Commuting - Getting people out of cars - NIMBY attitudes

Preaching to the choir here but if any of you get the chance to watch (and friends and family) "The woman who stops traffic" do so as it's an excellent insight in just how much of a death grip the average motorist has on their steering wheel.

Basically, it's a about a conflict resolution/management consultant who is asked to try and un-jam three completely grid locked towns. Very interesting and a little frustrating to watch (Lots of "I'd drive less if there was less traffic" comments :rolleyes: ).

http://www.channel4.com/lifestyle/green/woman_stops_traffic/

The TV program is available free online here - http://www.channel4.com/4od/index.html

edit: Doh! the real title is "the woman who stops traffic"

The TV program is available free online here - http://www.channel4.com/4od/index.html

only in the UK/Ireland

only in the UK/Ireland

I'd guessed as much but, given my lack of technical IT knowledge, can't you use a proxy server in the UK to watch the show? If that's even possible.

There are a few minutes viewable from the main website.

I'd be flabbergasted if she's successful.

Oh, and the only way I see success is by riding right past the cars stuck in traffic every morning - and waving! Convince them with smiles and speed that they're just idiots stuck in their cages.

only in the UK/Ireland

And it won't work with Linux. :mad:

Well if anyone can find it anywhere else on "teh interwebz" please post the links.

edit: that is links that are useful to people outside UK/NI

you could use the Tor super-proxy to find a proxy in the UK - see http://tor.eff.org

Oh, and the only way I see success is by riding right past the cars stuck in traffic every morning - and waving! Convince them with smiles and speed that they're just idiots stuck in their cages.

That's what I do, on my commute I pass about 35-50 cars a day, only 4-6 pass me. I wave and keep on going, I also wave at the gas stations.

I was thinking about "passing" cars today...I was waiting on a looong left turn light that leads to a road that leads to the road that leads to my office:rolleyes: The road is 5+ lanes wide at that point and you can see for over a mile down the road. Cars as far as the eye can see....but no way to pass them unless you ride on the sidewalk. What is really ignorant to me, is the abandoned rail line that would make an awesome MUP/Cycleway from the one small town to the next, plus it runs across the back side of probably half a dozen smaller industrial/office "parks". The small towns have become bedroom communities for the larger city that they surround. A classic case of Piss Poor Planning and the Kar is King syndrome. I would be willing to bet that the backup at that light exceeds 2 miles and takes at least 15-20 minutes to clear thru.

Glad I only go to the office about once a month:p

Aaron:)

If you pass 100 cars on your commute, I bet 1 driver might think "Hey, maybe I should try riding my bike to work." The other 99 probably say "****ing biker! Get off the road!"

If you pass 100 cars on your commute, I bet 1 driver might think "Hey, maybe I should try riding my bike to work." The other 99 probably say "****ing biker! Get off the road!"

That is how I got my start. That and I needed to lose some weight. Now I am happy on both accounts:beer:

I was thinking about "passing" cars today...I was waiting on a looong left turn light that leads to a road that leads to the road that leads to my office:rolleyes: The road is 5+ lanes wide at that point and you can see for over a mile down the road. Cars as far as the eye can see....but no way to pass them unless you ride on the sidewalk. :)

What do you ride, a Rhodes car? http://www.rhoadescar.com/lobby.htm
Split them! That is the beauty of a bike, it is not a car, those long lines of traffic are for car drivers, not for you. A bike is so much more than a car, split them!

That's what I do, on my commute I pass about 35-50 cars a day, only 4-6 pass me. I wave and keep on going, I also wave at the gas stations.

I pass a lot more cars than that each day, but I generally keep a low profile about it. Just imagine what would happen if all of those people followed your lead, got out of their cars and started riding to work. Imagine what it would do to your commute, suddenly having to compete with 35-50 bikes for the space of the road that you currently occupy, while the 4-6 still on the road zoom by in the traffic lanes. That doesn't quite fit with my vision of a cycling utopia.

Personally, I'd be happy if they just stay in their cars and sit in the gridlock forever.

What do you ride, a Rhodes car? http://www.rhoadescar.com/lobby.htm
Split them! That is the beauty of a bike, it is not a car, those long lines of traffic are for car drivers, not for you. A bike is so much more than a car, split them!

Lane splitting is not considered legal in NC, also on that particular stretch of road the lanes are not wide enough for lane sharing, people are always weaving from one side to the other of the lane in an attempt to see ahead of them. If I had to ride that road regularly I would definitely consider being a side walk rider, what also bites is that there are no alternate routes, that I am aware of. When they widened that road they closed off and removed at least 2 of the parallel roads. The road comes from an area of "lollypop" subdivisions....glad I don't live in that area.

Aaron:)

I am not even sure lane splitting is legal here, I know for motorcycles it isn't, but my local police lt. instructed me to do it at all intersections. ( I don't do it at all intersections, just selected ones).
I guess I think of it like this, it is legal for a car to share a lane with you to pass you, so the opposite must be true as well.

I guess I think of it like this, it is legal for a car to share a lane with you to pass you, so the opposite must be true as well.

You have persuaded me! From now on I can filter without feeling guiltier.

I do filter in a lot of situations, but a 2 mile back up? BTW that is typical for this particular stretch of road. I also know that people will be irate if they have to keep passing you...

As a general rule I avoid riding in that type of traffic if there is an alternate time or route to take.

Aaron:)

Did any of you filtration experts :rolleyes: get the 4OD site to work outside the UK, either by proxy or some other means?

I normally don't filter, but a couple of years ago there was construction on the expressway here, and the 2 lane rural road that people were using as a bypass (and is my only real way to get from here to there) started having 5 miles of stopped cars on it. In the time it took me to cover that 5 miles, I doubt the cars I was passing went even 1 mile. I think I could have walked as fast as they were going. I normally go even faster on that road but having to squeeze by in the 10 inches of pavement that dropped off to gravel made me go quite a bit slower.

^^^^^^^^^^ How can you tell it's spring in Michigan? The orange construction barrels are out. :lol:

That is how I got my start. That and I needed to lose some weight. Now I am happy on both accounts:beer:

Awesome. It's like taking the red pill, isn't it?

I am not even sure lane splitting is legal here, I know for motorcycles it isn't, but my local police lt. instructed me to do it at all intersections. ( I don't do it at all intersections, just selected ones).
I guess I think of it like this, it is legal for a car to share a lane with you to pass you, so the opposite must be true as well.

If you're not sure, the simple answer is to download a copy of your local legislation and read it. Don't take the word of a motorist or someone spouting on an Internet forum, or even a police officer (who is just as likely to be ignorant of the law as anybody else). Go straight to the source.

I know that in my state, there is no law prohibiting lane-splitting at all. In fact, it's perfectly legal even for car drivers if they manage to get into a situation where it actually becomes practical.

NYT article on people ditching their mortgages to afford their cars:


Jon Maddux, a founder of You Walk Away, said the company’s services were not for everybody and were meant as a last resort. The company opened for business in January and says it has just over 200 clients in six states.

“It’s not a moral decision,” Mr. Maddux said of foreclosure. “The moral decision is, ‘I need to pay my kids’ health insurance or my car payment so I can get to work.’ They made a bad decision, but they shouldn’t make more bad ones just because they have this loan.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/29/us/29walks.html

She really did this! In February? Damn, I'm impressed.
I suppose once you get them riding in winter, the rest of the year is easy.

Hey, and she's coming to Boston!
Ohh, thats Boston, Lincolnshire, not Boston, Massachusetts, and she already did.
Sounds like her approach to advocacy really works.
I think we could use more people like her.

She really did this! In February? Damn, I'm impressed.
I suppose once you get them riding in winter, the rest of the year is easy.

Hey, and she's coming to Boston!
Ohh, thats Boston, Lincolnshire, not Boston, Massachusetts, and she already did.
Sounds like her approach to advocacy really works.
I think we could use more people like her.

Yeah, it was quite amazing to watch. Boston, UK, was chosen both for the traffic problem and because, on average, the residents are the most obese in the UK. The UK being the most obese country in the whole of Europe to give you some idea.

Maybe you can get a copy from of "the woman who stops traffic" from Channel4 for some sort of public awareness talk. I'm not sure how that would work for licensing though.

more links and discussion here (the program on torrents too for those with no morals)

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22woman+who+stops+traffic%22

Brilliant.

Finally got my eyes on it. (Having relatives in the UK helps...).

Any chance in getting Kris to do the same thing in the US? Makes our "Bike to Work" days seem really paltry.

I must admit that I am really tired of being nearly run off of the road by the idiots. On one commute last week, I had three encounters with people swerving into me. In each case, they got stuck in traffic shortly down the road, and got an earful from me after I caught up. What really pleased me is that in each case there were bystanders who appeared to quickly take my side (not cursing or insulting the other driver goes a long way... I'm still working on calmer statements, but my current "Are you really trying to kill me?" is doing okay). /rant

Oh, and one additional problem I see in the US: The UK thoroughly gets the concept of "anti-social" behaviour. Unfortunately, in the US, "social" behaviour = communism.

Oh, and I stumbled across the links that Kris quotes in the story:

http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/display.var.1138789.0.leave_your_car_at_home_for_a_day.php
-or-
http://tinyurl.com/yoev3u

Oh, and I stumbled across the links that Kris quotes in the story:

http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/display.var.1138789.0.leave_your_car_at_home_for_a_day.php
-or-
http://tinyurl.com/yoev3u

If that's the story I think it is then :rolleyes: what part of work together don't these people...."Ho-hum here we go again"

I guess the lady from marlow has a point but it imho it's almost as bad as the "I'll drive less if there was less traffic" comments.

If you're not sure, the simple answer is to download a copy of your local legislation and read it. Don't take the word of a motorist or someone spouting on an Internet forum, or even a police officer (who is just as likely to be ignorant of the law as anybody else). Go straight to the source.

I know that in my state, there is no law prohibiting lane-splitting at all. In fact, it's perfectly legal even for car drivers if they manage to get into a situation where it actually becomes practical.

In the state vehicle codes that I've read, there are no specific laws about lane splitting. There are laws about driving within a single lane but those are there to prohibit a driver from occupying more than one lane. In true lane splitting, you aren't occupying a lane at all or you are occupying so little of a lane that it doesn't matter to whomever is already occupying that lane (you end up sharing a part of a lane with one motorist and part of another with another motorist).

I pass a lot more cars than that each day, but I generally keep a low profile about it. Just imagine what would happen if all of those people followed your lead, got out of their cars and started riding to work. Imagine what it would do to your commute, suddenly having to compete with 35-50 bikes for the space of the road that you currently occupy, while the 4-6 still on the road zoom by in the traffic lanes. That doesn't quite fit with my vision of a cycling utopia.

Personally, I'd be happy if they just stay in their cars and sit in the gridlock forever.

Umm... if they ALL got out of their cars and rode, then there would be no cars, we could use the entire road, and there would be a LOT less contention for space (a bike uses a LOT less space than a car!)

I fail to see the problem here!

For an example, last year during The Triple Bypass they started 3,500+ cyclists down a certain two lane, twisty mountain road all within two hours of each other... with no issues at all... now imagine trying to pipe that many cars down the same two lane road during the same amount of time!

Wow - episode 2 was grim. I'd assumed that the most resistance would be the same as last episode. That is, working class estate (housing projects I guess for a US comparison), market traders and local councillors. How wrong was I.

I'd still recommend you watch it as it kind of illustrates why the fattest town in the UK (the UK being the fattest country in Europe) is the fattest town in the UK. Unfortunately, it also illustrates why the fattest town in the UK (the UK being the fattest country in Europe) will remain the fattest town in the UK.

Wow again - just watched last nights episode about the city of Durham. All the facilities available and convenient (park and ride, good public transport, cycle lanes, pedestrian facilities, etc) but very few people actually used them. They preferred to sit in single occupant vehicles in bumper to bumper traffic.

Anyhoo, lots of pester power seemed to have changed a few key attitudes and word of mouth did the rest, i.e., get a few committed car users out of their cars and maybe the rest will follow. Definitely worth watching the whole series. Changing attitudes in a village and a city was possible but it seems the fattest town in uk (the UK being the fattest country in Europe) was the most apathetic.

STRONGLY recommend you folks get as many people as possible to watch the first and last parts of the series. Then get them to watch the episode on Boston, Lincolnshire, to show people what extreme apathy can do.

Umm... if they ALL got out of their cars and rode, then there would be no cars, we could use the entire road, and there would be a LOT less contention for space (a bike uses a LOT less space than a car!)

I fail to see the problem here!

Try commuting in the Netherlands for a while, or at least speak to someone who has. 99% of those who ride there report that it's not the cycling utopia that it's often made out to be by all those who have never been there. And having seen the skill level of the majority of adults on bicycles, specifically their handling ability, I wouldn't be expecting too much extra space to magically appear either.

In anycase, the entire point is moot. The OP was simply reinforcing the fact that we'll never see a situation where ALL people get out of their cars, or even a majority of them, so the question simply becomes one of whether you want to compete for your existing road space with another half-dozen or so cyclists each day.


In the state vehicle codes that I've read, there are no specific laws about lane splitting. There are laws about driving within a single lane but those are there to prohibit a driver from occupying more than one lane. In true lane splitting, you aren't occupying a lane at all or you are occupying so little of a lane that it doesn't matter to whomever is already occupying that lane (you end up sharing a part of a lane with one motorist and part of another with another motorist).

If nobody's legislated against it, I'm prepared to say that it's perfectly legal. If road authorities don't want people to do something, they're usually pretty quick to write laws against it. I will add that I have passed police cars while lane-splitting on many occasions and have never once been so much as questioned about it (not that they'd be able to catch me regardless). That's not a perfect indication, but it's something.

As far as the legislation that we currently have is concerned, there is no law requiring me to use any particular lane, or to refrain from overtaking cars (beyond allowing a "safe" distance). Hence when lane-splitting I can argue that I'm simply using the outside lane, because there is more space to overtake there, and consequently I'm doing so in order to allow a "safe" distance. I can't say how that argument would fare in front of a judge because I've never had a problem.

That said, I'm quite content for it to remain a "grey area" in my local legislation. I suspect if we asked for clarification, the result would most likely be a banning of the practice. Let's just enjoy our advantage quietly and not make a fuss, lest someone should get jealous and try to take it from us.

Traffic is still traffic, but you can fit something like 18 bikes into the space controlled by one car. That's a large capacity increase.

bump