Daytime Flashers

Blue Order

Blinky recommendations: Planet Bike Blinky Super Flash (http://ecom1.planetbike.com/3034.html) or Cateye TL-LD1000 (http://www.cateye.com/en/product_detail/280), both bright enough for daylight use.

BTW, that driver owes you a new helmet and wheel, plus whatever doctor bills you have (a rider was recently hit in Portland (http://bikeportland.org/2008/02/26/injured-cyclist-looking-for-driver-who-hit-him/), and thought he was OK, until the next day...). Her citation, and admission that she wasn't keeping a proper lookout, should be all you need to collect from her insurance company. Make sure you notify her insurance company, though, just in case she doesn't...unless she offers to pay all your expenses out of her own pocket.

narr33

Visibility was good in terms of weather and road conditions, so I think it was a matter of not paying attention. I am thinking of how this could be prevented in the furture. Maybe, even if the driver was a little distracted a flashing light would have caught their attention for just that second and the accident could have been avoided. Half of my riding is at night but after 1.5 years of commuting full time all my close calls have occured during the day. One of my bikes has a generator hub and LED light that I leave on during the day and it seems to me that cars are less likely to cut me off when this light is on.

Helmet Head

Visibility is not enough. You need to be conspicuous too. What's the difference? A woman walking down a sidewalk might be perfectly visible, but what will make her conspicuous is if she takes off her clothes. In other words, being conspicuous means you draw attention. A daytime blinky might help with that, but so will using a more conspicuous lane position - being out there were motorists are looking for traffic, rather than off to the side where bicyclists usually ride, especially when faster same direction traffic is not present (which was presumably the case here or she would have cut them off too). Remember, you're trying to be conspicuous from the point of view of the driver - and that point of view includes paying most of their attention to those areas where traffic is mostly likely to conflict with them. So that's where you should be riding in order to be conspicuous to those drivers with whom you are mostly like to have a conflict.

StrangeWill

or that she didn't pay attention, you miss judged her cluelessness.

2nded, being as I'm a delivery driver, I can say again, helmut, it has nothing to do with lane positioning, people sometimes just don't pay attention, you'll need to account for that and learn to read people in cars.

Helmet Head

2nded, being as I'm a delivery driver, I can say again, helmut, it has nothing to do with lane positioning, people sometimes just don't pay attention, you'll need to account for that and learn to read people in cars.
That fact that people sometimes just don't pay attention doesn't mean being conspicuous has nothing to do with lane positioning. It is true that sometimes motorcyclists are overlooked even when they are riding in the most conspicuous lane positions, but they still teach you to ride there in motorcycle safety courses, and for good reason. That's also where your vantage and safety buffers tend to be best too.

But of course you also have to learn to read drivers. Getting to be good at that is an important aspect of traffic safety, regardless of whether you're bicycling, motorcycling, or driving a car or truck.

But if you would like your reading of drivers to result in finding drivers that overlook you much less often, learning to choose a conspicuous lane position is a big part of getting there.

Blue Order

blah blah blah using a more conspicuous lane position - being out there were motorists are looking for traffic, rather than off to the side where bicyclists usually ride, especially when faster same direction traffic is not present (which was presumably the case here or she would have cut them off too). blah blah blah:rolleyes:

Did you even bother to read his post before your fingers ht the keyboard with that canned response?

He said she failed to yield as she was coming out of a fast food joint.

Lane position-schmane position. Maybe we could all chip in and buy you a clue. :rolleyes:

Helmet Head

:rolleyes:

Did you even bother to read his post before your fingers ht the keyboard with that canned response?

He said she failed to yield as she was coming out of a fast food joint.

Lane position-schmane position. Maybe we could all chip in and buy you a clue. :rolleyes:
Yes, I read it!
She did not notice him, almost certainly because he was riding in a bike lane or off to the side where she was paying little or no attention, and not riding where she almost certainly was paying most of her attention: out in the traffic lane.

Bekologist

Savvy bicyclists run daytime visible blinkies front and rear. these help increase visibility REGARDLESS of road position.

The new high powered LED systems on flash are visible DURING THE DAY to a half mile or better (personal observations among the Seattle commuting peloton) and will get you better, quicker 'conspicuity' than any lane position will.

Head, your pet 'theories' don't hold water amongst the experienced bicyclists:

bicyclists get overlooked REGARDLESS of road position, dude. it WILL happen to you someday as you get more miles under your tires as a solo commuter.

narr33

JeffB502

I've had a couple of "didn't see me" moments that have encouraged me to use daylight visible flashers.

The first I was doing about 25mph on a 5 lane (2 each way, wide outside lanes with parking, center turn lane) 35mph business district. I was riding to the far left of the lane due to parked cars and to increase my visibility to people coming out of driveways. A pickup truck driver coming the other way apparently didn't see me, and started a mid-block left turn in front of me. We both came to quick stops and didn't hit each other, but I was amazed he didn't see me until it was almost too late. The sun was high in the sky and I was wearing a nearly new ANSI lime safety vest. After that incident I started running daylight visible forward-facing flashing lights.

Another interesting incident I had I was riding in the middle of the lane on the 2 lane (passing legal at most points) 55mph portion of my commute. An elderly woman coming up behind me clearly did not see me in the middle of the lane, and was coming at me at full speed (I could tell because I was watching her in my mirror). As she was nearing the point where emergency braking would fail to keep her from hitting me and I was looking for places to bail, she finally slammed on the brakes and slowed down to my speed. I had been wearing my hi-vis vest at that time, and again it was a great day as far as visibility, but that didn't appear to be enough. After that I decided to get a Dinotte 140L. I was so pleased with the first one that when they went on sale I got a 2nd one.

Here's a link to a short video I just made showing my lighting setup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iib3EYEr9a4

Blue Order

...a Dinotte 140L.....

Here's a link to a short video I just made showing my lighting setup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iib3EYEr9a4Is that the Dinotte? I didn't realize they have a flash mode...

Bekologist

so the cyclist in the OP was taking the lane AND wearing high vis colors, head!

narr33

JeffB502

A great setup - that's what I'm looking for. Thanks

JeffB502

Is that the Dinotte? I didn't realize they have a flash mode...

Yeah. The current ones have 3 flash modes (5 quick flashes with the light on constant low, slow single flashes with the light on constant low, and a slow flash with the light completely off between flashes) and 3 steady modes (low, medium, high).

Bekologist

The Niterider Minewt X2, Trinewt, and the Light & Motion Stella are 3 other quality rechargeable systems to consider for front lighting bright enough for serious daytime conspicuity, narr33.

narr33

The dumb thing about the accident is that I had a Niterider Classic light on the bike but because it was during the day and had no blinking mode it was not turned on. I'm glad I survived this one but now I am going to do all I can to be seen - that mean lights during the day as well.

Helmet Head

to clarify: there was no shoulder at this point in the road I had the lane. Helmet makes a good point about lane position but it is relatvent in this case. Anyway being conspicuous is what I am after - apparently wearing yellow and red is not always enough.
Where in the lane were you riding? In particular, where were you laterally relative to where you would expect a motorcyclist to be positioned?

Blue Order

Yeah. The current ones have 3 flash modes (5 quick flashes with the light on constant low, slow single flashes with the light on constant low, and a slow flash with the light completely off between flashes) and 3 steady modes (low, medium, high).Thanks! I've just changed my mind about how I'm going to set up my lights. ;)

CB HI

Blinky recommendations: Planet Bike Blinky Super Flash (http://ecom1.planetbike.com/3034.html) or Cateye TL-LD1000 (http://www.cateye.com/en/product_detail/280), both bright enough for daylight use...Cateye TL-LD1100 is now available and is a little brighter and not quite as heavy. Performance Bike sells both for the same price right now. $40

narr33

Helmet
I was about a foot left of the white line. The road splits to form a Y soom after.

Helmet Head

so the cyclist in the OP was taking the lane
No, he was not taking the lane, Beck.

Helmet
I was about a foot left of the white line. The road splits to form a Y soon after.
Thank you. That's what I thought... "as far right as practicable" and not in what I would call a conspicuous lane position.
You did nothing wrong. Perfectly legal.
I'm just saying that you could make yourself surprisingly more conspicuous simply by riding about 6-10+ feet to the left of the white line, rather than a foot. Having a mirror and learning to use it effectively in order to establish and maintain rearward situational awareness is very helpful so that you can adjust lateral lane position accordingly based on whether faster traffic is approaching from behind or not. Any time faster same direction traffic is not present, I'm way out there in the lane, precisely to greatly reduce (not eliminate - nothing can do that) the chance of being overlooked like you were, but also to improve my vantage and safety buffer space.

We could argue about whether a daylight blinky or lane position is more effective at making you conspicuous, but all I can tell you is that by habitually adopting a conspicuous lane position, I have no need to make myself more conspicuous with daytime blinkies, though I've recently begun to turn on my rear red SuperFlash on gray/overcast days, just in case. It seems to help draw attention to me when I'm riding in a bike lane, attention that is diminished ironically because I'm in the bike lane (and thus not in "their" lane so of less relevance to them).

narr33

Helmet Head

Cateye TL-LD1100 is now available and is a little brighter and not quite as heavy. Performance Bike sells both for the same price right now. $40
Actually, I have both the TL-LD1100
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/11boBOoYjVL._SS90_.jpg
and the SuperFlash

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/11EU6XwpzAL._AA140_.jpg
on my bike, but that's on the rear. That would not have been of any help in this situation (being noticed from the front).

What, if anything, is anyone running on the front during the day? I have a single LED flashing frog lite on the front, but I only run that night as a backup to my main front headlight.

Helmet Head

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. I ordered a Denotte 140L-AA-A amber daylight (the use of standard size batteries was a big selling point) for the front and will use a Cateye TL-LD1100 for the rear.
It's Dinotte (with an i).

https://store.nexternal.com/dinotte/images/140L_AA2.jpg

$169 for a daytime light???

I'm telling you, you're throwing money at a something that at best might help the problem you're to solve. Changing your habits about lane position is free.

Blue Order

I'm telling you:lol:

Well, he is the expert.

:lol:

narr33

helmet

Right now even if it might, 'might' prevent one trip to the hospital (or worse) - $169 is cheap. [and I can still take the lane for free!]

striegel

During daylight, I use the NiteRider MiNewt X2.Dual in its blinking mode on the handlebars.

One day, just a little before twilight, I was riding on a 2-lane state highway near my home with the lights flashing when a lady driving in the opposite direction slowed, pulled over, and stopped. As I went by, she lowered her window and shouted to me across the road, "You shouldn't do that!"

I believe that she was referring to running my blinking lights, since she probably thought from a distance that I was an emergency vehicle. To my way of thinking, this episode perfectly illustrated why I should be doing that -- my lights made me very noticeable.

twahl

I've noticed two local commuters lately that are using flashing LED headlights when riding during the day. Since I tend to be more alert for cyclists than the average driver I may not be the best judge, but to me, they are certainly more noticeable. I think it's a good call.

Helmet Head

helmet

Right now even if it might, 'might' prevent one trip to the hospital (or worse) - $169 is cheap. [and I can still take the lane for free!]
I understand.

What I hope you understand is that using more conspicuous lighting and more conspicuous lane positioning does not guarantee you will not be overlooked either (ask any motorcyclist who regularly are overseen even with their lights on).

The third and arguably most important key is learning to read drivers and situations, and learn to avoid situations where they can and might hit you. Being further left not only makes you less likely to be overlooked, but also gives you more evading time and space, and gives her more room and time to notice you and stop in time before hitting you.

If you're approaching a place where a right turn can be made, especially if there is a driver waiting to get out of there, your instinct should be to look back and move left, way left in this case. That move alone is probably going to get her to notice you, but even if it doesn't, again, you're positioned much better out there. Then you need to judge whether she has not only looked at you, but whether she has noticed you, which is not the same thing. That's what reading drivers is about, and is absolutely required whether you have a blinky or not, whether you use proper lane positioning or not. Crossing movements are our biggest hazard, please ride accordingly.

Bekologist

head- someday you will be overlooked as you ride in the middle of the lane. it's likely already happened, dude :roflmao:

to the OP: daytime visible LED blinkies are what the savvy bicyclist will run to maximize daytime conspicuity regardless of where they are in the road, becasue experienced bicyclists realize we all get overlooked regardless of where in the road we are riding.

Argus

I always assume that the driver of a car does not see me, and I do the same thing while on a motorbike as well. With the stupid things I've seen they pretty much prove me right.

The only way to make them see is to have every driver of a motor vehicle bike to work for a week, then they'll start to see bikes on the road.

dynodonn

Some 20 + years ago, I put a 2 speed headlight pulse module on my motorcycle, fast pulse for town and slow pulse for the freeway, it garnered considerable attention from motorists, and motorcyclists alike, reducing the number of pullouts, and left hooks. I have yet to use my lights on my bike in bright daylight, I might consider changing my way of thinking and do like I did on my motorcycle, but so far, my "glowing gumby" attire seems to be doing the trick.

dmac49

First I hope you are ok and not injured. From the description of the incident you make it sound as if she approached you from a side angle. I really don't see a blinky being of any help in this instant. As it was daylight the colors you were wearing should have be sufficient and a blinky to the rear would have been of little use. I do believe in using blinkies in daylight however. As the person was cited for the incident you may consider filing a small claims action to recover your helmet lose as well as your wheel. In any case the main thing is you didn't (assumption) get seriously hurt. If you do consider a bright blinky I might suggest one that has a side flash such as Cateye's 1100 or the MARS 3.0. And maybe a Cateye 410 to the front on flash for the daylight. Good riding.

narr33

I think the Cateye is a good idea becasue of the side visibility. The area has constant traffic, a stoplight, strip mail etc to draw peoples attention this way and that. Plus its winter so most people are not expecting bikers so maybe I did not register on her radar. With all the competing distractions I think it is hard for a biker to get noticed and a flashing daylight may have helped. Like I said before half of my riding is at night and I yet to have a problem (granted much less traffic) and I am well lit up. Daytime I've had several close calls - mostly cars pulling out in front of me. I went over the car and landed in the street - cut leg and temple, stiff neck. I've been in contact with the insurance company so we'll see.

Bikecop921

A car hit me today as she did not yield coming out of a fast food place. She was cited, I need a new wheel and helmet. I wear a yellow helmet and bright red jersey but she claims she did not see me. I think I will use daytime flashers from now on. Does anyone use them? Any recommendations?

Great to hear you were not hurt! And wonderful the cop handled it as a "normal" MVA and found some one at fault. Unfortunately, no matter what we wear or what kind of equipment we have to help with our visibility there are always going to be motorist that dont see us. I have had all my lights flashing, siren blaring and still ended up going endo when a vehicle decided to pull out in front of me.

But the more visible you are the better off you'll be IMO.

JeffB502

Regarding side visibility, a helmet mounted light is great for this. If somebody is starting to pull out into you from a driveway or side street all you have to do is look at them and it'll usually get their attention. I've caused many motorists that failed to see me coming to come to very quick stops by looking at them with my helmet light. A few other benefits of a helmet light: it will illuminate your handlebars at night so you can see your computer and what gear you are in, it can be used to look off into that dark field to the side when you hear something moving around but can't see it, and it will also provide extra illumination when making turns, with the light pointed where you're looking instead of where the bars are facing.

That said, it's also important to have handlebar mounted light. A light on the handlebar will cast a longer perceived shadow from an obstacle on the road, making it easier to identify. A handlebar mounted light is much more useful in foggy conditions. In fact I had a pretty foggy ride home from work tonight, and found in most situations I could see better with the helmet light off and just the bar lights running.

The best course of action, of course, is to have the largest number of insanely bright lights that you can afford, with at least one on the handlebars and one on the helmet :).

I'd recommend at least a Fenix L2D Cree Q5 (https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_65&products_id=362) with some NiMH rechargeable batteries for the helmet.

Ziemas

Blinky recommendations: Planet Bike Blinky Super Flash (http://ecom1.planetbike.com/3034.html) or Cateye TL-LD1000 (http://www.cateye.com/en/product_detail/280), both bright enough for daylight use.

The newer Cateye TL-1100 is much brighter than the old TL-1000 and it's also more visible than the Super Flash.

Bekologist

daytime visible front flashers give the impression of 'holy rollers, there's something incredibly noticable coming this way up ahead. WTF is it?'

Daytime visible front flashers ARE a bonifide safety enhancement regardless of road position.

they will help enhance visibility to the front even while a bicyclist is in the middle of the lane.

Mr_H

I have two Superflashes on the rear of one of my bikes and a Cateeye TL1000 on another. The flashes seem to be brighter to me, but sideways visibility is more limited then the TL1000. I want to pick up at least one more since my route change has me on a more exposed route.

Speaking of daytime lights, the front flashers look nice, but does anyone have recommendations for simple 'helmet' or side lights? I have a headlight that I strap to my head in the dark, but I'd like something small that I can attach to my helmet to give a little bit of brightness up there (spread out the visibility).

noisebeam

Just a tidbit... a red shirt is usually less attention getting compared to an ANSI lime one.
The front flasher or steady very bright beam can help too
As can a left biased lane position
Al

harleyfrog

Speaking of daytime lights, the front flashers look nice, but does anyone have recommendations for simple 'helmet' or side lights? I have a headlight that I strap to my head in the dark, but I'd like something small that I can attach to my helmet to give a little bit of brightness up there (spread out the visibility).

Planet Bike just released a couple new mini LED lights that are suitable for helmet mounting. There's the Spok Front (http://ecom1.planetbike.com/3042.html) and the Spok tail (http://ecom1.planetbike.com/3043.html). Not primary lights, but if it's extra attention with less weight and lighter price tag, these look pretty good.

As for side lights, check out these Lightman strobes (http://www.themaskedmerchant.com/store/product.aspx?prdId=225803).

Hope that helps. If not, I'm sure there will be plenty others to follow. :)

dbg

Just a tidbit... a red shirt is usually less attention getting compared to an ANSI lime one.
The front flasher or steady very bright beam can help too
As can a left biased lane position
Al

+1
I used to wear red during commutes but after several "issues" I switched to a very bright yellow. I did this because one day, on a very busy and old four lane (no shoulder, no bike lane, one of those high retail areas) I saw a biker wearing very bright yellow (helmet, shirt, and bike strips). He was incredibly visible. Out of all the busy and confusing things going on my eyes were immediately drawn to him. I've worn similar yellow ever since.

Mr_H

Planet Bike just released a couple new mini LED lights that are suitable for helmet mounting. There's the Spok Front (http://ecom1.planetbike.com/3042.html) and the Spok tail (http://ecom1.planetbike.com/3043.html). Not primary lights, but if it's extra attention with less weight and lighter price tag, these look pretty good.

As for side lights, check out these Lightman strobes (http://www.themaskedmerchant.com/store/product.aspx?prdId=225803).

Hope that helps. If not, I'm sure there will be plenty others to follow. :)

Thanks for those links, the first two look pretty useful for me. Just wish they had them in stock (they run out a lot...)

harleyfrog

Mr_H, Planet Bike just (like within the last week or two) came out with these. You should be seeing them at your LBS or online within the next month or two.

bike2math

I use front and rear blinkies whenever riding (although the front blinky has been failing recently when it gets wet and cold) and a safetey vest from lowes. For darker weather I have an additional front and rear light on my helmet and a bright front light on solid on my bars.

That being said I have seen or heard of drivers saying they didn't see and proceded to hit or be hit by a: bus, cement truck, tractor trailer, pack of runners, farmers market, police car, police car with lights on, ambulance with lights on, fire truck with lights on and horn going.

I can't ever be as big and imposing as a bus or cement truck, as out of place as a pack of runners or farmers market, or have as many lights and noise making doo-dads as an emergency vehicle. So it stands to reason that if they aren't safe then neither am I. So i ride accordingly.

BarracksSi

Extracting these incidents:

I've had a couple of "didn't see me" moments that have encouraged me to use daylight visible flashers.

A pickup truck driver coming the other way apparently didn't see me, and started a mid-block left turn in front of me. We both came to quick stops and didn't hit each other, but I was amazed he didn't see me until it was almost too late. The sun was high in the sky and I was wearing a nearly new ANSI lime safety vest. ...

... I was riding in the middle of the lane on the 2 lane (passing legal at most points) 55mph portion of my commute. An elderly woman coming up behind me clearly did not see me in the middle of the lane, and was coming at me at full speed (I could tell because I was watching her in my mirror). As she was nearing the point where emergency braking would fail to keep her from hitting me and I was looking for places to bail, she finally slammed on the brakes and slowed down to my speed. I had been wearing my hi-vis vest at that time, and again it was a great day as far as visibility, but that didn't appear to be enough.

Interesting. My guess is that, despite your vest, there was relatively little side-to-side motion for them to see you more easily. One was coming opposite your direction, the other was coming from behind, so you occupied the same portion of their vision. It's like waving your hands to get somebody's attention out of a crowd -- simply holding up an arm doesn't work as well as waving like the guy in Team America: World Police. Maybe they even thought that the hi-vis lime was a road sign of some kind.

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. I ordered a Denotte 140L-AA-A amber daylight (the use of standard size batteries was a big selling point) for the front and will use a Cateye TL-LD1100 for the rear.

That amber light is pretty cool. I use that one and a white 200L depending on whether I'll be riding the same bike in the evening; both work well during the day, although I think the amber one is a little better because it's more unusual and more like a warning light. I'd like to get some good looks at them from a distance.

What, if anything, is anyone running on the front during the day? I have a single LED flashing frog lite on the front, but I only run that night as a backup to my main front headlight.

I use anything that I have for the front as long as it's not red. I had a Serfas 3-LED light (actually, two), and, later, have run an amber 140L and white 200L simultaneously. I usually use just one Dinotte or the other. I also have a Dinotte taillight, usually on steady, and sometimes run a Superflash for some extra sparkle.

I haven't tried to quantify the results, but when I have a light on the front during the day, drivers who are about to pull into the street (whether from a parking spot, driveway, or cross street) stop to wait while I'm further away than if I had no light. Much, much fewer close calls.