Living Car Free - Why mass transit is unpopular:

I am changing work places. My new commute will take me from the extreme SW of Dallas to the NW of Dallas.

Bicycle only: 23 miles of multi-lane arterials (MLA) with the highest posted speed limit (PSL) of 40 MPH. from home to work. I would need to leave the house 2 hours before 8 AM. (One and a half hour riding, half an hour for cool-down or flats.) The distance and roads are well within my abilities.

Light rail: Five miles to train station closest to my house and then four miles from train station to work on MLA with PSL of 40 MPH. It would cost me $3 each day and I would still have to leave the house at 6 AM. An additional hazard with this plan is that if passenger use is heavy, my bike and I can be kicked off the train.

Mass transit for the entire trip: Walk a half mile to a bus stop to meet the 6:07 AM bus, transfer to rail, then transfer to another bus to arrive at work with about 10 minutes to spare. I should actually have to to meet the 5:47 bus to allow for connection mishaps. In this scenario I would leave the house about 5:30 AM. This commute would also cost $3 a day. ($2.50 a day if I bought a monthly pass for $50 and used it five days a week.)

In my case, with almost door to door service, I can easily travel across town faster on my bicycle than if all or part of the trip were done on mass transit.:eek:

Wow that looks like a bad transit route. Mass transit with lots of transfers and lots of stops really make it a poor option. It is a nice option to have if you can't ride due to really bad weather though, or if you can't ride 23 miles. I'm finding a similar distance by bike to be wearing me down.

I think I could get from double oak if I got to highland village and then took an express down to dallas and transfered to get over to irving. hmm. Using the dart itenerary tool.
If I leave work tonight by DART bus at 4:39 I can take the 301 to the 202 to the 102 which gets me into lewisville at 7:20 , with nearly one hour of transfer lag.
"Your trip has 2 transfers and will take 2 hour[s] and 40 minute[s]. Depart 4:39p from stop HIDDEN RIDGE @ GREEN PARK - E - FS on line "301 N IRVING TC VIA TUDOR". Arrive 4:44p at stop NORTH IRVING TC. Transfer 5:00p at stop NORTH IRVING TC to line "202 DOWNTOWN DALLAS VIA LAS COLINAS". Arrive 5:28p at stop CBD WEST TC. Transfer 6:10p at stop LAMAR @ PACIFIC - S - NS to line "DCTA ROUTE 102 - DENTON PARK & RIDE". Arrive 7:20p at final destination stop LEWISVILLE PARK & RIDE."
After that I catch the DCTA Bus to the highland village walmart which is hourly meaning another 40 minute wait and however long that trip takes. Then walk 2 miles home with no shoulder narrow 40mph 2 lane roads. My commute would almost be as long as my work day if not longer gross.

Wow I guess mass transit is completely out for me. I think I'd have to call for a ride or sleep on a cot :(

I hear you there. My apartment is 1/4 block from a bus stop. My work has a bus stop at the edge of the parking lot. Its about 3 miles between the two. It takes me about 35 minutes to go the distance by bicycle. I can walk it in a little over an hour. It would take 1 hour and 50 minutes to make the trip by bus.

The trick, both my apartment and employer are in west Little Rock. All bus lines run radially from downtown to other parts of Little Rock. I would have a 45 minute ride to downtown, a 25 minute wait and a 50 minute ride out to work. :rolleyes:

No one takes mass transit around here because it's too crowded.

When I lived back in Connecticut I was pretty lucky considering. I worked in NYC and basically you had metro north running trains along Long Island Sound to NYC for commuters on a good schedule. If I wanted to I could take a bus 4 miles which took twenty minutes because of all the lights and stops (usually I rode my bike 10 miles to the closer stop with bike lockers). I'd then get on the train and sleep/read or whatever until it stopped at grand central station in NYC. Going home was much the same.

It wasn't perfect of course. Far too many limits on train speed due to poor tracks and poor track placement. It was really the only way in unless you wanted to drive 60+ miles into NYC and pay $$$ to park or pay $$ to park and bus/subway it in. And of course the sheer time sink if you lived further down the line like I did. Yeah "Train time is Your time" and all that crap they used to spew but you know 3-4 hours daily of Train time blew chunks when my boss kept me for what we'd call half days. Half day = 12+ hours.

For a little while we lived in a little half room upstairs apartment closer to NYC and I had almost an extra 2 hours everyday! Of course being married, having dogs you need more space and out to the burbs where you can afford and commute time goes +++.

We just recently got a little mass transit system in my town. It mostly runs when I'm already at work, and doesn't go any of the places I need to go. :lol: But hey, as long as it helps some people (and it does).

I hear you there. My apartment is 1/4 block from a bus stop. My work has a bus stop at the edge of the parking lot. Its about 3 miles between the two. It takes me about 35 minutes to go the distance by bicycle. It would take 1 hour and 50 minutes to make the trip by bus.

The trick, both my apartment and employer are in west Little Rock. All bus lines run radially from downtown to other parts of Little Rock. I would have a 45 minute ride to downtown, a 25 minute wait and a 50 minute ride out to work. :rolleyes:

That is basically what we have around here, add in the fact that earliest buses don't start running until around 7am...and stop around 7pm...now what good is that if you have a shift job and work first or second shift. You can get a ride one way or the other, the rest of the time you are on your own. No wonder we have so many people driving around.

Aaron:)

No one takes mass transit around here because it's too crowded.

Umm. if it is too crowded someone must be taking it...:D

Light rail: Five miles to train station closest to my house and then four miles from train station to work on MLA with PSL of 40 MPH. It would cost me $3 each day and I would still have to leave the house at 6 AM. An additional hazard with this plan is that if passenger use is heavy, my bike and I can be kicked off the train.



Why not move closer to one of the lightrail stops? That way you would only have to bike four miles from the train station to work. I did this and became car free in the process. Buy a folding bike and a bag and now they can't kick you off. My lightrail is going up to $2.50 one way but with a monthly pass, it's about $53.00 dollars and weekends are free. Mass transit works, but if it doesn't, you have to make it work by relocating. You can become and bike free as I have.

Trust me, 23 miles each day will really wear you down.

Wow, you guys have really bad mass tranist. In Seattle, we've been working on some sort of rail for, oh, 40 years or so, but, surprisingly, the bus system isn't so bad. I've found it to be efficient, very inexpensive compared to owning a car, comfortable, and easy to figure out. King County has this trip planning feature on its web site (as I imagaine other cities do), and it's really convenient. I can get to work by bus in about 15-20 minutes, door to door. It's not as fun, or, in most cases, as fast as riding a bike, though, so I'll almost always opt for the bike unless it's icy.

It really helps a lot, though, if you live closer to work. I always make sure that living close to my job is a viable option; I work really long hours, and there's no way I'm going to minimize my precious free time even further by spending a lot of time on a long, sh*tty commute.

I drive about 35 miles to work every day (Garland to Euless). Now you see why!

I can catch a bus close to my house, or ride my bicycle about 6 miles to the rail station. Then transfer to the Trinity Railway Express at Union Station, and get off 2 miles from my work. Then go on a busy road, 3- lanes each way, no shoulder, no sidewalk, no streetlights, with lots of truck traffic. The last time I did that was on a Saturday. I got down to Union Station and had to wait over an hour for the next TRE train, took me something like 3 hours total. I could have driven it in 45 minutes. And unless it's 56 degrees outside, that last 2 miles is going to get me either cold or sweaty.

By the way, the old silver TRE units are terrible for a bike. You have to tote it up the steep narrow stairs and onto the train. TRE is slower than DART, the run slower and stay at the stops longer.

There are a couple of DART lines currently under construction- does either of those get closer to where you live?

Well in theory Public Busses are a very reasonable way for me to get to work. one block from my house I can be picked up, and without any changes be dropped off (in 45 min.) about six blocks from work. If I change buses I can get within 3 blocks for about an even 60 min. The bike times are basically the same 45-60 min. The monthly cost is 41 dollars.

There are two reasons the bus is not my first choice (other than the excersise which I need): First the people, people are either very stinky, or very loud and often both. and in my experience the people on the bus are even more so stinky and loud. Second the schedules, or should I say lack of a schedule; the bus can be up to 10 minutes late (or early how f'ed up is that?), on top of that they change the schedule every three months just to keep me from having it memorized. Add to this that the slightest manipulation of the weather or rider density throws the entire days schedule out of wack leaving busses half hours behind.

No one takes mass transit around here because it's too crowded.

Wow I wish we had that problem. MARTA allows bikes on trains if there's space, but I've never been on a train so crowded I was forced to get off.

Americans love affair with their cars. They don't want to be inconvenienced by having to having to figure out transit time tables.

No one takes mass transit around here because it's too crowded.

:D:D:D

I nominate that for the Yogi Berra award.

I live in Minneapolis and work in one of its suburbs (not a popular route to take in the morning). It takes me about 40 minutes to ride 6.3 miles to work. Last year, because of a knee problem, I had to take the bus for 17 days. Because of transfers and the associated layover times, and the less direct route the bus has to take (it can't go from my door to the office door), the bus trip (which costs four dollars for the round trip, by the way) takes...about 40 minutes.

Slightly off topic, gasoline here is $3.00 a gallon, which means that every day I ride to work I save half a gallon, or $1.50. I finally, this winter, have reached the point where I can go in all but the worst conditions, in comfort. As that capability has developed, I find that I am internalizing the concept of, why would anyone NOT use a bicycle to get to work? Why would I take the bus when it is no faster than a bike and costs $4.00 in addition? Why would I spend $1.50 (plus the hidden expense of wear and tear) for the privelege of hauling with me a piece of motorized heavy equipment which I then will have to store someplace while I am working? It's crazy to use anything BUT a bicycle to go that relatively short distance (unless other circumstances dictate, of course). And yet, when I walk into the office with the helmet and other stuff, there still are people who think I'M crazy.

It's crazy to use anything BUT a bicycle to go that relatively short distance (unless other circumstances dictate, of course). And yet, when I walk into the office with the helmet and other stuff, there still are people who think I'M crazy.

De Nile is a long long river.

I am changing work places. My new commute will take me from the extreme SW of Dallas to the NW of Dallas.

is it worth it to move?

personally (and i know everybody's situation is different) I'd move if you think you'll be at the new job a while. Looks like you'll be spending 3-4hrs a day commuting... that's a lot of time out of your life to get back & forth to a job.

cheers & best o luck

No one takes mass transit around here because it's too crowded.

Leela: Did you drive much in the 20th Century, Fry?
Fry: Nope. Noone in New York drove. There was too much traffic.

Americans love affair with their cars. They don't want to be inconvenienced by having to having to figure out transit time tables.

in my experience, the problem is that the transit time tables are meaningless. For instance the time table posted at one of the stops I use is now six months out of date, the bus company has done two revisions since it was posted and the times are now 5-15 min. off. Add to this the confusion of bus routes with the same number that deviate from the normal path (and aren't clearly indicated on the tables) and I can see how someone who hasn't used our bus system would find it quite daunting to start. I only did because I had no other option on a couple of occasions and had to figure it out.

Now granted the problems are worse in columbus than anywhere else I've been, but in my experience it isn't that uncommon for a few of these issues to appear in any given system.

My theory is that public transit companies typically can't afford the most well qualified processes engineers, or don't even bother to think about their time tables in this way.

My theory is that public transit companies typically can't afford the most well qualified processes engineers, or don't even bother to think about their time tables in this way.
Another way to improve bus systems might be to require that the transit system employees use the bus for their own commutes, no exceptions for anyone at any level.

Wow, you guys have really bad mass tranist. In Seattle, we've been working on some sort of rail for, oh, 40 years or so, but, surprisingly, the bus system isn't so bad. I've found it to be efficient, very inexpensive compared to owning a car, comfortable, and easy to figure out. King County has this trip planning feature on its web site (as I imagaine other cities do), and it's really convenient. I can get to work by bus in about 15-20 minutes, door to door. It's not as fun, or, in most cases, as fast as riding a bike, though, so I'll almost always opt for the bike unless it's icy.

It really helps a lot, though, if you live closer to work. I always make sure that living close to my job is a viable option; I work really long hours, and there's no way I'm going to minimize my precious free time even further by spending a lot of time on a long, sh*tty commute.

it really depends on where you live around seattle. Outside seattle proper (i.e. suburbs) it's a freakin' nightmare, imo. For me, taking the bus would entail a couple of pita transfers and about 1/2 an hour longer than just taking my bike (which is about 1/2 an hour longer than driving). Add to that, the first bus wouldn't arrive to pick me up at my house until a 1/2 hour after I'm usually at my desk at work. It would drop me off a couple blocks from my work about three hours later than I usually arrive.

I would rather be riding my bike than the bus anyways.

Another way to improve bus systems might be to require that the transit system employees use the bus for their own commutes, no exceptions for anyone at any level.

it might just convince everyone currently working those glamorous, hi-paid transit jobs.... to quit.

it might just convince everyone currently working those glamorous, hi-paid transit jobs.... to quit.

Maybe institute a once a week or month policy. Either way it is a good idea as it shows the employees the effects of their decisions.

Americans love affair with their cars. They don't want to be inconvenienced by having to having to figure out transit time tables.

Inconvenienced HELL...try to make heads or tails out of this one....FAST (http://fayettevilleonline.com/fast/) the closest it runs to my house is about 12 miles...but then again I do live out aways:rolleyes: This is the bus line that serves and area of over 300,000 that is 87% urban, the core city is around 125,000.

Edit: Found an article in an old newspaper about why they took out the shelters along the bus routes, seems the vandals were causing too much damage, so now they don't even post the schedules anymore...apparently. I have also noticed in the past that only some of the bus route signs actually identify which route you are waiting for the bus on????

Aaron:)

There are a couple of DART lines currently under construction- does either of those get closer to where you live? The rail system will more than double in size when planned expansion is finished. the last schedled part of that plan will be to extend the line closest to home by 4.5 miles... some time after 2013. :(


Is it worth it to move?
Looks like you'll be spending 3-4 hrs a day commuting... that's a lot of time out of your life to get back & forth to a job. Moving may be possible, but for my situation I will not do it.

I currently work at a "half-day job" with a 14 mile round trip commute. 12 hours plus a one hour commute, three days on, three off. I'd be home early!

True, nearly 50 miles a day would be tough to maintain, but I will be riding in on Monday morning and returning home on Friday evening. :D This job is mobile maintenance unit for a billboard company, I will be away from the Dallas area most of the week.

I am car free, and cycling in is the only method that makes sense.

it really depends on where you live around seattle. Outside seattle proper (i.e. suburbs) it's a freakin' nightmare, imo. For me, taking the bus would entail a couple of pita transfers and about 1/2 an hour longer than just taking my bike (which is about 1/2 an hour longer than driving). Add to that, the first bus wouldn't arrive to pick me up at my house until a 1/2 hour after I'm usually at my desk at work. It would drop me off a couple blocks from my work about three hours later than I usually arrive.

I would rather be riding my bike than the bus anyways.

You're probably right about the suburbs, esp. the ones farther out. I've taken the bus from Seattle to Shoreline, Edmonds, and Bothell with no trouble at at all, but I can imagine that getting to and from Bellevue or Issaqua by bus would be so horrible that even a stop-and-go car commute would seem easy by comparison. And I agree with you that taking the bike is always a much better option than any form of mass transit. It's always nice to be able to come and go as you please, and not have to worry about someone else's timetable.

Wow, you guys have really bad mass tranist. In Seattle, we've been working on some sort of rail for, oh, 40 years or so, but, surprisingly, the bus system isn't so bad. I've found it to be efficient, very inexpensive compared to owning a car, comfortable, and easy to figure out. King County has this trip planning feature on its web site (as I imagaine other cities do), and it's really convenient. I can get to work by bus in about 15-20 minutes, door to door. It's not as fun, or, in most cases, as fast as riding a bike, though, so I'll almost always opt for the bike unless it's icy.

It really helps a lot, though, if you live closer to work. I always make sure that living close to my job is a viable option; I work really long hours, and there's no way I'm going to minimize my precious free time even further by spending a lot of time on a long, sh*tty commute.

it really depends on where you live around seattle. Outside seattle proper (i.e. suburbs) it's a freakin' nightmare, imo. For me, taking the bus would entail a couple of pita transfers and about 1/2 an hour longer than just taking my bike (which is about 1/2 an hour longer than driving). Add to that, the first bus wouldn't arrive to pick me up at my house until a 1/2 hour after I'm usually at my desk at work. It would drop me off a couple blocks from my work about three hours later than I usually arrive.

I would rather be riding my bike than the bus anyways.
In addition to being a bike commuter I'm also a metro operator. I live near the U-dist and work in Bellevue. While not as efficient as in Seattle, using a combo of bicycling and bus works pretty well for me. I just take the Bus across the Evergreen bridge and from there it's not too tough to bike around the east-side. And there are plenty of express Sound Transit buses that run between Seattle and Bellevue, Issaquah, and Redmond.

While the buses are certainly better in the city itself (Seattle), it's usually more efficient for me to just bike because all my regular amenities (groceries, theaters, restaurants, etc.) are within 5 miles. Most of the time it just doesn't make sense for me to wait for the bus.

My bus company is said to be the best in the US, but I don't use it a lot. For one thing, I work second shift and the buses stop running an hour before I get out of work. For another thing, I like cycling and even walking too much to want to try the alternatives.

Bike to work -> Avg 53 min
Bus to work -> 2:15 hours (An x-fer + 1.5 miles of walking)
Car to work -> Avg 30 min

I still have a car becuase a like to ski and that's about the only reason.

South Seattle to South Downtown Bellevue is a bad combo.

I have been forced to use mass transit (bus and rail) as I am not fit to ride and am finding that in most cases, mass transit can easily double or treble the time it takes me to get places and also includes a lot of walking which I really should be avoiding.

On the bright side, I am catching up on some reading.

On the bright side, I am catching up on some reading.

Many people do this. If you're a reader anyway the extra time on the train doesn't really cut into the time in your day. A friend began using the train and decided to make it his reading time. Its amazing the books he's read. He's actually become more interesting to talk with since he began his commute time reading program. He gets distracted easily. He uses noise canceling headphones attached to a portable CD player. He plays white noise on the CD player to mask the sounds that get through the noise canceling headphones.

My commute is a 20 minute walk to the LRT station and 20 minutes on the train ... which drops me right under my university. The trains come every 6 minutes so I don't even have to rush to catch anything ... if I miss one, I'll get the next 6 minutes later. It's nice! :)

If you're a reader anyway the extra time on the train doesn't really cut into the time in your day.

Good point. Also, if you're an exerciser anyway the extra time on the bike doesn't really cut into the time in your day.

:)

Mass transit sucks because of the waiting and you don't choose your own way. The people on the bus or train(at least in NY) can be very obnoxious at times

The people on the bus or train(at least in NY) can be very obnoxious at times

Yeah, my spouse doesn't like the bus because she is worried about weird people.

When I was younger and did not have a car I used to ride the bus a lot. I thought it was strange that no one ever sat next to me.

Now I know why. I was one of those weird people!

I live about a block from the MARTA bus stop and 2.5 miles from the nearest train station. The train takes me right to my job, which is about 13 miles from my apartment (riding route). The only problem is the buses run every 30 minutes and the schedule is useless. My commute would be about 45 minutes by bus and train and about 50 minutes by bike through hellish traffic. I could also ride the train part of the way. MARTA has never kicked me off of the train. The funny thing is I am not the least bit concerned about riding in heavy traffic or on rough roads. What gets to me is the hard stares of people on the train who look at me like I am an alien creature (maybe I am??). Maybe they are mad that I have many more options than they do. They just don't realize that we all have options. Some of us just choose not to be lazy.

I live four miles from my job. It is a straight line. We do not have a subway system. I am a half a block away from the bus line. It takes two buses to get to work and it takes apporxmately two hours to get there. By bike on my worst day I can get to work in 45 minutes. It is not worth taking the bus in the MotorCity.

Gas, 69 cents the price of a can of beans.

Bike to work -> 30-35 minutes on my e-bike + 3 cents of electricity each way, 10 miles
Bus to work -> 100 minutes (40 minute walk to the bus stop, 30 minutes on the bus, 30 minute walk to work) + $2.00 fare each way
Car to work -> 20 minutes + 0.4 gallons of gas each way (about $1.50), 8.5 miles

It is an 11 mile straight shot from work for me but is still a nightmare. I take my bike with me *everywhere* and using a combination of mass transit and biking is very difficult. I usually ride my bike to work but try to use a combination of bicycle and bus to get home because of major headwinds during the afternoon.

-My route is 11 mile straight shot up Pacific Coast Highway from my work. It is a heavily used route by both tourists and commuters but the bus only comes only once every hour or so (if they arrive on time...which is very rare). This creates very crowded and sometimes full conditions, especially during the summer. Other routes that aren't used as often see the bus about once every 20 minutes or so. I just don't get this.

-Buses have racks that will hold two bikes. If those two bike racks are full then the only option I have is to wait ANOTHER hour and hope that there is an open rack on the next bus.

I am slowly getting used to riding in a headwind with a fixed gear bike. It is a slow going affair for now but I figure I will have legs of steel in a few months. It just isn't even worth it to wait for a bus that I can take for up to an hour and half just to ride for 15 minutes. I can make it home, headwinds and all, in less than an hour.

I hear you there. My apartment is 1/4 block from a bus stop. My work has a bus stop at the edge of the parking lot. Its about 3 miles between the two. It takes me about 35 minutes to go the distance by bicycle. I can walk it in a little over an hour. It would take 1 hour and 50 minutes to make the trip by bus.

The trick, both my apartment and employer are in west Little Rock. All bus lines run radially from downtown to other parts of Little Rock. I would have a 45 minute ride to downtown, a 25 minute wait and a 50 minute ride out to work. :rolleyes:
This is why I would like to see a Personal Rapid Transit System put in our city.
Bus routes and Light Rail can only cover so many routes, they try to make it
as efficient as possible to keep costs down or else they don't get enough riders
and the cost per passenger mile goes up, catch 22, if there aren't enough routes
for convenience then people don't use it. :p

See my post on PRT http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=375427&highlight=

I was reading newspapers from 100 years ago and noticed how incredible mass transit was back then. There were long distance commuter trains running every 15 minutes during rush hour! That impressed me because those same trains are now running once every hour! Trolleys were running every 5 minutes during rush hour! Incredible. I can only think of a couple New York City subways that provide that kind of service today.

It's amazing how much public transportation we had at the turn of the century, you really didn't need a car.

I was reading newspapers from 100 years ago and noticed how incredible mass transit was back then. There were long distance commuter trains running every 15 minutes during rush hour! That impressed me because those same trains are now running once every hour! Trolleys were running every 5 minutes during rush hour! Incredible. I can only think of a couple New York City subways that provide that kind of service today.

It's amazing how much public transportation we had at the turn of the century, you really didn't need a car.

That's because there hardly were any cars. We may get back to that in the not so distant future because we can't afford them or can't find gas for them.

I commute by bike + public transpo from the LA 'burbs to UCLA and it's an absolute nightmare.

House to bus stop: a little under 2mi--10-15mins on bike
Wait for bus: 0-20min, depending on whether I get to the one I need on time (I have a folding bike so I don't get kicked off buses when the racks are full and trains when it's rush hour and "no full-sized bikes allowed," so I don't have a problem with missing connections because of my bike.)
Bus to Downtown LA: 1-1.5hr, depending on traffic
Subway from Downtown to further west: 30mins.
Bus to Wilshire: 30min-1hr+, depending on the traffic--if it's really bad I get off where the traffic starts and bike for longer
Bike from Wilshire to UCLA: 10min (it's just a bit farther than a block, but the stupid hills of Westwood make me slow to a crawl)

Total miles=around 40

That's around 3hrs one way. Sigh. Stupid LA traffic, and stupid LA mass transit. I definitely need to move closer to campus, but I can't afford it. :(

Mass transit sucks because of the waiting and you don't choose your own way. The people on the bus or train(at least in NY) can be very obnoxious at times

I agree that the waiting can get tedious after a while; that's why I almost always use the bike if my trip is 10 miles or less. But even waiting for the bus is better than driving around aimlessly looking for parking for 10-15 minutes. And, with one or two exceptions, people on the bus have been polite and respectful to others. Yes, sometimes they're poor, but I don't think that makes them lepers.

Americans love affair with their cars. They don't want to be inconvenienced by having to having to figure out transit time tables. Transit time tables don't have a whole lot of relevance to real life. So there is no point in trying to figure them out. Sad but true.

That's around 3hrs one way. Sigh. Stupid LA traffic, and stupid LA mass transit. I definitely need to move closer to campus, but I can't afford it. :(

How about moving on campus? I lived in university housing for three years during grad school and it was very reasonable. Also look into co-op housing.

nyc transit system is ****ing sewer! too many two legged rats.