web site and the unnecessarily complicated fluff that is Flash will turn us off and tune us out. Other considerations:

No sounds, or make it a positive action to turn sounds on. Why? Because often the computer makes some sort of sound that I choose while I'm perusing the 'Net. Your sounds interfere with my sounds and my sounds are more important to me.

If Flash really pulls your trigger and you must keep it, offer a no-Flash version for us old-school, quasi-Luddites who use the Internet as an informational resource rather than a scattered mess of moving pictures that contribute zero content to what we're really after.

Furthermore, with Flash I'm stuck with your font-size and font-face choices. I don't pop into your office and redecorate the place to suit my tastes, do I? Don't impose your aesthetics on my browser; I'm obsessively possessive of my own.

If your site has pop-ups, I will never see them. Why? Because it takes a positive action on my part to allow them. I already made a positive action to get to your site: don't make me do more.

I don't mean to sound like a cranky, entitlement-oriented American: these are truly philosophical points for me. Your "Catalog and Shop" page is my favorite page, except for the flipping pictures, because it loads fast and there's a smarter use of screen real estate than on the Flash pages, and I can make the font bigger (which I did) and so forth. Moreover, the content is front and center (well, after I scroll down a bit).

My perspective on design is that content is king; presentation stands in its service. I feel that you've knighted presentation and it is now exerting undue influence on your content kingdom. Reclaim your content.

I refuse to use Flash sites for commerce or information gathering. In that context, it makes things annoyingly hard to use, without adding much value.

Flash is great for cutting-edge interactive experiences, but do you really need all of that to look at a bike saddle?

I'm (among other things) a web developer, and I work with AJAX, Flex, Flash, Silverlight, etc. - all the cutting-edge tech. I've made many clients remove unnecessary all-Flash sites. Their traffic goes up, their users are happier, and they get a far better ROI.

IT would be nice if I could actually see the catalog on the site...

No more Flash, please.

i would highly suggest more flash

and lots of games too

i would highly suggest more flash

and lots of games too

Like a break in your brooks game where you sit on your keyboard for an extended period!

In the leather care section I'd like to see language buttons so I only need to download and print out the one language I need. Rather then waste several sheets of paper.

How about a better view of the spoke wrench in the wheel kit?

Two of the tool bags look a bit wide for hanging off of the saddle as least given my heavy thighs. Can they be hung on the rear rack. So very few of the club riders in my area use saddle bags like yours that it might help to have a picture of one ON a saddle.

http://www.brooksengland.com/shop/resampleimg.ashx?imgurl=~/images/shop/shop_etc/ETC_/L_Eroica_Jersey/Sizes/BROOKS_L_Eroica_Jersey.jpg&Height=400&format=jpeg&bkColor=FFFFFF

Why was I not informed that this exists? Why am I not wearing this right now? Why am I not wearing this all the time?

In serious, flash--, also I have trouble navigating. Dropdown menu navigation that works on change can be a real pain in the caboose it makes it hard for all of the choices to be seen straight out.

As far as content goes, I like the stories section. Also the factory tour section was a real treat.

1) get rid of the noisy flash intro. it's unnecessarily loud/annoying.
2) design a product that isn't tacky or made of dead animal skin.

honestly, your site reminds me of 2001.
a good start might be to hire a web designer who's familiar with the concept of usability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_usability) (or at least taken a design theory class or two... ugh).
leave the tacky flash for sites about kid's cereal and super hero movies.
in other words, Keep It Simple, Stupid.

*ed: whoever designed your shopping page should replace the doofus that does the rest of the site.
this (http://www.brooksengland.com/shop/shopProductDetail.aspx?id=uid-20070521.193455.343.7500-24-00145E457A63-----------------206) is the only section of the site that didn't make me think of nickelodeon.com.

As I've seen many of you are interested in Brooks Saddles, I start a new thread to discuss the content of our website. We are planning to restyle it, so I'd like to get suggestions from you on the things you like and those you don't like of the current pages.


Andrea

Marketing Manager
BROOKS ENGLAND LDT.
www.brooksengland.com

"It is not the name of Brooks which makes the saddle good,
but the saddle and its excellence which makes the name supreme."
(J.B. Brooks, 1912)




Andrea,

I love my B-17 but my guess your biggest demographic is the older crown and much of the font is just a weeeee small.

2) design a product that isn't tacky or made out of dead animal skin.


I'm pretty sure you are not the target market for leather saddles then...

seing as this isn't 1930, should anyone?

I do hope this is for market research to give to your professional designers and not a place to make a checklist of hodge-podge that you'll obey religiously and create an unusable and generic web site made by some kid who read a Flash book.

Here are some basic observations of the current site.

Lose the splash screen. It's amateurish, 1998ish and serves no purpose.
Lose the SOUND!!! Holy crap are you kidding me? I can't even turn it off... so if I'm somewhere that I can't have sound (library, work, school) I have to immediately leave the site.
Lose the flash... your site does not work on my phone.
I hate the rollover scrolling... rollover only things like that (photo galleries, scrolling, etc) do not make things easier, just more annoying. Clicking has a purpose... to make something happen. When something happens w/out clicking it is too surprising.
The shop shouldn't go to a separate web site...


Love the use of customer bikes on the front page.
I think the aforementioned shop website is fitting and beautiful. I think the easy solution is to make that template your whole site.

Brooks has a huge following and a sweet product. Unique in an industry of me-too's and Taiwanese bikes. Your site should reflect this. It's like a marketer came in and saw flash, and said, OOH YES! US TOO!! - This is not Brooks.

I think most of the problems are associated with basing the site around Flash. Run clean and graceful html/css and let your OUTSTANDING product and culture do the talking. All flash sites are for flashy things or companies who have no other way to wow the viewer. Brooks is neither of these companies.

Lean on your culture and following. I'd love to see a customer's gallery. I'd go to the site as often as it was updated to see the new additions. Right now, when I reference people to buy your product... I send them to sheldon Brown's site or wallbike.com, because the Brooks site is difficult to use.

p.s. I love your saddles. I have one and am purchasing two more very soon.

Hope the new site lives up to the product. Good Luck

No sound, please.

No flash, please.

I would not make a SSFG specific section - I don't see how that would be relevant for saddles.

seing as this isn't 1930, should anyone?

It would be a waste to throw away that natural packaging all the hamburger meat comes in...why not turn it into a saddle?

More application details and fitting examples on different bikes and riders. I switched from Brooks on my latest bike as the saddle rails are too short compared to plastic saddles and I couldn't find a seat post with enough setback.

How about a Sheldon dedicated saddle? He was a huge proponent!

I love the brooks website.

You seam to be the only one who loves the current website. Why do you like it?
Andrea

funny, this came up recently on DCfixed

"So, Brooks totally stole that picture from my friend Luke's (HelluvaStella) flickr page. I'm not sure if it is still up, but that is kind of weak for the company to just swipe a picture.

Still pretty cool that his bike was up on their site though."

The picture was not stolen. He posted it in the "People and Their Stories" section agreeing that we could use it. He also received a 50% discount coupon to buy 2 saddles as a prize!
Andrea

Andrea, you have a spelling mistake and/or grammatical error on every page. PM me if you want a list, but basically you need a proofreader to go over every page - and soon.

Should I Make a Flash Site? Flash Website Flowchart.

http://www.thegooglecache.com/flash-website-flowchart.jpg

http://tommcmahon.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/panfluteflowchart2.gif

I don't have any input on the website but I like the machine-thing that appears while the page loads.

edit: You guys should get more photos of the model from your pdf!

seing as this isn't 1930, should anyone?

Well it's a good thing plastic isn't made from petroleum. Oh wait, it is.

All throw away goods are bad goods. Cheap leather keychains, cheap leather shoes, cheap plastic shoes, plastic bottled water, etc. I think a brooks saddle falls into the "I am passing this down to my kid" category. I wear leather boots and I take them to a cobbler. They will probably last me 10 years if I get the soles replaced every so often. I see nothing wrong with that.

riding someone else's saddle is kinda grody. no one is going to ride their dad's saddle.

if you do, you're one step away from wearing his cycling bib.

bottom line, the animals-as-products industry is selfish and irresponsible. the idea of supporting it is disgusting, and i have no qualms about posting my opinion about it on a public webforum.

Yes please no flash, especially that noisy intro.

I like the sections about what goes into making a saddle (pictures from the factory,etc.)
Stories and testimonials from riders are always great.

If you want a good example of minimal flash usage, I like rivendell cycles' site. (http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/)

You can do a ton with css as opposed to flash, basic elements of the site should basically work transparently, not load with tons of sound and flashy graphics.

That's not to say I don't like the site, but I would expect a company like brooks to have a simpler site that just works, kind of like your saddles.

I LOVE my B17 by the way.

riding someone else's saddle is kinda grody. no one is going to ride their dad's saddle.

if you do, you're one step away from wearing his cycling bib.


I meant that in the it will last a very long time way. For the record, I wear my pa's jacket, and even some of his shirts from his college days. I'm a big fan of keeping things around and using them a long time.



bottom line, the animals-as-products industry is selfish and irresponsible. the idea of supporting it is disgusting, and i have no qualms about posting my opinion about it on a public webforum.

Bottom line: anything thats used for throw away and not in moderation is selfish. I will use my motorcycle jacket until the day I die, it is leather with synthetic armor. I see no reason why I should wear something else that either won't last as long or isn't the right material for the job. Needless overproduced goods that aren't used in moderation and are tossed aside is the selfish and irresponsible act, it doesn't matter if it is made from leather, plastic or friggan happy-fun-vegan-organic-soy-hemp-freerange rainbows.

why are you assuming that a non-leather saddle is going to be thrown away in a month or something?
for the record, people throw away brooks. if i know of some, then there are probably tons out there.
great that you keep things forever. however, most americans don't, which is why the animals-as-products industry is such a horrible one.

why are you assuming that a non-leather saddle is going to be thrown away in a month or something?
for the record, people throw away brooks. if i know of some, then there are probably tons out there.
great that you keep things forever. however, most americans don't, which is why the animals-as-products industry is such a horrible one.

I am not assuming a non-leather saddle is going to be tossed. For the record I use a synthetic saddle myself. Had it for 5 years on the one bike and another 10 years. If people are tossing brooks or other expensive (by expensive I mean, uses a lot of natural resources / causes pollution) items quickly then they are the problem you should be targeting not the leather industry.

My grandmother was talking about the throw away culture shift that happened to them when bleach and other house hold chemicals stopped coming in glass jars but instead plastic. She said they boycotted every company that did that until there were no more places to get glass bottles for those products anymore. I never really thought of my grandparents as people who were into that sort of thing. It got me thinking and really spun my perspective some. I now believe it's not the industries we need to change. Corporations are always going to make the product people want, if Company X stops making bad for the environment widgets, then Company Y will start up and corner the market. It is the market that needs to change.

You want to get rid of throw-away culture? Educate the people first. The industries will follow.

Someone might have mentioned it already, but I hate the spring-cutting engine and its screeches and knocks when the flash site is loading up. It always blows out my ears.

BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Fixed.

They didn't steal the picture! Luke/ Helluva sent the pic to them in response to a call for pics to use on the front page. Then he actually *forgot* about it, later noticed the pic was up, and proceeded to sorta-kinda accuse brooks of taking the picture without permission on an international cycling message board. Unbelievable eh? I hope he's sorry. :D :P

Oh! Reedreeder! I see what you did there.

Hi Mander. I'm Luke. Who the f*ck are you? I accused no one of anything. But I think now I'll accuse you of being a ******bag. Huggles

I'm Andrew. In the thread, http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=390144, you *did* say


Yes, that be the one. As to how it happened, I have no idea. It's up on Velospace, so I suppose they have a marketing intern trolling the sites in his/her spare time and found it. Very flattering! I hope they sponsor me to the tune of a pair of B66 or B73s and a set of Brick Lane roll-up panniers. *Hope hope*

This isn't the same thing as a direct accusation, so i put "sorta-kinda" up front. However the general conclusion everyone came to, right away, was that Brooks had taken the photo without asking you, either through out and out theft or through some less-than-classy loophole somewhere in velospace's terms and conditions. That was the effect your words had, regardless of whether you directly put it in. And as you have seen in this thread, the idea that brooks screwed you did get around, at least as far as dcfixed.

But, did you see the :D and the :P? I'm just baggin man. You deserve at least a little of that. Relax.

Flash is a form of art and the Brooks site is well done. I like it.
I do think it is passe unless it is making a comeback. In my industrial markets, I very successfully switched from mailers to fax to email to flash to e-news to interactive web sites and back to mailers, staying ahead of the curve so my message stays fun and fresh to the targeted recipient.

Brooks, based on this forum's feedback, go with an option so the viewer can choose the flash entertainment.

BTW
Very nice market surveying. Every one of us responders is a little bit more in favor of your product because you asked and likely value our opinions. You've a lot of fans.

http://www.scottandbiccy.com/albums/funny/InternetFight.jpg

abo8ut brooks.......
site is kinda cool.... i think everything else has pretty much been suggested
as far as saddles other colors would be hot... and ive always wanted brooks toe straps.....why no strapsZZ!! lolZ

1) get rid of the noisy flash intro. it's unnecessarily loud/annoying.
2) design a product that isn't tacky or made of dead animal skin.


We are working on a new generation of Brooks Saddles.
We will also address the "made of dead animal skin" issue.

i'd personally like to see a section on modified saddles.

i also like a little bit more detailed information about saddle care than what's available. from what's there it seems that brooks is in denial about the wide range of options available to folks who want to use something more than just proofide on their saddles. pushing proofide and only proofide might sell you a couple extra tins, but i'm not sure it's helping you sell saddles.

i'll echo the sentiments about less flash, NO sound, and add pdfs to the list of things i'd like to see gone.

We are working on a new generation of Brooks Saddles.
We will also address the "made of dead animal skin" issue.

Hey I have a small brooks product-related beef. I find the Brooks saddle cover completely useless, because it lets water soak through at about the point where water would stop beading up on a proofided brooks and begin to soak in. I need something that will actually keep the saddle dry if i leave my bike outside in the pouring rain, otherwise I might as well not have anything on there. If you guys made a cover that actually kept water out I wouldn't tell so many people to get an aardvark from VO instead. :)