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Well, to be precise, one thing that really raises my dander and one thing that makes me sad.
The thing that makes me mad are the infantile morons who think breaking glass bottles against the curb is jolly good fun. I don't know how many flats I got because of these idiots. I finally got some Bontrager Hard Cases became more vigilant. Invariably, the broken bottles are liquor or beer. I wish the cops would take the time to pick these up, fingerprint them, then fine the miscreants $1000 for the first offense and $10000 for the second.
The things that makes me sad is when I see poor little animals squashed by vehicles. This even includes the butt-ugly opposums that live around here and are very slow at crossing the road. It is easy to avoid them.
Today I saw an oppossum, a squirrel and a small, unidentifiable rodent that had recently met their demise. Like the movie "All Dogs Go To Heaven," I hope all these little creatures got there, too.
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I agree with both of TrekRider's points. The other items that bother me are road rage, bicycle-hostile traffic engineering, and motorists who take a cavalier attitude toward driving whilst distracted, drowsy, etc.
Hey Trekrider, I rather figured you are disturbed! ;)
I have noticed that in my region of the world most of these “infantile morons” are drinking Budweiser. Strange.
The sooner society realizes that Alcohol is a DRUG and those who cannot get by without it are drug addicts then perhaps we will be on our way to a better world.
Until then we will be running over beer bottles and such.
There is a small town close to where I live that must be the broken bottle capital of the world. To top it off they only clean the streets about twice a summer. :(
They probably wonder why I won't ride on the sides of the roads.......
Well, to be precise, one thing that really raises my dander and one thing that makes me sad.
The thing that makes me mad are the infantile morons who think breaking glass bottles against the curb is jolly good fun. I don't know how many flats I got because of these idiots. I finally got some Bontrager Hard Cases became more vigilant. Invariably, the broken bottles are liquor or beer. I wish the cops would take the time to pick these up, fingerprint them, then fine the miscreants $1000 for the first offense and $10000 for the second.
It annoys me too, and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one. It's about time the law levied appriopriate penalties against this sort of behaviour. Forget about the "it's only a minor crime" rubbish. Fact is, there is a law against it (in this country at least), and it's not something people do by accident. I say, lock them up and throw away the key on the third offence.
Try using kevlar belted tires.
Try using kevlar belted tires.
What do you think Bontrager Hard Cases are?
The sooner society realizes that Alcohol is a DRUG and those who cannot get by without it are drug addicts then perhaps we will be on our way to a better world.
I do not agree that alcohol in liquor and beer is a "drug." Defining what is and is not a "drug," however, becomes problematic. The simplest definition of a drug is a chemical substance taken to cure disease or improve health. The secondary definition is a narcotic. However, narcotic is defined as an addictive drug that blunts or distorts the senses and induces sleep.
Miriam-Webster on-line says, inter alia, "a substance used as a medication or in the preparation of medication; according to the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act a substance recognized in an official pharmacopoeia or formulary", but the second definition is "something and often an illegal substance that causes addiction, habituation, or a marked change in consciousness."
But is the derogatory term "drug" really meant to include those substances which have positive effects and valid, medical uses? It has been demonstrated that moderate consumption of wine - about 3 -4 glasses per week - can have a positive, healthfull effect. After working in the yard on a hot, steamy afternoon, nothing quenches my thirst like an original Coors.
Likewise, morphine has a valid, medical use. You can argue cocaine, LSD, et al, but I think you see my point.
Now, all of that was to make the following point. If you make alcohol a "drug" like aspirin and anti-histimines and define alcoholism and addiction to cocaine, heroin, pain killers, etc., as a "disease," you are providing an excuse for the addicts. If there were a social stigma to addiction, there would be less of it.
My father was an alcoholic who never admitted to his problem. When I was in the Navy, I was trained as a drug and alcohol counselor. I found that the type of addiciton my father had was a psychological dependance. In other words, his addiction was based not on physical needs, but on a psychological problem. His cure, had ever sought it, would have had to include psychiatric help.
I also had an uncle who was an alcoholic. He finally stopped drinking on is own. He went through withdrawal, but he was mentally strong enough to beat it. He would test himself every once in a while by having just one beer, just to prove to himself that he had beat it and was not a drunk.
One final thing, when we exercise, our bodies release endorphins, a natural substance said to have the same effect as some very strong narcotics. When my brother in law was forced to stop running - he ran 5 to 10 miles per day - because of inury, he became very grouchy - well, actually, downright mean and nasty. The doctor said it was withdrawal from the endorphins. So, are endorphons a "drug" and how do we treat its "abusers?"
The secondary definition is a narcotic. However, narcotic is defined as an addictive drug that blunts or distorts the senses and induces sleep.
Thanks, you just confirmed Alcohol as a drug with this one sentence.
The rest of your post sounds like the rantings of an addicted abuser trying to justify it as fine and dandy. Geez.
My father was also an alcoholic and from that very savory childhood experience there are absolutely no doubts in my mind that alcoholis addictive and damaging and IS in fact one of the most dangerous drugs on the open market.
I'm amazed at your ability to defend it so well since you claim to have had a similar past experience. So what was the violence stemming from harmless beer and wine in you childhood environment like? Obviously not much like mine.
Oh well, with folks like you around to ferverently defend it, drunks will continue to kill on the roads and other alcohol related tragedies will remain regarded a social problem and not criminal.We should legalize all substances, bar none, and have corner stop and shops selling crack cocaine, etc... also. Put it right next to the beer and wine in conveinient little six packs or cases for the hearty partier. Kegs of raw powder will soon follow. And it will be great for the economy since big business can get involved and start pumping the stuff out in massive quantities.
At least little plastic baggies will not punture tires! ;)
Let's not forget that marijuana as medicinal uses as well.... helps with Aids and Cancer Cachexia...the latter is what kills most patients undergoing chemotherapy. Alcohol was used as a lifesaving drip for ethanol poisoning until we came up with a better replacement. The pill, marinol, a oral marijuana has been prescribed by myself to those on chemo but insurance won't pay for it so these folks go out and smoke it. Thus, by Trekriders definition, both marijuana and alcohol are drugs. Gee...the medical establishment has been saying this for years about both.
Thanks, you just confirmed Alcohol as a drug with this one sentence.
Sam, you could not be more wrong in your assessment of me.
Notice that I said the definition of "drug" was problematic. This means that you can seize on one aspect of a definition and make it apply how you see fit.
In addition to being an alcoholic, my father was in the pharmaceutical business, first as a salesman for one of the largest companies in the country, then later as the owner of his own company. I grew up with doctors, nurses, other medical professionals, and others in the pharmaceutical industry as family and personal friends. I believe this, my father's and uncle's problems with alcohol, and my training as a drug and alcohol counselor gives me a unique perspective on the problems of drugs and alcohol.
The rest of your post sounds like the rantings of an addicted abuser trying to justify it as fine and dandy. Geez.
Is this because I don't agree with your assessment of alcohol as a drug? In my youth, spent in the U.S. Navy in an era where such behavior was condoned, I did have a problem with binge drinking. When it began to affect my work and when I realized it was damaging my reputation and self-esteem, I quit. Today, I might drink a six pack of beer per year, if that.
I'm amazed at your ability to defend it so well since you claim to have had a similar past experience. So what was the violence stemming from harmless beer and wine in you childhood environment like? Obviously not much like mine.
I am not defending the abuse of alcohol. I merely stated a medical fact. There have been studies that have shown that moderate - and I described this as 3 to 4 glasses of wine per WEEK - are beneficial. This is not condoning those who slug down three and four (or more) shots of whiskey in quick succession, then drink a six pack of beer (or more) each day after work.
Oh well, with folks like you around to ferverently defend it drunks will continue to kill on the roads and other alcohol related tragedies will remain regarded a social problem and not criminal.We shouls legalize all substances bar none and have corner stop and shops selling crack cocaine also.
Sam, I think you need to reassess. I never defended drunks. I merely pointed out the cause of my father's alcoholism was not alcohol itself, but a psychiatric problem that made him susceptible to abuse. Had it not been alcohol, had there been cocaine or heroin readily available, he may have been a "drug" addict. Had the companies he worked for marketed p[rescription narcotics, he may have probably become addicted to them. Such is the nature of psychiatric-induced addiction.
It just shows too much of anything , even a good thing, becomes bad. Long term heavy alcohol use does cause permanent changes in the brain confirmed by MRIs and autopsies so alcohilism can evolve from a psycological dependence to a physical dependence and disease. The same is true with nicotine. When this occurs in an individual is hard to predict, but there may be a genetic disposition...see some links http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/press/2003/pain.htm and some on the physical changes....http://sulcus.berkeley.edu/mcb/165_001/papers/manuscripts/_128.html that's why it is best to tackle alcoholism etc. using psycotherapy as Trekrider reiterated as well medical therapy since each individual is on a different place in the spectrum of their dependance (from purely psycological to purely physical or both.)
One thing you say is dead on.
Casual users who control their drinking and never consume enough to be impaired are the exception. Abusers are the group to which I refer to.
I will always see it as a dangerous drug regardless of the intellectual rationale. The theraputic advantage of a glass of wine once in a while is noted.
One drink at dinner is far different from drinking just to be drinking or "binge drinking" as you stated earlier.
Back to the topic:
There is a simple solution to the broken beer bottle problem. Plastic beer bottles. It's worked for soft drinks. It'd make it a lot easier to carry a carton home on my bike, too.
Allister has the problem solved. Good thinking.
"There is a simple solution to the broken beer bottle problem. Plastic beer bottles. It's worked for soft drinks. It'd make it a lot easier to carry a carton home on my bike, too."
Not to my microbrew you don't! I'll take mine in dark brown glass bottles, thank you, and take the bottles back when I'm done. I never drink in the car anyway, and think that those who do need to spend a little time in the clink.
Alcohol is a drug. There are those who drink moderately, and those who don't. But for a guy like me, who might drink two beers in a sitting one evening and then not have another for a weeks, or for a guy who pounds down six a night, it's still a drug. Heck, cocaine was a great drug in it's day. It restricts capillaries and numbs when applied topically, hence it's great demand as a dental drug at one time. There are plenty of examples of legitimate use for controlled substances. One thing I do agree with is the behavioral component of addiction. Take the drugs away and people who are addicted are just as likely to get into trouble with their credit card, sex, or whatever. The problem lies in their inability to use self control, IMHO.
Cure #2: Cash Deposits on all glass bottles, and not just in MI, PA, and the few other listedstates.
They sell plastic bottles of beer at the Browns' Games on Sundays to prevent players from getting hit when they play like crap.
who cares if alchohol is a drug or not? it can mess you up if you drink too much......
not everyone that drinks to passout or binge drinks is a bad person and just because someone is an alchoholic doesn't mean they are jerks.
back to the topic.....
I don't care myself, about the dead animals.unless they are pets. but then again, living in the inner city I see much less of those then I do people breaking glass bottles.
as for cops doing anything about it, the cops don't usually come to my neighborhood when we call them. they definitly don't take people in for breaking glass.
I think some of you live sheltered lives......
"I wish the cops would take the time to pick these up, fingerprint them, then fine the miscreants $1000 for the first offense and $10000 for the second."
"I say, lock them up and throw away the key on the third offence."
At least in my neck of the wood, there are quite a few problems I would rather have the police and court system deal with in such a passionate mannor.
I'm really not interested in debating the merits or lack thereof of alcohol. I like beer and drink it often. :beer: I don't need an MRI to tell me I have brain damage, many people confirm it for me every day.
Anway, I often wonder how many people would be on this forum were it not for alcohol? How many million citizens do you think would NOT be here if there parents hadn't gotten liquored up and let the sparks fly!
I am pretty sure there will be a big mvoement to wipe alcohol out the way they have with smoking. I don't think they will be nearly as successful.
On the subject of animals: How many have you have witnessed an animal car collision while on a bike? I saw a HUGE turtle get overhauled about 10 feet in front of me a couple months ago. Without getting too graphic, it was a horrible sound. It made me cringe and I KNOW that I definitely don't want to get hit by a car. It is truly amazing the damage a car can inflict. It is also truly amazing how few people are aware of this. Otherwise they wouldn't be putting on lipstick, or shaving or reading the paper while they are driving.
I am pretty sure there will be a big mvoement to wipe alcohol out the way they have with smoking. I don't think they will be nearly as successful.
they already tried that about 100 years ago..... didn't work.
the bottom line is, far more people drink then don't. and far far more people in power drink then don't so I really doubt we will see booze banned anytime soon.
allthough, to my knowledge, it is banned from college football games.
Back to the topic:
There is a simple solution to the broken beer bottle problem. Plastic beer bottles. It's worked for soft drinks. It'd make it a lot easier to carry a carton home on my bike, too.
Hey, Allister, thanks for bringing us back on track!
The one problem is when I do drink the occasional beer, it tasts so much better out of a glass bottle or a glass mug. But, your point is well taken. Perhaps a deposit on beer, liquor and wine bottles of say, .50 each? That would stop most of it, I would imagine.
With me, the same thing is true with coffee. I have one or two cups per day and I cannot stand to have them in a paper or, worse yet, styrofoam cup. Give me china!
Maybe states that have bottle deposits just don't have the amount set high enough--if a bottle brought back $0.25/each, fewer people would find the thrill of the breaking noise worthwhile. Oregon has had bottle deposits since 1971 and I do not believe has ever adjusted them either for inflation or for the greater variety of beverages sold in glass.
I have been deposting beer bottles, so that problem is not cause by me, actually yesterday I have returned to the beer store, 8 cases of empty beer bottles, why not? it gives me extra moolahh
The one problem is when I do drink the occasional beer, it tasts so much better out of a glass bottle or a glass mug.
True, but the more you drink, the less you care. :beer:
"I wish the cops would take the time to pick these up, fingerprint them, then fine the miscreants $1000 for the first offense and $10000 for the second."
"I say, lock them up and throw away the key on the third offence."
At least in my neck of the wood, there are quite a few problems I would rather have the police and court system deal with in such a passionate mannor.
That's the great thing about levying harsher punishments, you don't need to choose one or the other. You can increase the penalty for as many crimes as you like, without having to find $$$ to buy more police officers. In fact, it would probably put less stress on police resources. I don't think there would be too many repeat offenders after a $1,000 fine, do you?
Talking about beer killing brain cells reminds me of an old Cheers episode. Cliff was sitting at the bar talking to Norm. Cliff explained that when buffalo roamed the plains, they never left a member of the herd behind, as a result they were only as fast as the slowest member of the herd. When wolves preyed on the herd they got the slowest, weakest buffalo, making the herd better and faster. Everyone knows that beer kills brain cells, but it only kills the slowest, weakest ones. That's why you always feel smarter after a couple of beers.
...
Oregon has had bottle deposits since 1971 and I do not believe has ever adjusted them either for inflation or for the greater variety of beverages sold in glass.
That is exactly the problem here in Michigan. We have a .10 deposit on bottles for carbonated beverages. Water, fruit juice, wine and spirits are all exempt. The main offender around here seems to be half-pint and pint sized liquor bottles made of glass.
All in all things are much better than before the "bottle deposit" law though. I would like to see it expanded.
Dan
The sooner society realizes that Alcohol is a DRUG and those who cannot get by without it are drug addicts then perhaps we will be on our way to a better world.
Until then we will be running over beer bottles and such.
Wasn't it Kurt Cobain who came to the conclusion that Crack had all the essential vitamins and minerals and BCAA's needed for a growing body. :eek:
Wasn't it Kurt Cobain who came to the conclusion that Crack had all the essential vitamins and minerals and BCAA's needed for a growing body. :eek:
All the best health advice comes from rock performers. ;)
"At least in my neck of the wood, there are quite a few problems I would rather have the police and court system deal with in such a passionate mannor.
You are, of course, 100% correct.
People tend to complain loudest when their personal ox is gored. Mine, and many cyclists happens to be broken bottles.
Every solution to this problem has costs. I think the least costly one is the idea of deposits for all beverages which come in glass bottles. The costs will be borne by those who purchase them most often which is as it should be.
You are, of course, 100% correct.
People tend to complain loudest when their personal ox is gored. Mine, and many cyclists happens to be broken bottles.
Every solution to this problem has costs. I think the least costly one is the idea of deposits for all beverages which come in glass bottles. The costs will be borne by those who purchase them most often which is as it should be.
I concur. $5.00 a bottle would make it prohibitively expensive to ride around throwing bottles out of the window. Might even sober a few addicts up.
I concur. $5.00 a bottle would make it prohibitively expensive to ride around throwing bottles out of the window. Might even sober a few addicts up.
You know, as I was dodging broken beer bottles last Saturday, the figure of $5 deposit per bottle was what I thought of as being the level where only a complete and total fool would throw a bottle out the window. It would also make it lucrative to keep your eyes open for beer bottles lying around!
Back to the topic:
There is a simple solution to the broken beer bottle problem. Plastic beer bottles. It's worked for soft drinks. It'd make it a lot easier to carry a carton home on my bike, too.
I was thinking the same thing; plastic bottles are the solution. There is already some trend in that direction because when you buy beer at concerts and other public attractions, it is often in plastic bottles. I know from brewing beer myself that the shelf-life for beer is shorter in plastic bottles. The solution to that problem is to drink your beer faster :beer:
Glass is a cool material for storage, though. It has almost unlimited raw material supply, it is very effectively recycled, and it is a fantastic inert material for storage.
Too bad so much of it ends up broken on streets. I've noticed the same thing about so much beer and liquor bottles being broken on streets. Think about it, though; almost anything in the hands of a drunk gets broken whether it is a bottle, a car, a life, a heart or a home. Alchohol is very frequently associated with destruction.
Ah well. Life goes on.
Talking of Budweiser:
When they first applied for permission to import it to the UK, they were required to send 2 samples to the public health office to confirm that it was fit to drink.
A week later they received the reply "Neither of these horses is fit to work"
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