I am a bit confused about wideloaders and freeloaders... From most pictures, it looks like the freeloader bags are simply open-top bags that strap directly to the V racks. But this picture of the dummy suggests otherwise:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/surlybikes/1553138531/sizes/l/in/photostream/

It looks like there are a couple of fold down aluminum legs that hold the freeloaders out away from the frame. Is this the case?

Also, regarding the wideloaders, they snap into the side-pointing tubes in front of and behind the rear tire, right? But if you don't have the wideloaders there to support the bottom fo the bags, do the bags sag down and inward toward the wheel?

It's hard to visualize all of this from the photos floating around out there. Xtracycle needs more videos or something showing how all of the bits and pieces go together!

It looks like there are a couple of fold down aluminum legs that hold the freeloaders out away from the frame. Is this the case?
I think that's a freeloader holding a wideloader.

And I don't know how rigid the back of the freeloader is, but I think it's pretty tightly held between all four sides of its frame. You don't need the wideloaders. The Big Dummy has a piece of frame between the bag and the wheel anyway.

Have you looked at this from the Xtracycle site? It may help to explain how Wideloaders are used. They can be handy for really large bulky loads.

http://www.xtracycle.com/wideloader-p-15.html

I am a bit confused about wideloaders and freeloaders... From most pictures, it looks like the freeloader bags are simply open-top bags that strap directly to the V racks. But this picture of the dummy suggests otherwise:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/surlybikes/1553138531/sizes/l/in/photostream/

It looks like there are a couple of fold down aluminum legs that hold the freeloaders out away from the frame. Is this the case?

Also, regarding the wideloaders, they snap into the side-pointing tubes in front of and behind the rear tire, right? But if you don't have the wideloaders there to support the bottom fo the bags, do the bags sag down and inward toward the wheel?

It's hard to visualize all of this from the photos floating around out there. Xtracycle needs more videos or something showing how all of the bits and pieces go together!

I hope this picture helps. Its not mine, I found it on Flickr one day:
http://flickr.com/photos/14177773@N07/1553683973/

Basically, you can see how the wideloader attaches, and on the other side, if you look carefully, you can see one of the tensioning straps for the freeloader that keeps it very taut and away from the wheel. I've loaded some fairly heavy, odd shaped things into the freeloaders without them having any effect on the bags reaching the wheels, its well designed.

And you got it, the freeloaders are primarily just open top bags. They have a small mesh zippered pocket a few inches square, and a larger velcro pocket that spans the length of the bag on the inside for holding loose things, but the bulk of the Freeloader's carrying capacity is simply in its use as a giant carrying sling. Despite not having a top, I find that it holds *most* things in well enough, and the tubing on the V-racks is just perfect for bungee cords should that not be the case.

I think that's a freeloader holding a wideloader.

Ahh, yes that makes sense!

Have you looked at this from the Xtracycle site? It may help to explain how Wideloaders are used.

Cool... I understand the wideloaders alone, it was just the freeloader design that I was confused about.

Abneycat, thanks for the picture it does make the freeloader attachment more clear. So it looks like it's basically a tightly stretched panel parallel to the wheel and a large open top sack that hangs off of it. It does look nice and simple! I am intrigued by this custom design though, I like the idea of the covering flaps:
http://picasaweb.google.com/chrisnealchris/TiLongtail

At any rate, I like the idea of the bags being simple top loaders. I have a pair of cheaper panniers that turn into backpacks, but it's time consuming to zip the pannier attachment panel on and off, and it's a compromise as a pannier as well as in it's backpack form. Much cooler to toss a real backpack into a freeloader and hit the road.