View Full Version : accident caught on film
bandaidman
10-13-03, 09:32 PM
http://tennessean.com/local/archives/03/10/40819167.shtml
there was a qualifier dualthon locally and the leader of the race got hit by an 82 year old lady in a jeep ... fortunately he is ok but his bike was trashed and he ended up carrying his bike 2 miles and then running the rest of the race...pretty tough fellow
unlike the website...the paper shows a series of photos were you can see the fellow riding with the jeep coming up behind him (with a tuft of white hair just over the top of the wheel) ... next frame he is on the ground
that is a pretty quiet stretch on a very clear road...the kind of place i tend to feel safe....you really are at the mercy of others when you are on the bike
more poignent as i have seen a bunch of injured cyclists at work recently (a big jump over normal)
Joe Gardner
10-13-03, 09:35 PM
Why is this so hard to understand? If you cant see, DONT DRIVE!
Why is this so hard to understand? If you cant see, DONT DRIVE!
I can hear the lady's excuse now...
The steering wheel was in my eyes.
No charges files. Why not?
cycletourist
10-14-03, 08:42 AM
Why is this so hard to understand? If you cant see, DONT DRIVE!
Because they have no choice. We have built a society where, for most people, driving is mandatory, not optional. The elderly have only two choices: drive or become prisoners in their own homes.
shaharidan
10-14-03, 10:27 AM
people tend to pigeon hole people. are there elderly people who are dangerous drivers? yes. but i have had problems on my bike and in my car with drivers of all ages. and if nothing else older folks atleast tend to go slower.
and cycletourist is absolutly right, a lot of people couldnt even get to the surper market without driving. it's a shame when people get hit, and i'm glad he wasn't hurt badly.
allgoo19
10-14-03, 11:02 AM
Who else can make an excuse like this in the middle of open country road but elderly.
==Kathleen R. Jordan, 82, of College Grove, who was driving a white Jeep, said she just didn't see the cyclist.==
When a witness says like this?
==''I passed her car on a downhill, and then she passed me and stayed to the left,'' Svarre said. ''I thought she was trying to hit me, and then she ran right into Greg. I heard this loud boom, and that was it. He was down.''==
Was this intentional? No charge against her? That's ridiculous.
sadly, no charges were laid, another negligent driver is still on the roads. I suppose I'm not really surprised.
Allister
10-14-03, 07:59 PM
Because they have no choice. We have built a society where, for most people, driving is mandatory, not optional. The elderly have only two choices: drive or become prisoners in their own homes.
That's only a symptom. The real problem is they've been abandoned by their families.
Jean Beetham Smith
10-15-03, 06:00 PM
Allister, that is a subject I'm a little sensitive on. If I bring my 86 year old mother half way across the continent to live with me; I make her leave the town she was born in and has lived all of her life in. I tell her she can't visit her son's and husband's graves every Sunday. I put her into a community that is completely alien, where she knows not one person other than my family. That could be disorienting at any age. My other choice is to abandon my husband. Our society has made it very hard for families to function well. There isn't a simple solution.
Allister
10-15-03, 06:45 PM
Our society has made it very hard for families to function well. There isn't a simple solution.
No, there isn't. I sometimes think so called primitive societies have got a far better way of life than we do.
For whatever it's worth, I think you've done the right thing.
DMulyava
10-15-03, 06:55 PM
She should at least pay for the bike :(. Unlucky guy.
AndrewP
10-15-03, 07:40 PM
The yearly cost of buying and running that jeep, could buy plenty of taxi rides - particularly with the insurance rates she will be paying soon. She could probably get a special rate from the taxi company if she arranges to make her trips at off-peak times.
Chris L
10-15-03, 09:14 PM
The yearly cost of buying and running that jeep, could buy plenty of taxi rides - particularly with the insurance rates she will be paying soon. She could probably get a special rate from the taxi company if she arranges to make her trips at off-peak times.
Which makes me wonder why so many dollars are spent subisidising private transport, and bugger all spend providing public transport options for people like this.
What is up with the "I didn't see them" defense? Does that negate the fact that their vehicle, while they were operating it, hit a cyclist? I think not!
We need Neighborhood Electric Vehicles (NEVs), mobility scooters, etc. for those (of ANY age!) who really should not be driving 1.5 ton motor vehicles, plus a network of interconnected lower-speed (25mph/40kph max.) local streets. This would simultaneously address the safety and mobility issues. To his credit, Lido Iacocca, father of the Ford Mustang and Chrysler Minivan, now develops and markets NEVs.
Jean Beetham Smith
10-18-03, 04:06 PM
Actually, "I didn't see them" is probably real, and not because the driver wasn't looking. It turns out we only see what we expect to see, or something like that. That is why lawyers do so well in refuting eye-witness testimony. There is an area of research on this whole topic, because it is such a common theme in all motor vehicle accidents, not just car-bike encounters.
allgoo19
10-18-03, 04:53 PM
==Actually, "I didn't see them" is probably real, and not because the driver wasn't looking.==
"I didn't see them." is a wrong description. "I wasn't paying attention." is more like it.
When you look at the photo of the accident scene, it was in an open field, high visiblity of the road with no traffic.
Then the witness, second place rider, says "I passed her car on a downhill, and then she passed me and stayed to the left, I thought she was trying to hit me, and then she ran right into Greg. I heard this loud boom, and that was it. He was down.'' which means she was going right to left using full width of the road, even though she had a clear view of two riders with no obstruction. If one says the accident wasn't caused by her inability to drive, then there is no other way but have to think she did it on purpose.
Chris L
10-19-03, 03:08 AM
What is up with the "I didn't see them" defense?
It's just considered "socially acceptable", that's all. If people told the truth ("I wasn't paying attention because I feel invincible in my car" in most cases), most respectable judges would throw the book at them. As I've said previously, if I ever decide to kill someone, I won't use a gun or a knife. I'll just jump in a car, run then down then claim "I didn't see them" and exploit a glaring loophole.
Allister
10-19-03, 04:32 PM
Actually, "I didn't see them" is probably real, and not because the driver wasn't looking. It turns out we only see what we expect to see, or something like that.
That doesn't make it any more excusable. How about seeing what's actually there? It's not that difficult. Driving around only seeing what we expect to see is highly negligent. Things hardly ever happen as we expect them to.
Jean Beetham Smith
10-19-03, 05:18 PM
I found a link to the to a demonstration of this, it's called change blindness. Try the demonstrations. It explains why we ride into perfectly obvious road hazards. http://www.usd.edu/psyc301/ChangeBlindness.htm
Jean Beetham Smith
10-19-03, 05:34 PM
This link describes change blindness and how and when it occurs in more detail. http://nivea.psycho.univ-paris5.fr/ECS/ECS-CB.html I'm interested in this stuff, because it suggests that the relatively small visual size of pedestrians and cyclists puts them at greater risk of this happening. If that is the case, we may need to rethink what we need to do to be more visible. Lights and reflectors may not do it. I'm not saying that the driver is not ultimately responsible, but we have a responsibility to ourselves to be easily seen, and we should at least consider the possibility that we have all been barking up the wrong tree.
I found a link to the to a demonstration of this, it's called change blindness. Try the demonstrations. It explains why we ride into perfectly obvious road hazards.
I saw a double-example of this a while ago. I was travelling behind a car in a grocery store parking lot. The car in front of me was travelling rather slowly. I noticed a car in a perpendicular parking spot start backing out. As I watched in disbelief, the car in front of me without braking just slammed into the side rear end of the car backing out wrenching the rear bumper off and denting the front of the striking car. The car that was backing out had plenty of visibility to see the approaching car. The car in front of me had plenty of time and visibility to see the one backing out. Yet, both of them managed to collide at slow speeds. Either neither drivers looked or they simply ignored what they saw.
Rich Clark
10-19-03, 06:49 PM
Jean,
This is interesting stuff, and definitely on-topic for cyclists. Thanks for pointing us to it.
I wonder if this isn't part of the reason vehicular cyclists who hold their lines and work at being a predictable part of the traffic flow are generally safer. Drivers' "central interest" is objects moving in the same direction as they are, within the relatively narrow field of view they define as "the road." If a cyclist qualifies, they're more likely to be seen by a driver.
It would also help explain our increased exposure at intersections, especially to cars turning into the traffic flow from cross-streets and driveways.
RichC
I would say that if somebody runs you over without seeing you or saying they see you, it is easy(obviously) to run them over later on, because they won't see you then either.
Jacob
LittleBigMan
11-10-03, 08:02 AM
Because they have no choice. We have built a society where, for most people, driving is mandatory, not optional. The elderly have only two choices: drive or become prisoners in their own homes.
This is it in a nutshell.
Because they have no choice. We have built a society where, for most people, driving is mandatory, not optional. The elderly have only two choices: drive or become prisoners in their own homes.
No, she has choices. There is public transportation - the bus, or a cab. She could get a friend to drive her - she could get a relative to drive her. If you're drunk, don't drive. If you can't see past the end of your hood, don't drive. If you don't have the capacity to drive, find another way to get around.
My point is that it is her responsibility to find an alternate means of transportation that will give others the opportunity to get old also. There simply is no excuse. The fact that she wasn't charged with ANYTHING is a joke.
megaman
11-10-03, 04:58 PM
She should have been charged. There are just too many dangerous drivers out on the roads. If someone can't drive their vehicle safely then they should lose their lisence and vehicle.
Yes, it may make someone a prisoner in their own homes. But that is only if they let it be that way.
A study was done recently about the cost of owning and operating a vehicle. It found that it's almost always cheaper to take public transportation. That's for all local trips: shopping, to work, to entertainment, etc. Much cheaper. But as a society we are so addicted to having out own private transportation that we'll do anything, use any excuse just to keep driving.
I just wish I could remember where I read that article.
Chris L
11-10-03, 08:12 PM
No, she has choices. There is public transportation - the bus, or a cab. She could get a friend to drive her - she could get a relative to drive her. If you're drunk, don't drive. If you can't see past the end of your hood, don't drive. If you don't have the capacity to drive, find another way to get around..
My great grandmother lived to the ripe old age of 91, spending the last decade or so living on a farm, and still managed to get by without a car. The sooner we get past this idea that people are "forced" to drive everywhere, the sooner we will be able to look at events like this properly.
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